Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gateraid]

In my attempt to stimulate conversation, what do you think they said after this classic scene



There's the obvious:

No, I'm serious, next year I'll get pregnant to someone whom I haven't told any of you about

Hahaha, Teyla, you're funny when you want to be (touches her arm)

I don't believe you, that sounds stupid

But...but....everyone knows who I am. Don't they??




Kidding, obviously I'm referring to the either/either scene. What do you think each pairing said after they split up? If we are to follow the logic of tv, everyone walked around in silence until the camera was on them

[Falcon Horus]

In my attempt to stimulate conversation, what do you think they said after this classic scene

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...eraid/78-1.jpg

I'll bite.

Kate proposed a joining of hands.

Really!? Congratulations!

[thinking] At last someone else who shows interest in the Athosian culture, other than me and ... mmm, she kinda looks nice in a uniform. Must take Lizzie out more.

Took her long enough.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! (well, it's afternoon here in Southern California, so there! ) Hope you're all enjoying this Screw The Angst Wednesday! I celebrated by going to Disneyland. In the rain. Am I insane? You betcha. But it was fun!

Is it too early to start squeeing? I didn't think so. Go check out the schedule for the Marseilles con. It looks like Joe and Torri will be on stage one time with Paul and once just the two of them. I expect some teasing from Paul might be in order. OMG! Sparkycon!!!!!

OMFG SQUEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, he did say he wanted to have a female boss as his love interest.

And you can't get any more specific than that. Joe, you sly devil, you.

I think they would have brought back either Nancy or Larrin. Frankly, I'm glad they're not doing a movie. (sorry, Joe!) I'm glad TPTW don't have any more opportunities to mess up the characters.

*shudders*

If I recall correctly, y'all will be there looking over my shoulder... virtually anyway. I'm taking my notebook along so I'll be able to hopefully (with the help of free Wifi that is) upload reports immediately after they happened.

Mark my words, I predict this thread will be the number one most viewed thread that entire weekend. We'll all be hanging on your every word, FH!

I'm with you. I was actually yelling at the poor guy during that interview. NO! NO MOVIE! And did I hear him say that the show got better over the years? I think he might be a bit slightly uninformed on fan reaction to that.

Either that, or he was having a little fun with us. Yeah, that's it.

I thought he was referring to the special effects, not the actual plots.

But really, what fan is going to tell Joe that we don't want a movie? Or that the show's quality declined? That's a little too honest for a fan to say. I know I'd never say that to Joe. Now, put me in a room with a PTW and I surely would.

I would. But I'd be a lot gentler with Joe than I would with TPTW.

Well yeah, it would take me at least an hour to say all I've been saving up. LOL I'd start by telling him just how large the Sparky nation is. That's become all too apparent with Sparktober. It's just amazing how many Sparky shippers there are on LJ who never come on GW. And I think most of them never watched S4-5. Not putting them together on screen was perhaps the #1 mistake TPTB made. If they gained new viewers as they claim in S4-5, just think how high the ratings would have been had they kept Elizabeth full time and given us more Sparky goodness.

Of course, it's probably fair to say that a lot of those "new viewers" merely replaced people who stopped watching after Season 3, and that the audience numbers really didn't grow all that much, if at all. I mean, if they had, one would think that they would've gotten Season 6 even with SGU waiting in the wings. Curiouser and curiouser...

After all, it was already so obvious to all the viewers with a brain, that we saw tons of people saying he was grieving for her. Otherwise, they wouldn't have thought that but would have attributed his gloomy attitude to something else.

But, looking on the bright side, at least we don't have to speculate on how different it would have been had a scene been a little different or certain canon facts not be true. We had clear video evidence of how much he cared about her. No one can ever erase those tears in his eyes or the way he looked every time she was mentioned.

Sparky is canon, baby. No one can take that away from us. Muahahahah.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I think they really dropped the ball in s4 by simply replacing Weir with Carter. With the benefit of hindsight, it's possible they'd have been able to keep Carter around for longer if they'd used AT more sparingly. And given how little we saw of Caldwell in s4/s5 (he got lost on the way back to the bridge during TLT), I don't think it would've been an issue to replace one with the other (or give her the Apollo, which would've been my preference). That infirmary scene (Lifeline) could've been the start of something in s4, even if it was 'minor'.

I think what they've failed to grasp is that they didn't have to write an over the top ship with sparky. Frankly they could have put them together at any point from s2 onwards and not much would've changed. I really wonder whether their reluctance to do anything (with ship in general) stems from Sam/Jack, of which they made a complete hash with re timing. And to be fair with that, the timing aspect of it comes from the fact that the series kept getting extended. And re-extended.

You know... that wouldn't surprise me one darn bit.

I'll bite.

Kate proposed a joining of hands.

Really!? Congratulations!

[thinking] At last someone else who shows interest in the Athosian culture, other than me and ... mmm, she kinda looks nice in a uniform. Must take Lizzie out more.

Took her long enough.

[JT-2]

In my attempt to stimulate conversation, what do you think they said after this classic scene

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...eraid/78-1.jpg

How about we split the difference?

Kate and I have decided to include Ronon in our relationship. We think he will add much to our lives, and perhaps get me pregnant next year.

Oh, that's so exciting.

[thinking] I wonder if Elizabeth would want another woman with us.... 2 women... at the same time.

[thinking] I know what you're thinking, Sheppard. Only I'm man enough to handle 2 women.


What they talked about after the scene cut:

Ok, let's talk about a movie until the director moves on and then we'll find an empty bedroom.
I like the way you think, Colonel.

[Wraith queen, thinking] He is quite attractive. I was going to feed on him, but he is too good looking.
[thinking] I wonder if Teyla wants to explore any bedrooms?

[JT-2]

I'm still giggling at Falcon using the phrase "y'all".

Well yeah, it would take me at least an hour to say all I've been saving up. LOL I'd start by telling him just how large the Sparky nation is. That's become all too apparent with Sparktober. It's just amazing how many Sparky shippers there are on LJ who never come on GW. And I think most of them never watched S4-5. Not putting them together on screen was perhaps the #1 mistake TPTB made. If they gained new viewers as they claim in S4-5, just think how high the ratings would have been had they kept Elizabeth full time and given us more Sparky goodness. After all, it was already so obvious to all the viewers with a brain, that we saw tons of people saying he was grieving for her. Otherwise, they wouldn't have thought that but would have attributed his gloomy attitude to something else.

Spoiler:

What they always neglect to mention in that "new viewers" bit is that the number of TV viewers overall went up. Let's give an analogy. There's a classroom with 20 kids. 2 of those kids like carrots. The classroom increases by 10 kids. Now there's 3 kids who like carrots. So, "the number of carrot lovers increased!" - certain folks would say. Well, yes, but it's still the same percentage of kids who like carrots. And don't get me started on the DVR+48343 crap. Comparing apples and apples, not apples and oranges, the ratings did not shoot up. Hmmm, now I feel hungry.

I've also seen a huge number of people who left after S4. Myself, I watched S1-3 plus the Elizabeth S4/5 episodes at first. I didn't watch any of the rest of it until I got the DVDs on sale for $13/season.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I think they really dropped the ball in s4 by simply replacing Weir with Carter. With the benefit of hindsight, it's possible they'd have been able to keep Carter around for longer if they'd used AT more sparingly. And given how little we saw of Caldwell in s4/s5 (he got lost on the way back to the bridge during TLT), I don't think it would've been an issue to replace one with the other (or give her the Apollo, which would've been my preference). That infirmary scene (Lifeline) could've been the start of something in s4, even if it was 'minor'.

I think what they've failed to grasp is that they didn't have to write an over the top ship with sparky. Frankly they could have put them together at any point from s2 onwards and not much would've changed. I really wonder whether their reluctance to do anything (with ship in general) stems from Sam/Jack, of which they made a complete hash with re timing. And to be fair with that, the timing aspect of it comes from the fact that the series kept getting extended. And re-extended.

Yes, I think they could have had the best of both worlds if they'd had both Carter and Weir at the same time. But they weren't thinking clearly (20 something as CMO?).

Gotta be truthful that I think there would have been some issues with a Sparky hook-up while she was still his boss. Some heavy duty explaining away would have to be done for that to work, IMHO. Now, if they'd brought back Elizabeth in late season 4 or season 5 as a diplomat......

Good afternoon, Sparkies! (well, it's afternoon here in Southern California, so there! ) Hope you're all enjoying this Screw The Angst Wednesday! I celebrated by going to Disneyland. In the rain. Am I insane? You betcha. But it was fun!

Disneyland in the rain? Cool!! I sent to Disneyworld in the rain once. There was a sea of yellow Mickey ponchos.

[Southern Red]

In my attempt to stimulate conversation, what do you think they said after this classic scene

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...eraid/78-1.jpg

There's the obvious:

No, I'm serious, next year I'll get pregnant to someone whom I haven't told any of you about

Hahaha, Teyla, you're funny when you want to be (touches her arm)

I don't believe you, that sounds stupid

But...but....everyone knows who I am. Don't they??




Kidding, obviously I'm referring to the either/either scene. What do you think each pairing said after they split up? If we are to follow the logic of tv, everyone walked around in silence until the camera was on them

And the not so obvious.

It is amusing, is it not. They think we do not know.
*chuckles* Wonder what they're doing right now?

So, um...ah...Elizabeth? How long before you think they'll miss us?
Well, it is pretty dark in these corridors...and there's nobody around.
*big grin*

I'm still giggling at Falcon using the phrase "y'all".

Spoiler:

What they always neglect to mention in that "new viewers" bit is that the number of TV viewers overall went up. Let's give an analogy. There's a classroom with 20 kids. 2 of those kids like carrots. The classroom increases by 10 kids. Now there's 3 kids who like carrots. So, "the number of carrot lovers increased!" - certain folks would say. Well, yes, but it's still the same percentage of kids who like carrots. And don't get me started on the DVR+48343 crap. Comparing apples and apples, not apples and oranges, the ratings did not shoot up. Hmmm, now I feel hungry.

I've also seen a huge number of people who left after S4. Myself, I watched S1-3 plus the Elizabeth S4/5 episodes at first. I didn't watch any of the rest of it until I got the DVDs on sale for $13/season.



Yes, I think they could have had the best of both worlds if they'd had both Carter and Weir at the same time. But they weren't thinking clearly (20 something as CMO?).

Gotta be truthful that I think there would have been some issues with a Sparky hook-up while she was still his boss. Some heavy duty explaining away would have to be done for that to work, IMHO. Now, if they'd brought back Elizabeth in late season 4 or season 5 as a diplomat......



Disneyland in the rain? Cool!! I sent to Disneyworld in the rain once. There was a sea of yellow Mickey ponchos.

Your analogy of the ratings reminds me of something in The Washington Post today

Spoiler:

that attempted to explain how the top income levels don't really pay the vast majority of the taxes. Their graph would have earned a failing grade in any economics class on the planet. But they did prove that you can manipulate the data to prove almost anything.

Carter and Weir together would have been great. But then they would have been forced to write Carter as Carter and not Weirlite. I'm feeling a bit cranky tonight. Please forgive the sarcasm. It's so unusual for me I know it's a bit shocking.

[JT-2]

Your analogy of the ratings reminds me of something in The Washington Post today

Spoiler:

that attempted to explain how the top income levels don't really pay the vast majority of the taxes. Their graph would have earned a failing grade in any economics class on the planet. But they did prove that you can manipulate the data to prove almost anything.

Carter and Weir together would have been great. But then they would have been forced to write Carter as Carter and not Weirlite. I'm feeling a bit cranky tonight. Please forgive the sarcasm. It's so unusual for me I know it's a bit shocking.

Ok, I'm back. No, wait.



That Washington Post graph is frakking hilarious!! But yes, you can manipulate the data to mean anything. When I took a statistics class in college, one of the first things he taught us was to show how you can manipulate data to say any damn thing you want.

And yes, Carter was Weirlite. I noticed that many times on my rewatch. Many of her interactions with John were the same as what he would have done with Elizabeth. [...and I'm modding myself ]

[Scary Kitty]

Yes, I think they could have had the best of both worlds if they'd had both Carter and Weir at the same time. But they weren't thinking clearly (20 something as CMO?).

Gotta be truthful that I think there would have been some issues with a Sparky hook-up while she was still his boss. Some heavy duty explaining away would have to be done for that to work, IMHO. Now, if they'd brought back Elizabeth in late season 4 or season 5 as a diplomat......

Oh, there definitely would have been issues, and rightly so. Regs is regs, after all.

But yeah, if they had done all the character shifting with the eventual intention to reset Elizabeth's position in some sort of diplomatic capacity where she wasn't John's boss, for the purpose of getting Elizabeth and John together... Sheer genius. Sadly, it seems only we fans are smart enough to figure that out.

Disneyland in the rain? Cool!! I sent to Disneyworld in the rain once. There was a sea of yellow Mickey ponchos.

Hah! There was indeed a sea of clear plastic ponchos with a generic "Disney Parks" logo on them.

Carter and Weir together would have been great. But then they would have been forced to write Carter as Carter and not Weirlite. I'm feeling a bit cranky tonight. Please forgive the sarcasm. It's so unusual for me I know it's a bit shocking.

Sarcasm? Wait, I thought that was just the truth.

And yes, Carter was Weirlite. I noticed that many times on my rewatch. Many of her interactions with John were the same as what he would have done with Elizabeth. [...and I'm modding myself ]

Many, but not all. He never sat on that desk again. Or looked over Carter's shoulder at what was on her laptop, or, or...

[JT-2]

Many, but not all. He never sat on that desk again. Or looked over Carter's shoulder at what was on her laptop, or, or...

And therein lies the difference of opinion in why some loved Sam/John interaction but hated Elizabeth/John interaction, despite the fact that John really hates Elizabeth and stiffens up when she comes near him.

Damn, I stopped myself from saying that the first time. Must be time for me to go to bed.

Night Sparkies!!

[Scary Kitty]

And therein lies the difference of opinion in why some loved Sam/John interaction but hated Elizabeth/John interaction, despite the fact that John really hates Elizabeth and stiffens up when she comes near him.

Damn, I stopped myself from saying that the first time. Must be time for me to go to bed.

Night Sparkies!!

Bwahahahah! I could hear your sarcasm from clear across the country!

[gateraid]

You know... that wouldn't surprise me one darn bit.

I'm not saying it was a big reason, but it may have been in the back of their minds. We'll never know.

I'm still giggling at Falcon using the phrase "y'all".

Spoiler:

What they always neglect to mention in that "new viewers" bit is that the number of TV viewers overall went up. Let's give an analogy. There's a classroom with 20 kids. 2 of those kids like carrots. The classroom increases by 10 kids. Now there's 3 kids who like carrots. So, "the number of carrot lovers increased!" - certain folks would say. Well, yes, but it's still the same percentage of kids who like carrots. And don't get me started on the DVR+48343 crap. Comparing apples and apples, not apples and oranges, the ratings did not shoot up. Hmmm, now I feel hungry.

I've also seen a huge number of people who left after S4. Myself, I watched S1-3 plus the Elizabeth S4/5 episodes at first. I didn't watch any of the rest of it until I got the DVDs on sale for $13/season.

I don't count because I'm an overseas viewer, but I never watched any of SGA live. The first three seasons I bought, s4 I rented, and then I bought s5. That said, I waited til they were cheaper

Yes, I think they could have had the best of both worlds if they'd had both Carter and Weir at the same time. But they weren't thinking clearly (20 something as CMO?).

They commented once that they didn't know what to do with Carter during the final seasons of SG-1, turns out they didn't know what to do with her on SGA either And given that they allegedly didn't realise the end result of Sunday would be Carson's death, it's hardly surprising they didn't put much thought into the new COM's age.

Gotta be truthful that I think there would have been some issues with a Sparky hook-up while she was still his boss. Some heavy duty explaining away would have to be done for that to work, IMHO. Now, if they'd brought back Elizabeth in late season 4 or season 5 as a diplomat......

Oh, no, I was just meaning that if at some point it was announced they were married, then the scenes/dialogue that they did have wouldn't have needed to be changed much, if at all. But yes, actually getting married would've created a few headaches.

And the not so obvious.

It is amusing, is it not. They think we do not know.
*chuckles* Wonder what they're doing right now?

So, um...ah...Elizabeth? How long before you think they'll miss us?
Well, it is pretty dark in these corridors...and there's nobody around.
*big grin*



Your analogy of the ratings reminds me of something in The Washington Post today

Spoiler:

that attempted to explain how the top income levels don't really pay the vast majority of the taxes. Their graph would have earned a failing grade in any economics class on the planet. But they did prove that you can manipulate the data to prove almost anything.

Carter and Weir together would have been great. But then they would have been forced to write Carter as Carter and not Weirlite. I'm feeling a bit cranky tonight. Please forgive the sarcasm. It's so unusual for me I know it's a bit shocking.

I don't know why everyone keeps calling me Weir-lite. These are at least a cup size bigger that hers

:lorne: I couldn't possibly comment on that, Ma'am.

Oh, there definitely would have been issues, and rightly so. Regs is regs, after all.

But yeah, if they had done all the character shifting with the eventual intention to reset Elizabeth's position in some sort of diplomatic capacity where she wasn't John's boss, for the purpose of getting Elizabeth and John together... Sheer genius. Sadly, it seems only we fans are smart enough to figure that out.

I guess, to be fair to them, that would've interfered with the way they wrote the show. It would've required a character arc, which is a problem if you/they wanted people to be able to tune in to any episode and be immediately caught up.

[mandogater]

Anybody free to beta a new Sparky ficlet I'm playing with? I'm not as happy with this one and could really use someone else's input.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Anybody free to beta a new Sparky ficlet I'm playing with? I'm not as happy with this one and could really use someone else's input.

sure, i'll beta for ya. i just finished revising my essay for an english course i'm taking. so whenever you want me to beta, just PM me.

[Southern Red]

And therein lies the difference of opinion in why some loved Sam/John interaction but hated Elizabeth/John interaction, despite the fact that John really hates Elizabeth and stiffens up when she comes near him.

Damn, I stopped myself from saying that the first time. Must be time for me to go to bed.

Night Sparkies!!

And I thought I was sarcastic. I bow to the new queen. Those who loved the Sam/John interactions but hated John/Elizabeth probably just hated Elizabeth. That's simple logic. But some of the analysis that supposedly proves Sam and John were friends is a bit flawed. She was his superior. They only worked together for a few months. He respected her as a commanding officer. There was nothing personal to it. Plus, she was kind regarding Elizabeth and treated him like a grieving husband. I think, considering her own situation, Sam saw right through to John's heart and had a soft spot for him because of it.

I'm not saying it was a big reason, but it may have been in the back of their minds. We'll never know.



I don't count because I'm an overseas viewer, but I never watched any of SGA live. The first three seasons I bought, s4 I rented, and then I bought s5. That said, I waited til they were cheaper



They commented once that they didn't know what to do with Carter during the final seasons of SG-1, turns out they didn't know what to do with her on SGA either And given that they allegedly didn't realise the end result of Sunday would be Carson's death, it's hardly surprising they didn't put much thought into the new COM's age.



Oh, no, I was just meaning that if at some point it was announced they were married, then the scenes/dialogue that they did have wouldn't have needed to be changed much, if at all. But yes, actually getting married would've created a few headaches.



http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...ateraid/90.jpg

I don't know why everyone keeps calling me Weir-lite. These are at least a cup size bigger that hers

:lorne: I couldn't possibly comment on that, Ma'am.


I guess, to be fair to them, that would've interfered with the way they wrote the show. It would've required a character arc, which is a problem if you/they wanted people to be able to tune in to any episode and be immediately caught up.

True, but that argument doesn't hold up overall. Look at Teyla's pregnancy and McKeller. A viewer can now look at episodes shown out of order and wonder about both of those. So, they were inconsistent. Sparky would have created a lot less disturbance than the pregnancy for sure.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday and Happy Birthday to me!

And I thought I was sarcastic. I bow to the new queen. Those who loved the Sam/John interactions but hated John/Elizabeth probably just hated Elizabeth. That's simple logic. But some of the analysis that supposedly proves Sam and John were friends is a bit flawed. She was his superior. They only worked together for a few months. He respected her as a commanding officer. There was nothing personal to it. Plus, she was kind regarding Elizabeth and treated him like a grieving husband. I think, considering her own situation, Sam saw right through to John's heart and had a soft spot for him because of it.

Hmm, I always saw Carter's reactions regarding everyone else's feelings about Elizabeth as being somewhat stilted. She never mentioned Elizabeth, not even indirectly, in her 'hi, I'm your new boss!' speech in Reunion, and I found her little comment about John thinking more diplomatically because he was in Weir's old office seemed more of a backhanded slap at Weir than anything else. Of course, that may just be the lingering afterimage of how Carter jerked Weir around on SG-1 that's talking.

True, but that argument doesn't hold up overall. Look at Teyla's pregnancy and McKeller. A viewer can now look at episodes shown out of order and wonder about both of those. So, they were inconsistent. Sparky would have created a lot less disturbance than the pregnancy for sure.

Agreed, and I think it's especially true of McKeller, which wasn't affected by behind-the-scenes real life events as the pregnancy subplot was. They didn't really have much choice on the latter, so I give them a bit of slack on it. I still don't excuse them on the poor storytelling throughout that arc, though.