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**JT-2** · 10 July 2011, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

MUAHAHAHAH!

I've been thinking of various ways they could get together in your story. There's the cliche of one or both of them being in danger. Yes, it's a cliche but it works (think Castle or Empire Strikes Back). But then I'm thinking of it just coming about naturally, like:

Spoiler:

ps. Restless leg syndrome sucks! 5 Tylenol PM and I still can't sleep. I'm gonna be such a zombie at work later! If this post sounds like a weirdo freak wrote it, it's due to that fact. I probably should not be posting anything in this state, but it takes my mind off my legs for awhile. Note to self - whump characters, not self.

**Southern Red** · 11 July 2011, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

Ok so I have a question for you all. If they were going to make Sparky canon within the context of the show (yeah, I know, that would never have happened - just a 'what if'), how would you have done it? Let's also assume it wouldn't be TPTW writing it because we all know they can't write good ship.

I don't think they could have done it while she was still his boss, even though I don't have any issues reading fic with that in it. But in canon, I don't think it would work (just IMHO) because the IOA would have a fit.

However, if they'd brought her back after BAMSR as a diplomat/translator type person, then they could have gone through with it I think. Or they could wait 'til the last episode as some shows tend to do.

How would you have wanted the ship portrayed? Would you want to see one kiss? What would you want to see?

If this has been discussed already, please ignore me.

*cracks knuckles, flexes fingers* I love questions like this.

Now, it depends on your definition of canon. The most common meaning is "what has been actually shown on screen", e.g. McKeller is canon because we have seen them in romantic situations. If, in Sparky's case, we had an episode in which they were alone in the moonlight with romantic music playing and they looked into each other's eyes and made remarks that suggested they had feelings beyond friendship, 75% of fans would never buy it. So, there would have to be at least a kiss. And even then, that pesky 10% would say it didn't mean anything, he kissed lots of women. So, canon would have to be decisive.

Saying all that, she should definitely not be his boss. I would have liked it if they brought her back after Lifeline. Say, instead of Tabala Rasa, we have an episode in which they rescue her. She would be "fixed" in some way and allowed to stay as a translator/diplomat. I'd love to see how she would have dealt with Carter having her old job and later, Woolsey. A slow progression of UST until we all scream, and then the kiss somewhere in S5. No sex though and it wouldn't have to get mushy or dominate in any way. They're just quietly together.

**Eri13** · 11 July 2011, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

Ok so I have a question for you all. If they were going to make Sparky canon within the context of the show (yeah, I know, that would never have happened - just a 'what if'), how would you have done it? Let's also assume it wouldn't be TPTW writing it because we all know they can't write good ship.

I don't think they could have done it while she was still his boss, even though I don't have any issues reading fic with that in it. But in canon, I don't think it would work (just IMHO) because the IOA would have a fit.

However, if they'd brought her back after BAMSR as a diplomat/translator type person, then they could have gone through with it I think. Or they could wait 'til the last episode as some shows tend to do.

How would you have wanted the ship portrayed? Would you want to see one kiss? What would you want to see?

If this has been discussed already, please ignore me.

Ooo, hee!

Short and sweet answer--I miss days of long discussion *sigh*. I would have had the UST done much like it was done, but the turning point would have been TRW for John, when it sort of hit him how much she meant to him. Nothing much--but The Return would have been a bit more on the dramatic side with the goodbye, and the convo with Rodney less nonchalant (actually romantic or not it should have overall been nonchalant! >8DD).

Everything after that would have had at least one John/Liz scene with some tension and, of course, the heavy drama of FS/A/LL. Comforting scenes perhaps in ToR and Sunday.

When FS/A/LL hits, then perhaps we get to the point where her LL sacrifice is for him, to keep him safe, and we get some choice words from her. Much more angst. TMC highlights his true broken heart over what happened to her, and clone!Liz reveals to him that she cared for him too, which just makes it all the more painful.

You know, to be honest mine doesn't differ too much from the show itself thanks to Joe and his Woobie face. Of course, if there had been romance I hope the storylines would have shifted better so we didn't end up with GITM but rather, as SR suggests, her returning back and them trying to work in relationship with work.

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

You know you've made it when.......

Spoiler:

Oh, my poor story.

**mandogater** · 11 July 2011, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

I've been thinking of various ways they could get together in your story. There's the cliche of one or both of them being in danger. Yes, it's a cliche but it works (think Castle or Empire Strikes Back). But then I'm thinking of it just coming about naturally, like:

Spoiler:

ps. Restless leg syndrome sucks! 5 Tylenol PM and I still can't sleep. I'm gonna be such a zombie at work later! If this post sounds like a weirdo freak wrote it, it's due to that fact. I probably should not be posting anything in this state, but it takes my mind off my legs for awhile. Note to self - whump characters, not self.

It like your idea. To me it just fits them, but when it comes to relationships my reading of them is normally so far out in left field I'm ussually playing in another stadium.

**Lt.Colonel John Sheppard** · 11 July 2011, 12:16 PM

Space Shuttle Atlantis OT

Spoiler:

i've been so preoccupied with the thought of finding a job and other stuff this summer that i haven't been paying attention to the news. Somebody wanna take pity and throw me a bone?

**Scary Kitty** · 11 July 2011, 12:19 PM

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

And it's another warm and sticky day here in SoCal. Blech.

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

I've been thinking of various ways they could get together in your story. There's the cliche of one or both of them being in danger. Yes, it's a cliche but it works (think Castle or Empire Strikes Back). But then I'm thinking of it just coming about naturally, like:

Spoiler:

Awwwwww! I love that! I don't know if it'll happen quite that way in Atlantis Rising, but it's going to be a while before we get to that point. Who knows?

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

ps. Restless leg syndrome sucks! 5 Tylenol PM and I still can't sleep. I'm gonna be such a zombie at work later! If this post sounds like a weirdo freak wrote it, it's due to that fact. I probably should not be posting anything in this state, but it takes my mind off my legs for awhile. Note to self - whump characters, not self.

Eeek! That doesn't sound good.

**Lt.Colonel John Sheppard** · 11 July 2011, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

And it's another warm and sticky day here in SoCal. Blech.

i'm not going to touch that comment with a 10 foot pole but good afternoon.

**Southern Red** · 11 July 2011, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post

Space Shuttle Atlantis OT

Spoiler:

i've been so preoccupied with the thought of finding a job and other stuff this summer that i haven't been paying attention to the news. Somebody wanna take pity and throw me a bone?

What do you mean "why"? We can no longer afford it. Our country is broke.

**Lt.Colonel John Sheppard** · 11 July 2011, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

What do you mean "why"? We can no longer afford it. Our country is broke.

well i had a feeling that was the case i just wanted to make sure before assuming things.

**ShipperWriter** · 11 July 2011, 05:16 PM

Hey -- look what I found:

Chapter 17 of "Of Detectives and Doctors" just got posted.

Fancy that.

**gateraid** · 12 July 2011, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by JT-2 View Post

I've been thinking of various ways they could get together in your story. There's the cliche of one or both of them being in danger. Yes, it's a cliche but it works (think Castle or Empire Strikes Back). But then I'm thinking of it just coming about naturally, like:

Spoiler:

ps. Restless leg syndrome sucks! 5 Tylenol PM and I still can't sleep. I'm gonna be such a zombie at work later! If this post sounds like a weirdo freak wrote it, it's due to that fact. I probably should not be posting anything in this state, but it takes my mind off my legs for awhile. Note to self - whump characters, not self.

IDK, I've read variations of that scenario before. There's nothing wrong with it per se - that's why it's so popular - but it always strikes me as a very fanfiction scenario, rather than something that would be seen on the show. I always like it when I read it, but every time I think "unlikely scenario, and mildly out of character". That said, I can't think of another way that wouldn't suffer from those same criticisms. I mean, if the answer to "are you defending my honour" had been yes, then that could still have been a little OCC (the response) from a really good setup.

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

*cracks knuckles, flexes fingers* I love questions like this.

Now, it depends on your definition of canon. The most common meaning is "what has been actually shown on screen", e.g. McKeller is canon because we have seen them in romantic situations. If, in Sparky's case, we had an episode in which they were alone in the moonlight with romantic music playing and they looked into each other's eyes and made remarks that suggested they had feelings beyond friendship, 75% of fans would never buy it. So, there would have to be at least a kiss. And even then, that pesky 10% would say it didn't mean anything, he kissed lots of women. So, canon would have to be decisive.

Saying all that, she should definitely not be his boss. I would have liked it if they brought her back after Lifeline. Say, instead of Tabala Rasa, we have an episode in which they rescue her. She would be "fixed" in some way and allowed to stay as a translator/diplomat. I'd love to see how she would have dealt with Carter having her old job and later, Woolsey. A slow progression of UST until we all scream, and then the kiss somewhere in S5. No sex though and it wouldn't have to get mushy or dominate in any way. They're just quietly together.

After watching BSG, I wouldn't have had an issue with the boss thing, with the caveat of how it was written, naturally. But then, I wouldn't have held that up as an excuse for him and Teyla not getting together either *shrugs* I'm not saying a Shep/Weir or Shep/Teyla working relationship wouldn't have had its issues, but a good relationship will overcome those.

If it went ahead on the show, I'd have preferred they held off until the end. Maybe I'm too untrusting regarding how it would've turned out.

**Southern Red** · 12 July 2011, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

Hey -- look what I found:

Chapter 17 of "Of Detectives and Doctors" just got posted.

Fancy that.

Yay! *bookmarks for later*

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

IDK, I've read variations of that scenario before. There's nothing wrong with it per se - that's why it's so popular - but it always strikes me as a very fanfiction scenario, rather than something that would be seen on the show. I always like it when I read it, but every time I think "unlikely scenario, and mildly out of character". That said, I can't think of another way that wouldn't suffer from those same criticisms. I mean, if the answer to "are you defending my honour" had been yes, then that could still have been a little OCC (the response) from a really good setup.

After watching BSG, I wouldn't have had an issue with the boss thing, with the caveat of how it was written, naturally. But then, I wouldn't have held that up as an excuse for him and Teyla not getting together either *shrugs* I'm not saying a Shep/Weir or Shep/Teyla working relationship wouldn't have had its issues, but a good relationship will overcome those.

If it went ahead on the show, I'd have preferred they held off until the end. Maybe I'm too untrusting regarding how it would've turned out.

We were all untrusting. That's why we had to write so much fanfic. I'm of the mind that anything John did toward getting them together would have been OOC, or at least would have been claimed to be by legions of fans. Thinking objectively and making myself forget all the fanfic I've read, I can't come up with one truly believable scene where John makes the first move. Or she does, for that matter. I can actually see him telling her he missed her and then waiting to see how she reacts because of the scene in TMC when he was trying to persuade her to stay. Look at how he looks at her there and how sad and uncertain he is.

Spoiler:

And then we get down to GitM and he's still asking Woolsey if "one of them" can stay. He just wanted things to be back like they were. I think getting them to admit their feelings would have required a catastrophic event like her life being in danger. Much like the rash thing he did in TRW. Once things were back to normal after that, they just went back to the old relationship. Good writers would have had her react to the fact that he did what he did, but as it stood it just made her seem a bit clueless. These writers could not have done it right. So I'm glad they didn't try.

**ShipperWriter** · 12 July 2011, 11:50 AM

Funny story about the whole Sheyla VS Shweir debate that we all seem to get into --

When I watched "Enterprise", a lot of fanfic writers started a "Fix the Finale" ficathon (because they killed off Trip and pissed off a lot of fans. 'Specially the females.

) Well, I started writing "Everybody's Fine", which is my "Fix the Finale of SGA" story, and one person left me a review saying, "Normally I'm not a Shweir fan, as I just don't see the connection. I prefer Sheyla, myself. But you've written it very well."

Spoiler:

*goes back to posting missing cat signs*

Oh, yeah. AND my cat got out of our new house Saturday night. So I'm posting missing signs. *criez*

**Scary Kitty** · 12 July 2011, 12:58 PM

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

Hey -- look what I found:

Chapter 17 of "Of Detectives and Doctors" just got posted.

Fancy that.

Squee! Must read that later... I've been putting off reading any new fic (except for the beta reading I'm doing for SGA Rising) due to the continuing computer problems. What a drag.

In other news, I hope you find your cat! *wibbles and starts putting out catnip to attract the wayward kitty*

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

We were all untrusting. That's why we had to write so much fanfic. I'm of the mind that anything John did toward getting them together would have been OOC, or at least would have been claimed to be by legions of fans. Thinking objectively and making myself forget all the fanfic I've read, I can't come up with one truly believable scene where John makes the first move. Or she does, for that matter. I can actually see him telling her he missed her and then waiting to see how she reacts because of the scene in TMC when he was trying to persuade her to stay. Look at how he looks at her there and how sad and uncertain he is.

Spoiler:

And then we get down to GitM and he's still asking Woolsey if "one of them" can stay. He just wanted things to be back like they were. I think getting them to admit their feelings would have required a catastrophic event like her life being in danger. Much like the rash thing he did in TRW. Once things were back to normal after that, they just went back to the old relationship. Good writers would have had her react to the fact that he did what he did, but as it stood it just made her seem a bit clueless. These writers could not have done it right. So I'm glad they didn't try.

I think you nailed it on the head. It seems like John had found a comfort zone for himself in those first three years in Atlantis. Then they lost Carson and Elizabeth, and so many things changed (and not for the better). John just wanted things to be the way they used to be. There's a sense of safety and security in being around familiar people and places. At the most basic of levels, John simply wants to feel safe, and he feels safe with Elizabeth.

So when (not if, but when) Elizabeth comes home to Atlantis and to John... On the one hand, I can see him wanting to tell her how he feels because he's lived life without her and he doesn't want to waste any more time (the 'carpe diem' theory). On the other hand, I can also see him wanting to recreate the comfort zone he remembers, which leaves them circling each other as they did before, at least until something happens that forces their hands. I can see either scenario happen.

**ShipperWriter** · 12 July 2011, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Yay! *bookmarks for later*

We were all untrusting. That's why we had to write so much fanfic. I'm of the mind that anything John did toward getting them together would have been OOC, or at least would have been claimed to be by legions of fans. Thinking objectively and making myself forget all the fanfic I've read, I can't come up with one truly believable scene where John makes the first move. Or she does, for that matter. I can actually see him telling her he missed her and then waiting to see how she reacts because of the scene in TMC when he was trying to persuade her to stay. Look at how he looks at her there and how sad and uncertain he is.

Spoiler:

And then we get down to GitM and he's still asking Woolsey if "one of them" can stay. He just wanted things to be back like they were. I think getting them to admit their feelings would have required a catastrophic event like her life being in danger. Much like the rash thing he did in TRW. Once things were back to normal after that, they just went back to the old relationship. Good writers would have had her react to the fact that he did what he did, but as it stood it just made her seem a bit clueless. These writers could not have done it right. So I'm glad they didn't try.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Squee! Must read that later... I've been putting off reading any new fic (except for the beta reading I'm doing for SGA Rising) due to the continuing computer problems. What a drag.

In other news, I hope you find your cat! *wibbles and starts putting out catnip to attract the wayward kitty*

I think you nailed it on the head. It seems like John had found a comfort zone for himself in those first three years in Atlantis. Then they lost Carson and Elizabeth, and so many things changed (and not for the better). John just wanted things to be the way they used to be. There's a sense of safety and security in being around familiar people and places. At the most basic of levels, John simply wants to feel safe, and he feels safe with Elizabeth.

So when (not if, but when) Elizabeth comes home to Atlantis and to John... On the one hand, I can see him wanting to tell her how he feels because he's lived life without her and he doesn't want to waste any more time (the 'carpe diem' theory). On the other hand, I can also see him wanting to recreate the comfort zone he remembers, which leaves them circling each other as they did before, at least until something happens that forces their hands. I can see either scenario happen.

I agree completely as well. After the chaotic life that John has had, everything finally settled down for him. Then it was horribly changed in just a matter of days. Not to th point of PTSD, as we've discussed with 'Nuna before, but a major change like that is unsettling. It doesn't matter if you're a Marine or a school girl. You might hide the feelings better, but your life is still turned upside down. It takes a while to adjust.

Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who cherishes their "comfort zone", it takes me a while to adjust when something goes out of whack, and I try to fill in the void with other things, like getting new hobbies or becoming obsessed with a new fandom. You need something to make you feel whole again, and if you can get back the comfort that you lost, even better.

It doesn't even have to be a romantic loss between them. Elizabeth was the rock that made John's world steady for three years, and to lose it just like that? I'd take a while to bounce back.

Just sayin'.

And when I find my cat, I'll let y'all know!!!

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