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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Oh nuts, we've just had a hold.
    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

    Comment


      Hold cleared! Countdown is back on!
      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

      Comment


        Liftoff!
        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

        Comment


          Godspeed, Atlantis! Have a great journey and a successful mission!
          (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
          Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

          Comment


            Got back with 2 minutes to spare, just in time to watch Shepard Smith and the launch of the shuttle Atlantis. Something ironic in that, I think. I also just got an email from my college roommate, all nostalgic about how we've been following the space program all our lives. I admit to getting a bit misty myself.
            sigpic

            Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              Got back with 2 minutes to spare, just in time to watch Shepard Smith and the launch of the shuttle Atlantis. Something ironic in that, I think. I also just got an email from my college roommate, all nostalgic about how we've been following the space program all our lives. I admit to getting a bit misty myself.
              Hee! Ironic, indeed!

              Yeah, things are going to be a lot different from now on. The shuttles are the only US space program I've ever known, so I'm feeling a little nostalgic today.
              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

              Comment


                Hello all! Long time....*eases cautiously out of lurkdom*

                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                tomorrow's launch of the space shuttle Atlantis is still on schedule for 11:26 am Eastern Time. Anyone going to be tuning in to watch it?
                I was planning to, but missed it by about half an hour. But even the replays were a bit emotional for me. *don't laugh* Wow - last one ever. *sad face*

                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                See, that was what had me convinced it was going to be Sheppard and Weir when I first started watching the show. All the typical 'slow burn' roadsigns were there for them. It just seemed so obvious to me. Tropes become well known for being tropes because they work when done right. Sheppard and Weir were doing it right. TPTW set themselves up for failure when they failed to follow the cardinal rule of going where the chemistry was. Their loss. Of course, they probably would've screwed it up anyway.
                Originally posted by JT-2 View Post
                As much as I love the ideas of Teyla/Carson and Teyla/Kate, TBH the ships that are obvious to me are J/E and Teyla/Ronon. Of course everyone sees things differently. In terms of screentime, though, I think it's safe to say that S1 - S3 had the most interpersonal scenes in this order:

                1. Rodney & John
                2. John & Elizabeth
                3. Teyla & Ronon

                Therefore, the shipping of those 3 groups seems very obvious to me.
                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                I'm like you, I watched from the beginning. I fell in love with Joe/Shep when I saw the commercial with him and Amanda before the show even started. So, it was all downhill from there. Being a hopeless romantic, I couldn't wait to see what ship they had cooked up for him. When I saw in The Rising that it was intended to be Teyla, I accepted it but knew I would never like it. Then I remember starting to notice all the little things with Elizabeth and wondering what was up. By 38 Min I was a total Sparky shipper and never looked back.
                Thought I'd weigh in on this discussion. I've shared with many of you, of course, my own experience - I thought it was supposed to be Elizabeth from the beginning (although I didn't actually start shipping them until Adrift). It truly never occurred to me that it was Teyla. I've discussed this with people on other threads, and in the past I've always contended that I went into the show without any bias or preconceived ideas about who was supposed to be shipped with who. But more recently I've realized......that's not actually true. There was one fairly major reason, not consciously but subconsciously, that I think is why I never even considered Teyla as a possibility. And that is that Elizabeth is the lead female character.

                In my (admittedly noncomprehensive) experience with tv shows, male lead/female lead shipping is by far the norm, and if the male lead isn't paired with the female lead (assuming there is one), he's usually paired with one or a series of recurring characters. Male lead character/female supporting character shipping is rather rare, in my experience anyway, not nonexistent but not common either. In retrospect, I think this is why I always assumed it was going to be John/Elizabeth from the very beginning, and everything I saw on the show for the first two-two and a half seasons at least bore that out, in my mind anyway. It seemed to be that same type of "not-shipping" shipping they did with Jack and Sam on the first three seasons of SG-1....tease, but no actual ship. But I assumed they would go there eventually. And as others have pointed out, a lot of what they did with John and Elizabeth DID actually fit a lot of the typical tropes.

                I do actually have a point here somewhere - I'm trying to get there. I've seen male lead/female lead shipping frequently condemned as a cliche, but as SK pointed out, tropes are usually tropes for a reason. Lost in the condemnation of the trope as a cliche is the reality that it's usually only the female lead character (again, assuming there is one) that is developed enough and given enough agency and equality with the male lead to be able to stand with him on an equal playing field. And I think it's that sense of partnership and equality that attracts shippers. It seems, from my outside observations, that oftentimes male lead/female lead pairings will develop a large following even if it isn't written into the show. I know there were a lot of Mac/Stella shippers for CSI:NY, although the show never indicated that there was anything between them but friendship. And judging from the comments I read on the spoiler blogs, Benson/Stabler had a huge following on L&O: SVU even though apparently one of those characters was married (I don't actually watch that show). There's quite a few Pete/Myka shippers out there too although Warehouse 13 seems (at this point anyway) determined to label that relationship platonic.

                So it's not a surprise to me that John/Elizabeth developed the following it did, even if the writers actually never intended it (although, I have to admit, I still am a bit dumbfounded at that). JT-2 is right as far as what the three most predominant relationships on the show were as far as screentime went. To me, even shipping aside, John and Elizabeth were clearly partners and friends with a close bond, and I still feel that perhaps only Rodney is as close to him as she was, though in a different way. There were all the ingredients there for a ship, if the writers had chosen to do something with it. I personally didn't come over to the John/Elizabeth side until Adrift, and seeing John tear up when Keller talked to him. Everyone has different things that pushes their buttons I guess, and for me I guess it took the big dose of angst to get me to sign on. I just wish it had had a happier ending.

                I need to stop rambling now, and see if this made any sense at all - it did in my head! *darts back into lurkdom*
                Last edited by Killdeer; 08 July 2011, 12:51 PM.
                - Life after Stargate -
                Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
                Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
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                  Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
                  Hello all! Long time....*eases cautiously out of lurkdom*



                  I was planning to, but missed it by about half an hour. But even the replays were a bit emotional for me. *don't laugh* Wow - last one ever. *sad face*





                  Thought I'd weigh in on this discussion. I've shared with many of you, of course, my own experience - I thought it was supposed to be Elizabeth from the beginning (although I didn't actually start shipping them until Adrift). It truly never occurred to me that it was Teyla. I've discussed this with people on other threads, and in the past I've always contended that I went into the show without any bias or preconceived ideas about who was supposed to be shipped with who. But more recently I've realized......that's not actually true. There was one fairly major reason, not consciously but subconsciously, that I think is why I never even considered Teyla as a possibility. And that is that Elizabeth is the lead female character.

                  In my (admittedly noncomprehensive) experience with tv shows, male lead/female lead shipping is by far the norm, and if the male lead isn't paired with the female lead (assuming there is one), he's usually paired with one or a series of recurring characters. Male lead character/female supporting character shipping is rather rare, in my experience anyway, not nonexistent but not common either. In retrospect, I think this is why I always assumed it was going to be John/Elizabeth from the very beginning, and everything I saw on the show for the first two-two and a half seasons at least bore that out, in my mind anyway. It seemed to be that same type of "not-shipping" shipping they did with Jack and Sam on the first three seasons of SG-1....tease, but no actual ship. But I assumed they would go there eventually. And as others have pointed out, a lot of what they did with John and Elizabeth DID actually fit a lot of the typical tropes.

                  I do actually have a point here somewhere - I'm trying to get there. I've seen male lead/female lead shipping frequently condemned as a cliche, but as SK pointed out, tropes are usually tropes for a reason. Lost in the condemnation of the trope as a cliche is the reality that it's usually only the female lead character (again, assuming there is one) that is developed enough and given enough agency and equality with the male lead to be able to stand with him on an equal playing field. And I think it's that sense of partnership and equality that attracts shippers. It seems, from my outside observations, that oftentimes male lead/female lead pairings will develop a large following even if it isn't written into the show. I know there were a lot of Mac/Stella shippers for CSI:NY, although the show never indicated that there was anything between them but friendship. And judging from the comments I read on the spoiler blogs, Benson/Stabler had a huge following on L&O: SVU even though apparently one of those characters was married (I don't actually watch that show). There's quite a few Pete/Myka shippers out there too although Warehouse 13 seems (at this point anyway) determined to label that relationship platonic.

                  So it's not a surprise to me that John/Elizabeth developed the following it did, even if the writers actually never intended it (although, I have to admit, I still am a bit dumbfounded at that). JT-2 is right as far as what the three most predominant relationships on the show were as far as screentime went. To me, even shipping aside, John and Elizabeth were clearly partners and friends with a close bond, and I still feel that perhaps only Rodney is as close to him as she was, though in a different way. There were all the ingredients there for a ship, if the writers had chosen to do something with it. I personally didn't come over to the John/Elizabeth side until Adrift, and seeing John tear up when Keller talked to him. Everyone has different things that pushes their buttons I guess, and for me I guess it took the big dose of angst to get me to sign on. I just wish it had had a happier ending.

                  I need to stop rambling now, and see if this made any sense at all - it did in my head! *darts back into lurkdom*
                  Kiiillllddeeeerrrr! *glomps* You're back! And as smart as ever. I remember when you declared yourself not to be a shipper and were sort of a bridge between us and the general world. Meaning that nobody hated you for being one of those crazy Sparky shippers. LOL Welcome to the dark side. And yeah, we gained a lot of shippers with Adrift. Even more, I think, with GiTM. Now ain't that just a kick in the head. Sigh.

                  Stay around. We're still having fun.
                  sigpic

                  Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                  Comment


                    Killdeer! Long time, no see! How have you been?

                    I don't know what else to add to that magnificent post of yours, so I'll just give you some GREEN instead. I couldn't have said any of that better!

                    Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                    Kiiillllddeeeerrrr! *glomps* You're back! And as smart as ever. I remember when you declared yourself not to be a shipper and were sort of a bridge between us and the general world. Meaning that nobody hated you for being one of those crazy Sparky shippers. LOL Welcome to the dark side. And yeah, we gained a lot of shippers with Adrift. Even more, I think, with GiTM. Now ain't that just a kick in the head. Sigh.

                    Stay around. We're still having fun.
                    Kick in the head is right. At least they did come around. Still, it's bittersweet to think about sometimes.
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Hello all. I'm back. I've haven't been able to log back into the shabla forum till now. Have I missed anything interesting? The Sparky withdrawals have been terrible.
                      I tell you Teal'c, hockey is the coolest game on Earth!

                      Did you not say it is played on ice, O'Neill?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mandogater View Post
                        Hello all. I'm back. I've haven't been able to log back into the shabla forum till now. Have I missed anything interesting? The Sparky withdrawals have been terrible.
                        I have been havingg major Sparky withdrawals too. Because of Work.
                        BALCONIES
                        The Breeding Ground of Ships.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by mandogater View Post
                          Hello all. I'm back. I've haven't been able to log back into the shabla forum till now. Have I missed anything interesting? The Sparky withdrawals have been terrible.
                          Welcome back. There's always a lot you miss when you're away. Be sure to catch up on SGARising. The first 2 chapters of Trust are now up on the website. We're working like crazy right now. Lots of good discussion still going on here too.
                          sigpic

                          Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                          Comment


                            So from the West Coast of Florida, it was too overcast to see the launch. However, bringing your netbook to a Dunkin Donuts with WiFi and finding a website that is live streaming the launch? That I did. Unfortunately, I forgot my earbuds so I had no idea why they halted the countdown, but was happy to see everything go smoothly!

                            Killdeer, mandogater, welcome back to Sparkyville!

                            And OT:
                            Spoiler:
                            I just posted a Castle ficlet. At 286 words, it is my shortest posting ever. Heehee!


                            My desk is still a mess, so once I'm able to sort out the fics between my laptop and my netbook, I'll bring you more. I have a very interesting Jack/Elizabeth/Caldwell scene that y'all might like ...

                            Comment


                              Hiya, mandogater! Wow, it's great to see all these old friends dropping by! As SR mentioned, we've started posting episodes of Atlantis Rising, and we're still talking Sparky! Good times.

                              Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                              So from the West Coast of Florida, it was too overcast to see the launch. However, bringing your netbook to a Dunkin Donuts with WiFi and finding a website that is live streaming the launch? That I did. Unfortunately, I forgot my earbuds so I had no idea why they halted the countdown, but was happy to see everything go smoothly!
                              Glad you got to see it! That brief hold right before the end was because they didn't get the signal that the 'beanie cap' on the top of the external tank had retracted. They had to turn one of the launchpad cameras to check on it, and once they saw that the cap had fully retracted like it was supposed to, they resumed the countdown.

                              Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                              My desk is still a mess, so once I'm able to sort out the fics between my laptop and my netbook, I'll bring you more. I have a very interesting Jack/Elizabeth/Caldwell scene that y'all might like ...
                              ZOMG.
                              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                Welcome back. There's always a lot you miss when you're away. Be sure to catch up on SGARising. The first 2 chapters of Trust are now up on the website. We're working like crazy right now. Lots of good discussion still going on here too.
                                Sweet!!! I skimmed episode one and have the site finally bookmarked to finish them later. *Dodges tomatoes for not doing that sooner*

                                Thanks for the welcome back SR and you too SW.
                                I tell you Teal'c, hockey is the coolest game on Earth!

                                Did you not say it is played on ice, O'Neill?

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