Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Geeze, I had such trouble trying to get on yesterday evening. So annoying.

ShipperWriter, you're back! *glomps*

After all, she'd had lunch with John before (Tao of Rodney) so I doubt he would have thought
anything of it. However, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall if Rodney described the scene to John afterwards.

Yes, but this time she was wearing civilian clothes that totally could not be mistaken for a uniform.

The irony is that a good number of those fans will be older than Elizabeth themselves, no doubt.

*snorts*

Or a good clip around the ears

Or someone taking a paddle to his behind.

And having the Wraith become more like humans and giving them a sympathetic story is canon? You're right, we can't possibly move the story forward unless we add to canon. I think that's something, unless you've actually tried to write a story, some people will never understand. Yes, new things happen. But no, the characters will react in the same ways, have the same personality and morals, and be the same people they always were. Yes, they might, unlike
in the show, grow from an experience, but they will never be unrecognizable. For example, John will not suddenly start babbling about his feelings and telling stories about his mother.

Or crying for no good reason. Now, if it's tears that he's Just. Managing. To. Hold. Back. For Elizabeth. Well, there's already canon precedent for that.

[Scary Kitty]

ZOMG, I can't believe I forgot! The final part of the newest Stargate!Ren story, Adjustments, is now online!

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Geeze, I had such trouble trying to get on yesterday evening. So annoying.

ShipperWriter, you're back! *glomps*



Yes, but this time she was wearing civilian clothes that totally could not be mistaken for a uniform.



*snorts*



Or someone taking a paddle to his behind.



Or crying for no good reason. Now, if it's tears that he's Just. Managing. To. Hold. Back. For Elizabeth. Well, there's already canon precedent for that.

You're up early. I'm working on TBaF and finding tons of errors. LOL Just proves that you can't beta yourself.

I once read a fanfic that had John going off and getting drunk because he couldn't handle all the angst in his life. I don't see that happening. Our John Sheppard is going to be a little more stable than that. Just because he has a few beers from time to time doesn't mean he uses alcohol to solve his problems. Now punching something or playing golf is another story.

[Scary Kitty]

You're up early. I'm working on TBaF and finding tons of errors. LOL Just proves that you can't beta yourself.

Early? Just means more time to get into mischief.

I once read a fanfic that had John going off and getting drunk because he couldn't handle all the angst in his life. I don't see that happening. Our John Sheppard is going to be a little more stable than that. Just because he has a few beers from time to time doesn't mean he uses alcohol to solve his problems. Now punching something or playing golf is another story.

I really don't see John as a raging alcoholic, either. But punching something/one or taking some hard swings at golf balls while imagining them as certain people's heads? Ohhhh, yeah. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as being vaguely passive-aggressive?

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I know you guys have sort of moved on from this discussion but I just remembered more points about him I suppose to be fair to Mike, I think the idea behind his character was, (at the most basic level) conceptually sound. As in, I don't really have a problem with the idea of giving Weir an episode long love interest, per say. After John or Rodney or Carson got one, it would seem only fair. It's just the way they went about setting up his appearance made the execution of that idea seem so awkward and contrived.

[JT-2]

Oh ShipperWriter - you're still a wee lass, don't you worry!

I really don't see John as a raging alcoholic, either. But punching something/one or taking some hard swings at golf balls while imagining them as certain people's heads? Ohhhh, yeah. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as being vaguely passive-aggressive?

I agree with both of you, but getting to see him pound his hand against a wall would have been nice. That being said, I'm so grateful to Joe for all the woobie faces he made.

Spoiler:

[JT-2]

I know you guys have sort of moved on from this discussion but I just remembered more points about him I suppose to be fair to Mike, I think the idea behind his character was, (at the most basic level) conceptually sound. As in, I don't really have a problem with the idea of giving Weir an episode long love interest, per say. After John or Rodney or Carson got one, it would seem only fair. It's just the way they went about setting up his appearance made the execution of that idea seem so awkward and contrived.

I agree. I think the anvil of "see - this is why Sparky wouldn't work" anvil is what annoyed me about him. Well, except for him being pushy but not in a cute John way.

[Southern Red]

I know you guys have sort of moved on from this discussion but I just remembered more points about him I suppose to be fair to Mike, I think the idea behind his character was, (at the most basic level) conceptually sound. As in, I don't really have a problem with the idea of giving Weir an episode long love interest, per say. After John or Rodney or Carson got one, it would seem only fair. It's just the way they went about setting up his appearance made the execution of that idea seem so awkward and contrived.

I agree. I think the anvil of "see - this is why Sparky wouldn't work" anvil is what annoyed me about him. Well, except for him being pushy but not in a cute John way.

I agree with both of you. And the sad thing is, I doubt they even for a second made the comparison with John. They had no idea what they were doing and didn't think anyone else would see it either. I mean, anyone who could think the hug wouldn't come across as shippy is capable of anything. And again, another reason to thank our lucky stars that they didn't actually set out to ship them. Can you imagine the catastrophe?

[JT-2]

I agree with both of you. And the sad thing is, I doubt they even for a second made the comparison with John. They had no idea what they were doing and didn't think anyone else would see it either. I mean, anyone who could think the hug wouldn't come across as shippy is capable of anything. And again, another reason to thank our lucky stars that they didn't actually set out to ship them. Can you imagine the catastrophe?

*thinks of McKeller*

*shudders*

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I try to be as impartial as possible regarding the hug. I can't really see it as as anything other than "shippy" (I can't believe I'm actually using all this terminology now ) but I made an effort to try to see why somebody would not. It is true that sometimes a hug is just a hug, I still don't think that was one of those times but still. To be fair I suppose Shepard and Teyla had a hug in Season 4 (after the wraith she was controlling almost damaged her baby) where I didn't immediately think of shipping. The circumstances behind that scene were certainly different than the Sheppard/Weir one but John actually didn't react all that dissimilar.

The thing is, even without the hug AND all the actors' performances, Weir and Shepard kind of hit more than one "slow build to eventual romance" tropes. The Long Goodbye is probably the most obvious. I suppose Phebus and Thalan were not really husband and wife but even by inexplicably pretending they were for a second kind of created the effect of the old "possessed by old lovers" thing. I can think of at least three times, just off the top of my head, when that storyline was used with a potential romantic couple on some TV show or other.

[Southern Red]

I try to be as impartial as possible regarding the hug. I can't really see it as as anything other than "shippy" (I can't believe I'm actually using all this terminology now ) but I made an effort to try to see why somebody would not. It is true that sometimes a hug is just a hug, I still don't think that was one of those times but still. To be fair I suppose Shepard and Teyla had a hug in Season 4 (after the wraith she was controlling almost damaged her baby) where I didn't immediately think of shipping. The circumstances behind that scene were certainly different than the Sheppard/Weir one but John actually didn't react all that dissimilar.

The thing is, even without the hug AND all the actors' performances, Weir and Shepard kind of hit more than one "slow build to eventual romance" tropes. The Long Goodbye is probably the most obvious. I suppose Phebus and Thalan were not really husband and wife but even by inexplicably pretending they were for a second kind of created the effect of the old "possessed by old lovers" thing. I can think of at least three times, just off the top of my head, when that storyline was used with a potential romantic couple on some TV show or other.

SR Jr, is that you? You have just said exactly what my son kept telling me back in those days when he was telling me to stop worrying. Now he just shakes his head in disgust. You don't write a show that follows so religiously all the motifs that make up, not just SciFi, but all genres of TV and movies and then just deny the whole thing. We've all seen shows on which the ship looks carved in stone, and then one of the actors involved leaves the show. In that case, we are able to adjust with little trauma, but this is vastly different. I've never seen another show with such a clear cut ship that the writers denied was happening. Most of the time, when a ship is very popular they go with it. If they're smart, that is.

Now imagine all the people who watched SGA but didn't come online. How many of them are totally ignorant today of any other ship but Sparky? I know some who fit that category.

Oh, and Teyla hugged John twice, once in Doppelganger after Kate's death, and again in SOW. He reacted the same both times, though in the SOW one, he did try to comfort her awkwardly. However, the difference to me was in his reaction. Oddly, we didn't get to see them afterwards either time. In the Sparky hug, though, we did and that IMHO was the shippiest part. Like here:

Spoiler:

[Eri13]

I agree. I think the anvil of "see - this is why Sparky wouldn't work" anvil is what annoyed me about him. Well, except for him being pushy but not in a cute John way.

I know you guys have sort of moved on from this discussion but I just remembered more points about him I suppose to be fair to Mike, I think the idea behind his character was, (at the most basic level) conceptually sound. As in, I don't really have a problem with the idea of giving Weir an episode long love interest, per say. After John or Rodney or Carson got one, it would seem only fair. It's just the way they went about setting up his appearance made the execution of that idea seem so awkward and contrived.

Yeah, I didn't have much of a problem with the idea, but I had to LOL a bit at how at no point in time did they attempt to put John in a situation where he'd observe bearded Mike.

Almost everyone else either got a glimpse (Rodney) or a hint (Carson, Teyla) of her having a 'date' but John? Fwippppppppppppppppp Right over/around his head. The only time he saw her was when they were discussing what they should do about the emergency, right?

Personally, I thought that it was done that way deliberately, because I don't think the Marty trusted Joe's reactions. If you think about it, pretty much any reaction he had to seeing her with Mike would have been sorta shippy, because I don't think Joe would have let John play it off like Rodney or Carson. However, that's totally my opinion.

[Southern Red]

Yeah, I didn't have much of a problem with the idea, but I had to LOL a bit at how at no point in time did they attempt to put John in a situation where he'd observe bearded Mike.

Almost everyone else either got a glimpse (Rodney) or a hint (Carson, Teyla) of her having a 'date' but John? Fwippppppppppppppppp Right over/around his head. The only time he saw her was when they were discussing what they should do about the emergency, right?

Personally, I thought that it was done that way deliberately, because I don't think the Marty trusted Joe's reactions. If you think about it, pretty much any reaction he had to seeing her with Mike would have been sorta shippy, because I don't think Joe would have let John play it off like Rodney or Carson. However, that's totally my opinion.

And your opinion is totally the correct one. I thought that too. He was so excited when he heard Teyla was having lunch with her, even to the point of saying she had been working too much. Right after Teyla has been trying to weasel out of playing golf with John and Ronon, we got this:

TEYLA: If you would like, I could cancel ...

SHEPPARD: No, no, no, no. She could use a little time out of the office. Some other time.

TEYLA: Some other time.


John is trying to talk her out of whatever plans she has made until he finds out she's having lunch with Elizabeth. Teyla even offers to change her plans, but he thinks getting Elizabeth out of her office is more important. This also helps show that Teyla and Elizabeth are friends.

I am also reminded of the beginning of, Brainstorm I believe, when John and Ronon saw Rodney/Jennifer together and John had a worried look in reaction. Shippers insisted that he was jealous, but I'm thinking he was remembering TLM and the events that happened in the future. Shippers see what shippers want to see. We do too, but at least we know Joe is helping us. LOL

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I am also reminded of the beginning of, Brainstorm I believe, when John and Ronon saw Rodney/Jennifer together and John had a worried look in reaction. Shippers insisted that he was jealous, but I'm thinking he was remembering TLM and the events that happened in the future. Shippers see what shippers want to see. We do too, but at least we know Joe is helping us. LOL

i remember watching a vid on Youtube that was Sparky based and it's funny because they used the scene in Brainstorm where rodney and jennifer are having lunch and as Sheppard is looking onward at them they make where he has a flashback to where John was having lunch with Elizabeth. just wish i remember the name of the vid or when it was made.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

I try to be as impartial as possible regarding the hug. I can't really see it as as anything other than "shippy" (I can't believe I'm actually using all this terminology now ) but I made an effort to try to see why somebody would not. It is true that sometimes a hug is just a hug, I still don't think that was one of those times but still. To be fair I suppose Shepard and Teyla had a hug in Season 4 (after the wraith she was controlling almost damaged her baby) where I didn't immediately think of shipping. The circumstances behind that scene were certainly different than the Sheppard/Weir one but John actually didn't react all that dissimilar.

The thing is, even without the hug AND all the actors' performances, Weir and Shepard kind of hit more than one "slow build to eventual romance" tropes. The Long Goodbye is probably the most obvious. I suppose Phebus and Thalan were not really husband and wife but even by inexplicably pretending they were for a second kind of created the effect of the old "possessed by old lovers" thing. I can think of at least three times, just off the top of my head, when that storyline was used with a potential romantic couple on some TV show or other.

See, that was what had me convinced it was going to be Sheppard and Weir when I first started watching the show. All the typical 'slow burn' roadsigns were there for them. It just seemed so obvious to me. Tropes become well known for being tropes because they work when done right. Sheppard and Weir were doing it right. TPTW set themselves up for failure when they failed to follow the cardinal rule of going where the chemistry was. Their loss. Of course, they probably would've screwed it up anyway.