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    Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
    So what do you guys think? And try to put aside the shippy glasses. What exactly is canon? This would help the SGARising writers tremendously. We absolutely must have this straight in keeping with the majority of fandom if we want our S6 to be widely accepted.
    My shippy glasses are easily set aside, considering that my favorite ship could never be canon in the first place.

    But as far as I am concerned, I consider it canon if I've seen it on screen - filmed as it were. Info that we have been told about on screen, like Teyla's wraith DNA or that John has an ex-wife, or that Rodney loves Jennifer.

    Emotions on screen can be interpreted in whatever way the viewer seems fit even if they contradict what is seen on screen. I'm not going there... ...don't worry.
    For example, Teyla is clearly saddened at the loss of Kate, whom we can assume was a good friend of hers (although that's mere assumption on our part since it was never really said). However, as a shipper I interpret the sadness as that of a woman who's just lost her lover. But we all know that's not what is happening in canon.

    Am I making sense?

    Originally posted by Zandra's Ashes View Post
    This raises a valid concern I did not address, which is the one of deleted scenes. The author of the article you linked mentioned how extended epps are often aired overseas and trimmed for US viewing. I'm not entirely sure how to figure out those deleted scenes vs. deleted scenes that were cut prior to airing anywhere. That does pose an interesting dilemma in terms of interpreting canon. If there is a way to discern which deleted scenes are which, I would venture to say that those scenes that aired overseas are indeed canon. However, that just makes the waters murkier because how do you hold up the canon flag to those who are not aware of the different types of deleted scenes and have not had access to see those scenes? Oy. I have a headache now
    As far as Stargate is concerned towards trimmed episodes, I think we all pretty much saw what the US audience got to see.

    However, in the case of Torchwood I know that Syfy cuts away scenes which they deem inappropriate for the (US) audience such as our favorite captain making out with one of his boyfriends in a bar (after they've smashed it to pieces - They've got history.) or Jack and Ianto.

    Then what is canon indeed.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
      My shippy glasses are easily set aside, considering that my favorite ship could never be canon in the first place.

      But as far as I am concerned, I consider it canon if I've seen it on screen - filmed as it were. Info that we have been told about on screen, like Teyla's wraith DNA or that John has an ex-wife, or that Rodney loves Jennifer.

      Emotions on screen can be interpreted in whatever way the viewer seems fit even if they contradict what is seen on screen. I'm not going there... ...don't worry.
      For example, Teyla is clearly saddened at the loss of Kate, whom we can assume was a good friend of hers (although that's mere assumption on our part since it was never really said). However, as a shipper I interpret the sadness as that of a woman who's just lost her lover. But we all know that's not what is happening in canon.

      Am I making sense?



      As far as Stargate is concerned towards trimmed episodes, I think we all pretty much saw what the US audience got to see.

      However, in the case of Torchwood I know that Syfy cuts away scenes which they deem inappropriate for the (US) audience such as our favorite captain making out with one of his boyfriends in a bar (after they've smashed it to pieces - They've got history.) or Jack and Ianto.

      Then what is canon indeed.
      You make perfect sense. Shippiness is indeed up for interpretation except in certain cases, McKeller being one of them. Sadly.

      And again, if the retconning done by JM in his blog contradicts on screen information, then we ignore JM and go with canon. But if he answers a question or clears up a point of confusion, like saying there was a scene not filmed that proved John "beat himself up" mentally about not being able to save Elizabeth, then I think we are safe to use or not use what he said depending on whether we want to go in that direction. Oh dear, now I have confused myself.
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      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

      Comment


        Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday! And how very appropriate that the question of "what is canon?" is front and center in discussion today!

        (As for why I was AWOL yesterday, let's just say that Sunday was not so lazy for me! )

        Originally posted by JT-2 View Post
        Hi all. I have nothing intelligent to say today (today?). Last night I was thinking about ages, and realized that I am now around the age Torri was when SGA started. So who are the twits saying she's old, so I can use my wisdom and experience to kick their @sses?!
        You and me both! Let's go kick their asses together!

        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        Weekend away didn't go exactly as planned.... and while I did get some relaxing time, the company I went with pretty much ruined it in the grand scheme of things. So, nothing to be jealous about.

        Although, coming home I find a mail in my inbox that states that one of my fics was recced on stargateficrec on LJ, and that was a pleasant surprise. It was the first time.
        Aw, bummer that the weekend wasn't what you were hoping for. But yay for the rec! That's definitely something nice to come home to!

        Originally posted by Siara.Corvus View Post
        I like to believe that every woman has a little Elizabeth in them
        ZOMG, we've got a new tag line for Weir fans!

        Originally posted by Irish Eyes View Post
        Honey, this is a big gripe of mine too. And what really irked me was TPTW would just hand wave things to fit their needs. Example: Rodney was all giddy about getting command of Atlantis in the episode after Elizabeth is lost. WTH? And when questioned about it on TBOD (the blog of doom) JM said in the timeline it had actually been several weeks since the incident with Elizabeth. Oh really? *headdesk*
        Honestly, I could believe it had been several weeks. There's the chaos of dealing with the immediate fallout from Elizabeth's loss (having to change Alpha Sites, IDCs and other security codes, and otherwise secure anything else that Elizabeth knew about that the Asurans might try to exploit), then there's the chaos and political maneuvering between Stargate Command, the IOA, and other interested parties in choosing a successor. What pissed me off was Rodney's blasé attitude and apparent lack of guilty feelings for his role in losing Elizabeth to begin with. Even if it had been several weeks, everyone still would have been mourning her. I think Rodney's attitude, Carter failing to make any mention of Elizabeth in her "I'm your new boss!" speech, etc., really speaks to TPTW's own lack of decency and compassion with regards to how the characters should have been acting in this situation.

        So, now to the question of what is "canon." To me, it's the complete version of an episode or film. That includes scenes that were deleted due to time constraints or censorship (FH made a very good point regarding SyFy's handling of Torchwood in that regard). That seems to be a case of authorial intent that is much more clear cut than, say, JM's blog entries. Of course, there are cases where creators giving clarifications to fans after the fact are considered canon; my old standby, Babylon 5, is a prime example. With B5, the show was far more consistent with the writing; sure, sometimes there were contradictions and bloopers, but typically J. Michael Straczynski's posts on Usenet helped to rectify those errors, as well as giving more details that maybe just wouldn't have fit into the episodes, but were things that he needed to know in the back of his mind as he was writing those episodes.

        As for books and other tie-in media? It depends. If they are created with input directly from the creator or other creative authority (showrunner, executive producer) of a TV show/film, then they're certainly more canon than tie-ins that are created without input/approval from the powers that be in charge of that fictional universe. Case in point: again, Babylon 5. The later novels were developed from story outlines provided by JMS, JMS has officially acknowledged those books as canon, and they are accepted as canon by the B5 fandom. Whereas with the Stargate novels/comic books/audio dramas, those were all (with the exception of the novelizations of the SGA and SGU pilots, which were written based on the scripts) developed independently of TPTW's work. Mallozzi and I believe also Brad Wright have stated repeatedly that they do not have any input into the novels; they don't read them, they don't write future episodes to take things that happen in the books into account, and as far as TPTW is concerned, the novels don't exist. Some of the novels have done a better job at trying to fit into on-screen canon, but the novels just aren't canon.

        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
        And again, if the retconning done by JM in his blog contradicts on screen information, then we ignore JM and go with canon. But if he answers a question or clears up a point of confusion, like saying there was a scene not filmed that proved John "beat himself up" mentally about not being able to save Elizabeth, then I think we are safe to use or not use what he said depending on whether we want to go in that direction. Oh dear, now I have confused myself.
        Oh, that's not confusing at all. What you've described is right in line with how other fandoms have chosen to deal with such 'screen-canon vs. creator statements' conflicts. It's really the sanest approach, at any rate.
        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
          ]And again, if the retconning done by JM in his blog contradicts on screen information, then we ignore JM and go with canon. But if he answers a question or clears up a point of confusion, like saying there was a scene not filmed that proved John "beat himself up" mentally about not being able to save Elizabeth, then I think we are safe to use or not use what he said depending on whether we want to go in that direction. Oh dear, now I have confused myself.
          I think JM somehow managed to show John's guilt with the whole "Kolya Hallucination" in Reminants, you know when Kolya says that John tortures himself everyday. I don't think John would have thought as dark of a situation of being roughen up by Kolya and losing his hand if A)Elizabeth wasn't left with the replicators or B) They found Elizabeth by then. I know John beats himself up too over people like Ford for example, but Elizabeth who John swore to always protect topped the cake. It was a dark and a surrealist way to show it.....but brought the point across.

          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
          Honestly, I could believe it had been several weeks. There's the chaos of dealing with the immediate fallout from Elizabeth's loss (having to change Alpha Sites, IDCs and other security codes, and otherwise secure anything else that Elizabeth knew about that the Asurans might try to exploit), then there's the chaos and political maneuvering between Stargate Command, the IOA, and other interested parties in choosing a successor. What pissed me off was Rodney's blasé attitude and apparent lack of guilty feelings for his role in losing Elizabeth to begin with. Even if it had been several weeks, everyone still would have been mourning her. I think Rodney's attitude, Carter failing to make any mention of Elizabeth in her "I'm your new boss!" speech, etc., really speaks to TPTW's own lack of decency and compassion with regards to how the characters should have been acting in this situation.
          I don't think TPTW are really good at showing the immediate fall outs of traumatic situations that happen amongst the group. I mean for example the case "Common Ground" got me so angry as a psychology major particuliarlly. I was expecting to see some fall out and quips of PTSD with John but no.....it was like it never happened, maybe it was mentioned a few times.

          But I was just as angry there was no RESOLUTION between John and Elizabeth (meaning they discuss what happened and come to peace with it), I mean Elizabeth wasn't the one fed on by a Wraith but she was just as destroyed as John was by the situation. I mean both being fed on/watching your love/friend be fed on by a wraith is not something to recover from over night.

          Totally went off on a tangeant just now...
          BALCONIES
          The Breeding Ground of Ships.
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            Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
            ZOMG, we've got a new tag line for Weir fans!
            Feel free to use it
            What was the old one?

            Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post


            I don't think TPTW are really good at showing the immediate fall outs of traumatic situations that happen amongst the group. I mean for example the case "Common Ground" got me so angry as a psychology major particuliarlly. I was expecting to see some fall out and quips of PTSD with John but no.....it was like it never happened, maybe it was mentioned a few times.

            But I was just as angry there was no RESOLUTION between John and Elizabeth (meaning they discuss what happened and come to peace with it), I mean Elizabeth wasn't the one fed on by a Wraith but she was just as destroyed as John was by the situation. I mean both being fed on/watching your love/friend be fed on by a wraith is not something to recover from over night.

            Totally went off on a tangeant just now...
            I found that strange too.
            I get that they didn't want to make a huge deal of it and get on with the series, but we're supposed to believe these are real people, right?
            No one can go through stuff like that and just shrug it off, whether they were the victim or just watched.
            Atleast have some mentioning of John visiting the psychologist, or someone checking on him.
            I'd have expected Elizabeth or Teyla would show some more concern, but to just ignore it.. IMO a bad call by TPTB
            Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
              Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday! And how very appropriate that the question of "what is canon?" is front and center in discussion today!

              (As for why I was AWOL yesterday, let's just say that Sunday was not so lazy for me! )



              You and me both! Let's go kick their asses together!



              Aw, bummer that the weekend wasn't what you were hoping for. But yay for the rec! That's definitely something nice to come home to!



              ZOMG, we've got a new tag line for Weir fans!



              Honestly, I could believe it had been several weeks. There's the chaos of dealing with the immediate fallout from Elizabeth's loss (having to change Alpha Sites, IDCs and other security codes, and otherwise secure anything else that Elizabeth knew about that the Asurans might try to exploit), then there's the chaos and political maneuvering between Stargate Command, the IOA, and other interested parties in choosing a successor. What pissed me off was Rodney's blasé attitude and apparent lack of guilty feelings for his role in losing Elizabeth to begin with. Even if it had been several weeks, everyone still would have been mourning her. I think Rodney's attitude, Carter failing to make any mention of Elizabeth in her "I'm your new boss!" speech, etc., really speaks to TPTW's own lack of decency and compassion with regards to how the characters should have been acting in this situation.
              And thus the reason why JF felt he had to go to them and in his own words "pitch a fit" about them ignoring Elizabeth's death. According to him, they said "oh yeah, I guess we could have some sort of emotional reaction" and so he began the woobie faces that frustrated them to no end. LOL And I believe it was after his "fit" that they stuck in the balcony scene where he vowed to find her.


              So, now to the question of what is "canon." To me, it's the complete version of an episode or film. That includes scenes that were deleted due to time constraints or censorship (FH made a very good point regarding SyFy's handling of Torchwood in that regard). That seems to be a case of authorial intent that is much more clear cut than, say, JM's blog entries. Of course, there are cases where creators giving clarifications to fans after the fact are considered canon; my old standby, Babylon 5, is a prime example. With B5, the show was far more consistent with the writing; sure, sometimes there were contradictions and bloopers, but typically J. Michael Straczynski's posts on Usenet helped to rectify those errors, as well as giving more details that maybe just wouldn't have fit into the episodes, but were things that he needed to know in the back of his mind as he was writing those episodes.

              As for books and other tie-in media? It depends. If they are created with input directly from the creator or other creative authority (showrunner, executive producer) of a TV show/film, then they're certainly more canon than tie-ins that are created without input/approval from the powers that be in charge of that fictional universe. Case in point: again, Babylon 5. The later novels were developed from story outlines provided by JMS, JMS has officially acknowledged those books as canon, and they are accepted as canon by the B5 fandom. Whereas with the Stargate novels/comic books/audio dramas, those were all (with the exception of the novelizations of the SGA and SGU pilots, which were written based on the scripts) developed independently of TPTW's work. Mallozzi and I believe also Brad Wright have stated repeatedly that they do not have any input into the novels; they don't read them, they don't write future episodes to take things that happen in the books into account, and as far as TPTW is concerned, the novels don't exist. Some of the novels have done a better job at trying to fit into on-screen canon, but the novels just aren't canon.



              Oh, that's not confusing at all. What you've described is right in line with how other fandoms have chosen to deal with such 'screen-canon vs. creator statements' conflicts. It's really the sanest approach, at any rate.
              Oh yeah, I meant to mention authorial intent. Thanks for bringing that up. Fans do tend to ignore that or declare it to be gospel depending on their own personal canon.


              Originally posted by Siara.Corvus View Post
              Feel free to use it
              What was the old one?



              I found that strange too.
              I get that they didn't want to make a huge deal of it and get on with the series, but we're supposed to believe these are real people, right?
              No one can go through stuff like that and just shrug it off, whether they were the victim or just watched.
              Atleast have some mentioning of John visiting the psychologist, or someone checking on him.
              I'd have expected Elizabeth or Teyla would show some more concern, but to just ignore it.. IMO a bad call by TPTB
              We have a number of old slogans. "Pesky and impossible to kill" is one.

              TPTB always gave the excuse that the show was episodic, not serial for the lack of continuity. They went on about it being impossible to syndicate serials and that when the shows were aired in syndication they would sometimes be shown out of order. Blahblahblah. Nobody bought it.
              sigpic

              Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                Re the what is canon discussion, I've always thought that it's what was actually aired. That's it, a black and white boundary. I don't include deleted scenes in that, whether they were cut for time or otherwise (the exception there would be the example Falcon Horus alluded to with scenes being censored rather than cut, but even then, it would depend on the show involved).

                Anything that is said on a commentary, an interview, in a deleted scene, on a blog etc might add to the show, but I don't consider it to be a part of it. While sci-fi shows are a little different, the majority of mosts shows viewers are not exposed to this extra information, by choice.

                The fact that TPTW of SGA needed to explain some of their decisions after the fact is an indictment on their storytelling. This arguement would be moot if they actually took the wiggle room out of their show eg who was Teyla referring to in Sunday? If it had been weeks or months between Lifeline & Reunion, why didn't they say so at the time?
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                  Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                  TPTB always gave the excuse that the show was episodic, not serial for the lack of continuity. They went on about it being impossible to syndicate serials and that when the shows were aired in syndication they would sometimes be shown out of order. Blahblahblah. Nobody bought it.
                  But still episodic type shows like Criminal Minds show a fall out of a situation of an traumatic event don't they?
                  BALCONIES
                  The Breeding Ground of Ships.
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                    Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post
                    But still episodic type shows like Criminal Minds show a fall out of a situation of an traumatic event don't they?
                    Only in the broadest sense like when a character leaves or in the case of your example a divorce or death of a spouse, etc. You could watch them out of order and only be a little confused. But shows like CM are procedurals-crime, solve the crime in 44 min. SGA was too in a way I guess-crisis, solve the crisis in 44 min. SGA was particularly bad in that no character ever seemed changed by events. John should have had some lasting effects to get over on a number of occasions. Rodney proposed to Katie but never spoke of her again. Ronon and Teyla were the only ones with an actual emotional arc. Ronon and Sateda coupled with his reluctance to give up the memory of Melena. Teyla with losing her father and her people living in fear of the Wraith. Even John's marriage didn't seem to have made a dent in him. And Rodney was just all over the place and full of character inconsistencies. Basically it just boils down to badwritingbadwritingbadwriting and making excuses for their own shortcomings.
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                    Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                      Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post
                      But still episodic type shows like Criminal Minds show a fall out of a situation of an traumatic event don't they?
                      TPTB are just taking the easy route, saying it's episodic.
                      That way they can ignore the loose ends and concentrate on what's to come.
                      Just changing a few scenes, making it more real, more personal and they could have done so much more with the episodes, so much more with the characters and their relationships.
                      Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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                        Originally posted by Zandra's Ashes View Post
                        The SGARising writers will do wonderfully. You have my trust and my faith.
                        Mine too!!
                        I tell you Teal'c, hockey is the coolest game on Earth!

                        Did you not say it is played on ice, O'Neill?

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                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          And thus the reason why JF felt he had to go to them and in his own words "pitch a fit" about them ignoring Elizabeth's death. According to him, they said "oh yeah, I guess we could have some sort of emotional reaction" and so he began the woobie faces that frustrated them to no end. LOL And I believe it was after his "fit" that they stuck in the balcony scene where he vowed to find her.
                          And thank goodness for us that JF did take matters into his own hands. Otherwise we'd be left wondering when Sheppard got a lobotomy.

                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          Oh yeah, I meant to mention authorial intent. Thanks for bringing that up. Fans do tend to ignore that or declare it to be gospel depending on their own personal canon.
                          *salutes*

                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          TPTB always gave the excuse that the show was episodic, not serial for the lack of continuity. They went on about it being impossible to syndicate serials and that when the shows were aired in syndication they would sometimes be shown out of order. Blahblahblah. Nobody bought it.
                          Certainly I and my fellow fans of Babylon 5 thought that was BS.

                          Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post
                          But still episodic type shows like Criminal Minds show a fall out of a situation of an traumatic event don't they?
                          NCIS really kicks ass at doing this right.
                          Spoiler:
                          Heck, it's been years since Kate Todd's death, and we just got a new episode with her sister coming by to check up on Team Gibbs!
                          (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                          Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                            NCIS really kicks ass at doing this right.
                            Spoiler:
                            Heck, it's been years since Kate Todd's death, and we just got a new episode with her sister coming by to check up on Team Gibbs!
                            Oh shoot... that reminds me I still have some serious catching up to do.
                            Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                            Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                              Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday! And how very appropriate that the question of "what is canon?" is front and center in discussion today!

                              (As for why I was AWOL yesterday, let's just say that Sunday was not so lazy for me! )
                              Hope you had a good if not so lazy day!

                              Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                              Re the what is canon discussion, I've always thought that it's what was actually aired. That's it, a black and white boundary. I don't include deleted scenes in that, whether they were cut for time or otherwise (the exception there would be the example Falcon Horus alluded to with scenes being censored rather than cut, but even then, it would depend on the show involved).

                              Anything that is said on a commentary, an interview, in a deleted scene, on a blog etc might add to the show, but I don't consider it to be a part of it. While sci-fi shows are a little different, the majority of mosts shows viewers are not exposed to this extra information, by choice.

                              The fact that TPTW of SGA needed to explain some of their decisions after the fact is an indictment on their storytelling. This arguement would be moot if they actually took the wiggle room out of their show eg who was Teyla referring to in Sunday? If it had been weeks or months between Lifeline & Reunion, why didn't they say so at the time?
                              I recently listened to a GW podcast (May 13, 2009) and Darren and the two others were talking about how some PTB (I don't know which) had usernames on this site and at one point were actively posting things that they never followed through on. It sounded like mostly Sam/Jack stuff on SG1 with Pete, but it was said they posted "big things are coming" and made several other statements and it sounded like the podcasts hosts (IMO) all seemed to agree to was to incite the fan base and increase viewership. This is not what I would consider actions worthy of trust and it makes me unwilling to put much faith in blogs or interviews (though there have been times I would love too.)
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                                Happy Monday! Well, ok, Mondays suck, but I'm trying to be cheerful.

                                Before I get to the real stuff, I have to just say "Rodney + children = JT shuddering"

                                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                                You and me both! Let's go kick their asses together!
                                Where's my pitchfork?

                                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                                Honestly, I could believe it had been several weeks. There's the chaos of dealing with the immediate fallout from Elizabeth's loss (having to change Alpha Sites, IDCs and other security codes, and otherwise secure anything else that Elizabeth knew about that the Asurans might try to exploit), then there's the chaos and political maneuvering between Stargate Command, the IOA, and other interested parties in choosing a successor. What pissed me off was Rodney's blasé attitude and apparent lack of guilty feelings for his role in losing Elizabeth to begin with. Even if it had been several weeks, everyone still would have been mourning her. I think Rodney's attitude, Carter failing to make any mention of Elizabeth in her "I'm your new boss!" speech, etc., really speaks to TPTW's own lack of decency and compassion with regards to how the characters should have been acting in this situation.
                                THIS! The same Rodney that wrote a 500 page book about Elizabeth is not upset about it at all? Especially considering part of that whole mess was his fault, he should have should some feelings about it. In the commentary, JM was laughing about how "funny" it was that Rodney would think he would get promoted. From his point of view, dumping Elizabeth was a great thing so of course he's not going to see that from Rodney's perspective it would be really sad. But I think JM is a butt-hole, so...

                                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                                So, now to the question of what is "canon." To me, it's the complete version of an episode or film. That includes scenes that were deleted due to time constraints or censorship (FH made a very good point regarding SyFy's handling of Torchwood in that regard). That seems to be a case of authorial intent that is much more clear cut than, say, JM's blog entries.
                                I don't consider deleted scenes to be canon, because if the show was still going on they could easily contradict the deleted scenes if they wanted to. I think canon is only what was seen on screen in the normal TV show.

                                Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post
                                I think JM somehow managed to show John's guilt with the whole "Kolya Hallucination" in Reminants, you know when Kolya says that John tortures himself everyday. I don't think John would have thought as dark of a situation of being roughen up by Kolya and losing his hand if A)Elizabeth wasn't left with the replicators or B) They found Elizabeth by then. I know John beats himself up too over people like Ford for example, but Elizabeth who John swore to always protect topped the cake. It was a dark and a surrealist way to show it.....but brought the point across.
                                I agree with you. I don't think the line from JM's blog in Remnants is canon, however I don't think it was even really needed. I think even non-Sparky shippers would agree that Elizabeth is his greatest Atlantis failure (you could make arguments about his pre-Atlantis days, of course, since we know so little about them). Of course, it would have been awesome to have that shown on screen. I wonder why JM posted stuff like that. What was the point? Everyone knows his opinion of Elizabeth. Did he think he was going to fool us? I don't believe his entry about rescuing Elizabeth being a possible season 6 story. Not for one minute. It's very easy to say that when you know there WON'T be a season 6. Whoa, got off topic - sorry!

                                Originally posted by TheLadyMore View Post
                                I don't think TPTW are really good at showing the immediate fall outs of traumatic situations that happen amongst the group. I mean for example the case "Common Ground" got me so angry as a psychology major particuliarlly. I was expecting to see some fall out and quips of PTSD with John but no.....it was like it never happened, maybe it was mentioned a few times.

                                But I was just as angry there was no RESOLUTION between John and Elizabeth (meaning they discuss what happened and come to peace with it), I mean Elizabeth wasn't the one fed on by a Wraith but she was just as destroyed as John was by the situation. I mean both being fed on/watching your love/friend be fed on by a wraith is not something to recover from over night.

                                Totally went off on a tangeant just now...
                                Yes, totally agree. Of course, this is one of the reasons I love fanfic. It fills in the gaps.

                                Originally posted by Siara.Corvus View Post
                                TPTB are just taking the easy route, saying it's episodic.
                                That way they can ignore the loose ends and concentrate on what's to come.
                                Just changing a few scenes, making it more real, more personal and they could have done so much more with the episodes, so much more with the characters and their relationships.
                                Yes. I think it was their excuse.

                                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                                And thank goodness for us that JF did take matters into his own hands. Otherwise we'd be left wondering when Sheppard got a lobotomy.
                                Whoa, whoa, whoa! I didn't know JF went to them about this. So that scene in Reunion between him and Carter - that wasn't originally going to happen? Whoa, what?!


                                Now I love Joe even more!

                                Originally posted by Zandra's Ashes View Post
                                Hope you had a good if not so lazy day!



                                I recently listened to a GW podcast (May 13, 2009) and Darren and the two others were talking about how some PTB (I don't know which) had usernames on this site and at one point were actively posting things that they never followed through on. It sounded like mostly Sam/Jack stuff on SG1 with Pete, but it was said they posted "big things are coming" and made several other statements and it sounded like the podcasts hosts (IMO) all seemed to agree to was to incite the fan base and increase viewership. This is not what I would consider actions worthy of trust and it makes me unwilling to put much faith in blogs or interviews (though there have been times I would love too.)
                                This is off topic but I don't think any PTB should get involved in online fandom. I've seen it kill some fandoms. Suddenly people don't speak their minds, or else people will get over the top. It never goes well. Podcasts - sure. But posting - no.

                                Oh, and if you have to go online and post explanations to things then you didn't do your job very well.

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