Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday! Good luck to everyone's teams!

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday! Good luck to everyone's teams!

And I second that. It's a big football day for me. *chews nails*

[Scary Kitty]

And I second that. It's a big football day for me. *chews nails*

*chews nails right along with you*

One bit of good news: Air Force defeated UNLV on Thursday, 35-20. So at least John is happy.

[gateraid]

And he cared about the other characters and the show as a whole. *glares at TPTB*



The same thing happens to me unless I close the browser and reopen it. Makes me



True but in RL Major Davis would have been promoted long ago. He does a great job. His superiors rely on and trust him and he seems to be a great officer. I have heard tales though that sometimes the Generals keep people around because they are so good and they need them. A promotion would surely result in transfer.

From what we know, Davis has been a Major for at least ten years. Carter was merely a Captain when the show started, and has had three promotions in the same time period. Cam had two, John one, O'Neill three in about five years. They must really want Davis to stay where he is

Let's face it. They are all actors and no matter how friendly they become with each other, it's still just a job on set. Some people who have trouble separating the actors from the characters have trouble understanding that. I doubt any of them lie awake nights wishing things had turned out different on the show. And sometimes when fans approach them with comments about their characters and what did or did not happen, they just go along with it so the fans will be happy. Who wouldn't? We love Joe, though, for his honesty when it matters. And he still says he's pissed off at how Torri was treated.

Don't some of them lie awake thinking they've married the wrong person? It sounds like there are a handful of committed fans who think they do. Allegedly.

I'm sure the writers sat down in the conference room and had a long thoughtful discussion about all that and where they wanted the show to go and how the characters would fulfill their plan. Pretty sure, at least.

I'd put the house on it

Woolsey was great in his clumsiness in Return II and early on in S5 when the doors closed on him and he got lost etc. But then suddenly all the sharp edges were gone and we were feeling sorry for him because he lost his Yorkie in the divorce. So yeah.

That sort of thing was funny once, maybe twice. They went a bit overboard on it. Which I imagine would be easy to do - those little beats probably weren't something that got talked about in the writers room all that much because they aren't crucial to the plot.

So many shows do this with characters. I've always hated it. Like recently the ep on Criminal Minds

Spoiler:

when Garcia was all button down and going on missions. Then I breathed a huge sigh of relief that they put her back like she was.

The question with SGA is why didn't they get the big pic on Elizabeth and use the skills that they emphasized that she had back in SG-1 and in the pilot for SGA? Forever a mystery to me. We should have had a scene with her attempting to teach John Ancient way back in S1. Now wouldn't that have been fun?

Or for that matter, teaching anyone Wraith, given that she was the first person to understand it.

I agree. I can totally see Elizabeth wanting to get to know everyone that works for her. Even before the Expedition leaves, I can easily picture her getting together for a chat with everyone who's been chosen for the mission. I also think she'd want a say in who was going to join the expedition.



True, it was an absolute insult to see how easily Elizabeth was replaced. But I don't think comparing that to Caldwell is a good idea. Remember that Caldwell was an absolute a$$hole who tried to steal John's spot. Of course the Goa'uld was to blame for that, but back then they just thought it was him. After the Goa'uld was replaced, he was a nice guy and people easily accepted him.



ZOMG!!!! Would have loved to see that!!!!!!! Someone put this in a fic!!!! please!!!!!

i don't think Caldwell actively lobbied for the post. The SGC would've, and rightly so, decided that a Major wasn't qualified to be in a position of authority like that. They'd have tapped Caldwell, he'd have agreed. Also, they'd already removed Weir prior to that (replacing her with Everett). Caldwell wouldn't have been able to sway Landry, O'Neill, Hammond, and presumably the Chief of the Air Force, to put him in Sheppard's position, they'd have looked at a bunch of candidates.

In Conversion, there was an opportunity to take charge. If it hadn't have been him, it would've been Lorne *shrugs*

Hello...sorry to interrupt the discussions, but I have an SS6 question that is pressing.

What would the group like to call Nancy? Have we brought up discussion of her last name? I don't think we ever had it confirmed that she still went by Sheppard. So what would you guys like to do? Keep her Sheppard or create a new last name for her?

Hmmm? It was never confirmed that she was actually married to Greg Grant, so I guess we need to decide what to do about that first. She was referred to as Nancy Sheppard in the IMDB listing for that ep. *shrugs* I'm good with whatever the majority thinks. My personal opinion is that she was not married to him and was still going by Sheppard.

Yeah, I think she's been referred to as Nancy Sheppard on the blog of doom, but I may be wrong (quite possibly), but IMDB is usually pretty good.

Even if (it seems unlikely they did) she married Greg, it's quite possible at her age she'd keep her 'current' surname, at least for work purposes. She might be Mrs <insert Greg's last name here> to her friends and neighbours, but still Sheppard at work.

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!



It's been doing that to me as well. Like SR, I have to close my browser to clear it. Rather irritating.



Heh!

And yes, people can be promoted 'below the zone' as it's called, but you're right, there's got to be some stellar work and exceeding all requirements to get one.



There's that, too. In Sheppard's case, I think we can safely say he'd remain in Atlantis if promoted to full-bird Colonel. The kind of responsibilities he already has as commander of Atlantis's military forces probably ought to be under the purview of someone at that rank; after all, the original military commander (Sumner) was a Colonel, the one the SGC wanted to replace Sheppard with once Atlantis reconnected with Earth (Caldwell) was a Colonel, so... *shrugs*

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think anyone less than a Brigadier General should be in charge of the military side of things there. It's just too important a mission. The SGC runs a similar operation out of Cheyenne mountain, with off world teams and the like, and is headed by a two star general. Atlantis has only a Lt Colonel *scratches head* I know they have/have had a civilian leader, but surely they need more military 'grunt'. But I appear to be in the minority on that.

And they were Marine colonels at that. The Marines promote more slowly than other branches and because of their relatively low number there are fewer high ranking officers. Colonels in the Air Force and Army are a dime a dozen. LOL

I'd never thought about it until you said that, but are the majority of the expedition Marines? Ford, Lorne, Sumner, Everett, a good chunk of the s1 off-world teams, were all Marines. Shep was chosen for his gene, not his piloting ability or military branch.

[Anuna]

Hey guys - did you already put Kavanaugh into Slytherin? +Cause I can definitely see him there Also, who gets to be Voldemort?

[gateraid]

Hey guys - did you already put Kavanaugh into Slytherin? +Cause I can definitely see him there Also, who gets to be Voldemort?

Oh, now I know what you are all talking about Harry Potter, right?

[Anuna]

Well, sometimes if the divorce is mutual and there's not bad feelings (as it appeared between John and Nancy--awkward, but not hateful) then if the woman has been identified by that name professionally, she might not want to change it. For instance, Nancy being in Homeland security--if she'd started as Nancy Sheppard and that's how the majority of her contacts knew her, she may want to keep it for ease of the professional side of things. I have a co-worker who recently got married and so many people know her by her maiden name that she's not requested a change to it. She has hyphenated it in her email, but that's all.

Plus, it's absolutely jumping through hoops to legally change stuff and change stuff back.

I like the idea of sharing a name. But I think that's just a cultural difference.



I think I'd prefer them to not be married. For one thing, I don't think promoting sexual tension between John and Nancy while Nancy is married is agreeable. I'd rather give Nancy the benefit of the doubt that if she chooses to commit to Grant she'll stay that way, even if John was her former spouse and not all the tension has died away. But I'd like to paint the picture a little like there might have been a chance--had not Mayel been already tweaking John's interest and had Atlantis not gone back to the PG. I think I'd feel more comfortable about it if Nancy treated Grant like a significant other but not so much of one that she'd chosen to get remarried.

We may have a canon answer--SR mentioned IMDB lists her as Nancy Sheppard. How do the credits list on the DVD list her? Is she just "Nancy" or is she Nancy Sheppard?

Regarding sharing the name and keeping the husband's name even after a divorce. It's something I've been wondering a lot too, especially since I've started working with divorcing couples. Sometimes I feel some of these women who do keep ex husband's name are possibly trying to keep one last piece of the identity they had while they were married and loved. My country is pretty traditional about this and it's very unusual if a woman doesn't take husband's name at all (I kept my maiden name and added my husband's family name, which is why I have two last names now. Lot of young women here do that, but I don't think I've seen yet a case where a woman doesn't use the husband's name at all). Ending a marriage, even if it was mostly unhappy, is a hard thing to do, and most women I've seen at least try to hold onto that one little piece of something that either was happiness or at least reminded them of happiness. Maybe they have a feeling that not everything has been taken away from them. I can't be sure. I can't even imagine going through that and I can't honestly say what I'd do. I do know that I like sharing a name with my husband. I don't belong to him, but we do belong together.

As for Nancy, I'm okay with her being Nancy Sheppard. I think it will be interesting seeing how other people who haven't met her yet react to her, and her last name; and seeing John's reactions to that, but that's just one of the reasons why I prefer her keeping John's name. I think she'd keep it for professional reasons, but also, I can imagine her still having love for John, some kind of love. I don't think she'd walk over all the good times they shared and everything that was good in their marriage; so yeah, I think she'd keep his last name for sentimental reasons too. perhaps, the lesson they taught each other is something to keep and not to be forgotten and it goes along with that name? IDK, I don't know how best to explain it. Perhaps something along the lines of, it's good forgetting that you used to hate someone, but you shouldn't forget that you once loved someone? That kind of thing.

[Anuna]

Oh, now I know what you are all talking about Harry Potter, right?

WOOOOOT! Yes, that's right we're mashing up Potter-verse and SGA. Apparently. Don't look at me I've just fallen straight from the sky into the thread.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

It's up to you guys but it's not impossible she'd keep the name Sheppard even after getting remarried. It's probably less common than the alternatives but it's not unprecedented. I know people who've done that.

[Anuna]

It's up to you guys but it's not impossible she'd keep the name Sheppard even after getting remarried. It's probably less common than the alternatives but it's not unprecedented. I know people who've done that.

Heh, I've seen stranger things at work. So, yeah, agreed, it's up to us.

[Scary Kitty]

Don't some of them lie awake thinking they've married the wrong person? It sounds like there are a handful of committed fans who think they do. Allegedly.

*snorts*

Or for that matter, teaching anyone Wraith, given that she was the first person to understand it.

There's another one! Imagine Elizabeth teaching Teyla the Wraith language in preparation for Teyla's masquerade in "The Queen." That would've been awesome!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think anyone less than a Brigadier General should be in charge of the military side of things there. It's just too important a mission. The SGC runs a similar operation out of Cheyenne mountain, with off world teams and the like, and is headed by a two star general. Atlantis has only a Lt Colonel *scratches head* I know they have/have had a civilian leader, but surely they need more military 'grunt'. But I appear to be in the minority on that.

The importance of the mission is only one part of the equation; you're forgetting about the size of the force. In Season 1, the expedition only numbered about 200, most of whom were scientists, which went up to around 300-400 by the end of the series (probably around 150-200 military). That's on the low end of the size of force a Lt. Colonel or full-bird Colonel would be expected to command. There's a couple of charts that show it better than I can describe it; one on armies (which more or less also applies to the Marines), and one on air forces.

Remembering that the units in the Stargate program may be staffed to a minimum to avoid attracting attention from those who aren't supposed to know they exist, Stargate Command probably is around the size of a USAF Wing (and likely gets a two-star instead of a one-star because of its top secret nature); by comparison, Atlantis's military probably is only about the size of a USAF Squadron.

I'd never thought about it until you said that, but are the majority of the expedition Marines? Ford, Lorne, Sumner, Everett, a good chunk of the s1 off-world teams, were all Marines. Shep was chosen for his gene, not his piloting ability or military branch.

It sure looked like most of the US forces seen were Marines. I do recall seeing quite a few Air Force officers in the gateroom for Carson's funeral in Sunday, though.

[gateraid]

Simon.

It's the hair.

However, it looks MUCH better on Snape. LOL

Do you mean this hair?

Spoiler:

:simon: Elizabeth, I've met someone else




:elizabeth: Ah, I see. Oh well, no hard feelings? What's his name?

:simon: Him? I've met another woman!

:elizabeth: Hahahahaha, that's a good one!! Not with that hair you didn't. Which one are you, the pitcher or the catcher?

:simon: cries, runs away

:elizabeth: Catcher, definitely

[Scary Kitty]

Regarding sharing the name and keeping the husband's name even after a divorce. It's something I've been wondering a lot too, especially since I've started working with divorcing couples. Sometimes I feel some of these women who do keep ex husband's name are possibly trying to keep one last piece of the identity they had while they were married and loved. My country is pretty traditional about this and it's very unusual if a woman doesn't take husband's name at all (I kept my maiden name and added my husband's family name, which is why I have two last names now. Lot of young women here do that, but I don't think I've seen yet a case where a woman doesn't use the husband's name at all). Ending a marriage, even if it was mostly unhappy, is a hard thing to do, and most women I've seen at least try to hold onto that one little piece of something that either was happiness or at least reminded them of happiness. Maybe they have a feeling that not everything has been taken away from them. I can't be sure. I can't even imagine going through that and I can't honestly say what I'd do. I do know that I like sharing a name with my husband. I don't belong to him, but we do belong together.

As for Nancy, I'm okay with her being Nancy Sheppard. I think it will be interesting seeing how other people who haven't met her yet react to her, and her last name; and seeing John's reactions to that, but that's just one of the reasons why I prefer her keeping John's name. I think she'd keep it for professional reasons, but also, I can imagine her still having love for John, some kind of love. I don't think she'd walk over all the good times they shared and everything that was good in their marriage; so yeah, I think she'd keep his last name for sentimental reasons too. perhaps, the lesson they taught each other is something to keep and not to be forgotten and it goes along with that name? IDK, I don't know how best to explain it. Perhaps something along the lines of, it's good forgetting that you used to hate someone, but you shouldn't forget that you once loved someone? That kind of thing.

Yes, that's one of the big reasons I want to see Nancy keep the Sheppard name; it'll make John squirm.

And come to think of it, given the way that Nancy spoke of John's family, it sounds like she remained quite close to them even after the divorce. No one (aside from John) seemed to bat an eye that she was at Patrick's funeral. So I think it's very likely she would keep the Sheppard name, at least until she married again, and probably even afterward, at least on a professional level.

It's up to you guys but it's not impossible she'd keep the name Sheppard even after getting remarried. It's probably less common than the alternatives but it's not unprecedented. I know people who've done that.

And hey, we could always hyphenate.

[Scary Kitty]

Do you mean this hair?

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]28365[/ATTACH]

:simon: Elizabeth, I've met someone else


[ATTACH]28364[/ATTACH]

:elizabeth: Ah, I see. Oh well, no hard feelings? What's his name?

:simon: Him? I've met another woman!

:elizabeth: Hahahahaha, that's a good one!! Not with that hair you didn't. Which one are you, the pitcher or the catcher?

:simon: cries, runs away

:elizabeth: Catcher, definitely

*howls of laughter* Oh yeah, that's what we're talking about!

[Anuna]

Yes, that's one of the big reasons I want to see Nancy keep the Sheppard name; it'll make John squirm.

And come to think of it, given the way that Nancy spoke of John's family, it sounds like she remained quite close to them even after the divorce. No one (aside from John) seemed to bat an eye that she was at Patrick's funeral. So I think it's very likely she would keep the Sheppard name, at least until she married again, and probably even afterward, at least on a professional level.



And hey, we could always hyphenate.

Also, think of this - when people who know John, but haven't met Nancy get to know her, they will inevitably learn something about John too, especially when they see how Nancy is treating John. Perhaps we can draw interesting parallels between John7Nancy and John/Elizabeth dynamic?