Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

The watch has shared scenes with Sparky. It counts!



GUTTER SHIPPER!!!

And yeah, I had fun!!! Sounds like I missed alot!







Isn't that the whole premise of Stargate??? LOL



Nice job! Very descriptive! I have some friends that are Deaf and I know it's hard for them sometimes to write English, but being Deaf it makes you describe things in detail, which is great for storywriting! You're doing a good job!



*crying my eyes out*



Good suggestion, SR! You're gonna be gone til late October??? You still gonna be in touch or in cognito? And yes. We are horrible examples!!!



I agree, it seems John just wasn't himself after the events of early S4 ... Even if, according to TPTB, and I'm saying, we strongly disagree on this, they weren't in a relationship, Elizabeth was the person that had so much faith in him, even when she didn't know him ... and even when she knew about his black mark. Losing the person that has had your back for four years is always tough to take.

But when you lose your lover, your best friend, your everything, it makes you wanna take on a lot more suicide missions.

And it makes us count all the ways that we can keep her alive!

Anyhow, jumping back to something Anuna posted a while back, are we still coming up with all the possible scenarios why John and Elizabeth would pretend to be married???

Mine again: planet has Alpha Female system, top one being married females. John has to pretend to be married to Elizabeth cause she's on top.

*looks at writing pun then decides to leave it*

I won't promise to keep in touch but I'll try. We have WiFi on the ship so I'll probably check in on the "at sea" days. Otherwise I'll be on shore excursions seeing stuff. Or stuffing my face at the buffet.

[Anuna]

Does John have PTSD? Is his behavior consistent with someone who is mentally unstable? If so, what was the cause and how should it be treated?

As a trained mental health professional, I say no. He could have experienced some post stress reactions, which are normal occurrence, but from what we've seen in the show, there isn't substantial evidence to support this idea.

According to DSM IV, which is mental health Bible, these are the criteria for diagnosing PTSD:

Spoiler:

309.81 DSM-IV Criteria for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others (2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

(5) feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep
(2) irritability or outbursts of anger
(3) difficulty concentrating
(4) hypervigilance
(5) exaggerated startle response

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more

Specify if:
With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor

While John did witness a number of HUGE stressors, we never have seen him going through recurring traumatic experience. Maybe he was sleepless once or twice, but there is no canon evidence that it was due to traumatic experiences. While he did experience hallucinations, he did so either under influence (Phantoms, Remnants) or after head - trauma (Search and Rescue). He doesn't display signs of intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

John doesn't engage in persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma). If he did, he would never set his foot near the 'Gate.

he isn't unable to have loving feelings. He doesn't have memory problems, except under influence (Tabula Rasa). He doesn't show diminished interest to take part in important activities, or fun activities (Prodigal - car race). He doesn't have restricted range of affect, in fact we see him displaying all kinds of emotions, although he tends to be sad and toned down during seasons 4 and 5. However that doesn't equal PTSD.

Finally, I didn't notice signs of increased arousal that wasn't present before the trauma (outbursts of anger, insomnia, and rest of that stuff).

Bottom line, he is an average guy dealing with grief caused by loss. Things he feels do not interfere with his life or his duties, aka, there's no clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Hence, John doesn't have PTSD.

[Southern Red]

As a trained mental health professional, I say no. He could have experienced some post stress reactions, which are normal occurrence, but from what we've seen in the show, there isn't substantial evidence to support this idea.

According to DSM IV, which is mental health Bible, these are the criteria for diagnosing PTSD:

Spoiler:

309.81 DSM-IV Criteria for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others (2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur upon awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

(5) feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep
(2) irritability or outbursts of anger
(3) difficulty concentrating
(4) hypervigilance
(5) exaggerated startle response

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:
Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more

Specify if:
With Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor

While John did witness a number of HUGE stressors, we never have seen him going through recurring traumatic experience. Maybe he was sleepless once or twice, but there is no canon evidence that it was due to traumatic experiences. While he did experience hallucinations, he did so either under influence (Phantoms, Remnants) or after head - trauma (Search and Rescue). He doesn't display signs of intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

John doesn't engage in persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma). If he did, he would never set his foot near the 'Gate.

he isn't unable to have loving feelings. He doesn't have memory problems, except under influence (Tabula Rasa). He doesn't show diminished interest to take part in important activities, or fun activities (Prodigal - car race). He doesn't have restricted range of affect, in fact we see him displaying all kinds of emotions, although he tends to be sad and toned down during seasons 4 and 5. However that doesn't equal PTSD.

Finally, I didn't notice signs of increased arousal that wasn't present before the trauma (outbursts of anger, insomnia, and rest of that stuff).

Bottom line, he is an average guy dealing with grief caused by loss. Things he feels do not interfere with his life or his duties, aka, there's no clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Hence, John doesn't have PTSD.

Thank you for your professional diagnosis. Right on the money I'd say. And looking at #7, the number of times he talked about having kids someday negates that one.

Considering what John has been through since arriving in the Pegasus Galaxy, it would be surprising if he didn't have nightmares. But you're right. The intensity of his problems coping with his trauma is not indicative of someone with PTSD. He still functions normally in his job and still gets enjoyment out of life. A lot of his quirks are just personality. I'm willing to bet he's always taken on more than most people. The same deleted part of Remnants that was supposed to show his guilt about losing Elizabeth also would have brought in his mother. So his deep seated emotions go way back.

I also see even less evidence that whatever happened in Afghanistan caused PTSD. That stuff in Phantoms was alien-induced. S1-3 John was happy go lucky at times and much much lighter in mood than S4-5 John. So ITA. No PTSD. Just a normal man coping with life.

[Anuna]

Thank you for your professional diagnosis. Right on the money I'd say. And looking at #7, the number of times he talked about having kids someday negates that one.

Considering what John has been through since arriving in the Pegasus Galaxy, it would be surprising if he didn't have nightmares. But you're right. The intensity of his problems coping with his trauma is not indicative of someone with PTSD. He still functions normally in his job and still gets enjoyment out of life. A lot of his quirks are just personality. I'm willing to bet he's always taken on more than most people. The same deleted part of Remnants that was supposed to show his guilt about losing Elizabeth also would have brought in his mother. So his deep seated emotions go way back.

I also see even less evidence that whatever happened in Afghanistan caused PTSD. That stuff in Phantoms was alien-induced. S1-3 John was happy go lucky at times and much much lighter in mood than S4-5 John. So ITA. No PTSD. Just a normal man coping with life.

If he got PTSD in Afghanistan I highly doubt nobody around him would catch that going on. The whole point of PTSD is that someone experiences an event that is so incredibly out of the range of normal, something that turns their world upside down, something they can't cope with. PTSD symptoms are just a way of mind and body dealing with that jarring experience that person simply can't fit into their psychological frame of reference. He or she tries to froget, but the mind rebels, because something so huge can't be forgotten. the more you try to repress it, and push it in the back, the more it backfires - flashbacks, nightmares, hallucinations, intense and impulsive reactions to loud sounds, or anything that reminds this person of the trauma he or she has been through.

Finally, PTSD disrupts the normal course of life and activity. john simply wouldn't be able to do his job of a soldier if he had PTSD. He wouldn't even set his foot in Atlantis.

What John does is coping, he has several coping mechanisms that work for him, because as troubled as he is, he is still balanced and able to enjoy his life, and that's it.

[Southern Red]

If he got PTSD in Afghanistan I highly doubt nobody around him would catch that going on. The whole point of PTSD is that someone experiences an event that is so incredibly out of the range of normal, something that turns their world upside down, something they can't cope with. PTSD symptoms are just a way of mind and body dealing with that jarring experience that person simply can't fit into their psychological frame of reference. He or she tries to froget, but the mind rebels, because something so huge can't be forgotten. the more you try to repress it, and push it in the back, the more it backfires - flashbacks, nightmares, hallucinations, intense and impulsive reactions to loud sounds, or anything that reminds this person of the trauma he or she has been through.

Finally, PTSD disrupts the normal course of life and activity. john simply wouldn't be able to do his job of a soldier if he had PTSD. He wouldn't even set his foot in Atlantis.

What John does is coping, he has several coping mechanisms that work for him, because as troubled as he is, he is still balanced and able to enjoy his life, and that's it.

That's it indeed.

[Erin87]

And since I was having a hard time getting to sleep, I have an early morning treat.

No new fics yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhdkKnjNpV8

Enjoy, I'll be back later on in the day after work!

Nice! I've been wanting someone to make a Sparky vid to that song.

Reporting in from the Stargate live auction:

THE SPARKY MINT JAR IS MINE!!!!!!!

Today is a good day for Sparky. Hahahahahaha!

OMG SQUEEEEEE!!!!!! That is amazingly ten thousand ways of awesome! (yes, I'm aware that statement made no sense gramatically, but I'm too excited to care )

And Yaaaay Kris for getting War and Peace!!!! *more squeeing*

I feel a great sense of relief that Sparkies got those items.

*beams* *hugs*

The other Sparky story is "Reinventing Destiny" by bigdamnxenafan and seramercury. I made art for it: click here.

Those are beautiful!! I especially love the first one.

Congrats! Were you freaking out like I was when they started having technical difficulties the lot before the Weir stuff came up? OMG. My screen still wasn't right when they did Sedge's picture.



Three - I got Elizabeth's pocket watch. Well, it's more Elizabeth than Sparky, but that's okay.

Awesome!

*sneaks in* *looks around*
hello?

Hi drew!! Long time no see.


And eee, Kris on the latest Missing Moment! howaretheygoingtofixit?!howaretheygoingtofixit?! I eagerly await the next installment.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday! And happy belated birthday to our very own Eri13! (I can't believe I forgot to post bday wishes yesterday!)

And I'm sorry Georgia lost this weekend. *hugs*

Congrats!!!!!!!!! Another win for Sparky!

Awesome you guys! (Kris, somehow the forum refused me the right to multi-quote your post, too, so I'm wrapping you into this). I'm so excited that you all got the real Sparky goods!

OMG SQUEEEEEE!!!!!! That is amazingly ten thousand ways of awesome! (yes, I'm aware that statement made no sense gramatically, but I'm too excited to care )

And Yaaaay Kris for getting War and Peace!!!! *more squeeing*

I feel a great sense of relief that Sparkies got those items.

Thanks for the congratulations, everyone! And I agree, Erin; it would've felt so wrong if those items hadn't stayed in The Sparky Family.

I recall when I saw this episode for the first time, I really liked it. Mostly because it finally focused on Sheppard's internal struggle in explicit detail. Even if it was the B-Plot, (which should haven been switched around with the A plot) this was probably the first and ultimately only episode that seemed to actually talk about the fact that John is on something of a downward spiral stemming from the fact that he couldn't save the people he cared about. It was one episode that I thought was probably very heavily referencing Elizabeth (and I guess also all those other guys that he was crushed that he couldn't save). And then it was not until later that I found out later that there was actually a mention of her by name that as cut from the episode. But even without knowing about it, I made that connection.

A lot of non-shippers made that connection as well. There's just no way to deny that there was a huge Sparky bomb in Remnants.

What got me most about this episode in retrospect though, was the fact that because it's an extremely character driven episode, it feels very much like an episode that was part of an arc. More than most in fact. And despite the fact that not a lot happens in the grand scheme of things (like regarding the wraith and so forth) it still feels like it's addressing something of importance (perhaps more important than anything else really), the character's personal stories. The AI interacted with Woolsey Rodney and John all in a very personal way, and it seemed like it was an episode that felt like it was supposed to be something of an epiphany for John. Possibly to confront his personal demons eventually ater down the road. Which again kind of brings me back to the feeling that Season 5 felt like it was building for something bigger and grander in the future or something.

Anyway, the fact that the actually drew attention to that, especially with Sheppard in particular, just seems a lot like they were actually going to go somewhere with the concept. As it was he last season, it turns out they never did. If the show hadn't been canceled maybe they would have. I know it seems so often like they never would, but I guess you never know.

I guess it's up to the fans how it take it all now, really. Whether in fanficton writing or otherwise.

You know, that's an observation I hadn't really thought of. It does seem like it's the beginning of something more down the road for Sheppard. Well, there may be no telling if or what TPTW might have done with it, but we know what we'll be doing with it in Atlantis Rising! Poor, poor John.

Speaking of which I really gotta keep working on mine. It's too tempting to take breaks, which then are probably a little too long. *sigh*

Ooooh, fic? We'd love to see it when it's done!

The auction was fascinating to watch. Maybe because I wasn't directly involved in it I was a little more objective. But did it make anybody else feel very sad. For the first time since the show ended, I got the feeling that it's really over. I know JM and others have said they could easily rebuild the sets and do a movie but I don't see how that's going to be possible with everything down to the floor tiles being sold. How much did they get for the SGA gate, BTW?

It definitely made me feel sad. Given MGM's financial situation right now, and now we're going to have to tack on the cost of rebuilding sets, I doubt the movie's ever going get made. Guess they should've accepted that deal JoeF was working on with those investors in the UK...

As for the Atlantis gate, they had to cut it apart to get it off the sound stage, so they sold three segments of it; the set department finished off the cut segments so they're all nice and neat and can light up. I believe they went for about $5,000 each.

I'm glad you posted this because I feel the same way. I thought John got extremely shortchanged in S5. Even more the other 4 seasons. I know this was probably from behind the scenes situations. JF alluded to there being problems with him in Chicago. It all boils down to unprofessional writers who let their personal feelings influence how they were writing their show. The hero should have been the hero and should have been #1 always when writing arcs. But we all know they did not consider Sheppard their #1.

I think we're lucky we got as much as we did on him and that's mostly thanks to Joe's persistence. In relation to your assessment of Remnants and John's state of mind I have a question for everyone.

Does John have PTSD? Is his behavior consistent with someone who is mentally unstable? If so, what was the cause and how should it be treated?

Heck, I think everybody (outside of TPTW) thinks that Sheppard got shortchanged. Thank goodness for Joe's persistence in giving as much to Sheppard as he could in spite of others trying to diminish him.

I really don't have anything to contribute to the PTSD discussion except to say that I am so glad we have such a diverse group of people here whose brains we can pick for expert opinions on a variety of subjects. Anuna, you've got John nailed, and you of all people definitely should be able to make a professional assessment of what's going on in his head. It's a very fascinating read; I'm gonna have to sticky it for my work with John in SGA Rising. Speaking of SGA Rising and psychology, I'm going to have to pick your brain for Elizabeth later in the season, if you're up for it.

I won't promise to keep in touch but I'll try. We have WiFi on the ship so I'll probably check in on the "at sea" days. Otherwise I'll be on shore excursions seeing stuff. Or stuffing my face at the buffet.

*cracks up*

[ShipperWriter]

Nice! I've been wanting someone to make a Sparky vid to that song.

Thanks!!!

So I just found that I have a bunch of unmarked SGA DVDs with recorded eppys on them. "Before I Sleep". "This Mortal Coil". My vid bunny is getting restless!!!

And I have never cried and laughed so closely together as I did with TMC. Wow.

[Eri13]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday! And happy belated birthday to our very own Eri13! (I can't believe I forgot to post bday wishes yesterday!)

And I'm sorry Georgia lost this weekend. *hugs*

Thanks for the congratulations, everyone! And I agree, Erin; it would've felt so wrong if those items hadn't stayed in The Sparky Family.

A lot of non-shippers made that connection as well. There's just no way to deny that there was a huge Sparky bomb in Remnants.

You know, that's an observation I hadn't really thought of. It does seem like it's the beginning of something more down the road for Sheppard. Well, there may be no telling if or what TPTW might have done with it, but we know what we'll be doing with it in Atlantis Rising! Poor, poor John.

Ooooh, fic? We'd love to see it when it's done!

It definitely made me feel sad. Given MGM's financial situation right now, and now we're going to have to tack on the cost of rebuilding sets, I doubt the movie's ever going get made. Guess they should've accepted that deal JoeF was working on with those investors in the UK...

As for the Atlantis gate, they had to cut it apart to get it off the sound stage, so they sold three segments of it; the set department finished off the cut segments so they're all nice and neat and can light up. I believe they went for about $5,000 each.

Heck, I think everybody (outside of TPTW) thinks that Sheppard got shortchanged. Thank goodness for Joe's persistence in giving as much to Sheppard as he could in spite of others trying to diminish him.

I really don't have anything to contribute to the PTSD discussion except to say that I am so glad we have such a diverse group of people here whose brains we can pick for expert opinions on a variety of subjects. Anuna, you've got John nailed, and you of all people definitely should be able to make a professional assessment of what's going on in his head. It's a very fascinating read; I'm gonna have to sticky it for my work with John in SGA Rising. Speaking of SGA Rising and psychology, I'm going to have to pick your brain for Elizabeth later in the season, if you're up for it.

*cracks up*

Georgia? What's Georgia? A state in the Union, right? Former home of convicts? *thumbs up* *HEAD desk*

Thanks for the B-day wishes! Thank you all who sent them in various forms over the weekend! SK, I replied to your email and will be sending you another one to show you my outline.

[Southern Red]

Georgia? What's Georgia? A state in the Union, right? Former home of convicts? *thumbs up* *HEAD desk*

Thanks for the B-day wishes! Thank you all who sent them in various forms over the weekend! SK, I replied to your email and will be sending you another one to show you my outline.

Oh dear. I only gave up football for a week. LOL I get to miss VT/NC State next week. Probably just as well. My family lives in Raleigh and I won't have to divide my loyalties.

Sorry, OT. Ignore us. But question? Do you European football fans cheer for your hometown team or do you pick a team for other reasons?

[ShipperWriter]

I won't promise to keep in touch but I'll try. We have WiFi on the ship so I'll probably check in on the "at sea" days. Otherwise I'll be on shore excursions seeing stuff. Or stuffing my face at the buffet.

Nice. Have fun!

[Zangetsu-san]

Yay! I just noticed your a fellow Pens fan! Now I know have somebody to talk hockey with. I think there are one or two other hockey fans here but I forget.

Yup I follow Pens over the years, Im so excited that Pens won 3 games so far! Yeah I don't mind to talk about hockey

Okay, you've got the basic facts but need work on your sentence structure and grammar. I wish I had time to help you but am going on vacation this Wednesday until late October. I would suggest getting a basic English grammar book and start with writing complete sentences. Here is one simple but excellent source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/word...orksheet.shtml Good luck and show me what you've done when I get back. Homework, OMG! Oh and I realized a lot of us *points to self* don't help by writing here in incomplete sentences. Don't use anything you read on a forum as a good example of English sentence structure. Every sentence must have a subject and verb. We are really bad examples. What? You know we are.

I figured that my English writing sucks after all, I don't think that you guys are bad example on English Sentence structure at all. So thanks for the suggestion, I'll check that link out today to see what it is, I might have to find the book for that some where I'm trying not to buy more of books because I'm trying to save up money for penguins hockey game with my family next year in spring.

[Southern Red]

Yup I follow Pens over the years, Im so excited that Pens won 3 games so far! Yeah I don't mind to talk about hockey

I figured that my English writing sucks after all, I don't think that you guys are bad example on English Sentence structure at all. So thanks for the suggestion, I'll check that link out today to see what it is, I might have to find the book for that some where I'm trying not to buy more of books because I'm trying to save up money for penguins hockey game with my family next year in spring.

Have fun with it. Writing is hard but your ideas are good so just keep at it.

OT:

Spoiler:

I just got a call from my son from India. Now that is long distance. LOL

[Anuna]

Regarding the Remnants discussion - I agree with Infinite Possibilities about remnants being a possible epiphany moment for John. I may have to re watch that, keeping the points you brought up firmly in mind, because my second episode of Season six should be dealing with John in a similar but not quite same situation. Perhaps I could use remnants as the buildup for Gravity, and bring John to that important personal epiphany in that episode. *nods* Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! You gave me some important food for thought.

Now, SK, you can pick my brain at any time, I'm up to quality discussion! Just bring it on, either in e mail or here or wherever you please!

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Oh dear. I only gave up football for a week. LOL I get to miss VT/NC State next week. Probably just as well. My family lives in Raleigh and I won't have to divide my loyalties.

Sorry, OT. Ignore us. But question? Do you European football fans cheer for your hometown team or do you pick a team for other reasons?

Well, personally I'm not really from any country with a good soccer team and so I don't really have any hometown teams either. I guess I could support the "Montreal Impact" but... I don't really care about North American club teams. Usually I pick my favorite teams based on how much I enjoy watching the team play. Which isn't exactly the best way because often players will transfer around, but it's really the only objective way I can think of. I guess it's kind of sad sometimes that I don't have any sort of "inherent favorite teams," but I can still really get behind whichever one I picked.

Funnily enough this often leads me to become fans of one team and also their arch rivals. I've only been following the sport at this level since 2003, but in that time I've become a big fan of FC Barcelona for example, especially in the last few years. But when I first started out I used to be a big fan Real Madrid, and those two teams have one of the most heated rivalries in all of sports. It's mostly rooted in all the cultural tensions in Spanish history. Since I don't really have any personal stake in that, all I can base my opinions on is "Well, those players are very good, but then so are those ones." Sometimes it feels a little awkward. Maybe "sporting blood feuds" aren't meant to be approached reasonably

Though, usually I try to pick a team for a season and stick by it whether they win or lose it.

Perhaps one of the Europeans here can be more enlightening. Anyone who comes from or close to a big city will probably have a football futboll team to call their hometown team. But since often those cities will have at least 2 teams who will invariably be arch rivals, I'm not 100% sure exactly how people end up picking. I guess it's different demographics of a particular city will usually be part of one traditional fanbase or the other.