Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

*ebil lawyer side about to come out* ---------->about the e-reader thing...

While I think what we're doing so far is safely considered 'fandom just for fun', I think if we tread into putting cover art of licensed images we don't have the right to on stuff that might be broadcast across official e-readers like a Kindle or a iPad might be pushing the envelop as far as the copyright is concerned. Stuff we're doing now, like wallpapers, icons, sigs, etc is sort of mainstream, and though it's all infringement, it's sort of par for the course in terms of web stuff and fandom.

But e-readers are a little bit of a step above the traditional fansites, and because the bulk of their product is sold-for-profit stuff, I'm leery about attaching images or anything to them. Though our stuff would still be free, I'm afraid it might be crossing over that fine copyright line...

Thanks for keeping us legal. We can still do lots of art for each episode we publish on our website. The fanfic gray areas get really hazy sometimes.

[Eri13]

Thanks for keeping us legal. We can still do lots of art for each episode we publish on our website. The fanfic gray areas get really hazy sometimes.

Yeah, I just don't want to do something that might get us unnecessarily noticed or amount to a 'cease-and-desist' on things. We're having too much fun.

[Southern Red]

Yeah, I just don't want to do something that might get us unnecessarily noticed or amount to a 'cease-and-desist' on things. We're having too much fun.

That's the truth. And we count on you to keep us at least partly within the law. But if they close us down they have to close down all the fanfic sites and that would take a lifetime. LOL

[Scary Kitty]

*ebil lawyer side about to come out* ---------->about the e-reader thing...

While I think what we're doing so far is safely considered 'fandom just for fun', I think if we tread into putting cover art of licensed images we don't have the right to on stuff that might be broadcast across official e-readers like a Kindle or a iPad might be pushing the envelop as far as the copyright is concerned. Stuff we're doing now, like wallpapers, icons, sigs, etc is sort of mainstream, and though it's all infringement, it's sort of par for the course in terms of web stuff and fandom.

But e-readers are a little bit of a step above the traditional fansites, and because the bulk of their product is sold-for-profit stuff, I'm leery about attaching images or anything to them. Though our stuff would still be free, I'm afraid it might be crossing over that fine copyright line...

Darn. It would be nice to have something more than just a generic gray box icon for each story, though, especially since sometimes titles can get kind of cut off in reader menus (at least, they do on my iPod touch).

Thanks for keeping us legal. We can still do lots of art for each episode we publish on our website. The fanfic gray areas get really hazy sometimes.

And hey, if anyone in the audience wants to adapt some of the episodic artwork from the website as custom covers for their ebook copies for their own personal use, well, that's up to them.

[Anuna]

Yeah, I just don't want to do something that might get us unnecessarily noticed or amount to a 'cease-and-desist' on things. We're having too much fun.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

Eri, I could use a "legal advice" of sorts for a fic I have in mind. Can I PM you with the details?

[Eri13]

Darn. It would be nice to have something more than just a generic gray box icon for each story, though, especially since sometimes titles can get kind of cut off in reader menus (at least, they do on my iPod touch).

And hey, if anyone in the audience wants to adapt some of the episodic artwork from the website as custom covers for their ebook copies for their own personal use, well, that's up to them.

Well, so long as what you do isn't using licensed anything (fonts, pics, etc) you could technically create a piece of art as filler. Like, perhaps we redesign the Atlantis badge patch to signify they're permanently in Pegasus--someone redraw the Pegasus Horse and make it spacey or gate-looking (just don't copy something directly). Or, we could come up with our own SS6 icon or AR:V icon and put the titles of the episodes in a new font as a part of it. At least it's better than a gray box.

[Eri13]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

Eri, I could use a "legal advice" of sorts for a fic I have in mind. Can I PM you with the details?

Of course! I can't technically give 'advice' but I can let you know what I know.

[KrisRussel]

And that reminds me... we had discussed the possibility of making Atlantis Rising episodes available in ebook reader formats, and I was thinking it'd be nice to have cover artwork for each of them. I wonder if we could have some sort of basic design template that would be consistent for all the covers, with added images appropriate to each story. Kind of like how Big Finish did the covers for their SG-1 and Atlantis audio dramas, perhaps. What are everyone's thoughts?

Well, we were planning on changing the website for every episode, including the banner. So, why not do the same for the downloadable "books". I like that idea.

*ebil lawyer side about to come out* ---------->about the e-reader thing...

While I think what we're doing so far is safely considered 'fandom just for fun', I think if we tread into putting cover art of licensed images we don't have the right to on stuff that might be broadcast across official e-readers like a Kindle or a iPad might be pushing the envelop as far as the copyright is concerned. Stuff we're doing now, like wallpapers, icons, sigs, etc is sort of mainstream, and though it's all infringement, it's sort of par for the course in terms of web stuff and fandom.

But e-readers are a little bit of a step above the traditional fansites, and because the bulk of their product is sold-for-profit stuff, I'm leery about attaching images or anything to them. Though our stuff would still be free, I'm afraid it might be crossing over that fine copyright line...

I did my thesis on licensing and stuff. It was mostly about music and remixing, but fanart is also considering remixing.
As long as we do everything non-commercially (that includes not getting money from adds on the website), they will leave us alone. The minute we make a single cent, they can come after us. We are remixing the things they put online. We are not downloading episodes illegally nor are we downloading their music illegally. We are only using the photos and pictures and icons they put online, free for download and we are reusing them for FREE fanart. It is allowed.
So, no worries. All we have to do is put up our usual disclaimer and they will leave us alone.
Trust me on this. I spend months researching it.

[Scary Kitty]

Well, so long as what you do isn't using licensed anything (fonts, pics, etc) you could technically create a piece of art as filler. Like, perhaps we redesign the Atlantis badge patch to signify they're permanently in Pegasus--someone redraw the Pegasus Horse and make it spacey or gate-looking (just don't copy something directly). Or, we could come up with our own SS6 icon or AR:V icon and put the titles of the episodes in a new font as a part of it. At least it's better than a gray box.

Redesign of the Atlantis patch... hmm... eliminate the Earth point-of-origin symbol in the word 'Atlantis' and instead of having the Pegasus leaping over a gate chevron, it's leaping over a profile of the Atlantis city skyline. Something to keep in mind for Season 7.

Of course, that'll probably be too detailed for a tiny little icon on an ebook reader. Oooh, what about a six-pointed snowflake (since Atlantis looks rather like a snowflake when viewed from above) in aqua blue (color of the Pegasus gate chevrons) over a black background or a starfield? Maybe with the episode number to distinguish between each story? *bounces*

[Southern Red]

Redesign of the Atlantis patch... hmm... eliminate the Earth point-of-origin symbol in the word 'Atlantis' and instead of having the Pegasus leaping over a gate chevron, it's leaping over a profile of the Atlantis city skyline. Something to keep in mind for Season 7.

Of course, that'll probably be too detailed for a tiny little icon on an ebook reader. Oooh, what about a six-pointed snowflake (since Atlantis looks rather like a snowflake when viewed from above) in aqua blue (color of the Pegasus gate chevrons) over a black background or a starfield? Maybe with the episode number to distinguish between each story? *bounces*

I like the snowflake. Something simple.

[Scary Kitty]

I like the snowflake. Something simple.

That was exactly my thought. Something that would be easy to render in multiple formats and sizes and still be recognizable.

[Eri13]

Well, we were planning on changing the website for every episode, including the banner. So, why not do the same for the downloadable "books". I like that idea.

I did my thesis on licensing and stuff. It was mostly about music and remixing, but fanart is also considering remixing.
As long as we do everything non-commercially (that includes not getting money from adds on the website), they will leave us alone. The minute we make a single cent, they can come after us. We are remixing the things they put online. We are not downloading episodes illegally nor are we downloading their music illegally. We are only using the photos and pictures and icons they put online, free for download and we are reusing them for FREE fanart. It is allowed.
So, no worries. All we have to do is put up our usual disclaimer and they will leave us alone.
Trust me on this. I spend months researching it.

Unless we have the rights granted us by MGM or the other license holders, using the images posted online in any art is copyright infringement in the States. I believe that would be the applicable law since the servers we host stuff on are based in the states. Though the pictures may be posted and re-posted, including in places where there is no cost to download, and while it is common practice to allow fans to use them for artwork that is non-profit, it is still infringement.

Because so few companies have ever gone after enforcing the licensing rights to things like images (and licensed characters, as in fanfiction), you're right, they 99% of the time won't look to prosecute. That doesn't mean they can't, or won't if something catches their eye. In this case, the use of the images on an e-reader where they can be seen by others (and making a sort of implication that we're somehow connected to the series by using official images to promote our work) may be a red flag for MGM & the other license holders to say 'whoa, wait a minute--that's going too far'.

I promise I know what I'm talking about--I have a law degree from a school in the States with a focus in copyright and entertainment properties. I spent 3 years researching the law on this stuff. Most people who assume entertainment companies won't go after them for things are correct, they are probably not going to get noticed, especially as the fair use exception lists 'not-for-profit' as a major defense against infringement. But that doesn't mean that it's not breaking the law or that, someday, they might put their foot down and enforce their rights where they feel fans are pushing the envelop.

[KrisRussel]

Unless we have the rights granted us by MGM or the other license holders, using the images posted online in any art is copyright infringement in the States. I believe that would be the applicable law since the servers we host stuff on are based in the states. Though the pictures may be posted and re-posted, including in places where there is no cost to download, and while it is common practice to allow fans to use them for artwork that is non-profit, it is still infringement.

Because so few companies have ever gone after enforcing the licensing rights to things like images (and licensed characters, as in fanfiction), you're right, they 99% of the time won't look to prosecute. That doesn't mean they can't, or won't if something catches their eye. In this case, the use of the images on an e-reader where they can be seen by others (and making a sort of implication that we're somehow connected to the series by using official images to promote our work) may be a red flag for MGM & the other license holders to say 'whoa, wait a minute--that's going too far'.

I promise I know what I'm talking about--I have a law degree from a school in the States with a focus in copyright and entertainment properties. I spent 3 years researching the law on this stuff. Most people who assume entertainment companies won't go after them for things are correct, they are probably not going to get noticed, especially as the fair use exception lists 'not-for-profit' as a major defense against infringement. But that doesn't mean that it's not breaking the law or that, someday, they might put their foot down and enforce their rights where they feel fans are pushing the envelop.

I still don't see the problem. Because what's the difference between someone, on the subway or train for example, opening sgarising.com and reading our stories (with official graphics) or someone opening a downloaded e-reader file or Word file for that matter? And what if we don't put e-reader files online and the people who really like the stories download them and put them on their e-readers?

At Shore Leave there were dealers selling printed fanfics (with official photos on the cover). If the studios leave them alone, I really don't see the problem for us when we're putting the stories online as downloadable e-reader files even if the cover is made from official photos.

Again: I really do not see the problem. It's all for free, it's all for fun and we put a disclaimer on everything we put out there.

Eventually the studio will notice us anyway because we really are not keeping quiet about it and we're doing everything in a very professional matter. It won't matter what kind of photos or graphics we use or how we make the stories available or downloadable.
As long as they know we're not making a cent out of it and we always refer to them in our disclaimer, they'll be happy and they'll leave us alone.

SK, I really like the snowflake idea!!

[Eri13]

I still don't see the problem. Because what's the difference between someone, on the subway or train for example, opening sgarising.com and reading our stories (with official graphics) or someone opening a downloaded e-reader file or Word file for that matter? And what if we don't put e-reader files online and the people who really like the stories download them and put them on their e-readers?

At Shore Leave there were dealers selling printed fanfics (with official photos on the cover). If the studios leave them alone, I really don't see the problem for us when we're putting the stories online as downloadable e-reader files even if the cover is made from official photos.

Again: I really do not see the problem. It's all for free, it's all for fun and we put a disclaimer on everything we put out there.

Eventually the studio will notice us anyway because we really are not keeping quiet about it and we're doing everything in a very professional matter. It won't matter what kind of photos or graphics we use or how we make the stories available or downloadable.
As long as they know we're not making a cent out of it and we always refer to them in our disclaimer, they'll be happy and they'll leave us alone.

SK, I really like the snowflake idea!!

The problem is that it's illegal, even if we're all being illegal together. Disclaimers are nice but they don't protect you. It's kinda like saying that everybody speeds. Yes, pretty much everyone who drives speeds at one point or another and it's never a problem--until you get caught. You can't argue 'well, everyone else is speeding' to a cop. You have to pay the fine.

The poor girl who was the target for the music downloading case, and got sued by the major record companies, was the example amid hundreds of thousands of people who illegally downloaded music and never got caught, sued or sent notices. She was the example they used to get everyone else to stop doing it and she got laid with a hefty fine for it.

And while we may never, ever hear from anyone about anything we do--and I hope that's the case!--for me it's just better to be safe than sorry. E-books are a relatively new medium in the web world and being that they sell stuff for profit, it just seems prudent to me to be cautious.

[Scary Kitty]

The problem is that it's illegal, even if we're all being illegal together. Disclaimers are nice but they don't protect you. It's kinda like saying that everybody speeds. Yes, pretty much everyone who drives speeds at one point or another and it's never a problem--until you get caught. You can't argue 'well, everyone else is speeding' to a cop. You have to pay the fine.

The poor girl who was the target for the music downloading case, and got sued by the major record companies, was the example amid hundreds of thousands of people who illegally downloaded music and never got caught, sued or sent notices. She was the example they used to get everyone else to stop doing it and she got laid with a hefty fine for it.

And while we may never, ever hear from anyone about anything we do--and I hope that's the case!--for me it's just better to be safe than sorry. E-books are a relatively new medium in the web world and being that they sell stuff for profit, it just seems prudent to me to be cautious.

Agreed. And since we do have an alternate option on the table now, we can move forward with less of a potential target on our backs.