Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

I hope this can be useful to you writers, some timelines I found over the Internet:
http://www.stargatehandbook.org/sga/timelinemain.html
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
http://scifi-timeline.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

And this is a site with a sort of Atlantis city map:
http://stargatehub.com/sgawidget/

Unfortunately this site, which had the most detailed maps:
http://atlantis-project.webs.com/Index.html
has many dead links except for the tower.

Hope these links can be of any use to you

I've looked over a lot of timelines, and most of them (including the one here at GW) are not really detailed. Most of them are pretty much a list of what happened in a given year, with little to no information to narrow events down to a specific date or window of possible dates. The Stargate Handbook and Scifi Timeline sites are a little better in that regard, but it appears that even they seem to be fixing dates according to when the episodes actually aired, which is not always accurate.

A very notable case in point: Rising, Atlantis's pilot episode. It originally aired in July of 2004, so most people assume that's when it took place. Wrong! Remember all those lovely scenes of Sheppard flying O'Neill to the Ancient outpost in Antarctica? And it was all bright and sunny out? Antarctica is in the Southern Hemisphere, which has its seasons in reverse of up here in the Northern Hemisphere. July is summer for us, but it's winter down there, and as close to the South Pole as they were, they'd be in 24 hours of night! So there's no way Rising could happen in July; because the SG-1 episodes leading up to Rising (basically, from Season 7's Inauguration through Season 8's New Order) have to take place in early 2004, and the window for flights to Antarctica to get Weir, Daniel Jackson, and every one else in Rising down there closes in late February, so Rising probably can't take place until about October 2004 at the earliest.

Yeah, I've done a lot of research into this.

That widget is very, very interesting; I see myself doing lots of print screens to put together a full map in my future. There's some neat little spots to click on; most of them just go to behind-the-scenes videos, but there's one that gives a blueprint of the gateroom set (too bad they didn't do more blueprints of other sets!).

I've had the Atlantis Project site bookmarked for about a year now; I don't think it was ever finished, that's why there's all the broken links.

Speaking of needing alcohol, wait until you read your PM's.

Read it. Gagged and puked. Honestly, I think watching SGU will be far more pleasant in comparison.

Anyway, wine tasting. I'm on it. I'll bring several bottles of the 2005 Octagon wine from Virginia's own Barboursville Vineyards. This is the best red wine VA makes and IMHO is on par with any much more expensive I've ever had. Including Opus One. Octagon is a proprietary blend driven by Merlot, with elements of Reserve Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon and Petit Verdot. It has a dark, rich garnet color with an intense aroma of plum, cassis, coffee and berries woven together in barrel for a phenomenally full and silky palate. Tannins are resplendent and graceful. If you like a good muscular red, you will love this.

We'll also have the Veritas Viognier which is a medium-full-bodied, pale golden wine, produces an elusive, almost tantalizing bouquet of apricots, peaches and white flowers. The first impression is an uplifting fruit-filled rush that tastes of ripe peaches, honey, fresh orange peel and lychee fruit. This is one of our favorite VA whites and we love to visit the vineyard to watch the sunset over the Blue Ridge with a glass of their wine.

For those who don't drink but want to enjoy the tasting I'll throw in a case of another Virginia product: Alpenglow, our sparkling cider. It's refreshing and delicious and not too sweet.

Oh, yum!

I'll be bringing a couple of my faves:
A Petite Syrah from Parducci in California's Mendocino Valley (from the website: Dark ruby in color with aromas of cherry, blackberry, mint, and chocolate, this big red's got spicy, dark fruit flavors and supple tannins.) It'll be paired with Kobe beef sliders on toasted garlic-herb ciabatta.

And Yalumba Viognier from Australia's Eden Valley (the 2008 vintage offers apricot, spice, lychee and orange blossom notes). It'll be paired with morsels of macadamia-crusted tilapia on jasmine coconut rice with a mango salsa.

Sounds like that Alpenglow sparkling cider will go great with both!

[Scary Kitty]

Having a full understanding of the series is so nice. I think I have a plotline for Episode 3--tell me what y'all think.

At the end of EATG, we're left hanging with whether John made good on his threat to kill Todd. I say he didn't, Todd's still around.

Spoiler:

When we end the Series 6 two-part opener, Atlantis will be back in Pegasus. When they get there, they will go to New New Athos so Teyla can find her people.

In episode 3, we get there and Teyla discovers that many of her people are missing, and the ones left will NOT want her back as leader. The reason is they felt she abandoned them (having been on Earth for anywhere from 6 months to a year without word to them) and while she was gone the Wraith came and took some of them.

What the Atlantis group finds out is that the Wraith have started building camps to keep prisoners for experimentation of potential cures for the Hoffan drug. This is similar to what was hinted at in Outsiders, and also shows what the Wraith were doing with the refugees. Plague survivors are kept and tested on.

The Athosians have been attacked because of their connections to Atlantis, for revenge, etc. Teyla is desperate to find them but the remaining Athosians won't listen to her and Atlantis has no idea where to start. In a twist, Kanaan is able to mediate between Atlantis and Athos.

Todd, however, proposes that he knows of a number of potential 'sites' where the camps could be, that he can worm his way back into his faction of the Wraith and that if John lets him go, he'll contact Atlantis when he's found Teyla's people. Like Elizabeth in common ground, John has to decide if he can trust Todd or not.

In the end, he allows him to go. Todd, perhaps realizing John wasn't kidding about ending his life the last time, makes good on his promise and sends Atlantis the coordinates of the camp where the Athosians are being held. They rescue them and take the entire Athosian tribe to a planet similar to Lantea, where the Athosians can establish a new land under the protection of Atlantis until they are strong enough again to protect themselves. But Teyla and her people are still at odds and perhaps Kanaan is trying to make peace (remember that whole 'he is meant to be a leader' speech Teyla gives in Missing? Perhaps we see him start to exercise that here).

Building into Episode 4, we can have the Birthday start out as a way for Teyla to try and reconnect, and it is reserved but by the time the 'adventure' is over Teyla will have made peace with her people.

This way the Athosians will be near Atlantis and Teyla (no gate access, but that'll be part of the deal of being kept safe and rebuilding) and we can transition Kanaan to a more leaderly role. Plus, John now owes Todd a favor AND Todd is out there in the universe.

Thoughts?

Holy smokes, that's awesome!

Spoiler:

The story for how Todd gets released is brilliant. He's just too useful for them to kill him!

I'm not sure I want to have Atlantis gone as long as even 6 months, much less a full year; whatever repairs need to be made and additional power sources installed to get them back to Pegasus probably shouldn't take that long. I'd say a month, maybe two at the absolute most. Just long enough that the Wraith realize there's nothing to check their havoc-wreaking, and the Athosians and the Coalition realize they're in very big trouble, but not so long that the situation would've grown out of control even for Atlantis to deal with.

I really, really, really like the conflict with Teyla being shunned by the Athosians; her people are such an important part of her life, and aside from Suspicion back in Season 1, we've seen so little of how her isolation from them has really changed their perceptions of her. She needs a bit of a shake-up here, and this will do nicely.

[Southern Red]

Having a full understanding of the series is so nice. I think I have a plotline for Episode 3--tell me what y'all think.

At the end of EATG, we're left hanging with whether John made good on his threat to kill Todd. I say he didn't, Todd's still around.

Spoiler:

When we end the Series 6 two-part opener, Atlantis will be back in Pegasus. When they get there, they will go to New New Athos so Teyla can find her people.

In episode 3, we get there and Teyla discovers that many of her people are missing, and the ones left will NOT want her back as leader. The reason is they felt she abandoned them (having been on Earth for anywhere from 6 months to a year without word to them) and while she was gone the Wraith came and took some of them.

What the Atlantis group finds out is that the Wraith have started building camps to keep prisoners for experimentation of potential cures for the Hoffan drug. This is similar to what was hinted at in Outsiders, and also shows what the Wraith were doing with the refugees. Plague survivors are kept and tested on.

The Athosians have been attacked because of their connections to Atlantis, for revenge, etc. Teyla is desperate to find them but the remaining Athosians won't listen to her and Atlantis has no idea where to start. In a twist, Kanaan is able to mediate between Atlantis and Athos.

Todd, however, proposes that he knows of a number of potential 'sites' where the camps could be, that he can worm his way back into his faction of the Wraith and that if John lets him go, he'll contact Atlantis when he's found Teyla's people. Like Elizabeth in common ground, John has to decide if he can trust Todd or not.

In the end, he allows him to go. Todd, perhaps realizing John wasn't kidding about ending his life the last time, makes good on his promise and sends Atlantis the coordinates of the camp where the Athosians are being held. They rescue them and take the entire Athosian tribe to a planet similar to Lantea, where the Athosians can establish a new land under the protection of Atlantis until they are strong enough again to protect themselves. But Teyla and her people are still at odds and perhaps Kanaan is trying to make peace (remember that whole 'he is meant to be a leader' speech Teyla gives in Missing? Perhaps we see him start to exercise that here).

Building into Episode 4, we can have the Birthday start out as a way for Teyla to try and reconnect, and it is reserved but by the time the 'adventure' is over Teyla will have made peace with her people.

This way the Athosians will be near Atlantis and Teyla (no gate access, but that'll be part of the deal of being kept safe and rebuilding) and we can transition Kanaan to a more leaderly role. Plus, John now owes Todd a favor AND Todd is out there in the universe.

Thoughts?

Sounds very promising. I like the idea of letting Kanaan live up to his full potential as a leader. That's very much in keeping with canon. The only negative I see is having the Athosians missing again and Teyla all ranty about it, but I don't see a way to work around that. I also like the Todd connection. He should still have a soft spot for Teyla after their adventures together in The Queen.

[Anuna]

Having a full understanding of the series is so nice. I think I have a plotline for Episode 3--tell me what y'all think.

At the end of EATG, we're left hanging with whether John made good on his threat to kill Todd. I say he didn't, Todd's still around.

Spoiler:

When we end the Series 6 two-part opener, Atlantis will be back in Pegasus. When they get there, they will go to New New Athos so Teyla can find her people.

In episode 3, we get there and Teyla discovers that many of her people are missing, and the ones left will NOT want her back as leader. The reason is they felt she abandoned them (having been on Earth for anywhere from 6 months to a year without word to them) and while she was gone the Wraith came and took some of them.

What the Atlantis group finds out is that the Wraith have started building camps to keep prisoners for experimentation of potential cures for the Hoffan drug. This is similar to what was hinted at in Outsiders, and also shows what the Wraith were doing with the refugees. Plague survivors are kept and tested on.

The Athosians have been attacked because of their connections to Atlantis, for revenge, etc. Teyla is desperate to find them but the remaining Athosians won't listen to her and Atlantis has no idea where to start. In a twist, Kanaan is able to mediate between Atlantis and Athos.

Todd, however, proposes that he knows of a number of potential 'sites' where the camps could be, that he can worm his way back into his faction of the Wraith and that if John lets him go, he'll contact Atlantis when he's found Teyla's people. Like Elizabeth in common ground, John has to decide if he can trust Todd or not.

In the end, he allows him to go. Todd, perhaps realizing John wasn't kidding about ending his life the last time, makes good on his promise and sends Atlantis the coordinates of the camp where the Athosians are being held. They rescue them and take the entire Athosian tribe to a planet similar to Lantea, where the Athosians can establish a new land under the protection of Atlantis until they are strong enough again to protect themselves. But Teyla and her people are still at odds and perhaps Kanaan is trying to make peace (remember that whole 'he is meant to be a leader' speech Teyla gives in Missing? Perhaps we see him start to exercise that here).

Building into Episode 4, we can have the Birthday start out as a way for Teyla to try and reconnect, and it is reserved but by the time the 'adventure' is over Teyla will have made peace with her people.

This way the Athosians will be near Atlantis and Teyla (no gate access, but that'll be part of the deal of being kept safe and rebuilding) and we can transition Kanaan to a more leaderly role. Plus, John now owes Todd a favor AND Todd is out there in the universe.

Thoughts?

I like this very very much.

My favorite part about this idea, perhaps, is the fact that Kanaan will ahev an active and vital role for both Athosians AND Atlantis. Actually, all sides have a say here. Then, this two parter will show us how multiple connections are important for the story - Atlantis and Athosians, John and Todd, teyla and her people, Teyla and Kanaan, Atlantis and Kanaan. As always, you have a good handle on continuity and your ideas follow a logical path. I can't think of anything to add here, only give you thumbs up for this.

[Southern Red]

I like this very very much.

My favorite part about this idea, perhaps, is the fact that Kanaan will ahev an active and vital role for both Athosians AND Atlantis. Actually, all sides have a say here. Then, this two parter will show us how multiple connections are important for the story - Atlantis and Athosians, John and Todd, teyla and her people, Teyla and Kanaan, Atlantis and Kanaan. As always, you have a good handle on continuity and your ideas follow a logical path. I can't think of anything to add here, only give you thumbs up for this.

And, may I add, that in canon Teyla had a lot of faith in Kanaan's leadership. She obviously looked up to him and admired him. Too bad we didn't get to know him better, but we are here to fix that. We will not discard him like an old shoe. Because we respect the characters as written in canon.

[Scary Kitty]

Sounds very promising. I like the idea of letting Kanaan live up to his full potential as a leader. That's very much in keeping with canon. The only negative I see is having the Athosians missing again and Teyla all ranty about it, but I don't see a way to work around that. I also like the Todd connection. He should still have a soft spot for Teyla after their adventures together in The Queen.

Oh yes. I'm still hoping we can work in an appearance by Wraith Queen Teyla at some point in the season.

And, may I add, that in canon Teyla had a lot of faith in Kanaan's leadership. She obviously looked up to him and admired him. Too bad we didn't get to know him better, but we are here to fix that. We will not discard him like an old shoe. Because we respect the characters as written in canon.

All the characters. Including the ones that are supposedly "dead."

[Southern Red]

Oh yes. I'm still hoping we can work in an appearance by Wraith Queen Teyla at some point in the season.



All the characters. Including the ones that are supposedly "dead."

Amen sister.

[pkprd869]

Hola, my sparkie amigos y amigas! So much to catch up on. Where to begin... I too am a closet nerd. My stargate friends gave me crap endlessly because I skipped an episode of SG-1 for The OC. I can play two very different instruments. I like music from Rosemarry Clooney to AC/DC, eat Chicago hotdogs for luch and chicken fried steak with collards for supper. I love football, baseball (Sox took 2 of 3 from them bums on the north side) and boxing. And I have a poli sci degree but work as a millwright.

Next, I think Lizzie must know something about a wide variety of sports. Diplomats love sports too. I can't remember what hockey reference Shep makes, but it was probably an inside joke like when the TPTB write jabs at Canadian stuff. I always thought Lizzie was Ivy League educated, and the Ivies are pretty hardcore about their sports rivalries. But who knows, hell maybe Lizzie owns a vintage 1959 Les Paul and makes Jimmy Paige sound like a school girl.

[Scary Kitty]

Mmm, Chicago hot dogs...

Darnit, pk, you're making me hungry!

[Eri13]

Holy smokes, that's awesome!

Spoiler:

The story for how Todd gets released is brilliant. He's just too useful for them to kill him!

I'm not sure I want to have Atlantis gone as long as even 6 months, much less a full year; whatever repairs need to be made and additional power sources installed to get them back to Pegasus probably shouldn't take that long. I'd say a month, maybe two at the absolute most. Just long enough that the Wraith realize there's nothing to check their havoc-wreaking, and the Athosians and the Coalition realize they're in very big trouble, but not so long that the situation would've grown out of control even for Atlantis to deal with.

I really, really, really like the conflict with Teyla being shunned by the Athosians; her people are such an important part of her life, and aside from Suspicion back in Season 1, we've seen so little of how her isolation from them has really changed their perceptions of her. She needs a bit of a shake-up here, and this will do nicely.

For the time period, that's something perhaps we should discuss. I think it could reasonably be gone for about 6 months or so at least. It'll take a while for word taking a while to spread through the Pegasus that Atlantis has left and their forces are nowhere to be found and are not returning; it would also take a while for the Wraith to re-ally themselves to set up counter attacks on the Coalition planets. Once the Coalition recognizes that they're being targeted, that'll take a little time for them to get organized, plus the time it takes to realize they need Atlantis because they can't fight battles on their own, then the travel time for the Coalition's souped up Traveller's ship to make it to the Milky Way. I couldn't see this happening quickly, especially the Wraith getting over their personal differences quickly and mobilizing. So I don't think 6 months is too long a time frame. Just long enough to put Pegasus in peril but not give the Wraith enough time to reamass forces.

Sounds very promising. I like the idea of letting Kanaan live up to his full potential as a leader. That's very much in keeping with canon. The only negative I see is having the Athosians missing again and Teyla all ranty about it, but I don't see a way to work around that. I also like the Todd connection. He should still have a soft spot for Teyla after their adventures together in The Queen.

I like this very very much.

My favorite part about this idea, perhaps, is the fact that Kanaan will ahev an active and vital role for both Athosians AND Atlantis. Actually, all sides have a say here. Then, this two parter will show us how multiple connections are important for the story - Atlantis and Athosians, John and Todd, teyla and her people, Teyla and Kanaan, Atlantis and Kanaan. As always, you have a good handle on continuity and your ideas follow a logical path. I can't think of anything to add here, only give you thumbs up for this.

I was hoping that we could work Kanaan into an important role and this just seemed to fit without taking over our entire Season 6.

SR, I was going back and forth on whether the Athosians should be captured...again...because I agree with you. That's why only a few are taken and not the group; the remainder will be living kinda like guerillas trying to avoid culling and very bitter to Teyla. And perhaps rather than be indignant, Teyla just doesn't know what to do, because they no longer trust her. I think we can distinguish this from Michael's kidnapping, perhaps have it be because the Wraith need them for their genetics, and perhaps draw a parallel from The Gift as well with the horror of their being experimented on brought up again. And perhaps the Wraith recognized the Athosians in general are dangerous because they've been so involved, so we treat them like they're no longer a sheltered society, the Wraith are now out to destroy them. Which is how we later make them a very important part of the Coalition though they're not an advanced society, because they're on the Wraith hot list.

And perhaps we also start turning them advanced, making them realize they need to learn weaponry and such to defend themselves since they can no longer hide or something.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Eri that was a pretty cool outline for episode 3. What are you guys going to do with the timeline like around the same time Hammond is launched Atlantis returns to Pegasus? Or how are you guys going to play this.

[Falcon Horus]

*is getting drunk from all the wine-talk*

...a vintage 1959 Les Paul...

Yay, thanks to my new book - Guitar Playing For Dummies - I know what a Les Paul is.

Mmm yeah, I'm going to try and teach myself how to play the guitar. I foresee interesting journal entries in the coming months...

*...and wanders off again*

[Scary Kitty]

For the time period, that's something perhaps we should discuss. I think it could reasonably be gone for about 6 months or so at least. It'll take a while for word taking a while to spread through the Pegasus that Atlantis has left and their forces are nowhere to be found and are not returning; it would also take a while for the Wraith to re-ally themselves to set up counter attacks on the Coalition planets. Once the Coalition recognizes that they're being targeted, that'll take a little time for them to get organized, plus the time it takes to realize they need Atlantis because they can't fight battles on their own, then the travel time for the Coalition's souped up Traveller's ship to make it to the Milky Way. I couldn't see this happening quickly, especially the Wraith getting over their personal differences quickly and mobilizing. So I don't think 6 months is too long a time frame. Just long enough to put Pegasus in peril but not give the Wraith enough time to reamass forces.

The only thing that really concerns me about the six month timetable is, if Atlantis is sitting on Earth that long, how are they going to be able to keep it secret from the public? As of the end of EatG, Atlantis is sitting right outside San Francisco Bay, smack in the entry/exit path to a major Pacific shipping port. If the government has to keep diverting international shipping traffic around a seemingly empty spot of ocean for no apparent reason, people will get suspicious. They're going to need to move Atlantis somehow, but 1) where? and 2) with what energy source? (I'm assuming they'll have enough power from what's left in the ZPMs for the cloak, but not much else) Something tells me they'd need a fleet of tug boats for that job.

[Lythisrose]

The only thing that really concerns me about the six month timetable is, if Atlantis is sitting on Earth that long, how are they going to be able to keep it secret from the public? As of the end of EatG, Atlantis is sitting right outside San Francisco Bay, smack in the entry/exit path to a major Pacific shipping port. If the government has to keep diverting international shipping traffic around a seemingly empty spot of ocean for no apparent reason, people will get suspicious. They're going to need to move Atlantis somehow, but 1) where? and 2) with what energy source? (I'm assuming they'll have enough power from what's left in the ZPMs for the cloak, but not much else) Something tells me they'd need a fleet of tug boats for that job.

I didn't pay that much attention to EaTG, can't they just sink it?

[Scary Kitty]

I didn't pay that much attention to EaTG, can't they just sink it?

If they've got enough power to maintain the shield under constant pressure from the ocean, they could. But we don't know how much they've got left, other than that they've got enough for the cloak.