Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lythisrose]

Me again...
(kind of feel like a disgruntled fan posting on Mallozzi's blog, heaven forbid :O)
I think y'all are going in the right direction with the character you are creating as Shep's (temporary) love interest. But I know you all know well how divisive ships can be in this fandom, I can only think of one of Shep's "love interests" that wasn't shot down by many, and that was Nancy. Larrin, Chaya, the Tower wench, etc. were all roundly criticized by Shep fans. (at least from what I read here and on LJ)
In addition the McKeller ship was pretty much the Titanic of SG ships.
People didn't seem to have too much of a problem with Ronon and Amelia (if you saw Season 5) but most ships on the show were not done well. Why? What were the qualities of the canon "hook-ups" that were criticized? What are the characteristics of a successful relationship on an action-adventure show like Atlantis? How will these factor into the story you are writing?
And this is totally on another topic, but Mallozzi hinted at a gay male character on the show. Would Season 6 consider identifying this individual in a positive way?
Hope I am not annoying anyone with my posts.
Thanks for listening.

[Anuna]

Well I must admit i'm not one of those other character/John fans either. Taht is why I'll never watch Larrin episodes because I had enough of previous Kirkettes, and no, I really don't care how strong Larrin was. In my opinion there is a perfect partner for John. PTB should have never dumped her.

However, I think thisGF development is goling to be good for John. Sometimes, a wound is exactly the thing that heals you and not all medicines are pretty - if anything, John goes out of this with a renewed fait in Elizabeth and the whole GF - episode confirms to him that there is one woman who is a separate category from all others (and that he still feels very very strongly for her). We lay good grounds for John/Elizabeth relationship later in season 7.

There's a song that has a lyric that reminds me of sparky - Simply Red's"For your babies" - "I don't beleve in many things, but in you, I do". (Very John )

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv4HOh9uwLc

[Anuna]

Pimping!

Guys, some of you might wanna join otl_fest (One True Leader fic fest) over at Live Journal. It's a fic challenge for all kinds of Elizabeth focused fics. All types, genres and pairings are game! There will be prompt posts and claim posts, and the required wordcount for fics isn't big - 800 words. GO and JOIN!!!! Your friendly mods are hihoplastic and tenacious_err

[Scary Kitty]

Me again...
(kind of feel like a disgruntled fan posting on Mallozzi's blog, heaven forbid :O)
I think y'all are going in the right direction with the character you are creating as Shep's (temporary) love interest. But I know you all know well how divisive ships can be in this fandom, I can only think of one of Shep's "love interests" that wasn't shot down by many, and that was Nancy. Larrin, Chaya, the Tower wench, etc. were all roundly criticized by Shep fans. (at least from what I read here and on LJ)
In addition the McKeller ship was pretty much the Titanic of SG ships.
People didn't seem to have too much of a problem with Ronon and Amelia (if you saw Season 5) but most ships on the show were not done well. Why? What were the qualities of the canon "hook-ups" that were criticized? What are the characteristics of a successful relationship on an action-adventure show like Atlantis? How will these factor into the story you are writing?

Jason Momoa seemed like he wasn't impressed with Ronon/Amelia when he talked about it earlier this year (was that at the Chevron con in the UK?).

I think the underlying problem with the way that all the canon ships were portrayed on the show was the lack of consistent, realistic development. One could go for half a season or longer with no apparent movement on a relationship, and then suddenly out of the blue, you've got videotape confessions, infirmary visits and premium memberships in the mile high club. At least with John and Elizabeth, we've seen them grow closer as friends, colleagues and leaders over the course of three years. We've seen repeated evidence that John still mourns Elizabeth over a year after she was lost. That's real consistency, and we intend to build on it and bring it to it's logical conclusion.

And this is totally on another topic, but Mallozzi hinted at a gay male character on the show. Would Season 6 consider identifying this individual in a positive way?
Hope I am not annoying anyone with my posts.
Thanks for listening.

Honestly, we've never even discussed the idea of addressing that question. I can't speak for anyone else involved in the Season 6 project, but I personally felt the revelation about a possible gay character looked more like a cheap and shallow grab for attention than a legitimate attempt at exploring issues about gender and sexual orientation. I don't think it's worth our time and effort to pursue what appears to be a failed publicity stunt.

Well I must admit i'm not one of those other character/John fans either. Taht is why I'll never watch Larrin episodes because I had enough of previous Kirkettes, and no, I really don't care how strong Larrin was. In my opinion there is a perfect partner for John. PTB should have never dumped her.

However, I think thisGF development is goling to be good for John. Sometimes, a wound is exactly the thing that heals you and not all medicines are pretty - if anything, John goes out of this with a renewed fait in Elizabeth and the whole GF - episode confirms to him that there is one woman who is a separate category from all others (and that he still feels very very strongly for her). We lay good grounds for John/Elizabeth relationship later in season 7.

There's a song that has a lyric that reminds me of sparky - Simply Red's"For your babies" - "I don't beleve in many things, but in you, I do". (Very John )

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv4HOh9uwLc

I couldn't have said that better myself.

Good song; you're right, the lyrics do give an insight into John.

Pimping!

Guys, some of you might wanna join otl_fest (One True Leader fic fest) over at Live Journal. It's a fic challenge for all kinds of Elizabeth focused fics. All types, genres and pairings are game! There will be prompt posts and claim posts, and the required wordcount for fics isn't big - 800 words. GO and JOIN!!!! Your friendly mods are hihoplastic and tenacious_err

Oooh, I may have to go check that out...

Aaaand... that's it for me, 'cause it's bedtime and I'm ready to sleep! Nighty-night, Sparkies, and pleasant Sparky dreams!

[KrisRussel]

Hello Sparkies... I'm at work... secretly wading through my Fedcon pics... why did I take so many?!? *headdesk*
Hope you're all good.
*goes to look at more pics*

[KrisRussel]

A spoiler for what is to come

Spoiler:

[Anuna]

A spoiler for what is to come

Spoiler:

EEEEE! They look so cute! Joe looks ... chubby Kris, the pics are gorgeous!

[ddc]

I think the idea of a possible love interest for John indirectly leading to his realizing his true feelings for Elizabeth is a good idea. Sort of like the whole Pete business with Carter; IMO she needed that relationship to realize her true feelings for Jack. With the twist fro John that the Genii woman actually betrays Atlantis and therefoer him.

[Eri13]

I would have to say they're probably equal. They each have a place and because we're not changing canon we're keeping Keller in her current position. And McKeller. Although it won't get a lot of attention. As far as who gets the most "screentime", that would be for Eri to answer as she's more knowledgeable about the main arc.

And for those who aren't happy with the Shep girlfriend bits. We welcome everyone's opinion. There are elements of the overall season that everyone would like changed but we have to go with majority rule. I don't think the GF is going to take over even a whole episode but it's something that will add depth and realism to the story. And we can show TPTB how it could have been done well.

I agree with SR, it'll probably be Keller more than Carson. There's no reason to replace her as CMO (we're not going out of our way to do so) and Carson will be involved like he was in S5, I think. Honestly, they're both equals but Keller is just in the infirmary more.

As long as I get to enjoy Kate back... I'm happy... Easy to please I am.

We've got that taken care of--please hang around!

A spoiler for what is to come

*squeals like a fangirl*

otl_fest sounds awesome, Anuna! I might check it out, though with SS6, that's a LOT of writing.

As to the SGA Ships--yeah, this fandom is polarized as far as shipping. That's something we can't change. By virtue of our name and affiliation there are some people who just won't read these stories, even with us bringing in Nancy or giving Shep a girlfriend or working hard to make them well-written and in canon, which is a shame.

But I think what we're hoping here is to give John an intelligent twist to his story that hasn't been done before, that goes through some real development without hijacking the show. And let's face it, a 'real' relationship hasn't been done in SGA before. I watched 'Tracker' last night and was totally rolling my eyes at how that was done. Hopefully here we can do it well and set up a really believable reason for serious ship at the end of the season.

As to the gay character--I think the ambiguity surrounding that character makes it hard, for one, to speculate, and even if we knew, I'd want them to be treated with respect and dignity, not make the storyline a 'showpiece', if that makes sense.

[Anuna]

I agree with SR, it'll probably be Keller more than Carson. There's no reason to replace her as CMO (we're not going out of our way to do so) and Carson will be involved like he was in S5, I think. Honestly, they're both equals but Keller is just in the infirmary more.



We've got that taken care of--please hang around!



*squeals like a fangirl*

otl_fest sounds awesome, Anuna! I might check it out, though with SS6, that's a LOT of writing.

As to the SGA Ships--yeah, this fandom is polarized as far as shipping. That's something we can't change. By virtue of our name and affiliation there are some people who just won't read these stories, even with us bringing in Nancy or giving Shep a girlfriend or working hard to make them well-written and in canon, which is a shame.

But I think what we're hoping here is to give John an intelligent twist to his story that hasn't been done before, that goes through some real development without hijacking the show. And let's face it, a 'real' relationship hasn't been done in SGA before. I watched 'Tracker' last night and was totally rolling my eyes at how that was done. Hopefully here we can do it well and set up a really believable reason for serious ship at the end of the season.

As to the gay character--I think the ambiguity surrounding that character makes it hard, for one, to speculate, and even if we knew, I'd want them to be treated with respect and dignity, not make the storyline a 'showpiece', if that makes sense.

As always I find myself nodding in apprval of your posts.

On gay character question - I think the decision whom we should make gay puts us in a tricky position. We all know this fandom is polarized to nth degree and that there are slashers and people who multiship, and people who are ale to see character XYZ as straight gay and bi. There are fans who prefer and believe that certain character is one of those. I think the safest way, and the one that's fair to the show is to stick with canon. There was no canon "proof" or even a clear indication that any of reguar characters is homosexual. I think it's best to keep it that way, since we agreed at the beginning that we shoudl stick to canon. As for Mr Malozzi and his musings on his blog, I agree with SK - it was a bad publicity stunt designed to attract attention.

As for John storyline - I think it's good that he finally gets one. We can give him a sense of continuity and roundness of character who is just human and allowed to make mistakes and take chances and change his mind. And then see what's best for him - everything done in a consistent, logical manner.

Eri, I agree on "Tracker". That was just horribly executed.

[pkprd869]

Morning y'all, a few quick things before I rack out. First, I do like the idea of Shep having a girl friend. I think it can work long as it doesn't end looking Shep is "Kirking" like in other episodes. (I recall Shep chasing Chaya a bit, but mostly it was the alien girl-o-the-week throwing themselves at Shep.) And having been betrayed will add a complexity to his relationship with Weir when she comes back. He won't know if he can trust her, how he feels, etc.

And, please see spoiler.

Spoiler:

Agree with Anunna in re homosexual characters. I have no problems with gays, one of my best friends in college was gay. Even when tptb mentioned it, I thought it was just pitiful play for attention. Stargate was never about patent or even subtle social commentary. Let's just focus on fun and adventure with just enough romance we plan on doing.

[Southern Red]

Jason Momoa seemed like he wasn't impressed with Ronon/Amelia when he talked about it earlier this year (was that at the Chevron con in the UK?).

I think the underlying problem with the way that all the canon ships were portrayed on the show was the lack of consistent, realistic development. One could go for half a season or longer with no apparent movement on a relationship, and then suddenly out of the blue, you've got videotape confessions, infirmary visits and premium memberships in the mile high club. At least with John and Elizabeth, we've seen them grow closer as friends, colleagues and leaders over the course of three years. We've seen repeated evidence that John still mourns Elizabeth over a year after she was lost. That's real consistency, and we intend to build on it and bring it to it's logical conclusion.



Honestly, we've never even discussed the idea of addressing that question. I can't speak for anyone else involved in the Season 6 project, but I personally felt the revelation about a possible gay character looked more like a cheap and shallow grab for attention than a legitimate attempt at exploring issues about gender and sexual orientation. I don't think it's worth our time and effort to pursue what appears to be a failed publicity stunt.



I couldn't have said that better myself.

Good song; you're right, the lyrics do give an insight into John.



Oooh, I may have to go check that out...

Aaaand... that's it for me, 'cause it's bedtime and I'm ready to sleep! Nighty-night, Sparkies, and pleasant Sparky dreams!

Agreed on the ship question. We will not be doing any of those suddenly I see you are the love of my life moments. It will be a gradual two steps forward one step back dance. We aren't writing a romance novel.

And the gay character also will not be happening. Because there's no way not to make it there just for the sake of making it there. It's no body's business and why should we even bring it up unless we intended to make that character part of a twosome? If we start down this slippery slope, we'll have to cater to every group out there. Next thing you know we'd be dealing with religions and political persuasions and dietary preferences and Lord knows what all.

[Fionnait]

I think the idea of a possible love interest for John indirectly leading to his realizing his true feelings for Elizabeth is a good idea. Sort of like the whole Pete business with Carter; IMO she needed that relationship to realize her true feelings for Jack. With the twist fro John that the Genii woman actually betrays Atlantis and therefoer him.

If it's like the Pete storyline I may have to be sick on the thread. *g*

[Southern Red]

In looking for FedCon reports I found this tidbit from one.

They both said they were dissatisfied with how quickly everybody seemed to get over losing Elizabeth and that they both repeatedly asked the writers to do something with that. They found it weird how quickly Amanda came on after losing Torri. (The question was how they reacted to 'losing Elizabeth so many times', to which David's first reply was to look around as if searching and asking Joe, "Where did we put her?")


I had heard before that Joe insisted that they put in something about her which resulted in the scene between John and Carter in Reunion. This confirms that it went beyond that. So without these guys we would have gotten no mention of her at all. Made of fail TPTB.

[KrisRussel]

In looking for FedCon reports I found this tidbit from one.

They both said they were dissatisfied with how quickly everybody seemed to get over losing Elizabeth and that they both repeatedly asked the writers to do something with that. They found it weird how quickly Amanda came on after losing Torri. (The question was how they reacted to 'losing Elizabeth so many times', to which David's first reply was to look around as if searching and asking Joe, "Where did we put her?")


I had heard before that Joe insisted that they put in something about her which resulted in the scene between John and Carter in Reunion. This confirms that it went beyond that. So without these guys we would have gotten no mention of her at all. Made of fail TPTB.

Hey, that was part of the answer to my question
Didn't remember their full reply because I was standing at the mic and couldn't write all of it down at that time, but yup, that was part of their answer.

I'm in school now... gonna wade through some more pictures... I should be paying attention to the teacher though... shouldn't I?