Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

I never thought I'd say it, but I love that idea! But I wouldn't make her related to Kolya. Then John would never truly trust her, no matter what she does.



Con in Minneapolis in June? What and where?

Con info here.

Yes, its definitely cliched, but poor John--he needs to just be betrayed and not lose anyone else! Plus, I think if we do it believably, meaning that we don't hedge on the characters or the relationship, we'll avoid being too cliche. We need to make it that she's good, but she is just TOO loyal to her people and it hurts her to choose, and it hurts him not to be chosen. That will give John some nice, meaty emotional development. And I'm really curious to see that bitterness factor played into the recovery of Elizabeth storylines, because I almost think that would be great fun.

It'd be easy to make her 'the one' but I think that might interfere with our plans for S7, so I think she has to be tainted somehow. Otherwise, we'll have no believable basis for breaking them up.

I also like the idea of paralleling her to Elizabeth in a way, because I think it makes the implication that John suddenly sees Elizabeth in a new light by the end of the season more believable. Everything about this girl he thought he was falling for is apparent in Elizabeth, except he knows he can trust her. That is something that becomes singularly apparent to him by the end of S6.

She can totally be a red-head. With Sora we had precedent for the genetics being there.

This is sounding better and better. It would help explain why John is so distant with Elizabeth when she first comes back. I mean how much can his poor old heart take?

[Scary Kitty]

I'm really really really behind in this thread...I will try to catch up after I get my house back in order and come down from my Torri-high

My LA report
I will post more about meeting Torri, once I wrap my mind around it all....

SQUEE! *huggles*

I thought of Dahlia, but I always have a hard time believing 'no chemistry--total chemistry' storylines. Since he's already seen her once, we get not as much impact as a girl we've never seen before, perhaps someone who rose in Ladon's ranks because of her wit and skill. That's why I didn't initially include Dahlia, but can if the group wants it.

Also, though, Dahlia is a scientist, no?

That's true enough, but it's certainly possible that there was just too much else going on for much of anything about Dahlia to register with John at the time, except that she was Ladon's sister and that Beckett had saved her life. I'm not sure she ever said if she was a scientist or not... she could be.

Anyway, I'm not married to the idea of it being Dahlia, I just thought I'd offer it as a possibility. But it could be anyone.

This is sounding better and better. It would help explain why John is so distant with Elizabeth when she first comes back. I mean how much can his poor old heart take?

Exactly. Poor John. Heheheh...

[Anuna]

Eri, the idea is brilliant. No complaint from me either, because thsi gives John the oh very needed emotional and personal development and ties nicely into Elizabeth stories and all the aspects of Sparky bond that make it so unique.

I wouldn't make her related to Kolya - just let her be someone new and fresh and smart. Empasizis on smart, because John is a smart guy. Tainting her is a must, and through that particular storyline we can explore how John himself got tainted in the last six - seven years. I think it can be done in "Gravity".

[Southern Red]

Eri, the idea is brilliant. No complaint from me either, because thsi gives John the oh very needed emotional and personal development and ties nicely into Elizabeth stories and all the aspects of Sparky bond that make it so unique.

I wouldn't make her related to Kolya - just let her be someone new and fresh and smart. Empasizis on smart, because John is a smart guy. Tainting her is a must, and through that particular storyline we can explore how John himself got tainted in the last six - seven years. I think it can be done in "Gravity".

I also don't think she should be related to Kolya. Neither do I think she should be Dahlia. It just seems too unlikely. I want someone new and fresh and a very strong smart character who impresses John. She has to be like Elizabeth, but he doesn't realize it. We've seen before starting with Chaya that John's judgement when it comes to beautiful women is typically male. But this time maybe we could have him be more impressed with her than she is with him. Sort of like what that blonde dimwit in Inferno could have been had she truly been smart enough to be a scientist. He has to work at winning her over and that's new for him.

[Anuna]

I also don't think she should be related to Kolya. Neither do I think she should be Dahlia. It just seems too unlikely. I want someone new and fresh and a very strong smart character who impresses John. She has to be like Elizabeth, but he doesn't realize it. We've seen before starting with Chaya that John's judgement when it comes to beautiful women is typically male. But this time maybe we could have him be more impressed with her than she is with him. Sort of like what that blonde dimwit in Inferno could have been had she truly been smart enough to be a scientist. He has to work at winning her over and that's new for him.

Well, not entirelly new.

There's Nancy, and she's smart and there's Elizabeth, and she's even smarter. John did impress her, just not in romantic sense. *g* Actually, the romantic part is somethign we could discuss.

[Eri13]

I also don't think she should be related to Kolya. Neither do I think she should be Dahlia. It just seems too unlikely. I want someone new and fresh and a very strong smart character who impresses John. She has to be like Elizabeth, but he doesn't realize it. We've seen before starting with Chaya that John's judgement when it comes to beautiful women is typically male. But this time maybe we could have him be more impressed with her than she is with him. Sort of like what that blonde dimwit in Inferno could have been had she truly been smart enough to be a scientist. He has to work at winning her over and that's new for him.

I like that--her not being swayed by him. That's good. Y'know, I always thought Larrin could have been that had they not gone 180 and made her dominatrix. But she was nicely strong. This girl should be strong, but amicable, I think--nice to meet. Just not impressed with the handsomeness. But not completely avoiding it, because I hate those storylines, too. Maybe she thinks he's cute but she doesn't have time to be bothered with his handsomeness. She has a job to do. Then, when the dust has settled and the flirting goes nowhere, its his heroism that turns her head--we can see that in Eppies 3, which is what gets them together.

I get the general feelings we'd be hedgy on having a familiar face but everyone would be okay with someone new, so lets just say she's new. And nobody objects to a Genii? I think that's the best race to have her from, because they're smart and strong and dodgy at the same time.

She's a redhead. A diplomatic representative (costume, we need to come up with a nicer Genii costume for women than we've seen).

[Probie]

I'm barely able to survive 3 days... let alone 4... *headdesk*
Next year promises to be interesting. Would be fun if you were there too. Not sure yet who the guests will be though or when they'll start announcing them. But as it's their 20th anniversary (technically 19, but who's counting), they promised us an amazing guestlist. This of course depends on what show you like. I totally loved this years guestlist, but a buddy of mine didn't like it at all (he's not into SG and BSG) and this year was exception with the three SG guests as it's normally only one. But the guestlist is always a surprise and I've never been disappointed.

To be honest, I don't care about the guest list.lol I just want to live a convention once. Of course I want SG actors and BSG actors but if it's not the big ones, I don't have a problem with it.

Eri13: Love your idea, amiga. This can be very interesting.

Drew: Great report. You survived!lol

For Lt JS (it's short sorry lol): I also have a problem with GW. I can quote correctly. I have to write my post twice and there are crosses on the main page.

Fionnait: Do you remember when I said that there are 4 days in France when we don't work (public holiday?). One is a thursday and because I live in a lazy country we also don't work the friday. We don't want to work for one day.lol I'm a lazy girl in a lazy country.

[Fionnait]

Well, all I have to say about giving John a girlfriend is: please don't do it in a single episode... Just have them meet in one episode, talk in another. Just build it slowly!

Fionnait: Do you remember when I said that there are 4 days in France when we don't work (public holiday?). One is a thursday and because I live in a lazy country we also don't work the friday. We don't want to work for one day.lol I'm a lazy girl in a lazy country.

Tu es très paresseuse! J'ai dû lire mon devoir à haute voix, aujourd'hui.

[Southern Red]

I like that--her not being swayed by him. That's good. Y'know, I always thought Larrin could have been that had they not gone 180 and made her dominatrix. But she was nicely strong. This girl should be strong, but amicable, I think--nice to meet. Just not impressed with the handsomeness. But not completely avoiding it, because I hate those storylines, too. Maybe she thinks he's cute but she doesn't have time to be bothered with his handsomeness. She has a job to do. Then, when the dust has settled and the flirting goes nowhere, its his heroism that turns her head--we can see that in Eppies 3, which is what gets them together.

I get the general feelings we'd be hedgy on having a familiar face but everyone would be okay with someone new, so lets just say she's new. And nobody objects to a Genii? I think that's the best race to have her from, because they're smart and strong and dodgy at the same time.

She's a redhead. A diplomatic representative (costume, we need to come up with a nicer Genii costume for women than we've seen).

Just so she's not in black leather, I'm good. Or scantily clad. Let's make her classy and ladylike please.

[KrisRussel]

I get the general feelings we'd be hedgy on having a familiar face but everyone would be okay with someone new, so lets just say she's new. And nobody objects to a Genii? I think that's the best race to have her from, because they're smart and strong and dodgy at the same time.

She's a redhead. A diplomatic representative (costume, we need to come up with a nicer Genii costume for women than we've seen).

Yup, I also agree that someone new would be better. And it'd be perfect if she was Genii.
Hmmm, nicer costume... will have to think about that one... Nothing too sexy though, we don't want to make her a 'babe'.

To be honest, I don't care about the guest list.lol I just want to live a convention once. Of course I want SG actors and BSG actors but if it's not the big ones, I don't have a problem with it.

Lol, see that's how I think about it too
That's one of the reasons we always book a year up front (besides having the best places in the house and being first in the autograph line).
It's Fedcon, so it's FUN!!!

Well, all I have to say about giving John a girlfriend is: please don't do it in a single episode... Just have them meet in one episode, talk in another. Just build it slowly!

No, no. Eri was talking about an arc spanning the first half of the season. Otherwise John willll just look like Kirk again and we want to avoid that at all costs, because he isn't like Kirk!

[Fionnait]

No, no. Eri was talking about an arc spanning the first half of the season. Otherwise John willll just look like Kirk again and we want to avoid that at all costs, because he isn't like Kirk!

That I have no objection to.

[Eri13]

That I have no objection to.

Yep, her appearances would go as follows:

- Episode 2 (Return to Pegasus, Part II): On the ship from Pegasus that is sent to recall Atlantis; acts as representative diplomat for the Genii in the Pegasus Coalition. She is the one who convinces the IOA to let Atlantis return (after our guys do, of course)

- Episode 3 (The Resolution of Todd): This follows up what happened to the Wraith at the end of the battle in Episode 2. Our girl is a major voice in what should be done with the Wraith/Todd. John does something heroic or sensible that impresses her more than his good looks. They share a moment at the end that implies mutual interest.

- Episodes 4-5: Somewhere, it is hinted that John has gone to the Genii homeworld more than once. Someone teases him about 'diplomatic relations'. We need to keep the Genii and PC presence heightened in these episodes anyway for future plots, so lip service given them will work great. [SHE'S NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE]

- Episode 6: Perhaps we get a scene at the end with Team Shep returning from the Irati homeworld, and John's girl is sharing a meeting with Woolsey about relations with the Pegasus Coalition and the Genii. The ending scene is John informing her of the plans for the Irati retrovirus (not revealing too much, but enough) and...to the shock of the audience everywhere, they...

Spoiler:

kiss.

- Episode 7: Gives us Teyla's POV of the situation, which shows some potential jealousy (via her Sheyla AU) and also hints at this being something that she's more than a Kirkette, she's a girlfriend. At the end of her episode, though, she's made peace with it?? [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE]

- Episode 8: Perhaps we include her in the final scene, worried about John? Might be nice to have her come over simply because he was in trouble. Find some way to involve the Genii. But acting a little shady in Atlantis. But none of this is crucial, so if it's too much GF stopping by in episodes, we can leave her out.

- Episode 9: We'll alter the content of this episode a little to have Atlantis discover by the end the virus has been stolen, and John realizing that she's the only one who could have done it. This is where diplomatic relations with the PC end. He confronts her about it and she apologizes but says that it was the only way. Atlantis breaks off ties with the Coalition and John is bitter and upset. Add to that the discovery that the razed planets have neutronium and the revelation that Elizabeth's doppelganger Franibeth appears to have been destroyed (and the hits just keep on comin'...)

- Episode 10-11 (Primum Movens): [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] We hear lip service from various people about the split with the PC and what the Genii girl has done. Some are sympathetic, some ask how she could have done this, blah, blah. John is angry, and the discovery of Elizabeth is tied into that. Perfect lead into why Elizabeth herself is anxious and uncertain and feels unloved, which brings us to Quietus.

- Episode 12: [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] in Quietus, perhaps John realizes what he's doing to Elizabeth by acting out towards her inadvertently. He realizes who it is he can trust. We can mirror Elizabeth to John's girlfriend in a way, too, which might be fun.

**note that in Primum Movens and Quietus, the undercurrent story of John's girlfriend is secondary to the plot. It's only a small consideration among much bigger issues--Atlantis family always comes first, and John's whole world is not his GF.

- Episodes 13-15: [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] John returns to status quo with his friends and family now restored to him. Good humor starts to abound.

- Episode 16: Blitzkrieg brings it all to a head. We get lots of discomfort as all parties are thrown together, the Irati retrovirus is being converted into a weapon, and Elizabeth takes point as a diplomat, trying to reestablish ties with the PC but not bend to their wishes. We can discuss later all the triangle stuff that we'll add, but generally speaking, the girl will realize she's lost him and John will be over her enough. Elizabeth is a major factor in both revelations. The Girl's status will be 'available if needed for future seasons'.

- Episode 17: But we will discuss what has been done to emotionally in the Gravity episode. He's ok with himself and that relationship, though, afterwards.

Make sense?

[Eri13]

She needs a name. Here are some Genii names:

Acastus Kolya
Ladon Radim
Dalia Radim
Cowen
Sora
Tirus
Eidos
Toran
Heiron
Athor

[Southern Red]

Yep, her appearances would go as follows:

- Episode 2 (Return to Pegasus, Part II): On the ship from Pegasus that is sent to recall Atlantis; acts as representative diplomat for the Genii in the Pegasus Coalition. She is the one who convinces the IOA to let Atlantis return (after our guys do, of course)

- Episode 3 (The Resolution of Todd): This follows up what happened to the Wraith at the end of the battle in Episode 2. Our girl is a major voice in what should be done with the Wraith/Todd. John does something heroic or sensible that impresses her more than his good looks. They share a moment at the end that implies mutual interest.

- Episodes 4-5: Somewhere, it is hinted that John has gone to the Genii homeworld more than once. Someone teases him about 'diplomatic relations'. We need to keep the Genii and PC presence heightened in these episodes anyway for future plots, so lip service given them will work great. [SHE'S NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE]

- Episode 6: Perhaps we get a scene at the end with Team Shep returning from the Irati homeworld, and John's girl is sharing a meeting with Woolsey about relations with the Pegasus Coalition and the Genii. The ending scene is John informing her of the plans for the Irati retrovirus (not revealing too much, but enough) and...to the shock of the audience everywhere, they...

Spoiler:

kiss.

- Episode 7: Gives us Teyla's POV of the situation, which shows some potential jealousy (via her Sheyla AU) and also hints at this being something that she's more than a Kirkette, she's a girlfriend. At the end of her episode, though, she's made peace with it?? [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE]

- Episode 8: Perhaps we include her in the final scene, worried about John? Might be nice to have her come over simply because he was in trouble. Find some way to involve the Genii. But acting a little shady in Atlantis. But none of this is crucial, so if it's too much GF stopping by in episodes, we can leave her out.

- Episode 9: We'll alter the content of this episode a little to have Atlantis discover by the end the virus has been stolen, and John realizing that she's the only one who could have done it. This is where diplomatic relations with the PC end. He confronts her about it and she apologizes but says that it was the only way. Atlantis breaks off ties with the Coalition and John is bitter and upset. Add to that the discovery that the razed planets have neutronium and the revelation that Elizabeth's doppelganger Franibeth appears to have been destroyed (and the hits just keep on comin'...)

- Episode 10-11 (Primum Movens): [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] We hear lip service from various people about the split with the PC and what the Genii girl has done. Some are sympathetic, some ask how she could have done this, blah, blah. John is angry, and the discovery of Elizabeth is tied into that. Perfect lead into why Elizabeth herself is anxious and uncertain and feels unloved, which brings us to Quietus.

- Episode 12: [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] in Quietus, perhaps John realizes what he's doing to Elizabeth by acting out towards her inadvertently. He realizes who it is he can trust. We can mirror Elizabeth to John's girlfriend in a way, too, which might be fun.

**note that in Primum Movens and Quietus, the undercurrent story of John's girlfriend is secondary to the plot. It's only a small consideration among much bigger issues--Atlantis family always comes first, and John's whole world is not his GF.

- Episodes 13-15: [NOT IN ACTUAL EPISODE] John returns to status quo with his friends and family now restored to him. Good humor starts to abound.

- Episode 16: Blitzkrieg brings it all to a head. We get lots of discomfort as all parties are thrown together, the Irati retrovirus is being converted into a weapon, and Elizabeth takes point as a diplomat, trying to reestablish ties with the PC but not bend to their wishes. We can discuss later all the triangle stuff that we'll add, but generally speaking, the girl will realize she's lost him and John will be over her enough. Elizabeth is a major factor in both revelations. The Girl's status will be 'available if needed for future seasons'.

- Episode 17: But we will discuss what has been done to emotionally in the Gravity episode. He's ok with himself and that relationship, though, afterwards.

Make sense?

Perfect sense. And we would also need to work in his team's reaction other than Teyla. This might be a chance for her to stop and think about John's reaction to her pregnancy and give her a better understanding of why he acted like he did. We can't gloss over or shove anything under the table here. I want, by the time, John realizes that Elizabeth is more than a friend that all his past feelings for other women have been resolved and everybody is on the same page. (Except maybe the new GF) Rodney might start out teasing him but then gentle it a bit when he realizes she's not just another alien princess. Ronon would take it all in stride and wish him the best. I'm wondering if, though, he would not be the first to suspect her.

[nephtys59]

Ok Eri, not very happy about it (poor John, even betrayed, you like to see him brooding?), but I get your point.
I suggest the name Tara, and I agree with red hair and elegant clothes.
We do not want the usual warrior woman in leather, now do we?