Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Oh Probie. *hugs and pats* Most of us went through that. Some of us even got tehir share of trauma on this very thread. *raises hand* Twice or three times? I don't recall any more. In every fandom there are people who love the drama, who seem to think that their opinion is better, and some even think their opinion equals the facts. It's very similar among fanfiction writers who often think their way of seeing things is the only right way. I guess it's a constant of human nature, we cherish our opinions and think very highly of them and are extremely upset when someone dares questioning them. On internet it's very easy to get away with insulting and not truly listening to each other.

This thread is precious - there maybe aren't many people on it, but we are a good bunch. If you don't poke us in the wrong spot, we won't bite. We're pretty smart (yes we are) and also pretty tollerant (if we weren't we wouldn't put up with certain John hater who used to frequent this thread as long as we did, and actually listened to his opinions too!). If there wasn't for this thread I'd leave GW forum long long time ago. I may be biased, but I'm really proud of us, because we are STILL here, even after we were called dead wood, even after the crapfest of S4 and S5 and so many people telling us that our opinion doesn't matter.

Guess what? We're still here. And yes, we and our opinions do matter.

I forgot the John hater. Whatever happened to him? Wait, I don't care. I just hope he doesn't hear what JM said. I think we need a pic or two.

Spoiler:

What? Don't you look at your boss like this?


Or this?

[nephtys59]

I forgot the John hater. Whatever happened to him? Wait, I don't care. I just hope he doesn't hear what JM said. I think we need a pic or two.

Yes we need it, such this one, I like the colours (it's the "Addicted to Shweir" logo on Facebook):

Spoiler:

And how can anybody hate John? Such a good boy!

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

SR, you new fic is beautiful! That's just the kind of thing I'd like to see happen for John one day.

Speaking of John and endings...

I had to LOL at this. Once again what they did was so loud it drowned out what they thought they were doing. So once again I thank him and all the other writers for making the right decision. Way to go, JM. But I didn't see Sheppard trying to nail anybody. At least their ignorance of their own show is consistent.

*snorts*

He always leaves out Carl, too. *LOL*

Um, of the how many? 100? episodes of SGA, I can count on one hand all the episodes in which "Sheppard nailed a female alien he could get his mitts on": Sanctuary, Epiphany & Travelers (if you take that little innuendo at the beginning--not the Larrin stuff.) Am I missing any?

Ones in which he played the flirt include those listed above plus: The Tower (which honestly doesn't count because we're told that he rejected her advances), BAMSR with Larrin, Inferno, and the one or two moments where he smiles/flirts with girls on the expedition or mentions their hotness. (Tao of McKay, for example). And truthfully Joe always played John with such 'honor' that it wasn't 'nailing' in the sense that Malozzi's trying to argue. John was honestly attracted to Chaya and Teer took months before he entertained the thought--at HER insistence, not his.

So, yeah, sometimes I just have to go HUHWHA? with their arguments. Good thing they were writers and not lawyers.

And that brings me to the comments on how Joe has always played John as an honorable man. Just look at how many of these so-called "nailed" female aliens have acted without honor towards John. Teer (Epiphany), Mara (The Tower), and Larrin (Travelers/BAMSR) tried to use John to get something they wanted and seemed to have no trouble using sex to get it. Teer wanted John's help to get her people to ascend, and it took her six months to admit to John that she'd been having visions of him all her life; how much of her behavior toward him was based on her trying to fulfill that prophecy rather than any real feelings for him? Mara wanted a baby with the ATA gene so that she could take the throne after her father died. Larrin wanted him as a lab rat to reverse engineer the ATA gene. At least Chaya was simply lonely and actually seemed to genuinely like John for himself... of course, she still hid the truth that she was an Ancient, but... *shrugs*

Did Elizabeth want something from John? Sure, she was interested in him having the gene and how that could help the expedition, but did she try to coerce him and seduce him into joining up? No. She simply presented the facts to him and made an honest offer of a chance to go, but he made the decision for himself. Did Elizabeth ever try to manipulate John based on unfair expectations of him, as Teyla has done on more than one occasion? No. Elizabeth has let John make his own mistakes, face the consequences, and decide for himself whether or not it was worth it. Elizabeth has always acted towards John with the same kind of honor that he himself lives by. So who better to pair John with than Elizabeth? That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Yeah, I've been through stages like that. And why I'm still around is because of the other people here in this thread.

Sometimes the people who make a show see things completely differently than the viewers. But it's not just now that there are clans. The early days were much much worse, trust me. It's just that some "clans" today think they are the only one who is allowed to have an opinion. Just laugh at their ignorance and move on.

I do. Especially when they chronically get canon wrong simply to manufacture "evidence" that doesn't exist.

We used to see this happen in between seasons. People tended to get really cranky with each other. Now we all have nothing to look forward to so we're cranky all the time. I just wonder how much longer most of us will hang on. But then I look at Firefly forums and Star Trek forums, etc. I guess there will always be something to rehash. But the one thing we can't do is change canon. What has been on screen or not been on screen is forever the same. That's why Sparky is going to last I think. It was never promised to us and therefore we didn't get bitter when it was snatched away. Sparky is clear to anyone who opens their eyes and we don't have to explain how we see something no one else does.

Bingo. It's like I've got it written in my sig: Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. There is nothing that anyone can do to change that.

LONG LIVE SPARKY!!!

[nephtys59]

Did Elizabeth want something from John? Sure, she was interested in him having the gene and how that could help the expedition, but did she try to coerce him and seduce him into joining up? No. She simply presented the facts to him and made an honest offer of a chance to go, but he made the decision for himself. Did Elizabeth ever try to manipulate John based on unfair expectations of him, as Teyla has done on more than one occasion? No. Elizabeth has let John make his own mistakes, face the consequences, and decide for himself whether or not it was worth it. Elizabeth has always acted towards John with the same kind of honor that he himself lives by. So who better to pair John with than Elizabeth? That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Great SK! And I'm sticking to it as well

JUST BECAUSE SPARKY RULEZ!!!

[SMB_BOOKS]

Aww, thank you. Why didn't you tell me you were coming to town? I would have sought you out.

Cuz I'm an idiot and that thought never even entered my brain. DUH! Maybe next time?

Yes we need it, such this one, I like the colours (it's the "Addicted to Shweir" logo on Facebook):

Spoiler:

And how can anybody hate John? Such a good boy!

Ooooh - how do I get that logo on my FB page? *iz techno challenged sometimes*

[Anuna]

On that hook - up JM was reffering to? One thing he said is that it was a possibility. As I said on a different thread today, possibilities don't always come true.

However, it's really simple determining what's canon. If you can't cap it, it's not canon. Alien induced abusive kisses don't count. I really can't find that particular possibility anywhere to cap it - but I can find another one - John/Elizabeth one

[Eri13]

Back on Topic of SS6--does anyone have anything else to add about the Pegasus Coalition? What races should be included in this Coalition? I think we need to have them clearly defined. Whoever has watched Inquisition, can you let us know which races are featured?

[Scary Kitty]

Back on Topic of SS6--does anyone have anything else to add about the Pegasus Coalition? What races should be included in this Coalition? I think we need to have them clearly defined. Whoever has watched Inquisition, can you let us know which races are featured?

Gah! Here we go with our psychic Siamese twins thing again! I was just thinking about this myself.

Aside from the Genii, the only new planets that are specifically named are those of the three representatives on the Coalition Council who are running Team Shep's "trial." There is a line "Soon enough, all of your current trading partners will have no choice but to join and therefore to abide by the ruling of this Council," so at least, at the time of Inquisition, not all of Pegasus has joined up yet. In the opening scene where Woolsey's briefing them on the mission, McKay asks if there's anyone with advanced technology, and Woolsey says no. So it would seem the Travelers aren't a part of the Coalition either, at least, they weren't as of Inquisition.

On a related note, where are we going to have the Coalition holding their regular meetings? Still off-world? And how do they handle the location? Do they move the meetings around to avoid the Wraith? As the war with the Wraith continues to heat up, will the Coalition eventually want to move the regular meetings to Atlantis as it's more secure and essentially neutral territory to the Pegasus natives? Stuff to think about.

[Eri13]

Gah! Here we go with our psychic Siamese twins thing again! I was just thinking about this myself.

Aside from the Genii, the only new planets that are specifically named are those of the three representatives on the Coalition Council who are running Team Shep's "trial." There is a line "Soon enough, all of your current trading partners will have no choice but to join and therefore to abide by the ruling of this Council," so at least, at the time of Inquisition, not all of Pegasus has joined up yet. In the opening scene where Woolsey's briefing them on the mission, McKay asks if there's anyone with advanced technology, and Woolsey says no. So it would seem the Travelers aren't a part of the Coalition either, at least, they weren't as of Inquisition.

On a related note, where are we going to have the Coalition holding their regular meetings? Still off-world? And how do they handle the location? Do they move the meetings around to avoid the Wraith? As the war with the Wraith continues to heat up, will the Coalition eventually want to move the regular meetings to Atlantis as it's more secure and essentially neutral territory to the Pegasus natives? Stuff to think about.

So, what, are we like the Cooper & Wright of SS6? The Malozzi and Mullie? We need snappy handles if we're going to be that.

I really need to watch Inquisition to answer these questions best, but on the bullet points here's my opinion:

- Where are we going to have the Coalition holding their regular meetings? Still off-world?: I think so. I think it needs to be a completely neutral site, not even Atlantis. No ties to any race.

- And how do they handle the location? Do they move the meetings around to avoid the Wraith?: I think they make it a super secret location. Maybe someplace that requires a two-to-three gate jump to get to, or escorts at the gate. Or someplace like Immaria in Testament, or the Sanctuary in Epiphany, where the location is halfway across the planet from the gate and cloaked.

I always like the appeal of sekrit bases.

- As the war with the Wraith continues to heat up, will the Coalition eventually want to move the regular meetings to Atlantis as it's more secure and essentially neutral territory to the Pegasus natives?: My take on this, and this is just a suggestion, is to have the Coalition distrust Atlantis always. In a way, Atlantis, to me, is the big brother type that moved into the Pegasus galaxy with sort of the attitude of 'we have better weapons, better knowledge, better soldiers, and we KNOW how you should be protected'. Though they try to make an alliance with people, they kinda push their ways on people sometimes. If I were somebody like the Genii, and wanted to be a dominant race, I'd be indignant about their attitudes, because they're not Pegasus natives and never have been. Pegasus is my galaxy. I would completely want to take advantage of Atlantis's weapons and manpower, but never give them the chance to move in and be the leader of a Coalition-like group, because it would give non-Pegasus peoples too much power. So I wouldn't deign to allow them to be the meeting place for talks. Atlantis would have to come to when and where I call, not the other way around.

Now, overall, as a show developer I do think Atlantis ends up leading the Coalition in some way. But at this point, from the POV of the Coalition, I wouldn't want them to do it or give them the chance to--does that make sense?

As to races--in my mind, the Travelers will always be the renegades, so their not being in the Coalition doesn't surprise me. Who else can we, then, add? Hoffans are out, Taranans are out--what other races would make sense to bring up (and bring back) as a part of this? The Minerans should definitely be a part of it, just as thorns in the side. Maybe we can bring back sleazy dude from TS/TE.

[Southern Red]

On that hook - up JM was reffering to? One thing he said is that it was a possibility. As I said on a different thread today, possibilities don't always come true.

However, it's really simple determining what's canon. If you can't cap it, it's not canon. Alien induced abusive kisses don't count. I really can't find that particular possibility anywhere to cap it - but I can find another one - John/Elizabeth one

I love that slogan.

Back on Topic of SS6--does anyone have anything else to add about the Pegasus Coalition? What races should be included in this Coalition? I think we need to have them clearly defined. Whoever has watched Inquisition, can you let us know which races are featured?

Good idea. Those judges in that ep just came out of the blue. Here's the bit of dialogue that introduces them.

KELORE: I am Kelore of Latira.

(He looks at the woman.)

KELORE: This is Shiana of the Tribes of Santhal ... (he looks at the older man) ... and Dimas of the Free Peoples of Riva. We speak on behalf of the Coalition.


One can only assume there are other planets involved, but they all seem to be pre-industrial. What about the planets from The Game? Rodney's in particular was pretty advanced. And we know from Franibeth that there are industrial worlds out there. I think we need to find a few of them and add them to the coalition. The Genii and the Travelers certainly should be in. Maybe Harmony's planet also. She'd be a hoot dealing with the leaders of the Coalition.

[nephtys59]

Whoever has watched Inquisition, can you let us know which races are featured?

This are the name and tribes that appear in Inquisition:
- Kelore of Latira (connected with the Genii)
- Shiana of the Tribes of Santhal
- Dimas of the Free Peoples of Riva
- Myrus, referred only as a representative of the Coalition

[Lythisrose]

One can only assume there are other planets involved, but they all seem to be pre-industrial. What about the planets from The Game? Rodney's in particular was pretty advanced. And we know from Franibeth that there are industrial worlds out there. I think we need to find a few of them and add them to the coalition. The Genii and the Travelers certainly should be in. Maybe Harmony's planet also. She'd be a hoot dealing with the leaders of the Coalition.

Just have to say, LOVE this idea! I think she'd be on Atlantis' side and give the others a good tongue-lashing on occasion!

[Falcon Horus]

Of course, now that you've mentioned it here, you do realize that you'll have to post the link so we can see the pic, too, right? *giggles*

Of course, now that I've mentioned it... *facepalm* ... *tapes mouth shut with duck-tape*

Happy vacation Don't shut up - being out there, doing things, is what life is all about.

Yep. It's on GW, so it's all official like

*removes duck-tape*... Thank you!

And for Teyla, a part in me wanted to see her out of the show (sorry FH) because she wasn't use and I felt tired to see Rachel doing nothing. Another part in me, wanted to see something very interesting about her. Her pregnancy was useless. We saw nothing about it.

No need to apologize because I completely agree, and have said so on many occasions in the Rachel/Teyla thread too.

[nephtys59]

No need to apologize because I completely agree, and have said so on many occasions in the Rachel/Teyla thread too.

I think that Teyla's character had a lot of potential ... but they wasted it.
In 5 season her progress was near to ZERO.
Characters, to be interesting, need to evolve, especially when they have strong experiences like those of Stargate Atlantis.
She passed through a lot of things and she remained always the same.
That was her major problem. If a character had to be sacrificed to make a place for Carter-Woolsey, that was Teyla.
Not Elizabeth, damn it!

[Southern Red]

Of course, now that I've mentioned it... *facepalm* ... *tapes mouth shut with duck-tape*



*removes duck-tape*... Thank you!



No need to apologize because I completely agree, and have said so on many occasions in the Rachel/Teyla thread too.

Have you seen this thread? I fear for Teyla's character in the new books. She is being rewritten yet again.