Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Erin87]

Whoo Hoo! Congrats to us on 93,000 posts!

And SR, yay for snowplows!

*passes out champagne and red velvet cupcakes*

LOL, me too! It's just not fair that Sheppard can't rage against The Man.

And you just know that some people were totally ignoring the Big Red Elephant and thinking of Ford in both cases. And to be honest, it's true that he also fits, but really, which loss has hurt Sheppard more?

Bwahaha!

Spoiler:

Doh! I forgot the new milestone in that catchup post. Happy 93,000 Posts!!


(sry for double post)

[Scary Kitty]

Erin 87 and Falcon, what are you handles on LJ? I want to credit you properly if you want to be credited through your LJ handles too.

The post is up--take a look and let me know if that works for everyone. I thought we might want to explain what we're doing.

Yup, the post is working for me. And I am LOLing at the second part of that disclaimer!

On the absolutely fabulous discussion:

All those posts are MADE OF AWESOME!! I am seriously in awe of you all. Mental Green!

Something I think SK said about SGA having its great moments individually but lacking in the series as a whole... I definitely agree with this, and also say that SGA is a very sneaky show. Because like recently, when I was watching the last half of S5, I knew in my head that in comparison it wasn't as good as it used to be, but when I was actually watching the episodes I found myself really happy during moments. Mostly this was a scene with Rodney being Rodney, or Ronon saying something in his usual blunt way, and it struck me again how much I love this show. I guess that again just goes back to the pull of the characters and how much they make you come to care about them. I think Rodney in particular is a prime example of characters growing on you. Cause in the beginning (particularly when he was on SG-1) it was like 'Ack, McKay you're such a jerk!' and then by the time we get well into Atlantis it's just like 'Oh, Rodney', because it's him and it's just how he is and you've gotten used to it, much I guess like John and Liz did.

But yeah... stopping the ramble now.

Sneaky is right. There have certainly been points where, when watching an episode of S4-5 that didn't have Carter, Woolsey or Keller, I could pretend, just for a moment, that everything was back to normal and Elizabeth and Carson were back on Atlantis waiting to welcome Team Shep home.

Yeah, I can see that being a good reason for letting him go (unless we have him try to make an escape attempt with the plotting and cunning that we know he's capable of). And they'd probably try and put all these restrictions on him like a tracking device so they can keep tabs on him and such like that.

A tracking device in his back, just like the Wraith do to Runners like Ronon? That's so deliciously ironic!

And I definitely think it would freak Elizabeth out a little bit to see Teyla as a Wraith Queen (yet another unsettling reminder of how much has changed since she's been gone). That could be a large part of the 'Extinction' storyline like Eri mentioned, or depending on how things work out it could be perhaps a scene in some other episode to kind of show how Atlantis has been dealing continually with Todd since the beginning of the season. Maybe Teyla has gone several times to perform her little act as Todd's Queen and this is sort of a "normal" thing for them, but Elizabeth hasn't ever seen the actual transformation before. (maybe this could be another build up of stress that leads to 'House of Mirrors'?)

*bounces* I like this, I really really really like this! Ooooh, Elizabeth's gonna freak! Hahahah! *more bounces*

Oh, and I just thought of a possible way to make Teyla look like a Queen without having to have the surgery every time. On SG-1 they had these alien mimic devices. Perhaps Atlantis can get a hold of one and they can program it to Teyla's Wraith appearance?

Oooooh, mimic devices! That's a great solution!

[Scary Kitty]

ZOMG! It's... It's...

Bwahaha!
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...hantbutton.jpg

Doh! I forgot the new milestone in that catchup post. Happy 93,000 Posts!!
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...parkytoast.jpg

(sry for double post)

THE BIG RED ELEPHANT!

Ahahahahaha!

[Eri13]

Yup, the post is working for me. And I am LOLing at the second part of that disclaimer!

Sneaky is right. There have certainly been points where, when watching an episode of S4-5 that didn't have Carter, Woolsey or Keller, I could pretend, just for a moment, that everything was back to normal and Elizabeth and Carson were back on Atlantis waiting to welcome Team Shep home.

A tracking device in his back, just like the Wraith do to Runners like Ronon? That's so deliciously ironic!

*bounces* I like this, I really really really like this! Ooooh, Elizabeth's gonna freak! Hahahah! *more bounces*

Oooooh, mimic devices! That's a great solution!

Especially if she gets found out at some point! Maybe in Extinction, since we'll presumably be taking out most of the Wraith in that one. Another Grand reveal.

[Falcon Horus]

Erin 87 and Falcon, what are you handles on LJ? I want to credit you properly if you want to be credited through your LJ handles too.

Mine's the same as here except with an underscore in between both parts -> falcon_horus

The post is up--take a look and let me know if that works for everyone. I thought we might want to explain what we're doing.

It looks wicked!

COOL!!

Oh, and I just thought of a possible way to make Teyla look like a Queen without having to have the surgery every time. On SG-1 they had these alien mimic devices. Perhaps Atlantis can get a hold of one and they can program it to Teyla's Wraith appearance?

Mmm...there's a good idea. Since I think we can assume that plastic Wraith surgery just isn't the most comfortable of ways really...

And you just know that some people were totally ignoring the Big Red Elephant and thinking of Ford in both cases. And to be honest, it's true that he also fits, but really, which loss has hurt Sheppard more?

Kate's...

When pigs fly, hell freezes over, the sun rises in the west, and TPTW finally admit they frakked up.

I reckon the first two are more likely to happen than the latter.

I'm not holding my breath.

I bet you, you can't hold your breath for that long.

Nah, I don't think that's too much. Actually, some fic authors have done commentaries for their stories, like havocthecat's commentary on her story Ichneumonidae (opening fic of the Lantean Hive AU). I think other authors have done podcasts of reading their stories aloud. I can definitely see us doing stuff like that. Maybe even episodic soundtracks... any input from the music department?

SWEET!!

Love the Lantean Hive AU.

[Eri13]

Thanks! I've added both your LJ names and your forum names.

I appreciate the feedback on the post--the only thing for the journal I'd like now is a banner header that is unique, but a) I don't remember how to add your own banner and b) don't know if you can do it on a comm.

[Scary Kitty]

Mmm...there's a good idea. Since I think we can assume that plastic Wraith surgery just isn't the most comfortable of ways really...

And I could swear I heard something in the dialogue during The Queen that the process took something like two weeks. If an emergency came up and they needed her fast, that could be a big problem...

Kate's...

I reckon the first two are more likely to happen than the latter.



I bet you, you can't hold your breath for that long.

*snorts* I'm not taking that bet... I know I can't hold my breath for that long! LOL!

Love the Lantean Hive AU.

Me too. Bug!Lantis FTW!

Thanks! I've added both your LJ names and your forum names.

I appreciate the feedback on the post--the only thing for the journal I'd like now is a banner header that is unique, but a) I don't remember how to add your own banner and b) don't know if you can do it on a comm.

Yep, you can do it on a comm (the John/Elizabeth comm has one), though I don't know how to do it, either.

[Falcon Horus]

...b) don't know if you can do it on a comm.

Depends on the lay-out you chose for it (applies to a) also) but it is possible.

[drewandian]

RE LiveJournal banners and layouts....I have the directions in my email...who needs to know what? (I got a custom layout and header for Christmas from someone on my flist....complete with instructions on how to use them....)

[Southern Red]

Erin 87 and Falcon, what are you handles on LJ? I want to credit you properly if you want to be credited through your LJ handles too.

The post is up--take a look and let me know if that works for everyone. I thought we might want to explain what we're doing.

Love the new post. I'd like to get the word on our comm out to other groups but don't want to intrude where I'm not welcome. Anyone who frequents other threads is welcome to post the link and tell them it's not just Sparky. In fact I'd emphasize that the Sparky will be very low key for a good long while.

<lots of snips>

Oh, and I just thought of a possible way to make Teyla look like a Queen without having to have the surgery every time. On SG-1 they had these alien mimic devices. Perhaps Atlantis can get a hold of one and they can program it to Teyla's Wraith appearance?

This sounds like a good solution. I'm making a note of it.

RE LiveJournal banners and layouts....I have the directions in my email...who needs to know what? (I got a custom layout and header for Christmas from someone on my flist....complete with instructions on how to use them....)

Great. I'd like to know. Can you post it here since so many people need the info?

[Reiko]

Wow! Thank you for everyone who replied to my post with thoughtful, detailed responses. (Lots of you are going to get greens. If I can green you!) I certainly agreed with many of the points you brought up.in your posts, and many of the examples you provided refreshed my memory of scenes in the series that I had easily forgotten about. I felt inclined to respond, but when I began to type up a reply I realized I was only rehashing my old points form before.

Anyhow.

Falcon Horus -- I viewed your trailer yesterday, but I don't recall making a comment about it. One thing that I really liked about your trailer was that one of the first images you used was that of Atlantis rising in episode one. It's one of my favourite images in the series, and I think it represents a premise of the Sparky project -- a "getting back to basics" of sorts. Going back to what Atlantis was supposed to be (or should have been) from the start in season one before it veered off in all kinds of crazy directions. There's no image that's so fitting. I don't know if you were thinking of this when you were creating your trailer, but anyways -- good touch!

Speaking of the premiere episode, I actually watched part of "Rising" today. First Stargate Atlantis in over a year! While I was watching, something struck me. It wasn't the first time it struck me -- in fact, I think it was mentioned on the Sparky thread if I recall -- but it was the first time that I had really thought in-depth about it.

It's the image of Elizabeth about to step into the gate. (picture spoiled for size).

Spoiler:

Many of us recalled this image when we saw "Ghost in the Machine". (again, spoiled for size).

Spoiler:

In both literature and film, the storyteller will often employ the use of parallel imagery as a sort of motif. (I don't know what it's actually called , but parallel imagery is what I'm calling it). Basically, it's the repetition of an image, but each use of the image may be in a different situation or setting. When the viewer (or reader) recalls the original image (even subconciously), the repeated images carry "weight" or deeper meaning. Lots of films use this technique to convey concepts. Schindler's List is the first thing that comes to mind -- I wrote a short essay (for a history class!) on it last year. Lord of the Rings did it a lot ... Even the last scene with River in the Serenity film recalls her first scene in Firefly (though it's a bit of a stretch). A purely television example is the "Bad Wolf" motif in Doctor Who.

Now, Elizabeth stepping through the gate in "Ghost in the Machine" almost directly mirrors the scene in "Rising". Now, the framing of the image is different, but the general composition is identical, and we're reminded of the first time we saw Elizabeth step through the gate. We recall this moment when we see Fran/Elizabeth in GitM, but the circumstances are completely different this time around: it's the last time Elizabeth steps through the gate. The parallel image makes us remember a scene from five seasons ago.

Another notable difference between the two images (besides the circumstance) is the expression on Elizabeth's face. The first expression carries a sense of uncertainty, even trepidation; she doesn't know what she's going to find on her journey, and she certainly doesn't know anything about the man that just joined her expedition! In the second image, however, she isn't just calm -- she's smiling in spite of her situation! And we all know who she's smiling at. Unlike before, she knows John now; he's become her closest friend. And so somehow, I think that she takes some comfort in that and that he will come and find her.

Yes? No? I'm imagining things? After all, I can't believe I just analyzed Stargate for it's artistic merits...

[Southern Red]

Wow! Thank you for everyone who replied to my post with thoughtful, detailed responses. (Lots of you are going to get greens. If I can green you!) I certainly agreed with many of the points you brought up.in your posts, and many of the examples you provided refreshed my memory of scenes in the series that I had easily forgotten about. I felt inclined to respond, but when I began to type up a reply I realized I was only rehashing my old points form before.

Anyhow.

Falcon Horus -- I viewed your trailer yesterday, but I don't recall making a comment about it. One thing that I really liked about your trailer was that one of the first images you used was that of Atlantis rising in episode one. It's one of my favourite images in the series, and I think it represents a premise of the Sparky project -- a "getting back to basics" of sorts. Going back to what Atlantis was supposed to be (or should have been) from the start in season one before it veered off in all kinds of crazy directions. There's no image that's so fitting. I don't know if you were thinking of this when you were creating your trailer, but anyways -- good touch!

Speaking of the premiere episode, I actually watched part of "Rising" today. First Stargate Atlantis in over a year! While I was watching, something struck me. It wasn't the first time it struck me -- in fact, I think it was mentioned on the Sparky thread if I recall -- but it was the first time that I had really thought in-depth about it.

It's the image of Elizabeth about to step into the gate. (picture spoiled for size).

Spoiler:

Many of us recalled this image when we saw "Ghost in the Machine". (again, spoiled for size).

Spoiler:

In both literature and film, the storyteller will often employ the use of parallel imagery as a sort of motif. (I don't know what it's actually called , but parallel imagery is what I'm calling it). Basically, it's the repetition of an image, but each use of the image may be in a different situation or setting. When the viewer (or reader) recalls the original image (even subconciously), the repeated images carry "weight" or deeper meaning. Lots of films use this technique to convey concepts. Schindler's List is the first thing that comes to mind -- I wrote a short essay (for a history class!) on it last year. Lord of the Rings did it a lot ... Even the last scene with River in the Serenity film recalls her first scene in Firefly (though it's a bit of a stretch). A purely television example is the "Bad Wolf" motif in Doctor Who.

Now, Elizabeth stepping through the gate in "Ghost in the Machine" almost directly mirrors the scene in "Rising". Now, the framing of the image is different, but the general composition is identical, and we're reminded of the first time we saw Elizabeth step through the gate. We recall this moment when we see Fran/Elizabeth in GitM, but the circumstances are completely different this time around: it's the last time Elizabeth steps through the gate. The parallel image makes us remember a scene from five seasons ago.

Another notable difference between the two images (besides the circumstance) is the expression on Elizabeth's face. The first expression carries a sense of uncertainty, even trepidation; she doesn't know what she's going to find on her journey, and she certainly doesn't know anything about the man that just joined her expedition! In the second image, however, she isn't just calm -- she's smiling in spite of her situation! And we all know who she's smiling at. Unlike before, she knows John now; he's become her closest friend. And so somehow, I think that she takes some comfort in that and that he will come and find her.

Yes? No? I'm imagining things? After all, I can't believe I just analyzed Stargate for it's artistic merits...

I didn't make the connection between these two particular images before now but you are so on the money. Another such case of parallelism is the first balcony scene between John and Elizabeth in Rising and the balcony scene between John and Carter when she told him he needed to come up with a plan to rescue Elizabeth. The odd thing about that scene was that in the first instance circumstances, i.e. finding the jumpers, led to it being possible for the rescue. But in the second instance the rescue never occurred. If they had been trying to tie up loose ends and connect the two scenes they should have come up with a plausible situation that would allow her to be rescued. Made of fail once again.

And of course the strong connection between John and Elizabeth ties both scenes together. The idea that she left thinking that he would come for her is almost too much. Knowing that he failed her and still wondering if it really was her and hoping that maybe it wasn't must have torn him apart.

[drewandian]

Love the new post. I'd like to get the word on our comm out to other groups but don't want to intrude where I'm not welcome. Anyone who frequents other threads is welcome to post the link and tell them it's not just Sparky. In fact I'd emphasize that the Sparky will be very low key for a good long while.



This sounds like a good solution. I'm making a note of it.



Great. I'd like to know. Can you post it here since so many people need the info?

I'll dig it up and get it posted....I know it's in my email somewhere....

EDIT: OK...found it...

Spoiler:

.but it's specific to the layout created for me...most of the directions are probably pretty general though and any layout you choose will probably include the specifics for that layout...


Instructions to Install Your New Layout


- Upload all the images (tiny icons, header) to your own server;



- Open the file named ‘Cleaned CSS’ and replace all the red parts with the proper image URLs as indicated;



- Make sure you are using S2 style by checking here: http://www.livejournal.com/customize/switch_system.bml;



- Go to LJ customize: http://www.livejournal.com/customize/;



- Put “Flexible Squares” in the search bar and apply it;
this is specific to my layout...each layout will probably include which base layout you need

- If you have a Plus Account, scroll down to ‘Choose a Page Setup’ and on the dropbox, select ‘Vertical’;



- Still at ‘Choose a Page Setup’, apply the layout ‘2 Column (sidebar on the right)’;



- Go to ‘Customize Selected Theme’ by clicking on the button on the bottom right corner of the page;



- Go to ‘Custom CSS’ and set all drop-down menus to NO.



- Copy and paste all the code of the ‘Cleaned CSS’ file into the box labeled ‘custom stylesheet’ and hit ‘Save Changes’.

I hope this makes sense...if not, I can try to explain it better...it took a couple tries for me to get it to work the first time I tried it

[Southern Red]

I'll dig it up and get it posted....I know it's in my email somewhere....

Thanks love.

OT stuff.

Spoiler:

My friend is still doing well but sarcastic idiot that I am I found humor in the fact that they took part of her abdomen fat and tissue to make a new breast. I managed to not say anything in my reply to her husband's email but had to say it here or burst. I have enough for at least a D cup. Plus I could use her pain pump to get me through this friggin' snowstorm. Now I feel better. Please don't judge me. I know her and at some point we'll laugh together.

[Scary Kitty]

Love the new post. I'd like to get the word on our comm out to other groups but don't want to intrude where I'm not welcome. Anyone who frequents other threads is welcome to post the link and tell them it's not just Sparky. In fact I'd emphasize that the Sparky will be very low key for a good long while.

Hmm, on the LJ front, the John/Elizabeth comm would be a good place, as would be Lost City Found (except I'm not a member there... guess I'll have to remedy that).

Speaking of the premiere episode, I actually watched part of "Rising" today. First Stargate Atlantis in over a year! While I was watching, something struck me. It wasn't the first time it struck me -- in fact, I think it was mentioned on the Sparky thread if I recall -- but it was the first time that I had really thought in-depth about it.

It's the image of Elizabeth about to step into the gate. (picture spoiled for size).

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...l_101_0696.JPG

Many of us recalled this image when we saw "Ghost in the Machine". (again, spoiled for size).

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb..._PDVD_1241.JPG

In both literature and film, the storyteller will often employ the use of parallel imagery as a sort of motif. (I don't know what it's actually called , but parallel imagery is what I'm calling it). Basically, it's the repetition of an image, but each use of the image may be in a different situation or setting. When the viewer (or reader) recalls the original image (even subconciously), the repeated images carry "weight" or deeper meaning. Lots of films use this technique to convey concepts. Schindler's List is the first thing that comes to mind -- I wrote a short essay (for a history class!) on it last year. Lord of the Rings did it a lot ... Even the last scene with River in the Serenity film recalls her first scene in Firefly (though it's a bit of a stretch). A purely television example is the "Bad Wolf" motif in Doctor Who.

Now, Elizabeth stepping through the gate in "Ghost in the Machine" almost directly mirrors the scene in "Rising". Now, the framing of the image is different, but the general composition is identical, and we're reminded of the first time we saw Elizabeth step through the gate. We recall this moment when we see Fran/Elizabeth in GitM, but the circumstances are completely different this time around: it's the last time Elizabeth steps through the gate. The parallel image makes us remember a scene from five seasons ago.

Another notable difference between the two images (besides the circumstance) is the expression on Elizabeth's face. The first expression carries a sense of uncertainty, even trepidation; she doesn't know what she's going to find on her journey, and she certainly doesn't know anything about the man that just joined her expedition! In the second image, however, she isn't just calm -- she's smiling in spite of her situation! And we all know who she's smiling at. Unlike before, she knows John now; he's become her closest friend. And so somehow, I think that she takes some comfort in that and that he will come and find her.

Yes? No? I'm imagining things? After all, I can't believe I just analyzed Stargate for it's artistic merits...

What you're thinking of (in the parallel imagery idea) is a leitmotif. And no, you're not imagining things. I think I may have noticed the parallel of the 'stepping through the gate' moments, but I never really focused too closely on it before. Good catch!

And what do you mean, you can't believe you just analyzed Stargate for it's artistic merits? Isn't that what we do everyday? LOL!

I didn't make the connection between these two particular images before now but you are so on the money. Another such case of parallelism is the first balcony scene between John and Elizabeth in Rising and the balcony scene between John and Carter when she told him he needed to come up with a plan to rescue Elizabeth. The odd thing about that scene was that in the first instance circumstances, i.e. finding the jumpers, led to it being possible for the rescue. But in the second instance the rescue never occurred. If they had been trying to tie up loose ends and connect the two scenes they should have come up with a plausible situation that would allow her to be rescued. Made of fail once again.

And of course the strong connection between John and Elizabeth ties both scenes together. The idea that she left thinking that he would come for her is almost too much. Knowing that he failed her and still wondering if it really was her and hoping that maybe it wasn't must have torn him apart.

Fail, indeed. Total broken parallel. Your last line, about 'knowing that he failed her' and all... we really must dig into that in SS6. To the point where he screams in agony. Not to be vindictive or anything... it's just something that he's going to have to deal with if we're ever going to get them together in Season 7 and beyond.