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**Eri13** · 23 January 2010, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Well, well, well! Eri's been having a busy day! Not only is she updating the SS6 comm, she's also updated her fic, Testament!

Spoiler:

Glad you like it! Frankly...

Spoiler:

**Scary Kitty** · 23 January 2010, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Anuna View Post

That's certainly not what I had in mind.

Well, it might be language barrier. I certainly didn't have the equivalent of candle light sauna in mind when I said 'bikini', because I mean't "something you wear on the beach" - you were all talking about surfing. Bikini was obviously the wrong word to use, but to me bikini is an equivalent of a bathing suit. It doesn't necessarily have to be sexualized.

Heh! Don't worry, I knew you were simply talking about the kind of clothing she'd wear on a beach; obviously one wears a bathing suit at the beach, and a bikini is one kind of bathing suit, so I honestly didn't see that choice as being intentionally sexual in nature, either. Since the discussion had kind of veered off into whether it was "too sexual" of an image, I was just pointing out that if one did see it as sexual in nature even with the context of John's real-life physical/mental state at the time of having that hallucination, then they'd have to view the S&R hallucination scene as sexual as well. You know, comparing similarities in the circumstances and all that.

Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

Well I suppose you probably are correct about the focus he got, but frankly he was still there enough that I personally can never see SGA as anything but mainly "his" show. Even if Rodney, for example, surpassed him in screen time and stories, his importance to the show isn't at all as great as John's. Flanigan is really the only one that came across like he was the actual show lead, even if the writers enjoyed using Hewlett more often.

Oh, I definitely understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Glad you like it! Frankly...

Spoiler:

**Southern Red** · 23 January 2010, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Probie View Post

Nice to meet you! lol

Where is Rodney in this season? There is an episode for everyone but not for him. I know we had a lot of Rodney during season 5 but not here. Oh maybe I missed your conversation about him. If it's the case, forget what I say.

SR: Can't work tomorrow. I will watch "Avatar" with friends. Don't be worry, you will have your coffee. Joe called me and he said he will be in our studio tomorrow. I asked him if he can bring your coffee. He was Ok.

If I can have a day like that every day, you don't need to ever come to work. But not to worry, your job is safe. He knows I like a little cream in my coffee, right? Oooh, I can't wait until tomorrow.

Frankly, if we can do S5 with only 1/3 a Shepisode then Rodney can get skipped all together in S6. But that may just be me.

Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

You guys are the writers, so of course you can decide but,
personally I think Sheppard did have some development after GitM. Obviously it was fairly muted and a large part of it was Flanigan's acting (some of it must have been scripted obviously) but I believe the dark and depressed trend he had fallen into after Season 3 became even more pronounced. Remnants was a good episode for him after Ghost in the Machine. It was really the only time his inner struggle came closest to being at the forefront of a story (even though technically it was the B plot). "You torture yourself everyday, John." That was the most obvious and over part written into his character evolution in that episode. I felt his desperation became even greater when crises begin to spiral out of control. And I think he became even more unwilling to accept any possibility of losing his friends. In Outsiders for one example, he arguably crossed an even bigger line than ever before to save them. In Prodigal you hear him say "Let me know when he wakes up" after hearing than Ronon was hurt or possibly worse by Michael. In EatG he never really had any reason to go back to save Ronon considering what McKay must have told him, but he went anyway. And I noticed he seemed to volunteer for more near suicide missions than usual, for whatever that is worth. I figured because the loss of Elizabeth hit him very hard, but then having her return and then squandering what must have seemed a miraculous "second chance," pushed him to drive himself even harder than before.

Alright... I laughed

.

I meant to mention Remnants, but again he only got 1/3 of the ep. And the best part about Elizabeth got cut. He should have had an entire episode all for him and about him only. I remember once hearing that JF said he complained about this very thing to TPTB and they told him that he was the star and that every episode was about him. I don't think he bought it either.

You made some good points about how JF portrayed John's feelings but I really don't think much of it was scripted, particularly the parts about Elizabeth.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Well, I think SR was speaking more in terms of how much real focus time was devoted to Sheppard, who is supposedly the "hero" of the show, played by the actor with top billing on the cast, and all that. We definitely saw moments showing the continuation of Sheppard's downward spiral, but with the exception of Vegas (which is still an AU, even though it gives us great insight into what Sheppard could be like) and the B-storyline in Remnants, he didn't really get character-specific stories in Season 5. Most of his screen time was him reacting to what was happening with everyone else.

But you've hit on a great point with all of those moments and how they show that Sheppard is gradually getting more and more desperate and reckless. I think that ties in very well with Eri's suggestion about writing John getting "more aggressive" with his feelings and "suffering emotional overload" about what having Elizabeth back will do to him. *shivers* This'll be fun.

Yeah, and when we learn more about our hero in an AU than our real hero in 5 years, something is very very wrong.

Originally posted by Anuna View Post

That's certainly not what I had in mind.

Well, it might be language barrier. I certainly didn't have the equivalent of candle light sauna in mind when I said 'bikini', because I mean't "something you wear on the beach" - you were all talking about surfing. Bikini was obviously the wrong word to use, but to me bikini is an equivalent of a bathing suit. It doesn't necessarily have to be sexualized.

It must be a cultural thing. A bikini is a tiny little thing. Bathing suits come in all shapes and sizes. It could also be part of the American reluctance to be nude in public. Those nude beaches in Spain just shocked my shoes off. OMG.

Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

Well I suppose you probably are correct about the focus he got, but frankly he was still there enough that I personally can never see SGA as anything but mainly "his" show. Even if Rodney, for example, surpassed him in screen time and stories, his importance to the show isn't at all as great as John's. Flanigan is really the only one that came across like he was the actual show lead, even if the writers enjoyed using Hewlett more often.

See now I see it totally the opposite in S5. Hewlett may as well have been the star for all the emphasis he got. The only way I would have known Flanigan was the lead was that his name came first. I think a lot of his fans agreed with me. He was not used in a way to showcase his talent properly and I don't think it was by choice. But I also admit to a bit of residual bitterness.

**Eri13** · 23 January 2010, 07:34 PM

SO, ZOMG *flails* You guys are both incredibly creative and very long-winded. 29 PAGES OF NOTES I HAVE TO SORT THROUGH!! That's what copy/pasting the forum notes from the SS6 discussion got me in my version of Word. 29 PAGES! *flails more*

I shall organize ASAP.

And I have another idea based on Falcon Horus's suggestion of Aliens who don't speak english--and episode I'd like to write if approved. It'll be episode 13 (right after the Jeannie/nanites/lockdown episode). I've already got the precredits scene:

[INT - Atlantis. Daytime]
Elizabeth is walking down the Gateroom steps with Richard Woolsey. She wears a (different color) shirt from the rest of the expedition.

Spoiler:

**Scary Kitty** · 23 January 2010, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Frankly, if we can do S5 with only 1/3 a Shepisode then Rodney can get skipped all together in S6. But that may just be me.

Awwww, Rodney's gotta get some love too... if by 'love,' I mean Ronon snarking at him, Sheppard doing a Gibbs head slap on him, and Teyla just rolling her eyes and hoping she doesn't have to pull them all apart by the scruffs of their necks. Ahhh, siblings.

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Yeah, and when we learn more about our hero in an AU than our real hero in 5 years, something is very very wrong.

Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase, 'something is rotten in the state of Denmark.'

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

SO, ZOMG *flails* You guys are both incredibly creative and very long-winded. 29 PAGES OF NOTES I HAVE TO SORT THROUGH!! That's what copy/pasting the forum notes from the SS6 discussion got me in my version of Word. 29 PAGES! *flails more*

I shall organize ASAP.

*cackles and rubs hands together gleefully*

Also, Eri? I've been working on a timeline of the entire Atlantis series (including the novels, short stories and audio dramas just for reference). It's still pretty rough and needs more filling out for the Season 4 and 5 episodes, but if you think it'll be helpful at all to know when certain things happened (for example, X episode happened Y days/weeks before Z episode), I can send you what I've got so far.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

And I have another idea based on Falcon Horus's suggestion of Aliens who don't speak english--and episode I'd like to write if approved. It'll be episode 13 (right after the Jeannie/nanites/lockdown episode). I've already got the precredits scene:

[INT - Atlantis. Daytime]
Elizabeth is walking down the Gateroom steps with Richard Woolsey. She wears a (different color) shirt from the rest of the expedition.

Spoiler:

Oooh, that sounds like fun!

And yes, that's a good point about Elizabeth's uniform color. As we all know, the divisions of the expedition are color-coded:

Red - Administration
Black - Military/Security
Blue - Sciences
Yellow - Medical
Green - Technical Support (gateroom techs like Chuck and Amelia)

Note that Teyla's jackets, both the S1-3 style and the S4-5 style, have been trimmed in red. I'm assuming that's because "Administration" would be the closest description to her position as the Athosians' representative in Atlantis. Wouldn't this mean that Elizabeth would still be wearing Administration red as she would still be serving in the expedition as a diplomat, even though she's no longer expedition commander?

**Erin87** · 23 January 2010, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

SO, ZOMG *flails* You guys are both incredibly creative and very long-winded. 29 PAGES OF NOTES I HAVE TO SORT THROUGH!! That's what copy/pasting the forum notes from the SS6 discussion got me in my version of Word. 29 PAGES! *flails more*

I shall organize ASAP.

And I have another idea based on Falcon Horus's suggestion of Aliens who don't speak english--and episode I'd like to write if approved. It'll be episode 13 (right after the Jeannie/nanites/lockdown episode). I've already got the precredits scene:

[INT - Atlantis. Daytime]
Elizabeth is walking down the Gateroom steps with Richard Woolsey. She wears a (different color) shirt from the rest of the expedition.

Spoiler:

*squees* Aw, I like that a lot! It's so very episode-y!

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Awwww, Rodney's gotta get some love too... if by 'love,' I mean Ronon snarking at him, Sheppard doing a Gibbs head slap on him, and Teyla just rolling her eyes and hoping she doesn't have to pull them all apart by the scruffs of their necks. Ahhh, siblings.

Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase, 'something is rotten in the state of Denmark.'

*cackles and rubs hands together gleefully*

Also, Eri? I've been working on a timeline of the entire Atlantis series (including the novels, short stories and audio dramas just for reference). It's still pretty rough and needs more filling out for the Season 4 and 5 episodes, but if you think it'll be helpful at all to know when certain things happened (for example, X episode happened Y days/weeks before Z episode), I can send you what I've got so far.

Oooh, that sounds like fun!

And yes, that's a good point about Elizabeth's uniform color. As we all know, the divisions of the expedition are color-coded:

Red - Administration
Black - Military/Security
Blue - Sciences
Yellow - Medical
Green - Technical Support (gateroom techs like Chuck and Amelia)

Note that Teyla's jackets, both the S1-3 style and the S4-5 style, have been trimmed in red. I'm assuming that's because "Administration" would be the closest description to her position as the Athosians' representative in Atlantis. Wouldn't this mean that Elizabeth would still be wearing Administration red as she would still be serving in the expedition as a diplomat, even though she's no longer expedition commander?

Hmm, I guess she would. But I suppose since she's got a brand new position that no one's ever had before we could always come up with a different color for her. Not sure what though. Seems like most of them have already been taken. lol.

And what do you all think of 'First Year' as the title for the Athosian/Torren ep? Not particularly original, but I've never been very good with titles.

**pkprd869** · 23 January 2010, 08:48 PM

SR you wound me! Not all male fantasies of beautiful women in bikini's are sexual. Geez, what's next, "Boys lie"?

Anyways, I do think Shep imagining Lizzie in a bikini infers sexual attraction. It's an easy way to let the audience realize he has some kind of romantic feelings. I concur that it be done tastefully. I think a bikini top with one of those wraps for the bottom (I don't know what they're called, I know little of womens' clothing) would do. (SK I think green would work best. Brings out her eyes and plays up that little red cast in her hair) If we really want to play up the romantic feelings, it can be the last part of his hallucination. Lizzie gives John a comforting smile, which I think would add an emotional significance, while glancing over her shoulder (Love this suggestion from an earlier post.)

As far as playing sparky toward physical or emotional, it walks the line. But that's what is great about it. I agree their dynamic would be Shep being protective and at a loss for words and Lizzie being somewhat aloof. Some folks are going to emphasize the physical part, others the emotional part. To use the previous "white sundress-on the waves-with setting sun" example, some will see it as romantic. Others will see it as Aphrodite (Venus if you prefer) using nature to show the glory of her physical charms view.

Oh, and Lizzie in a bikini (or bathing suit) would make all the boys' hearts tin-a-ling. She'd get the grandest of Kit Cat Club toasts. (Eri as an English major you better get this reference

)

**Scary Kitty** · 23 January 2010, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Erin87 View Post

Hmm, I guess she would. But I suppose since she's got a brand new position that no one's ever had before we could always come up with a different color for her. Not sure what though. Seems like most of them have already been taken. lol.

Well, it's not that no one's ever had that position before; she also performed those duties while she was expedition commander (Sanctuary, Condemned, Inferno, Progeny, The Game)... she's just not wearing the expedition commander's hat in addition to the diplomat hat anymore.

I briefly thought of white... but then I remembered that both medical and tech support personnel have been seeing wearing white shirts. *headdesk*

Originally posted by Erin87 View Post

And what do you all think of 'First Year' as the title for the Athosian/Torren ep? Not particularly original, but I've never been very good with titles.

Hey, it fits with the reason for the ceremony, and thus, why everyone's on the mainland with the Athosians. Works for me!

Originally posted by pkprd869 View Post

SR you wound me! Not all male fantasies of beautiful women in bikini's are sexual. Geez, what's next, "Boys lie"?

Anyways, I do think Shep imagining Lizzie in a bikini infers sexual attraction. It's an easy way to let the audience realize he has some kind of romantic feelings. I concur that it be done tastefully. I think a bikini top with one of those wraps for the bottom (I don't know what they're called, I know little of womens' clothing) would do. (SK I think green would work best. Brings out her eyes and plays up that little red cast in her hair) If we really want to play up the romantic feelings, it can be the last part of his hallucination. Lizzie gives John a comforting smile, which I think would add an emotional significance, while glancing over her shoulder (Love this suggestion from an earlier post.)

'Wraps for the bottom?' You mean a sarong. Ooooh, that could work. A long one with a hem that floats around her ankles and shows a flash of leg. Hinting at it without really seeing all of it. Hmm, I may need to draw up a costume rendering and see what everyone thinks...

Originally posted by pkprd869 View Post

As far as playing sparky toward physical or emotional, it walks the line. But that's what is great about it. I agree their dynamic would be Shep being protective and at a loss for words and Lizzie being somewhat aloof. Some folks are going to emphasize the physical part, others the emotional part. To use the previous "white sundress-on the waves-with setting sun" example, some will see it as romantic. Others will see it as Aphrodite (Venus if you prefer) using nature to show the glory of her physical charms view.

*salutes pkprd's lovely classic mythological comparison*

Originally posted by pkprd869 View Post

Oh, and Lizzie in a bikini (or bathing suit) would make all the boys' hearts tin-a-ling. She'd get the grandest of Kit Cat Club toasts. (Eri as an English major you better get this reference

)

*snickers*

**pkprd869** · 23 January 2010, 10:03 PM

SK glad I'm not the only one awake! Cycling back to nights sucks. But I am making chicken cordon bleu's. (A man's got to have a lunch to bring to work.) A sarong is what those tie-wrap things that create a classy yet sexy slit are called? Sounds good to me. I think too long could make Lizzie look too short. If I had to guess Lizzie is between 5'7" and 5'10". (For our SI friends that's 170.18cm and 177.80cm). That is average to tall for a North American gal. Maybe top of knee to mid-calf would be nice. Can't wait for your costume sketch to find out!

ETA: Maybe you could call your Torren ep "Christening". I know it has a religious connotation, but I imagine the Athoseans call upon the "Ancestors" and whatnot making it appear to have some religious overtones.

**Scary Kitty** · 23 January 2010, 10:40 PM

Oooh, I found this one! It's a one piece instead of a bikini, and the photo is kinda cut short, but it looks like the sarong falls about to the knee...

**pkprd869** · 23 January 2010, 10:55 PM

SK that's HAWT! I like the one piece, classy and sexy.

**Lt.Colonel John Sheppard** · 24 January 2010, 12:55 AM

hey guys how's it going?

**Fionnait** · 24 January 2010, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

It must be a cultural thing. A bikini is a tiny little thing. Bathing suits come in all shapes and sizes. It could also be part of the American reluctance to be nude in public. Those nude beaches in Spain just shocked my shoes off. OMG.

Here in Germany we have plenty of nude beaches, campsites... And I remember gathering really odd looks in the sauna in Ireland, because I asked if your bathing suit wasn't going to melt or something. Because I don't think there are sauna's in Germany where you don't go naked. It's all a cultural thing, I suppose.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

And yes, that's a good point about Elizabeth's uniform color. As we all know, the divisions of the expedition are color-coded:

Red - Administration
Black - Military/Security
Blue - Sciences
Yellow - Medical
Green - Technical Support (gateroom techs like Chuck and Amelia)

Note that Teyla's jackets, both the S1-3 style and the S4-5 style, have been trimmed in red. I'm assuming that's because "Administration" would be the closest description to her position as the Athosians' representative in Atlantis. Wouldn't this mean that Elizabeth would still be wearing Administration red as she would still be serving in the expedition as a diplomat, even though she's no longer expedition commander?

I don't think that her wearing a different colour than anyone else would work. Her position is administrative enough for her to be still wearing red.

@SK I like the dress, but I think a darker forest green would look nicer. If the episode is before Elizabeth's return, though, I would strongly vote for a white dress that makes her look etheral.

**Southern Red** · 24 January 2010, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

SO, ZOMG *flails* You guys are both incredibly creative and very long-winded. 29 PAGES OF NOTES I HAVE TO SORT THROUGH!! That's what copy/pasting the forum notes from the SS6 discussion got me in my version of Word. 29 PAGES! *flails more*

I shall organize ASAP.

And I have another idea based on Falcon Horus's suggestion of Aliens who don't speak english--and episode I'd like to write if approved. It'll be episode 13 (right after the Jeannie/nanites/lockdown episode). I've already got the precredits scene:

[INT - Atlantis. Daytime]
Elizabeth is walking down the Gateroom steps with Richard Woolsey. She wears a (different color) shirt from the rest of the expedition.

Spoiler:

I love this. It's very Daniel Jackson. And on the color. I agree that she should no longer wear red in deference to Woolsey. If you want to place her in the command structure, it would need to be some shade of red. Pink would be logical but too cutsey. Orange is just a no. Something like salmon or peach also just a no. I guess she would technically be a scientist so blue would work but not the usual scientist blue. Maybe aqua or purple? Actually I like purple.

**nephtys59** · 24 January 2010, 05:46 AM

I agree, we have to change Elizabeth's dress colours, we had too much red in the past.
I think she looks great in white, for example. Aqua would also be great.
And please, leave Elizabeth with longer hair.
I think that the Elizabeth of Season 3 was really beautiful with longer hair and I wondered how Sheppard could resist and not kiss her

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