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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
    i didn't know that what episode are u guys watching today? you know my favorite Season 4 Moment was when that clone weir revealed herself to our sheppard and mckay and the look on John's face when he saw her was priceless like he was shocked to see her. that moment and the one in Lifeline. i tried to watch some season 5 episodes *cough enemy at the gate cough* and tried to put in elizabeth in woolsey's position and it was hard to do.
    Hubby is working late today and we're going out tomorrow, so it will be Thursday before we get back to it. We are going through them in order no matter what, so S&R will be next.

    Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
    i remember a while back people were talking about having the nanites infect john and stuff and that season 4 and 5 was just a dream and i was thinking back to the episode "home" with the whole double fake out and i was thinking to myself what if the rest of the series was just a fake out by that mist. and when they woke up john knew what was going to happen for the next 4 years.
    Now that would be a great idea for the movie but too Dallas for the fans to accept it.
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      i forgot dallas had something like that with Bobby and his wife.

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        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
        We're watching the DVD's to avoid the commercials. LOL

        We watched TLM yesterday. After all this time, re-watching it was interesting. DH did a masterful job playing old Rodney as a bit quieter and more subdued. JF reminded me a bit of John from TS/TE. He was all action and hurry up. Though I did find his reaction to hearing about how everybody died a bit off. Maybe it was bad news overload or maybe just M&M's writing. The flashbacks though I thought were very well written, especially Ronon's. Michael was a little mustache twirly and McKeller was still icky but overall I think it worked as a story. I thought John's line to Rodney about how things might not turn out the same was foreshadowing but it wasn't except for Jennifer dying. Oh well. That's how the cookie crumbles.

        And I couldn't help but think how cool it would have been if the hologram had been Elizabeth.
        TLM was not an horrible episode like "Harmony" or "Trio". I can't say I like it but I didn't have problem to watch it. I agree. David Hewlett did a great job.
        The idea of Elizabeth as hologram is excellent. What they didn't think of it?
        I remember to read a fic where John asks old Rodney how he can save Elizabeth. They had several opportunities to include Elizabeth but thay didn't take them.

        Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
        i didn't know that what episode are u guys watching today? you know my favorite Season 4 Moment was when that clone weir revealed herself to our sheppard and mckay and the look on John's face when he saw her was priceless like he was shocked to see her. that moment and the one in Lifeline. i tried to watch some season 5 episodes *cough enemy at the gate cough* and tried to put in elizabeth in woolsey's position and it was hard to do.
        EATG is the funniest episode of the show. In one episode, TPTB broke the image of the Anciens and everything they did during 5 years. (lot of inconsistencies, stupid ideas,.....). And the french title is a joke. I don't know who chose the title for France but this episode is called "The Empire Strikes Back". It's was a fan of Star Wars I think.lol
        SGA has one of the best pilot on all TV shows but SGA has also the worst final. (just my opinion of course)

        Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
        i remember a while back people were talking about having the nanites infect john and stuff and that season 4 and 5 was just a dream and i was thinking back to the episode "home" with the whole double fake out and i was thinking to myself what if the rest of the series was just a fake out by that mist. and when they woke up john knew what was going to happen for the next 4 years.
        I have to say that I hate this idea. I'm not a fan of "It was a dream."

        Hey! I realized that I'm going to see Muse this weekend. I'm so happy.
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          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
          LOVE THAT SCENE! And I love Torri the whole episode. It cracks me up that she decided to distinguish between "Phoebus-Elizabeth" and "real Elizabeth" by having a few strands of her hair hang down over her face.
          I'm rewatching TLG (again....) and the scene where Thalen imprints on John is hands down one of my favorite scenes of all time!!!! And I've listened to the commentary, and I love that Torri kinda makes fun of the fact that her hair is NEVER out of place, except for in this ep when she's Pheobus.


          I'm with pretty much everyone else--I think there is so much trust built up in the Atlantis expedition that no one initially second-guesses their friends initially (same thing happens with Teyla in Submersion, where she's giving all the creepy looks during her possession and no one seems to notice).

          So Lorne sorta gives the benefit of the doubt until it becomes obvious. *shrugs*
          In watching again, I kinda see your point...if it had been pretty much anyone else who'd met her in the hall, they may have questioned it, but Lorne is certainly 100% military and therefore wouldn't think twice...it's his job to simply follow orders and not question them (like the good little military boy he is )...So it still kinda bugs me a little, but it does make sense that he wouldn't question it...

          And I have to say that I just LOVE all the reactions from everyone else in the room from the time Pheobus/Elizabeth wakes up til..well..pretty much the end of the episode (but especially at first). I especially love Carson and Rodney when Pheobus asks for a moment alone together and Caldwell says no ("They're two consenting adults" )....
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            Originally posted by drewandian View Post
            I'm rewatching TLG (again....) and the scene where Thalen imprints on John is hands down one of my favorite scenes of all time!!!! And I've listened to the commentary, and I love that Torri kinda makes fun of the fact that her hair is NEVER out of place, except for in this ep when she's Pheobus.




            In watching again, I kinda see your point...if it had been pretty much anyone else who'd met her in the hall, they may have questioned it, but Lorne is certainly 100% military and therefore wouldn't think twice...it's his job to simply follow orders and not question them (like the good little military boy he is )...So it still kinda bugs me a little, but it does make sense that he wouldn't question it...

            And I have to say that I just LOVE all the reactions from everyone else in the room from the time Pheobus/Elizabeth wakes up til..well..pretty much the end of the episode (but especially at first). I especially love Carson and Rodney when Pheobus asks for a moment alone together and Caldwell says no ("They're two consenting adults" )....
            See it was like Carson was tickled that they might finally get together. And Rodney seemed pleased also. But the funniest thing is that aside from a few comments from Caldwell nobody seemed to question that John should be the one to become her "husband" and all that was implied.

            And what exactly did Phoebus mean by she would be discreet? Did they actually think she meant only to shake his hand? And since they all thought Thalen was actually her husband, did anybody, especially John, think how he would react when he saw his wife? Now I want somebody to explain to me why John decided to do this if he wasn't a bit interested in Elizabeth. Especially if he supposedly had deep feelings for another woman.
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              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              See it was like Carson was tickled that they might finally get together. And Rodney seemed pleased also. But the funniest thing is that aside from a few comments from Caldwell nobody seemed to question that John should be the one to become her "husband" and all that was implied.

              And what exactly did Phoebus mean by she would be discreet? Did they actually think she meant only to shake his hand? And since they all thought Thalen was actually her husband, did anybody, especially John, think how he would react when he saw his wife? Now I want somebody to explain to me why John decided to do this if he wasn't a bit interested in Elizabeth. Especially if he supposedly had deep feelings for another woman.
              Totally playing devil's advocate here (because you all know that I'm totally 100% Sparky smitten)...some might argue that he agreed to do it simply because, as the military commander of the city, it's his responsibility to ensure EVERYONE'S safety...(I'm not sayin' that what I think his reasons were, at least that that's the ONLY reason he agreed to do it, I'm just sayin' some people might say that's why he did it....)
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                Originally posted by drewandian View Post
                Totally playing devil's advocate here (because you all know that I'm totally 100% Sparky smitten)...some might argue that he agreed to do it simply because, as the military commander of the city, it's his responsibility to ensure EVERYONE'S safety...(I'm not sayin' that what I think his reasons were, at least that that's the ONLY reason he agreed to do it, I'm just sayin' some people might say that's why he did it....)
                And my argument to that DA argument (totes playing along) is that AS the military commander, he should have been the last person who would have allowed himself taken over.

                In truth, I think he should have volunteered at least Major Lorne, as someone he trusted but who he could keep an eye on. Based on history, John's the best soldier in the city (*cough* The Storm/The Eye *cough*) so 1) it would be foolish to allow him to be possessed by someone who might employ those skills and training and 2) take out your best soldier by allowing him to BE possessed by the potential threat.

                Had John been thinking with his head, he should not have agreed. Neither should Caldwell have allowed it. I don't think John was thinking with his head at that point, I think he was concerned for Elizabeth and all muddled up as to the wife-possessing-her-so-who-should-the-husband-be conundrum.

                And he really subconsciously wanted to be the husband.
                Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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                  Originally posted by drewandian View Post
                  Totally playing devil's advocate here (because you all know that I'm totally 100% Sparky smitten)...some might argue that he agreed to do it simply because, as the military commander of the city, it's his responsibility to ensure EVERYONE'S safety...(I'm not sayin' that what I think his reasons were, at least that that's the ONLY reason he agreed to do it, I'm just sayin' some people might say that's why he did it....)
                  And it was said. Repeatedly at the time. I think some of them even almost believed it.

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  And my argument to that DA argument (totes playing along) is that AS the military commander, he should have been the last person who would have allowed himself taken over.

                  In truth, I think he should have volunteered at least Major Lorne, as someone he trusted but who he could keep an eye on. Based on history, John's the best soldier in the city (*cough* The Storm/The Eye *cough*) so 1) it would be foolish to allow him to be possessed by someone who might employ those skills and training and 2) take out your best soldier by allowing him to BE possessed by the potential threat.

                  Had John been thinking with his head, he should not have agreed. Neither should Caldwell have allowed it. I don't think John was thinking with his head at that point, I think he was concerned for Elizabeth and all muddled up as to the wife-possessing-her-so-who-should-the-husband-be conundrum.

                  And he really subconsciously wanted to be the husband.
                  *high five*
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                    Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                    And my argument to that DA argument (totes playing along) is that AS the military commander, he should have been the last person who would have allowed himself taken over.

                    In truth, I think he should have volunteered at least Major Lorne, as someone he trusted but who he could keep an eye on. Based on history, John's the best soldier in the city (*cough* The Storm/The Eye *cough*) so 1) it would be foolish to allow him to be possessed by someone who might employ those skills and training and 2) take out your best soldier by allowing him to BE possessed by the potential threat.

                    Had John been thinking with his head, he should not have agreed. Neither should Caldwell have allowed it. I don't think John was thinking with his head at that point, I think he was concerned for Elizabeth and all muddled up as to the wife-possessing-her-so-who-should-the-husband-be conundrum.

                    And he really subconsciously wanted to be the husband.
                    ya think!?

                    And there's that....


                    I have a question...I'm working on a fic and I was wondering if what people's thoughts are on what John's and Elizabeth's thoughts on religion/spirituality might be. I'm not sure it's ever REALLY addressed on the show (other than the explanation to Chaya that there is a lot of diversity on Earth)....(I know, this is kinda a hot button topic, and I'm hoping I don't ruffle any feathers asking about it...)
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                      Originally posted by drewandian View Post
                      ya think!?

                      And there's that....

                      I have a question...I'm working on a fic and I was wondering if what people's thoughts are on what John's and Elizabeth's thoughts on religion/spirituality might be. I'm not sure it's ever REALLY addressed on the show (other than the explanation to Chaya that there is a lot of diversity on Earth)....(I know, this is kinda a hot button topic, and I'm hoping I don't ruffle any feathers asking about it...)
                      Yeah, it's not, really. I think discussing religion gets muddled with the introduction of Ascension as an element of 'spirituality'.

                      The only thing I remember as far as Elizabeth's concerned is her discussion with Rodney in Tao of Rodney about 'belief':

                      WEIR: One of the biggest things that holds people back is that somewhere deep down they believe they're not deserving. *You* have to ... release your burden.

                      McKAY (rolling his eyes): Oh, please!

                      WEIR: I know – spirituality to you is a load of mumbo jumbo, but it does help people find peace with themselves.

                      McKAY: But you have to believe.

                      WEIR: I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about shedding yourself of guilt, of anger, of ill-feeling, of anything that makes you feel shame. And then you can focus *all* of your energy on ascending.
                      It made me think the she believes in something because she sorta defends spirituality to Rodney as a way of coping. What that something, is, though, I don't think is ever defined.

                      In one of the Atlantis Fandemonium novels, Mirror, Mirror, there's a scene where 'original' Rodney finds an alternate!John's dog tags, which list him as "Catholic", but that's not considered canon.

                      That's about the best I've got.
                      Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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                        For Elizabeth: What Eri said.
                        For John: I think he is atheist from what he said in the episode "Sanctuary". But if I remember correctly, he wears a cross in the episode "Vegas". I want to say something about it but I can't find my words so if someone can help me.lol
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                          Thanks Eri and Probie...and that's what I thought...which is going to make this fic a little more difficult for me to write...
                          (I'm still looking for input though...I like to be really thoroughly informed! )
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                            Originally posted by Probie View Post
                            For Elizabeth: What Eri said.
                            For John: I think he is atheist from what he said in the episode "Sanctuary". But if I remember correctly, he wears a cross in the episode "Vegas". I want to say something about it but I can't find my words so if someone can help me.lol
                            He does wear a cross in Vegas, though that's an AU John, so not the same?

                            In Sanctuary Chaya asks him if he's a 'believer' and he doesn't ever really answer, but it's also vague as to what she's referring to (she's directly speaking of her 'goddess' so it's unclear if she's asking him about that or his own spirituality in general, though my thought would be about believing in general, just because it's sorta no-brainer that he wouldn't believe in a goddess he's never heard of before). Going over the transcripts he sort of dodges everything, though he does chastize Rodney's snarking on the religion. I don't know if the way the scenes are played out give more insight.

                            I was always curious as to why Chaya was curious about other religions--was she trying to learn about other religious practices to better her own way of essentially 'being' the religion of her planet?
                            Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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                              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                              He does wear a cross in Vegas, though that's an AU John, so not the same?

                              In Sanctuary Chaya asks him if he's a 'believer' and he doesn't ever really answer, but it's also vague as to what she's referring to (she's directly speaking of her 'goddess' so it's unclear if she's asking him about that or his own spirituality in general, though my thought would be about believing in general, just because it's sorta no-brainer that he wouldn't believe in a goddess he's never heard of before). Going over the transcripts he sort of dodges everything, though he does chastize Rodney's snarking on the religion. I don't know if the way the scenes are played out give more insight.

                              I was always curious as to why Chaya was curious about other religions--was she trying to learn about other religious practices to better her own way of essentially 'being' the religion of her planet?
                              I know a few people who wear crosses but do not necessarily have religion...*sigh*

                              Chaya...I got the feeling that she was simply curious...looking for some way to grow, to keep from becoming stagnant...And I kind of got the feeling that she wanted to see what the descendants of the Ancients had become once they went to Earth and those that had ascended couldn't have contact....

                              Eri, can I send you a PM with my idea and see what you think?
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                                Originally posted by Probie View Post
                                But if I remember correctly, he wears a cross in the episode "Vegas".
                                Yeah, but I have this Celtic cross that I do sometimes wear, just because I adore Celtic crosses even though I'm an atheist. (I adore monasteries and churches, too, for their beauty, architecture and their cultural importance.)

                                Sparky Shipper. Genetically predisposed to being stubborn... really pesky.

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