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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Probie View Post
    *runs and jumps in Eri's arms*

    I can't leave this thread because I LOVE IT. I LOVE SPARKY!!!!
    And because I like my Sparky friends. Yes even you, SK. Even if you don't let me go at the convention with you. And to be honest, the look of Elizabeth scared me.lol
    Don't stop to learn french. One day, everybody on this thread will speak in french. No? Ok I know it's a dream. I will be happy to speak with you in french. I could stop asking me if my English is good or if my sentence makes sense.
    For your question: Oui je vais bien. Je suis toute heureuse aujourd'hui.

    I'm a little excited today and I talk a lot so If you want I can stop.lol
    Elizabeth would scare anyone with that look. I'm sure Lorne still has nightmares.

    Uh...lemme see...

    Yes, I go well? I am so happy...uh...that's about all I can get. Is it close? I'm learning by listening, so I haven't looked at words yet.
    Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

    Comment


      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
      SK you need to watch that section of the Joe con vid before tomorrow. He is basically referring to that question you are going to ask him. And I think I heard him say something about women characters getting killed off. He seems to remember the remark and might want to expand on it. *goes back to ironing curtains*
      I'll definitely have to take a look at that later. After I dust the floors.

      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
      OT
      Spoiler:
      Yesterday I took down all the curtains in our family room. They are unbleached muslim and I wash them once a year. Hubby came in, saw one of the wooden curtain rods lying on the hearth and said "what is this stick doing here?" I kid you not. He did not notice all the curtains gone and the sun streaming in through bare windows.
      *snickers* Men.

      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
      I think his comment of Larrin being the strong female character opposite John came separately from Moonlighting comment, but I may be mistaken. However, they DID have a strong, in fact VERY strong female character opposite him for three seasons, and the most interesting thing was that John didn't feel threatened or lessened by her. They were true equals, and no other female character on SGA was quite like that with Sheppard.

      Fail, PTB. So much fail.
      The only "Moonlighting" comment from Joe that I know of is the one from the Stargate Magazine. You know which one. And Larrin wasn't mentioned at all.

      Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
      I want to say they tried to go that route--but Torri and Joe just couldn't pull it off. The chemistry was too good. When that argument in Rising got resolved so well, it was hard to see them as constantly antagonistic.

      John is not a long-term 'fighter' cuz he's really not a jerk. It would be hard for me to see him knocking heads with anyone except people who antagonize him. And Elizabeth, being a diplomat, is automatically not programmed to be an antagonist, so...
      Exactly. They were created and written by the producers/writers, and portrayed by Joe and Torri, in such a way that they really couldn't stay angry with each other for very long without it seeming totally ridiculous to the audience.
      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
        They sizzled in Hot Zone, but sort of at the expense of John being a slight jerk and overriding her authority because he thought he knew best.

        I didn't like him in HZ; I wanted to smack him upside the head. He pulled rank and 'military superiority' over her, which is what Everett, Caldwell and Ellis subsequently did. Me no likey.

        But she doesn't forgive easily--he had to go and essentially blow himself up to win back her approval.

        I can't think of how they could have been antagonistic with each other long term without costing us the characters that we like so well. I think John would have had had to be slightly obnoxious or Elizabeth a witch.

        If someone else has ideas, let me know. Could be a fun plot bunny.
        I have an idea...I just can't figure out how to word it...I'm working on it... lol
        (lots to say just can't put it here and have it make sense to anyone else )
        My fanfics:http://evil_bad_evil.livejournal.com/3389.htmlMember of the Sisterhood of the Pantster Fan Fic Writers
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          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

          I agree. I don't have much of a problem with Teer. Poor guy was lonely and he had a lot of time to know her. And she did leave him to Ascend, so it's not like she was following him around all the time.

          In fact, she was just using him for his body and his ability to fight electo-transparent beasts.
          Hm. I rewatched the ep, and Teer was indeed smarter than other HABOTW (Hot Alien Babe of the Week). I think she really tried to understand John, kept him company and did her best to comfort him, or rather, coerce him into accepting that he was bound to stay in the sanctuary. She also openly came onto him, and I can imagine John was feeling sadm frustrated, annoyed, bored, LONELY. And here is this pretty and smart woman showing what seemed to be genuine interest for him, and over the six months he became too lonely.

          However Teer still comes accross as manipulative because if she knew past and future, it feels like she should have known John wouldn't stay or wouldn't want to ascend. he led the hippie people to ascension precisely because he was so drastically different from them and brought in a different point of view to their situation. I also think the ep shows few basic things about him; it seems like he feels it's his duty to pit himself in the way of danger and protect other people, no matter what. It looks like he isn't afraid of death, but of loneliness, and being abandoned.

          It's also safe to note that John + sex = ascension.
          I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
            Elizabeth would scare anyone with that look. I'm sure Lorne still has nightmares.

            Uh...lemme see...

            Yes, I go well? I am so happy...uh...that's about all I can get. Is it close? I'm learning by listening, so I haven't looked at words yet.
            Yes. You are a good student.
            You learn with movies, songs...?

            Anuna: I agree with you. I also like Roslin but it's my least favorite characters. Like you said, she's a great politician but...I don't know. Something is missing. Adama/Roslin was interesting but not my favorite aspect on the show. it was not important for me even if I cried at the end of the show because of them.
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              Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
              Argh! Which Joe said that? Mallozzi? I so agree with you. And who does he praise as this character? That stupid "I'm just a hot babe for the male viewers between 9 and 14 and I'll go and tie up Sheppard-Babe?". I don't even remember her name. *grrr*

              *goes to watch Hot Zone* Now that's what I call strong opposing characters!
              Joe Flanigan and he does mention Larrin in that con vid. Though someone else brings her up first. After Liz was killed off I get the idea Joe just wanted someone totally new for John but not necessarily a potential love of his life. He doesn't seem to take the ship very seriously. And I think ship in guyspeak means sex not love.
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              Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

              Comment


                [QUOTE=Eri13;10802478]


                I want to say they tried to go that route--but Torri and Joe just couldn't pull it off. The chemistry was too good. When that argument in Rising got resolved so well, it was hard to see them as constantly antagonistic.

                John is not a long-term 'fighter' cuz he's really not a jerk. It would be hard for me to see him knocking heads with anyone except people who antagonize him. And Elizabeth, being a diplomat, is automatically not programmed to be an antagonist, so...

                [QUOTE]

                I think a part of the reason of why John and Elizabeth had such good working relationship was the fact that Elizabeth never antagonized him, just to show him who is in charge or anything like that. I think he was used to his commanders, and in military you get an order and you obey. Elizabeth is probably his first superior who notices that this man is intelligent and has reasons to disagree with her decisions. Which she takes into account, listens to him, and by doing that she respects him. I'd rather have that with them, than constant toe to toe relationship, because the way they work, the way they got to work is quite unique. By treating John the way she did, Elizabeth didn't won his obedience, she won his loyalty, which is far more powerful.
                I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                Comment


                  [QUOTE=Anuna;10802568][QUOTE=Eri13;10802478]


                  I want to say they tried to go that route--but Torri and Joe just couldn't pull it off. The chemistry was too good. When that argument in Rising got resolved so well, it was hard to see them as constantly antagonistic.

                  John is not a long-term 'fighter' cuz he's really not a jerk. It would be hard for me to see him knocking heads with anyone except people who antagonize him. And Elizabeth, being a diplomat, is automatically not programmed to be an antagonist, so...


                  I think a part of the reason of why John and Elizabeth had such good working relationship was the fact that Elizabeth never antagonized him, just to show him who is in charge or anything like that. I think he was used to his commanders, and in military you get an order and you obey. Elizabeth is probably his first superior who notices that this man is intelligent and has reasons to disagree with her decisions. Which she takes into account, listens to him, and by doing that she respects him. I'd rather have that with them, than constant toe to toe relationship, because the way they work, the way they got to work is quite unique. By treating John the way she did, Elizabeth didn't won his obedience, she won his loyalty, which is far more powerful.
                  I agree with this...but I still think there was the potential for a little more tension between them (and I don't mean constant head-butting, but just occasional antagonism) simply because they're fundamentally very different in some of their beliefs, things that would constantly come up in the running and protecting of the city. (I could be wrong on this a little...bear with me). John's military...and for the most part, no matter what you personally believe, when you're military you begin to adapt this "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality (at least to some extent - even I did when I served and I'm a total tree-hugging pacifist normally)...Elizabeth negotiated peace treaties and was (for lack of a better phrase) anti-weapons (as far as I can remember, the only time you see her with a weapon is in TLG and it's not really her anyway)...she's more "talk first and then blow them all to h*ll when they don't cooperate"...IMO this would have to occasionally lead to some toe-to-toe head-butting arguments. Not anything that would drag on or not be resolved...just fireworks before coming to a compromise. I don't think we got to see much of that at all though....

                  I hope that makes sense...and that doesn't sound dumb....
                  My fanfics:http://evil_bad_evil.livejournal.com/3389.htmlMember of the Sisterhood of the Pantster Fan Fic Writers
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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                    Joe Flanigan and he does mention Larrin in that con vid. Though someone else brings her up first. After Liz was killed off I get the idea Joe just wanted someone totally new for John but not necessarily a potential love of his life. He doesn't seem to take the ship very seriously. And I think ship in guyspeak means sex not love.
                    I often forget I don't speak guyspeak. Although I wouldn't be entirelly opposed to smokin' hot sparky $ex.
                    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                    Comment


                      This thread is going too fast for me and I love it. It means there is a lot of people here.

                      After the fight football vs American football, we will have a new "ship"war (I hope not) with the new thread "who should have been together?". It's too much for my heart today.lol

                      Anuna: Just want to say that I like your explanation. I can't find my word to comment it but I totally agree with you. Like always.lol
                      Last edited by Probie; 06 November 2009, 11:42 AM.
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                        I think I can see the point of both sides. But a little more tension would have been nice.

                        And I'm off to bed... Running a temperature, feeling tired. Good thing I planned this well. Tomorrow I will spend lying in bed, order pizza and watch old eps of SGA, X-files and BSG. Maybe read some?

                        Sparky Shipper. Genetically predisposed to being stubborn... really pesky.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
                          I think I can see the point of both sides. But a little more tension would have been nice.

                          And I'm off to bed... Running a temperature, feeling tired. Good thing I planned this well. Tomorrow I will spend lying in bed, order pizza and watch old eps of SGA, X-files and BSG. Maybe read some?
                          Oh sweetie, are you ahving a reaction to that vaccine you had yesterday?
                          I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                            Oh sweetie, are you ahving a reaction to that vaccine you had yesterday?
                            Today, actually. But it's not to bad. It just calls for a laaaaazy day With Sparky. Are you doing better?

                            Sparky Shipper. Genetically predisposed to being stubborn... really pesky.

                            Comment


                              [QUOTE=drewandian;10802608][QUOTE=Anuna;10802568]
                              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                              I want to say they tried to go that route--but Torri and Joe just couldn't pull it off. The chemistry was too good. When that argument in Rising got resolved so well, it was hard to see them as constantly antagonistic.

                              John is not a long-term 'fighter' cuz he's really not a jerk. It would be hard for me to see him knocking heads with anyone except people who antagonize him. And Elizabeth, being a diplomat, is automatically not programmed to be an antagonist, so...

                              I agree with this...but I still think there was the potential for a little more tension between them (and I don't mean constant head-butting, but just occasional antagonism) simply because they're fundamentally very different in some of their beliefs, things that would constantly come up in the running and protecting of the city. (I could be wrong on this a little...bear with me). John's military...and for the most part, no matter what you personally believe, when you're military you begin to adapt this "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality (at least to some extent - even I did when I served and I'm a total tree-hugging pacifist normally)...Elizabeth negotiated peace treaties and was (for lack of a better phrase) anti-weapons (as far as I can remember, the only time you see her with a weapon is in TLG and it's not really her anyway)...she's more "talk first and then blow them all to h*ll when they don't cooperate"...IMO this would have to occasionally lead to some toe-to-toe head-butting arguments. Not anything that would drag on or not be resolved...just fireworks before coming to a compromise. I don't think we got to see much of that at all though....

                              I hope that makes sense...and that doesn't sound dumb....
                              That to me makes total sense, except for the fact that I think they were trying to distinguish John from Sumner and those of his ilk, who totally fits the bill of "shoot first, ask questions later."

                              You saw that disparity between Weir and Sumner in their attitudes, and John was sort of the person they fought over as they tried to establish dominance. Elizabeth took the attitude of 'I'm the leader, he's my choice, even if you don't approve of him, he's going with you' and Sumner's view was 'he's a danger, he's poor military, I don't like him, so I'm going to demean him as Weir's pet'. John's actions were then under a microscope, and every good choice he made was a plus for Elizabeth, every bad move a plus for Sumner and vice-versa.

                              Sumner wasn't a total jerk, though--he just had an attitude. Robert Patrick played him like he listened to, but fundamentally disagreed with, most of Weir's position because they were in an unexplored, dangerous galaxy and being diplomatic was not, in his opinion, the best course of action.

                              Elizabeth was a pacifist--in fact, RCC stated that she hated guns. But Torri never played her as anti-gun; in fact, that fact surprised me when I first heard it. She was very civilian, but she definitely sanctioned use of force.

                              John, honestly, is a conundrum if you think about it. He considers himself a maverick and a black sheep, as do most of the brass. He's not standard military issue, and I think the only place where his position works is in Pegasus with Elizabeth by his side--and covering his back. The fact he wasn't was perfect for her, because she needed someone who wouldn't constantly question her decisions, but could still lead, and that's what John did.

                              In the end the writers wrote themselves into a corner with him. If you try and make him 'more military' you go against why he was shuttling people around off McMurdo. If you make Elizabeth and he butt heads, make him more "Hot Zone-ish", you contradict the reason she brings him along in the first place--because he wasn't that way to begin with, he was essentially the opposite.

                              It's a big ol' muddle.
                              Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                                Hm. I rewatched the ep, and Teer was indeed smarter than other HABOTW (Hot Alien Babe of the Week). I think she really tried to understand John, kept him company and did her best to comfort him, or rather, coerce him into accepting that he was bound to stay in the sanctuary. She also openly came onto him, and I can imagine John was feeling sadm frustrated, annoyed, bored, LONELY. And here is this pretty and smart woman showing what seemed to be genuine interest for him, and over the six months he became too lonely.

                                However Teer still comes accross as manipulative because if she knew past and future, it feels like she should have known John wouldn't stay or wouldn't want to ascend. he led the hippie people to ascension precisely because he was so drastically different from them and brought in a different point of view to their situation. I also think the ep shows few basic things about him; it seems like he feels it's his duty to pit himself in the way of danger and protect other people, no matter what. It looks like he isn't afraid of death, but of loneliness, and being abandoned.

                                It's also safe to note that John + sex = ascension.
                                That's my main beef with Teer, as well. She's really the most three-dimensional and believable of the HABOTWs, but that manipulativeness of hers, of trying to push what she saw in her vision on John, in spite of his obvious discomfort and reluctance, is what turns me off to her. On the other hand, I'm glad that she did have a major failing like that, as she would've been quite boring if she was totally perfect.

                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                Joe Flanigan and he does mention Larrin in that con vid. Though someone else brings her up first. After Liz was killed off I get the idea Joe just wanted someone totally new for John but not necessarily a potential love of his life. He doesn't seem to take the ship very seriously. And I think ship in guyspeak means sex not love.
                                Heh. There's that, too.
                                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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