Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Yep. I can see John feeling that even if he can't have his own happy ending with Elizabeth, at least he can make sure that Teyla has a happy ending with her son (and Kanaan, once they get him back). To John, it makes his own suffering worth it.

Proving once again that he would do anything for any one of them.

[Eri13]

Oooo...I watched Lifeline while working out at the gym yesterday, and do I have some fun food for thought off of this one. Seeing it again after so many months gave me more interesting spins on parts of the story, and much more Sparky than I initially thought.

It may take a couple of days to get up the recap, but I hope you'll all be interested in the discussion! It brings up some of the stuff we've been addressing recently with the Quarantine discussion (and they're both Binder so go figure).

[Probie]

Oooo...I watched Lifeline while working out at the gym yesterday, and do I have some fun food for thought off of this one. Seeing it again after so many months gave me more interesting spins on parts of the story, and much more Sparky than I initially thought.

It may take a couple of days to get up the recap, but I hope you'll all be interested in the discussion! It brings up some of the stuff we've been addressing recently with the Quarantine discussion (and they're both Binder so go figure).

Estoy feliz! Can't wait to see your recap.

Pkprd Hi Homie! I hope your work is not killing you. I happy to learn that you will write a new story. Can't wait to read it.

[Southern Red]

Oooo...I watched Lifeline while working out at the gym yesterday, and do I have some fun food for thought off of this one. Seeing it again after so many months gave me more interesting spins on parts of the story, and much more Sparky than I initially thought.

It may take a couple of days to get up the recap, but I hope you'll all be interested in the discussion! It brings up some of the stuff we've been addressing recently with the Quarantine discussion (and they're both Binder so go figure).

Finally somebody shows up. Lifeline discussion would be welcome.

Meanwhile let's continue with this:

1) Echoes: John carries Elizabeth
2) Siege 3: The hug
3) The Real World: John breaks quarantine
4) Intruder: Coffee scene (I rewind this at LEAST five times each time)
5) The Eye: John shoots Kolya and saves Elizabeth. Then he asks if she's "okay."
6) Submersion: "You're with me or I'm with you...either way or eye-ther way."
7)TLG: The Kiss of course
8) Misbegotten: "John Sheppard, are you defending my honor?"
9) The Real World: the entire end scene - John's smile!
10. Grace Under Pressure: the chocolate/peanut butter scene with the real sparks in the background.
11. Instinct: Shep makes a joke about Wraith teenage angst. (Something like, "pimples, teen rebellion, the usual wraith puberty stuff".) And Lizzie tries to contain her smile but it creeps out. I'm the kind of fellow that's a sucker for the little stuff.
12.) In The Eye/The Storm when Shep is all "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!" to Kolya. That certainly would be my reaction.
13. TRW: when John was talking to Elizabeth while she was unconscious
14. Before I Sleep: John gives Elizabeth a birthday present.
15. 38 Minutes: The end infirmary scene.
16) The Return: In the restaurant. "Cheeky"
17) Siege III: the 'raise the shield' scene where John frantically tries to radio Atlantis a few times before they answer. I love his 'don't SCARE me like that' line and the expression on his face.
18) Conversion: The "bedside manner" scene.
19) This Mortal Coil: The Whole "Hello John" Scene with the Duplicate Weir and The real John Sheppard. i felt bad for john cause in that scene we truly see the pain of what he was going through.
Love the TMC scene...also love/hate...
20: Adrift: "She'll never be the same Elizabeth" scene. *heartbreak*
21) Misbegotten: the conference room scene where it seems like John and Elizabeth are the only ones there.
22: Progeny: the scene with Elizabeth being choked by Niam, and John coming to her rescue, then asking if she's okay.
23) Epiphany: the scene at the end where Lizzie teases John about the beard
24) Lifeline: John Leaving Elizabeth behind
25) Lifeline: the moment where john is in the chair after they land on the new planet
26) Lifeline: The end scene.
27) Hot Zone: The scene where Elizabeth chews John out for being snotty (aka the 'you still think it was a good idea to break quarantine!?' scene)
28) Duet: John's imitation of a little boy asking for a puppy when he asks Elizabeth to approve Ronon joining the team (the "I knew you'd say yes"/"I haven't said yes"/"Well, you were about to" bit)
29) GitM: the last scene for the look on John's face
30) The Tower: the balcony scene at the end where John tells Lizzie that he turned down the girl and getting to be king. (Because he so wanted to go home to Lizzie.)
31) Lifeline: When John says "we'll be back before you know it" and he and Elizabeth share a long last look before he leaves the jumper.
32) Tao of Rodney: John and Elizabeth have lunch together.
33) Siege II - The look that lasts forever. "You can't." "I have to...and you know it."

34) The Rising: the last scene when John says "you know I could get us in all kinds of trouble, right". It almost looks like they bump shoulders there.

[ddc]

On languages: I went to private schools so I had French from 2nd grade through High School plus a couple of college courses. I'm semi-fluent, to the point I've been asked in France if I was Canadian (Europeans always seem surprized when Americans speak their languages even half way well). Also had 2 years of Latin in High School and I understand a bit of Italian from my mother and her relatives and several trips to Italy.

To relate this to Sparky, Elizabeth speaks Russian (Lost City) and I'd guess the other ones are French, Spanish, German and Latin (given how easily she learns Ancient). With John's background he probably went to private school so he most likely knows French &/or Spanish. So, balcony in the evening, personal conversation slipping into French?

[Probie]

On languages: I went to private schools so I had French from 2nd grade through High School plus a couple of college courses. I'm semi-fluent, to the point I've been asked in France if I was Canadian (Europeans always seem surprized when Americans speak their languages even half way well). Also had 2 years of Latin in High School and I understand a bit of Italian from my mother and her relatives and several trips to Italy.

To relate this to Sparky, Elizabeth speaks Russian (Lost City) and I'd guess the other ones are French, Spanish, German and Latin (given how easily she learns Ancient). With John's background he probably went to private school so he most likely knows French &/or Spanish. So, balcony in the evening, personal conversation slipping into French?

We are surprised because we don't understand why you learn a language not useful for you. I mean English is important for us (european) for our work.
Donc je peux te parler en francais. Tu peux pas savoir comme cela fait du bien de pouvoir parler dans sa langue maternelle sans se préoccuper de savoir si je fais beaucoup de fautes en anglais ou si les gens vont me comprendre.lol

And because I like it and it's cute
Joe
Torri

[Anuna]

Hello guys. I'm tired. *passes out*

[Southern Red]

On languages: I went to private schools so I had French from 2nd grade through High School plus a couple of college courses. I'm semi-fluent, to the point I've been asked in France if I was Canadian (Europeans always seem surprized when Americans speak their languages even half way well). Also had 2 years of Latin in High School and I understand a bit of Italian from my mother and her relatives and several trips to Italy.

To relate this to Sparky, Elizabeth speaks Russian (Lost City) and I'd guess the other ones are French, Spanish, German and Latin (given how easily she learns Ancient). With John's background he probably went to private school so he most likely knows French &/or Spanish. So, balcony in the evening, personal conversation slipping into French?

Wouldn't that have been a hoot? Why they didn't have John suddenly start speaking French to her is a mystery since Joe speaks it fluently. It would have been a great surprising and funny moment. Oh wait...that would have made Sheppard look smart. We can't have that.

We are surprised because we don't understand why you learn a language not useful for you. I mean English is important for us (european) for our work.
Donc je peux te parler en francais. Tu peux pas savoir comme cela fait du bien de pouvoir parler dans sa langue maternelle sans se préoccuper de savoir si je fais beaucoup de fautes en anglais ou si les gens vont me comprendre.lol

And because I like it and it's cute
Joe
Torri

Somebody said they overheard Joe talking to a guy in French at DragonCon and she could have stood there and listened all day. LOL

And Torri looks really hot there. If Elizabeth had been that flirty, screens would have melted the world over even more than they did.

Hello guys. I'm tired. *passes out*

*waves* It's morning here and I'm heading out to the grocery store soon. Then back for more Sparky fun.

[ddc]

We are surprised because we don't understand why you learn a language not useful for you. I mean English is important for us (european) for our work.
Donc je peux te parler en francais. Tu peux pas savoir comme cela fait du bien de pouvoir parler dans sa langue maternelle sans se préoccuper de savoir si je fais beaucoup de fautes en anglais ou si les gens vont me comprendre.lol

And because I like it and it's cute
Joe
Torri

Votre Anglais est meilleur que mon Français!

[Probie]

Wouldn't that have been a hoot? Why they didn't have John suddenly start speaking French to her is a mystery since Joe speaks it fluently. It would have been a great surprising and funny moment. Oh wait...that would have made Sheppard look smart. We can't have that.



Somebody said they overheard Joe talking to a guy in French at DragonCon and she could have stood there and listened all day. LOL

And Torri looks really hot there. If Elizabeth had been that flirty, screens would have melted the world over even more than they did.


*waves* It's morning here and I'm heading out to the grocery store soon. Then back for more Sparky fun.

A french scene between them would be so romantic.

Joe has a great accent when he speaks in French. Some of my friends went to a convention and talked with Joe in French. Apparently he likes speaking in French. I need to meet this guy and talk with him.lol

Votre Anglais est meilleur que mon Français!

I'm sure your french is very well. J'aimerais bien parler avec toi en francais si tu veux t'amuser ou t'entrainer. Ce n'est pas une obligation bien sûr.

Hey guys, you can say to me "Stop with your french and talk about Sparky, girl." I will understand. I just feel a little "chauvinistic".lol

[Eri13]

Wouldn't that have been a hoot? Why they didn't have John suddenly start speaking French to her is a mystery since Joe speaks it fluently. It would have been a great surprising and funny moment. Oh wait...that would have made Sheppard look smart. We can't have that.

Somebody said they overheard Joe talking to a guy in French at DragonCon and she could have stood there and listened all day. LOL

And Torri looks really hot there. If Elizabeth had been that flirty, screens would have melted the world over even more than they did.

*waves* It's morning here and I'm heading out to the grocery store soon. Then back for more Sparky fun.

Does Torri speak a few different languages too? I thought she might know a couple. Having them drop into a different language would have been fun.

Okay, for Lifeline, I have an interesting question to ask. Is there foreshadowing involved before we even were meant to expect it? Check out this little tidbit I noticed last night...

McKAY: Where’s Doctor Weir?
OBEROTH: Her attempts to seize control of the collective proved too taxing for her, rendering her mind and body virtually moribund. She has been taken to be ... repaired.
SHEPPARD: You’re gonna take control of her.
OBEROTH: That has already occurred. Unfortunately I was not able to glean all the information I need from her, so I will have to extract it from you.

If you look at "John's" expression, you see him get downhearted for a moment. Of course, if you know the story, you ALSO know that this isn't John--it's Elizabeth, preparing a trap for Oberoth. So John's 'depression' is actually Elizabeth's depression at hearing that Oberoth is indeed going to take control of her.

NOTE, HOWEVER...Oberoth doesn't use the word 'kill', nor does he use the word 'assimilate'. He says 'take control'. We know what Elizabeth assumes this means--assimilation. Most people probably presume assimilation, based on Oberoth's use of the word 'repaired'. However, could an argument be made that his intention is not to assimilate her directly, but simply to take control (ie, prevent her nanites from exercise control over the collective)? Is this Binder leaving the door open early on (before, of course, the entire GITM fiasco) for potential returns of the 'real' Elizabeth?

And even if it wasn't intended then, in retrospect, can you use it for that type of argument now?

[Southern Red]

Does Torri speak a few different languages too? I thought she might know a couple. Having them drop into a different language would have been fun.

Okay, for Lifeline, I have an interesting question to ask. Is there foreshadowing involved before we even were meant to expect it? Check out this little tidbit I noticed last night...



http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...eline_0551.jpg

If you look at "John's" expression, you see him get downhearted for a moment. Of course, if you know the story, you ALSO know that this isn't John--it's Elizabeth, preparing a trap for Oberoth. So John's 'depression' is actually Elizabeth's depression at hearing that Oberoth is indeed going to take control of her.

NOTE, HOWEVER...Oberoth doesn't use the word 'kill', nor does he use the word 'assimilate'. He says 'take control'. We know what Elizabeth assumes this means--assimilation. Most people probably presume assimilation, based on Oberoth's use of the word 'repaired'. However, could an argument be made that his intention is not to assimilate her directly, but simply to take control (ie, prevent her nanites from exercise control over the collective)? Is this Binder leaving the door open early on (before, of course, the entire GITM fiasco) for potential returns of the 'real' Elizabeth?

And even if it wasn't intended then, in retrospect, can you use it for that type of argument now?

I never thought of this but you are absolutely right. It's hard to get into the whole it's not really her it's John idea when you're looking at him. So you tend to just look at the surface of the scene. CB is very clever and I'd say it leaves it open for not only GitM but for the real Weir to still be alive.

[Anuna]

Does Torri speak a few different languages too? I thought she might know a couple. Having them drop into a different language would have been fun.

Okay, for Lifeline, I have an interesting question to ask. Is there foreshadowing involved before we even were meant to expect it? Check out this little tidbit I noticed last night...





If you look at "John's" expression, you see him get downhearted for a moment. Of course, if you know the story, you ALSO know that this isn't John--it's Elizabeth, preparing a trap for Oberoth. So John's 'depression' is actually Elizabeth's depression at hearing that Oberoth is indeed going to take control of her.

NOTE, HOWEVER...Oberoth doesn't use the word 'kill', nor does he use the word 'assimilate'. He says 'take control'. We know what Elizabeth assumes this means--assimilation. Most people probably presume assimilation, based on Oberoth's use of the word 'repaired'. However, could an argument be made that his intention is not to assimilate her directly, but simply to take control (ie, prevent her nanites from exercise control over the collective)? Is this Binder leaving the door open early on (before, of course, the entire GITM fiasco) for potential returns of the 'real' Elizabeth?

And even if it wasn't intended then, in retrospect, can you use it for that type of argument now?

ZOMG. Talk about possibilities! Was Elizabeth actually aware of Oberoth's intentions? Of course, she is more worth alive than dead. I think, when it comes to Oberoth and evil Replies, everything has to have a purpose. Perhaps controlling Elizabeth's mind - a strong, opinionated, stubborn mind - is a purpose in itself; beside gathering all the intel he wants and needs to destroy the Wraith, Atlantis and so forth.

[Southern Red]

ZOMG. Talk about possibilities! Was Elizabeth actually aware of Oberoth's intentions? Of course, she is more worth alive than dead. I think, when it comes to Oberoth and evil Replies, everything has to have a purpose. Perhaps controlling Elizabeth's mind - a strong, opinionated, stubborn mind - is a purpose in itself; beside gathering all the intel he wants and needs to destroy the Wraith, Atlantis and so forth.

And what better mind to serve his purposes than the mind that contains all the secrets of Atlantis. I find it interesting also that she chose John to imitate. Perhaps because she knew him best?

[Eri13]

ZOMG. Talk about possibilities! Was Elizabeth actually aware of Oberoth's intentions? Of course, she is more worth alive than dead. I think, when it comes to Oberoth and evil Replies, everything has to have a purpose. Perhaps controlling Elizabeth's mind - a strong, opinionated, stubborn mind - is a purpose in itself; beside gathering all the intel he wants and needs to destroy the Wraith, Atlantis and so forth.

Here's my take on that...Oberoth and the rest are logical. They look at everything from a logical perspective. In their 'understanding', Elizabeth is the furthest thing from logical. She's a human, who should be weak, who suddenly has this amazing ability to willfully overcome replicator control--and not only that, manipulate and use the replicators to her own purposes.

In my mind, there are two options--you kill her, and eliminate the threat, or you try and figure out how she does it. If you're logical, and you have no 'fear' of things, then I believe they keep her alive to figure out how she does it. What's more, to eliminate the 'danger' of studying the 'real' Elizabeth, you create duplicate copies with her mind inserted in them to see what she does--what kind of control she attempts to exercise within the collective. As a full replicator (or a clone without manipulable nanites) she isn't a threat, yet her mind is still present and that's really what you're wanting to study. You can see the choices she makes and how she lives among the replicators--and what might lead her to be able to take control of the nanites.

After all, if you hate humans, you NEED to figure out how to eliminate this possible threat against you. Otherwise, it is something that may come back to cause problems in the future.

But the real thing, you keep, so you'll always have the true source to make copies of, because you never know what might happen where you will need the real thing. Or perhaps the real thing still remains a question for you. In any case, you squirrel her away somewhere that's not a threat to you. So she's not on Asuras.

This scenario works with both TMC and GITM. In TMC, she's a human clone copy created by the rebels, who have already split off from Oberoth but use the 'real' Elizabeth to make the clone. In GITM, the Elizabeth who appears is a version who believes she's been assimilated, but is just another copy that Oberoth was using to see what an 'assimilated' version of Weir could do. And that Weir, of course, believed she was the real thing, as all other copies of Weir would.

But the real one...she could still be alive, away from Asuras...