Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Anuna]

Nice. I'm sure people can use that to refer to Ford as well, but it seems much more fitting for Elizabeth. Ford sorta made his own choices during The Hive, but John felt he had that brief window of time between Lifeline and Reunion to find Elizabeth and was denied that--and after TMC, of course, he'd been told she'd been killed by Oberoth.

Exactly, Ford made his own choice, and when John tried to help him, Ford denied that too. His reason was clouded by wraith enzyme, and we could argue it was a choice under influence. Yet, it was still his choice.

Elizabeth, however, slipped right through his fingers, and I'm not meaning to be unfair, but I think his wish to save her was far much stronger than his wish to save Ford was.

Okay, throw rocks at me now

[Eri13]

Exactly, SR! This is something that happens with John all the time, his fear to lose someone else, his need to protect them all the best he can are always there. (here's my Sparky take on "Quarantine").

I loved "Quarantine" for several reasons, and two among them are Ronon/Jennifer (because they're simply adorable together), and John's conversation with Teyla. Binder rocks at writing characters and getting into their heads. I loved how he wrote a beautiful personal conversation between two team members - it's something that happens rarely in SGA. I could really empathize with Teyla and all her concerns for her child, if her son would become both fatherless and motherless. At the time of Quarantine we don't know what happened to Kanaan, and knowing the nature of Teyla's "job" (being on John's team) her fears are very realistic. I loved how John told her about his friend from college, a woman who has three kids and works as a cop. Then he said to Teyla that her child would always have a family on Atlantis, should something bad happen, and that's perfectly in character for him. I can see him taking care of her son personally. You just know he'd to that, and wouldn't let anyone else take that responsibility. He showed empathy, but more in verbal, than non verbal way -

Spoiler:

During their conversation he is looking at his computer most of the time. Teyla does look at him, quite often, but he uses the computer as a distraction, or rather to distance himself.

Obviously, it's not because he dislikes her or anything like that - John simply can't bear the thought of anyone else being in danger (any of his people). He's very afraid he won't be able to protect Teyla - not only from dangers of Pegasus galaxy, but sometimes from herself too. he was right when he didn't want her to go on missions - it was dangerous, and reacted the way he did because she was exposing herself and her unborn son to danger.

The only time when John does look at her is when he promises her son would always have family on Atlantis.

However, look at him. He looks like all of the fire he once had inside was extinguished. ( In Adrift/Lifeline).

The only lighter moment was when the baby kicked and we got a glimpse of old John. But it was just a glimpse.

Even Teyla is aware of that.

His eyes became empty very quickly.

Long story short - the loss of Elizabeth changed John profoundly, it affected on all of his relationships, on the way he communicates with other people.... PTB messed him up rather fine.

That was the stuff I picked up on as I watched S4--much of John's demeanor was that sort of tired look he has in those first two pictures you chose to highlight. It is a big contrast to the John from previous seasons. That 'ease of manner' just isn't there anymore.

In Miller's Crossing you really see it, and Outcast (father problems too, of course). He just looked tired all the time.

I guess I just got tired of all the hinting and behind-the-scenes stuff going on as S4 progressed. With the news Torri wasn't returning and my hopes for anything Weir in S5 dashed, plus various other stuff (I remember people celebrating over Kanaan's funeral pyre, for example) so I just didn't feel like I would take any enjoyment out of Atlantis. That was a general feeling, more than anything directly related to stuff in the show.

I think you've pretty much convinced me now to go back and watch. I like Jewel Staite a lot, and Robert Picardo too, and I actually adore Michael Shanks, so the S5 midseason 2-parter is one I'd like to watch. Also need to see Remnants, plus I'm curious about Todd and the Renegade Asgard aspect of the story. Most of my ire has left and I'm most curious about watching Joe Flanigan play out his role and what kinds of developmental arguments I can make out of that.

I'll check around for used S4/S5 DVD copies.

[Southern Red]

Exactly, SR! This is something that happens with John all the time, his fear to lose someone else, his need to protect them all the best he can are always there. (here's my Sparky take on "Quarantine").

I loved "Quarantine" for several reasons, and two among them are Ronon/Jennifer (because they're simply adorable together), and John's conversation with Teyla. Binder rocks at writing characters and getting into their heads. I loved how he wrote a beautiful personal conversation between two team members - it's something that happens rarely in SGA. I could really empathize with Teyla and all her concerns for her child, if her son would become both fatherless and motherless. At the time of Quarantine we don't know what happened to Kanaan, and knowing the nature of Teyla's "job" (being on John's team) her fears are very realistic. I loved how John told her about his friend from college, a woman who has three kids and works as a cop. Then he said to Teyla that her child would always have a family on Atlantis, should something bad happen, and that's perfectly in character for him. I can see him taking care of her son personally. You just know he'd to that, and wouldn't let anyone else take that responsibility. He showed empathy, but more in verbal, than non verbal way -

[snippage]

Obviously, it's not because he dislikes her or anything like that - John simply can't bear the thought of anyone else being in danger (any of his people). He's very afraid he won't be able to protect Teyla - not only from dangers of Pegasus galaxy, but sometimes from herself too. he was right when he didn't want her to go on missions - it was dangerous, and reacted the way he did because she was exposing herself and her unborn son to danger.

The only time when John does look at her is when he promises her son would always have family on Atlantis.

[and more cause I'm lazy]

However, look at him. He looks like all of the fire he once had inside was extinguished. ( In Adrift/Lifeline).

The only lighter moment was when the baby kicked and we got a glimpse of old John. But it was just a glimpse.

Even Teyla is aware of that.

[ditto]



His eyes became empty very quickly.



Long story short - the loss of Elizabeth changed John profoundly, it affected on all of his relationships, on the way he communicates with other people.... PTB messed him up rather fine.

These are exactly the ideas I had at the time. Ronon/Keller would have worked on so many levels.

And the losing a teammate idea works right in line with my earlier post from S&R. I'm thinking also of the scene JM said was cut from Remnants where Kolya taunts John for letting Weir slip out of his fingers. Yeah, in S&R you could argue that he's talking about Ford but the Kolya line also points to her.

Now on Quarantine. Seeing your recap makes me sad that they didn't explore the friendship angle between Shep and Teyla more like they did with Ronon. When Ronon first came along I was all gung ho for Spanky and it did look like for all of S2 and most of S3 that this was a ship worth pursuing but I think real life spoiled the chemistry between them. And seeing the vids from DragonCon solidified my opinion. Joe and Jason and sometimes Paul treat Rachel like a little sister. I'm willing to bet if David had been there you could have added him into the mix. They irritate the heck out of her and love it. And you see them keep it up until she loses her temper and bashes one of them. It's a joy to behold. And then like brothers the world over *glares at the redBro* they sit back and declare victory.

How could they possibly have dropped that so completely if they had tried ship one of them with her? It wouldn't have worked. But the friendship did work with Ronon like those great scenes in Broken Ties and I think BAMSR where he is so supportive of her with the baby/Kanaan situation. The Quarantine scene and a few others are all we get of Shep/Teyla. I think there is one good one in The Queen also but it's way too serious. I would love to have seen him teasing her more like at the beginning of Missing and who can forget the infamous Teyla/Marine scene at the end of M&MM? But I think like with the scene I hear they cut of Teyla hugging Carson in CM they were afraid to look shippy. Sadly it just looked like they mostly ignored each other.

And again in Quarantine I'm surprised she still seems a bit insecure about her place on Atlantis. How many times does she have to be told she is considered family?

[Eri13]

These are exactly the ideas I had at the time. Ronon/Keller would have worked on so many levels.

And the losing a teammate idea works right in line with my earlier post from S&R. I'm thinking also of the scene JM said was cut from Remnants where Kolya taunts John for letting Weir slip out of his fingers. Yeah, in S&R you could argue that he's talking about Ford but the Kolya line also points to her.

Now on Quarantine. Seeing your recap makes me sad that they didn't explore the friendship angle between Shep and Teyla more like they did with Ronon. When Ronon first came along I was all gung ho for Spanky and it did look like for all of S2 and most of S3 that this was a ship worth pursuing but I think real life spoiled the chemistry between them. And seeing the vids from DragonCon solidified my opinion. Joe and Jason and sometimes Paul treat Rachel like a little sister. I'm willing to bet if David had been there you could have added him into the mix. They irritate the heck out of her and love it. And you see them keep it up until she loses her temper and bashes one of them. It's a joy to behold. And then like brothers the world over *glares at the redBro* they sit back and declare victory.

How could they possibly have dropped that so completely if they had tried ship one of them with her? It wouldn't have worked. But the friendship did work with Ronon like those great scenes in Broken Ties and I think BAMSR where he is so supportive of her with the baby/Kanaan situation. The Quarantine scene and a few others are all we get of Shep/Teyla. I think there is one good one in The Queen also but it's way too serious. I would love to have seen him teasing her more like at the beginning of Missing and who can forget the infamous Teyla/Marine scene at the end of M&MM? But I think like with the scene I hear they cut of Teyla hugging Carson in CM they were afraid to look shippy. Sadly it just looked like they mostly ignored each other.

And again in Quarantine I'm surprised she still seems a bit insecure about her place on Atlantis. How many times does she have to be told she is considered family?

I'm sure that Teyla was thinking of more than herself at that point. Her baby is Athosian, as is the man she loves, so it's more than just her that has to be accepted by Atlantis now. While I'm sure she feels that she is a part of the Atlantis family, Kanaan and the baby are not like Teyla, who has been a part of Atlantis so long--so I bet she feels a little insecure about where their place will be when all is said and done. I believe she wants to raise her baby to be proud of his Athosian roots, but that would be hard to do on Atlantis. And who knows how comfortable Kanaan would feel (in part I think we do because he is rarely there and interacting with Teyla's Atlantis family).

So perhaps this time she's looking for reassurance that the baby will be accepted as he is, too. John sorta gives her that by reassuring her that it makes no difference to him that the father is an Athosian, they'll still take care of it as though it was a baby born of the expedition, and do whatever she needs them to do to keep the baby safe, if that's what she wants. I think it's just enough for him to let her feel her baby will be as loved as she is by Atlantis.

I actually really liked all the stuff surrounding Teyla's pregnancy and the Atlantis members--Ronon's concern was touching (and awesome) and I liked John's tension, too, getting huffy about not knowing her situation. He goes to the extreme with that, which to me goes to that Elizabeth&Ford thing again--losing one of his teammates is one thing, but losing two at the same time--one a little soul who can't speak for himself--getting really angry over not knowing about it is totally in character for John, especially as raw as his nerves are in S4. The poor man's just bleeding out everywhere and nobody makes it easier.

[Probie]

Eri13:Me gustaría hablar español con usted. Recuerdo la "woobie face" en el episodio "Miller's crossing". Me encantó este episodio. Entiendo que usted no había visto la 'season" 5. No sé cómo decir la palabra 'season' en espanol.lol No me gusto la 'season' 5 pero hay algunos episodios buenos.

SR and Anuna:Now that I'm going to see seasons 4 and 5 with my mother, I would like to say 'thank you'. Thanks to you I'll be enjoy (maybe) this season. I did not pay attention to all these details.

It was very funny to watch the vids fron Dragon Con. They're kids.

[Southern Red]

I'm sure that Teyla was thinking of more than herself at that point. Her baby is Athosian, as is the man she loves, so it's more than just her that has to be accepted by Atlantis now. While I'm sure she feels that she is a part of the Atlantis family, Kanaan and the baby are not like Teyla, who has been a part of Atlantis so long--so I bet she feels a little insecure about where their place will be when all is said and done. I believe she wants to raise her baby to be proud of his Athosian roots, but that would be hard to do on Atlantis. And who knows how comfortable Kanaan would feel (in part I think we do because he is rarely there and interacting with Teyla's Atlantis family).

So perhaps this time she's looking for reassurance that the baby will be accepted as he is, too. John sorta gives her that by reassuring her that it makes no difference to him that the father is an Athosian, they'll still take care of it as though it was a baby born of the expedition, and do whatever she needs them to do to keep the baby safe, if that's what she wants. I think it's just enough for him to let her feel her baby will be as loved as she is by Atlantis.

I actually really liked all the stuff surrounding Teyla's pregnancy and the Atlantis members--Ronon's concern was touching (and awesome) and I liked John's tension, too, getting huffy about not knowing her situation. He goes to the extreme with that, which to me goes to that Elizabeth&Ford thing again--losing one of his teammates is one thing, but losing two at the same time--one a little soul who can't speak for himself--getting really angry over not knowing about it is totally in character for John, especially as raw as his nerves are in S4. The poor man's just bleeding out everywhere and nobody makes it easier.

I didn't consider Kanaan's feelings. You have a great point. And Teyla must have been concerned even more later when she finds out Kanaan has been turned into a hybrid. Poor guy. I wish we had seen him being assimilated a little more.

And I love the way you worded that sentence in bold. Poor John.

Eri13:Me gustaría hablar español con usted. Recuerdo la "woobie face" en el episodio "Miller's crossing". Me encantó este episodio. Entiendo que usted no había visto la 'season" 5. No sé cómo decir la palabra 'season' en espanol.lol No me gusto la 'season' 5 pero hay algunos episodios buenos.

SR and Anuna:Now that I'm going to see seasons 4 and 5 with my mother, I would like to say 'thank you'. Thanks to you I'll be enjoy (maybe) this season. I did not pay attention to all these details.

It was very funny to watch the vids fron Dragon Con. They're kids.

You're most welcome. Leave it to us to find the Sparkiness.

Those vids just made me grin like a fool. If any man alive is more adorable than Joe Flanigan, I don't want to know about him. And he just seems so happy these days. It makes my heart glad. *waits impatiently for his big announcement*

[Eri13]

Eri13:Me gustaría hablar español con usted. Recuerdo la "woobie face" en el episodio "Miller's crossing". Me encantó este episodio. Entiendo que usted no había visto la 'season" 5. No sé cómo decir la palabra 'season' en espanol.lol No me gusto la 'season' 5 pero hay algunos episodios buenos.

SR and Anuna:Now that I'm going to see seasons 4 and 5 with my mother, I would like to say 'thank you'. Thanks to you I'll be enjoy (maybe) this season. I did not pay attention to all these details.

It was very funny to watch the vids fron Dragon Con. They're kids.

Esta es practica muy bien para me, tengo problemas escribiendo en Espanol. Me gusta "Miller's Crossing" tambien, fue algo de mis favoritos de Season 4. Me gusta John Sheppard tan triste y un poquito malo.

I don't have accent keys on my keyboard and I don't know how to flip it around, so forgive my lack of accentes y tildes when I type.

[Probie]

I didn't consider Kanaan's feelings. You have a great point. And Teyla must have been concerned even more later when she finds out Kanaan has been turned into a hybrid. Poor guy. I wish we had seen him being assimilated a little more.

And I love the way you worded that sentence in bold. Poor John.



You're most welcome. Leave it to us to find the Sparkiness.

Those vids just made me grin like a fool. If any man alive is more adorable than Joe Flanigan, I don't want to know about him. And he just seems so happy these days. It makes my heart glad. *waits impatiently for his big announcement*

You don't want to know about him but I want.lol Yes, he seems very happy. I love all the jokes he did with Paul and Jason (and poor Rachel). Claudia and Ben are hilarious too.

Esta es practica muy bien para me, tengo problemas escribiendo en Espanol. Me gusta "Miller's Crossing" tambien, fue algo de mis favoritos de Season 4. Me gusta John Sheppard tan triste y un poquito malo.

I don't have accent keys on my keyboard and I don't know how to flip it around, so forgive my lack of accentes y tildes when I type.

Me encanta la última escena con Rodney.
Él prefiere empujar a alguien a cometer suicidio que perder a un amigo.
My Spanish teacher would be proud of me.lol

I forgot that you don't have accents keys on your keyboard. Not a problem for me.

I think I will watch "Quarantine" tonight thanks to you and think about what you said on it. I have to put my mom in the garden first. She didn't saw this episode and I don't want to "spoil" her.

Next time, I will post a message in French and Portuguese.lol Sparky in all languages.lol

[Eri13]

You don't want to know about him but I want.lol Yes, he seems very happy. I love all the jokes he did with Paul and Jason (and poor Rachel). Claudia and Ben are hilarious too.

Me encanta la última escena con Rodney.
Él prefiere empujar a alguien a cometer suicidio que perder a un amigo.
My Spanish teacher would be proud of me.lol

I forgot that you don't have accents keys on your keyboard. Not a problem for me.

I think I will watch "Quarantine" tonight thanks to you and think about what you said on it. I have to put my mom in the garden first. She didn't saw this episode and I don't want to "spoil" her.

Next time, I will post a message in French and Portuguese.lol Sparky in all languages.lol

So would my spanish teacher!!

I need to watch Lifeline--intending to do that at the gym today. Bleggggghhhhhhhhh...

[Anuna]

Okay, chicas, ja vas ništa ne razumijem.

That was Croatian for "I don't understand you at all". Actually, that was a lie, because I do understand un pocito of Spanish. Sparky works in any language for me, hehe!

[Eri13]

Okay, chicas, ja vas ništa ne razumijem.

That was Croatian for "I don't understand you at all". Actually, that was a lie, because I do understand un pocito of Spanish. Sparky works in any language for me, hehe!

Well, I think you guys are all amazing in any language. I wish American education focused on teaching us how to be productive in other languages. I can speak Spanish because my Mom is bilingual, not because I learned in school. All foreign exchange students I've ever met generally know at least 3 or 4 languages and I think it's amazing.

Another reason I loved Elizabeth--she knew at least, what, 5 languages fluently and a gaggle more proficiently? I wish we could have heard her speak in some, though thankfully her ability to read and translate Ancient and Wraith gave us some opportunity to see her proficiency in language abilities.

[Probie]

Okay, chicas, ja vas ništa ne razumijem.

That was Croatian for "I don't understand you at all". Actually, that was a lie, because I do understand un pocito of Spanish. Sparky works in any language for me, hehe!

J'ai pas compris ce que tu as écris en croate. Heureusement que tu as traduit.
"I have not understood what you write in Croatian. Fortunately you have translated."

War of language.lol
Elizabeth can speak 5 languages? Poor John.lol

[Probie]

Well, I think you guys are all amazing in any language. I wish American education focused on teaching us how to be productive in other languages. I can speak Spanish because my Mom is bilingual, not because I learned in school. All foreign exchange students I've ever met generally know at least 3 or 4 languages and I think it's amazing.

Another reason I loved Elizabeth--she knew at least, what, 5 languages fluently and a gaggle more proficiently? I wish we could have heard her speak in some, though thankfully her ability to read and translate Ancient and Wraith gave us some opportunity to see her proficiency in language abilities.

In France, english is an obligation. We have 3 or 4 hours of english class per week. After you have to choose between German and Spanish (2 or 3 hours per week). And when we are in high school, we can choose another language (latin, italian,..) or focus on one language that you already have.
I chose English and Spanish. My parents are portuguese. So I can speak 3 languages (and 4 if you count french). Not very well but I can understand and be understood (I hope lol).

[Anuna]

.... and in the meantime I'm writing soemthing smutty for all of you to enjoy.

[Probie]

.... and in the meantime I'm writing soemthing smutty for all of you to enjoy.

Yeah
Heu...no I'm not a pervert.lol
Can't wait to read it.