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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Random but still on topic - I have "Farewell to Harry"!!!!! OMG!!!! OMG!!!!
    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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      Part two:

      6.Are there elements in “Vegas” you find unconvincing, and why?

      If I had to come up with something, I'd say it wasn't terribly logical that McKay and Woolsey took the trouble to track Sheppard down and go through the whole debriefing thing and then tell him “don't call us, we'll call you.” They wanted to know what he knew? They could have read his reports on the various crimes. They needed his help? Why? With all their resources, couldn't they just follow him or send somebody undercover to work with him? He didn't seem like a very trustworthy character so I doubt they would have revealed the Stargate program to him.

      It's also not very logical that the Wraith could have sat through an entire poker game without saying a word. I know characters are welcome in Vegas, but that's a bit OTT. I suppose he could have messed with everybody's head. *shrugs*

      7.We learn that there is a Wraith on Earth, and he is living undercover while trying to accomplish his plan – send a message to Pegasus Galaxy through subspace. Did you find the Wraith plot believable?

      See above. Probably not but as I said he can mess with your head. However, just go down to the mall and people watch. Some of those folks have just got to be aliens. LOL It would also have been a problem if he couldn't talk to get the supplies he needed and so his business. I just choose to handwave all that.

      8.What are your three favorite things about this episode?

      OMG? Just 3. 1. the music and how it fits into the story
      2.Joe's acting and how he brings sad!Shep to life and makes us love him
      3.the clever way RCC wove us a new Sheppard without destroying the old one. This is a character I want to see more of.

      9.What do you think made John turn around at the end and drive to stop the Wraith?

      He was thinking like a detective. He remembered certain things about the Wraith, what Rodney had told him about how they feed, the condition of the bodies, where he had seen the trailer, even Todd's comment about the desert. Then he put it all together. I don't think he stopped to think about it at that point but just did what he was trained to do.

      Who knows what he was originally planning to do. Probably start a new life. Yet why the cross? Maybe a new beginning. But it was obviously weighing heavily on him that he was doing something illegal and stupid. Finally, like our Sheppard, his need to save people became too powerful and he went into hero mode. He did it because he was the one who could...he's the guy and that's what the guy does.

      10.Finally, RCC treated us with the ending we were never before given on SGA – he killed off the series lead, John Sheppard himself. How did you feel about the ending? Should he have done it differently and let him live?

      No, it was the best possible ending. Dead in the dirt like a dog but redeemed and a hero in the eyes of a lot of people who didn't think much of him before. He could have let him live and had him clean himself up and become chief of police...snort...but that would have been beyond cheesy. Sometimes high drama is the only option. A lot of people complained about how gloomy and depressed and OOC Sheppard was in S5. I say to those people that, with all due respect, you don't understand drama. John Sheppard, in both universes, had lost a good part of everything that he cared about. The Pegasus John at any given moment could lose his home, his friends and his very life. What has he got to be skipping through the halls about? His burden of command was very real and the fact that he could joke about it even a little bit was a testament to his strength of character.

      By killing Sheppard, RCC showed us just one way his life could have turned out. In an infinite number of universes he is going to die in more than a few of him. He has been near death way too many times. Heck, somewhere he died from being fed on by Todd and another time the Daedalus didn't save him before he blew himself up. I could go on and on. RCC and JF, who as I understand it had quite a bit of input here, gave us a look at one possible outcome of John's choices.

      And a tentative Sparky bonus:

      11.Do you think this episode is Sparky relevant at all?

      This is perhaps the most relevant Sparky episode of all. Both men lost someone they cared about and their lives took a dark turn. Our Shep just had support and a stronger sense of duty to help save him. It was the belief in him that Elizabeth had that brought him to Atlantis in the first place. She was perhaps the most relevant person in his life. Losing her changed him and made him darker because he blames himself for not saving her. Thus he becomes more like Vegas John. They are mirror images.

      12.Does the idea of Elizabeth being the nurse John was in love with make any sense to you?

      It's not logical but considering the infinite number of possibilities is certainly possible. And remember she wasn't just a nurse, but a medic. Much closer to a doctor than a nurse. I can imagine a scenario where instead of going into political science, Elizabeth has a reason to join the military. Perhaps her father was a doctor in the military or served in some other way and she wanted to honor him. Perhaps whatever turned her against the military never happened and she instead saw the good in them and wanted to help people so she combined the medical career with the military career and became a medic.

      It's obviously not our Elizabeth, but the idea is that she had a profound affect on him which not too many people can disagree that our Elizabeth did also.

      13.In your own words, what does this episode tell us about Sparky and our regular John’s bond to Elizabeth? Does it tell us anything at all?

      That it was profound and life changing. If at their core, both Johns are the same, then we have to say that losing her was the catalyst to change both men. The medic may not literally have been Elizabeth in any universe but logically, losing her made the difference.

      a. Both Johns lost someone they cared about.
      b. Both Johns became darker
      c. Losing someone they cared about changed both Johns.

      Not perfect logic but hard to dispute unless you want to twist canon to your own devices.
      sigpic

      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
        WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW...



        Awww...I'm sorry, but I have to admit that's terribly funny.



        Prayers to you, your Mom and your family. I hope everything goes well. Good luck with your work.



        I will try not to forget tonight. I'm writing a post it note for my computer right now.

        QUESTION: Given the brilliant job by Anuna on Vegas, and that questions are coming today, when would you guys like the Vengeance recap/discussion?

        I unfortunately did not get to watch First Strike (and hence have not watched Vegas yet. It's not me slacking, but I need something to motivate me to watch First Strike--with Elizabeth being blown through the gateroom--otherwise I'll procrastinate and let months pass.)

        I actually opted not to continue with FS because I enjoyed Vengeance a bit more than I thought I would and didn't want to ruin the vibes with sad stuff.

        So I need to farm pictures, but otherwise my Vengeance discussion is pretty good to go--let me know when you'd like it (so we have plenty of time to digest 'Nuna's Vegas master recap) and I'll work to deliver.

        I will watch First Strike soon, perhaps tonight, so I can jump into the Vegas goodness.
        Oh It's not nice to laugh about my poor life.lol At the beginning, it was funny. I was dancing and singing in my bed like a stupid and lonely girl and 5 hours later, the old woman in me who need 12 hours for sleep was awake and wanted to kill my neighbor.lol
        I can't wait to see your post about Exogenesis. No pressure...lol

        Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
        Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

        Eri, I think maybe give a day or two while Anuna gets her Vegas discussion questions up would be good, then post the Vengeance recap. And oh, I so understand the not wanting to ruin the good mood after watching Vengeance by watching FS. Eeep.

        *huggles Probie* Sorry your boss is being such a pain.



        Oooooh, I like this idea. Normally I'm with SR that it's not very likely John went to the Academy, but this certainly sounds possible.



        A plot bunny and something to think about in terms of John's development, and what Elizabeth sees in him. Good catch!



        *flailing like mad* Gah! More food for thought! And my Big Bang plot bunny is perking up and looking very, very hungry! Which is good, since the poor thing was pouting that I couldn't play with it yesterday due to the damn computer fiasco.
        Yes he's pain but it's a boss so it's normal. I have a little talk with the clone of Joe this afternoon. I'm so sad because this guy is so stupid. A deception.lol
        sigpic
        Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          1.“Vegas” is the only episode of SGA dealing with real AU – meaning, the story is set in a universe different than the one we’re used to. Furthermore, the AU is wrapped up into homage to CSI Las Vegas. Did you enjoy this setting and the different approach to SGA?
          I don't like CSI but it was interesting to see SGA in another universe. And like SR, I love the music in it.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          2. Did you find the story of “Vegas” and the AU setting believable?
          I was afraid at the beginning. I thought this episode will be a disaster. But no it's believable. More believable than some others episodes of SGA. I don't talk about the aliens but some stories of course.lol It was not out of characters, ...

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          3. In the “Vegas” recap I mentioned that AU’s are meant for playing with “what if” scenarios, while keeping the characters true to themselves. Do you think that Robert C. Cooper succeeded in that mission (to present us the same characters in different life circumstances)?
          Take the answer of SR and put this here.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          4. RCC decided to leave out Teyla and Ronon and didn’t bring them into this story. What is your view of this decision? Did RCC make a mistake for not including these two characters?
          For once, the fact that Teyla and Ronon were not in the episode was (for once) justified. John didn't know Pegasus and Atlantis. They have no place in this episode and it would be hard to justify their "presence".

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          5. In your opinion, did we learn anything new about our regular John Sheppard with the help of this episode?
          New? No, I don't think so. We just saw the dark side, the gilty, the pain and the loneliness of John. Not new but for once it's used.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          6. Are there elements in “Vegas” you find unconvincing, and why?
          Nothing through my mind for the moment.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          7.We learn that there is a Wraith on Earth, and he is living undercover while trying to accomplish his plan – send a message to Pegasus Galaxy through subspace. Did you find the Wraith plot believable?
          Ok yes it's a little strange but they did worse in the show.lol

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          8. What are your three favorite things about this episode?
          1/ Joe and his acting (and because he's hot in it too)
          2/ The music
          3/A mixture of Joe and music: The last scene where John died and the song "solitary man" behind.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          9. What do you think made John turn around at the end and drive to stop the Wraith?
          I steal the answer of SR again.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          10.Finally, RCC treated us with the ending we were never before given on SGA – he killed off the series lead, John Sheppard himself. How did you feel about the ending? Should he have done it differently and let him live?
          I love this scene. It's my favorite. Yes it's strange but I like it. John seems in peace at the end and facing the sky. Great ending. Thanks RCC.

          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          And a tentative Sparky bonus:

          11. Do you think this episode is Sparky relevant at all?

          12. Does the idea of Elizabeth being the nurse John was in love with make any sense to you?

          13. In your own words, what does this episode tell us about Sparky and our regular John’s bond to Elizabeth? Does it tell us anything at all?

          11/The first time that I watched this episode: no. The second: maybe and the third time: Yes. My brain works very slowly.lol "Both men lost someone they cared about and their lives took a dark turn."= Exactly what I want to say. Thanks SR. Sorry, I steal all your answers but like I said my brain doesn't work now.lol

          12/ No, sorry. But in Sci fi, "everything is possible".

          13/The lost of a woman (his love) broke both Sheppard. The nurse for AU John and Elizabeth for the "real" John. It's show that it's a pretty big bond between them. *looking at SR answer* I can't turn her sentence in another way so take it and put it here again.LOL

          Ok now good night everybody.Lol
          sigpic
          Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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            Now I really go to bed.
            I was working on some drawings (not finish). I did Ronon and another on with someone who was suppose to be Keller lol. And I did a beginning of a Sparky drawing with a decor behind (stargate and jumpers). It's not finish but I hope that I will can post it this month or this year.lol
            Bye
            sigpic
            Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

            Comment


              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
              I don't know much about the military or the military mentality, so I can't weigh in well...

              Considering John's 'punishment' for disobeying, they treated his actions very severally.
              Not to mention... others have been awarded the Medal of Honor for taking such actions to save the lives of their fellow soldiers. Yet John gets the book thrown at him?

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              Very good points and lots of food for thought. I think JM said John was the older brother which makes his attitude even more poignant for his family. Older bro expected to follow in Dad's footsteps and take over the company rebels and completely separates himself from the family. Must have taken big brass ones.

              I wonder when the final break came. Something to do with his mother's death? And we learned that his dad didn't hate him and wanted to see him in Outcast which made his death very much sadder for John.
              I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had to do with his mother's death. I wish Mallozzi had stuck to his guns and kept that line in Remnants about John not blaming himself for what happened to his mother.

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              I have to disagree that we know he was in black ops. We know he had special training, maybe rangers or something comparable but we don't know he was in black ops. To do that he would probably have been in Intelligence. They don't just pick any old pilot and give him that kind of training. My reasoning is based on his fair to poor hand to hand combat skills. He's unusually good with weapons for a pilot and pretty good with a knife but to be special ops he would have to be able to kill with his bare hands and fight off a larger opponent. He can't even beat Teyla with sticks. He seems to be a product of mostly bad writing that plays fast and loose with reality so I don't think we can expect logic.
              Nancy's comments in Outcast about John always dropping everything at a moment's notice for a mission and not talking about it, about his keeping secrets, would appear to imply that John was involved in some sort of covert operations. I get the feeling that between this and the times when we've seen him "go commando" like in The Storm/The Eye, the writers did intend for Sheppard to be seen as former Special Ops, but I agree with you that the writers didn't get all the details correct.

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              I think most of John's attitude is fueled by his poor self image. It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. He expects to screw up. He expects his superiors to look at him like Sumner did. Caldwell, I think, came to respect him in time. "The chain of command is sometimes fuzzy on Atlantis" is a very interesting comment. Caldwell at that time had not spent very much time with them, yet he had picked up on the "dual" leadership of Weir and Sheppard and because it was not in keeping with his strict military ideas, he didn't like it. He also saw that John treated those under his command on a more equal basis with a lot less protocol than Caldwell would have done. Yet later on in Trinity and First Strike, John sides with the military. Everett in Siege 3 came to see that John was right and I think Ellis respected him even though he tried to manipulate him and get him to turn against Elizabeth. Sam and Woolsey certainly respected him and trusted his judgment.
              There's that comment he made to Elizabeth in The Intruder about people in the Air Force never expecting him to make it past Captain, too. Makes me wonder if this lowered self-esteem stems from the previous problems with not meeting his father's expectations of him.

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              Or did David just go along with his dad's wishes to make up for John's disobedience? That might explain some of his hostility toward John. Hmm?
              That makes a great deal of sense. John was the eldest son, who Dad intended to have take over the family business, and David, as younger son, might have had a bit of freedom to strike out on his own, but when John breaks away, David gives up whatever plans he might have had in order to take John's place. Resentment central.

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              Thus Caldwell's comment on how close they were. I definitely think Sam and Jack got the Sparky relationship, not the shippy part but the working relationship. In The Seer I think it was or maybe some other ep, when Sam said to John that he was thinking in a certain way because he was in Weir's old office, I think that was her way of telling him she understood their relationship. I found that comment very interesting. John was changed a lot by Elizabeth's influence yet his core beliefs in what was the right thing to do were still there.
              I think we can see a number of parallels between Sam and Jack, and John and Elizabeth, both professionally and personally. And I think Sam certainly picked up on that, and perhaps Jack did as well.


              My answers on Vegas coming soon!
              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Probie View Post
                Now I really go to bed.
                I was working on some drawings (not finish). I did Ronon and another on with someone who was suppose to be Keller lol. And I did a beginning of a Sparky drawing with a decor behind (stargate and jumpers). It's not finish but I hope that I will can post it this month or this year.lol
                Bye
                G'night!
                Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  G'night!
                  I hope I will have my report on Exogenesis tomorrow. I wait this like a gift for Christmas.lol
                  I will stop annoying you with this. Sorry.
                  sigpic
                  Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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                    Originally posted by Probie View Post
                    I hope I will have my report on Exogenesis tomorrow. I wait this like a gift for Christmas.lol
                    I will stop annoying you with this. Sorry.
                    No you're fine! I need multiple reminders otherwise I do forget.
                    Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                    Comment


                      Okay, Vegas Q&A!

                      1. “Vegas” is the only episode of SGA dealing with real AU – meaning, the story is set in a universe different than the one we’re used to. Furthermore, the AU is wrapped up into homage to CSI Las Vegas. Did you enjoy this setting and the different approach to SGA?

                      I definitely enjoyed it. It was a nice change of pace from the typical storylines we've seen over the years.

                      2. Did you find the story of “Vegas” and the AU setting believable?

                      More or less. Honestly, I think I was having too much fun watching the episode to really notice any glaring mis-steps.

                      3. In the “Vegas” recap I mentioned that AU’s are meant for playing with “what if” scenarios, while keeping the characters true to themselves. Do you think that Robert C. Cooper succeeded in that mission (to present us the same characters in different life circumstances)?

                      RCC dun good. And I find it ironic that it's an AU that shows the characters at their most consistent yet.

                      4. RCC decided to leave out Teyla and Ronon and didn’t bring them into this story. What is your view of this decision? Did RCC make a mistake for not including these two characters?

                      I think it was the right decision. As the Vegas-verse was supposed to be very close to the SGA!Prime-verse (save for Sheppard never knowing about Atlantis), it stands to reason that Teyla and Ronon, who were brought into the fold in Atlantis by Sheppard, would not have appeared here.

                      5. In your opinion, did we learn anything new about our regular John Sheppard with the help of this episode?

                      I don't know if we learned anything truly new... more like, Vegas reinforced things we'd suspected about Sheppard.

                      6. Are there elements in “Vegas” you find unconvincing, and why?

                      Unconvincing? Vegas? Nah, not really.

                      On reflection, I do think SR's got a good point about whether or not McKay and Woolsey really would've gone to all that trouble to find Sheppard, drag him to Area 51 to tell him what's what, and then just cut him loose.

                      7. We learn that there is a Wraith on Earth, and he is living undercover while trying to accomplish his plan – send a message to Pegasus Galaxy through subspace. Did you find the Wraith plot believable?

                      Considering all the weirdos who already hang out in the real Las Vegas, yeah, I think it wouldn't be all that hard for a Wraith to blend in.

                      8. What are your three favorite things about this episode?

                      1. Vegas!Shep.
                      2. The music. Johnny Cash for the win.
                      3. The choice in AU setting. When I first heard the idea, I wasn't sure if I'd like it, but I really enjoyed it.

                      9. What do you think made John turn around at the end and drive to stop the Wraith?

                      If, as has been noted, the effort John makes to clean himself up physically parallels his attempt to make a change in his life, then his decision to take matters into his own hands and do something to stop the Wraith is a logical extension of this change in him.

                      10. Finally, RCC treated us with the ending we were never before given on SGA – he killed off the series lead, John Sheppard himself. How did you feel about the ending? Should he have done it differently and let him live?

                      The ending was perfect. Just as the episode itself and the AU depicted was a major departure from the rest of the series, the ending was also a major departure, as it needed to be.

                      And a tentative Sparky bonus:

                      11. Do you think this episode is Sparky relevant at all?

                      12. Does the idea of Elizabeth being the nurse John was in love with make any sense to you?

                      13. In your own words, what does this episode tell us about Sparky and our regular John’s bond to Elizabeth? Does it tell us anything at all?


                      Vegas is absolutely relevant to Sparky. While we don't know for certain if Elizabeth was the medic, the fact that Vegas!Shep's reactions to hearing McKay bring up the incident are virtually identical to Shep!Prime's reaction to losing Elizabeth, tells us that the depth of the feelings that each Shep had for each of these women was the same.
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                      Comment


                        Anuna, I will get to your questions, right after this

                        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                        Stupid restrictions. Okay, if you can find it somewhere else, it's worth a listen. It's Love by Sugarland.
                        I'll be in the lookout for it... lyrics look very interesting and yes, also Sparky

                        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                        This is a very interesting supposition. Possible but not likely. I know people who went to the academy and I know special ops people. The first group is more varied. Example. A high school friend of my son's who was just a bit quirky. Disorganized, smart, snarky...hmmm. sound familiar? The academy trained him to be a good officer but personality wise he's still the same. His training, however, kicks in when he needs it and he does what has to be done. A lot like John. But disobey a direct order. No, he wouldn't unless someone's life was at stake. Hmm again.

                        The special ops guys I know, and there are several who do things in units that don't officially exist, are even more like John. Laid back, good sense of humor every one of them, loving family men with yards and kids. They're not muscle bound Rambo's. In fact you'd never pick them out of a crowd as being anything special. Duh. That's why they are able to blend in with other cultures so well. Disobeying an order and thinking too much in a combat situation will get these men killed. They undergo arduous training not to think but to act by instinct. So they are less likely to disobey a direct order. Again, however, a special case like John was in might make the difference. This is definitely a good plot bunny.

                        Here's an additional thought. I know a man who dropped out of "spy school" because he couldn't take the psychological pressure. There's a high suicide rate among operatives for those secret organizations. Hmmm a third time.
                        If there's a plotbunny you can't let it go to waste
                        And you're right... that's a lot of good points you bring up and a lot of hmm's indeed...

                        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                        QUESTION: Given the brilliant job by Anuna on Vegas, and that questions are coming today, when would you guys like the Vengeance recap/discussion?
                        I agree with the others, post it after the Anuna's Vegas discussion goes down bit. Maybe in a day or two or three...

                        Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                        *flailing like mad* Gah! More food for thought! And my Big Bang plot bunny is perking up and looking very, very hungry! Which is good, since the poor thing was pouting that I couldn't play with it yesterday due to the damn computer fiasco.
                        *grins*
                        Yay for the BB plotbunny

                        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                        Guys, how about a Sparky fanmix made entirely of U2 songs? Any takers?
                        Gosh, will have to think about it... I know a lot of their songs, but I'll still need to check some out before posting them.

                        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                        I don't know much about the military or the military mentality, so I can't weigh in well...

                        Considering John's 'punishment' for disobeying, they treated his actions very severally. Just thinking aloud, now, here's what we know about John...

                        - Younger son of a wealthy businessman
                        - Did not get along with his father (black sheep of the family?)
                        - Considered a rebel by his elder, businessman-like brother
                        - Something happened to his Mom that affected him
                        - Was married
                        - Marriage failed because he was so secretive about his job
                        - Don't know about where he went to school, how he got in the military or what his career was like pre-Afghanistan.
                        - Know he was a good black ops operative based on his abilities in Pegasus
                        - Also know he has a 'no holds barred' side based on actions in The Eye and Miller's Crossing. He could act on instinct and kill without much thought if pushed into it.

                        //snipped for space//
                        You're also bringing up a lot of very good points.
                        I also think John joined the military as a sort of rebellion against his father.
                        And the fact that his dad saw him as the black sheep of the family, stuck with him forever.
                        Elizabeth never saw that in him and that's why he accepts her lead without barely any questions.
                        So very very true!!

                        Originally posted by Regularamanda View Post
                        I finally got around to watching GitM (spoilered because I'm not sure they're supposed to be out of spoilers or not )

                        Spoiler:
                        I loved the Sparky in it, and the actor that played Fran did an excellent job I was very impressed.

                        John looked devestated at the end *sniff*

                        And to be in almost seemed like it was after John said that she wasn't Elizabeth that she made the decision to leave/die. *more sniffs*

                        Now I'm depressed
                        I was also depressed after I saw the ep
                        Especially after John's woobie face at the end... so sad and so very very heartbreaking
                        And yes, the actress portraying Franibeth did a very good job with her mannerism and all... kudos to her, but she will obviously never truly be Elizabeth.

                        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                        Very good points and lots of food for thought. I think JM said John was the older brother which makes his attitude even more poignant for his family. Older bro expected to follow in Dad's footsteps and take over the company rebels and completely separates himself from the family. Must have taken big brass ones.

                        I wonder when the final break came. Something to do with his mother's death? And we learned that his dad didn't hate him and wanted to see him in Outcast which made his death very much sadder for John.

                        //snipped for space//
                        Oh, you're also so very right.
                        John really did have that 'I always screw up, so why would I even try' attitude.
                        But Elizabeth's faith in him changed that. It's because of her trust in him that he regained trust in himself...
                        Oh wow... someone has to use this in a fic!

                        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                        I love your insight and explanation. I have a feeling that John felt he was "in between" his parents, loved and cared for his Mom, but always wanted approval from his Dad - which was hard to get, of course. I have a feeling that, beside being an emotionally detached man, John's father wanted John to be something he wasn't, or didn't care for. He probably didn't have enough understanding for John, who needed a different kind of encouragement (different kind than worked for David, different kind than his father was used to giving) - to help him reach his own kind of excellence. Something made John rebel, perhaps the way his father behaved while John's mom was sick (that's my speculation, that she was sick).

                        John ended up in military, and it worked well until he felt and needed he had to act differently than the military wanted him. They labeled him a black sheep and his superiors, the same archetypes like his father, treated him the same way his father did.

                        Then came Elizabeth who found the right way to motivate John.
                        Hehe, Elizabeth certainly did find the right way to motivate John

                        I also think John's mom died of a sickness. He was probably with her when she died while his dad was at work, where he had always been.
                        Dave/David (whatever his name was) was probably too young to remember all the details and never blamed his dad for leaving his mom alone like John probably does.

                        Gosh... we're sprouting a lot of bunnies today, aren't we?

                        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                        Random but still on topic - I have "Farewell to Harry"!!!!! OMG!!!! OMG!!!!
                        Lucky you!!! Please, tell us all about it!!

                        Sig by me

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                          *rubs hands*
                          Alright, let's tackle this questionairre

                          1. “Vegas” is the only episode of SGA dealing with real AU – meaning, the story is set in a universe different than the one we’re used to. Furthermore, the AU is wrapped up into homage to CSI Las Vegas. Did you enjoy this setting and the different approach to SGA?

                          Yes, I loved it! I'm a huge fan of CSI, so I loved this small homage to it.
                          Usually AU's make me eyeroll when I see what they did to the characters, but I totally didn't have it with this AU. So yes, I loved it and they should have done at least one of this every season

                          2. Did you find the story of “Vegas” and the AU setting believable?

                          Yes. Like SK, when I first heard about it, I was like: 'hu... are they serious?'
                          But when I watched the ep, I loved it and it was totally fitting.

                          3. In the “Vegas” recap I mentioned that AU’s are meant for playing with “what if” scenarios, while keeping the characters true to themselves. Do you think that Robert C. Cooper succeeded in that mission (to present us the same characters in different life circumstances)?

                          Oh, yes. Very much so.
                          We see John in a whole different light and yet not.
                          We see what he could have been become and it was believable as we see the same traits in our John at times.

                          4. RCC decided to leave out Teyla and Ronon and didn’t bring them into this story. What is your view of this decision? Did RCC make a mistake for not including these two characters?

                          No mistake what so ever.
                          They didn't belong in that AU, it's as simple as that.
                          People who complain about it obviously don't get what this AU is about or where it's set.
                          Like someone mentioned before: John brought both Teyla and Ronon to Atlantis, so how would they join the expedition when John wasn't there to show them the way?
                          So, yeah... it was the only episode in s5 where it was justified for them not be in.

                          5. In your opinion, did we learn anything new about our regular John Sheppard with the help of this episode?

                          Yes, we got to see his dark side... his real dark side, not the trained dark John we got to see in tS/tE... but his side when everything in his life goes wrong, when he has no one left who loves him or to love. When he has absolutely nothing left.
                          We already know what John is capable of when pushed to the limit as he was in tS/tE, but now we know what he's capable to doing to himself when he has nothing left to live for.
                          It was scary and I hope our John will never turn into this John. Right now our John still has too much too live for, even after loosing Elizabeth, but if he looses everything...
                          Heck... plotbunny :-/ *headdesk*

                          6. Are there elements in “Vegas” you find unconvincing, and why?

                          I enjoyed the episode way too much to look for anything unconvincing
                          But as been said before: it was kinda stupid that McKay briefed Shep about everything and then send him away... I mean... wtf?

                          7. We learn that there is a Wraith on Earth, and he is living undercover while trying to accomplish his plan – send a message to Pegasus Galaxy through subspace. Did you find the Wraith plot believable?

                          Yeah, like someone else said, just go sit somewhere and watch the people that walk by and you'll see tons of people who could easily pass as aliens.
                          He knew Earth was one of the richest feeding grounds his people would ever have, so he needed to do anything in his power to let them know about it.

                          8. What are your three favorite things about this episode?

                          Difficult to choose but:
                          1) Joe's performance
                          2) the overall look and lighting of the ep
                          3) music

                          9. What do you think made John turn around at the end and drive to stop the Wraith?

                          All in all John Sheppard is a good man, no matter what happened to him.
                          When he had to choose between doing the right thing or the wrong thing, he did what he knew in his heart was right: go fight the bad guy.

                          10. Finally, RCC treated us with the ending we were never before given on SGA – he killed off the series lead, John Sheppard himself. How did you feel about the ending? Should he have done it differently and let him live?

                          Ah, but are we certain he's death? We know that McKay and his people were on their way to the Wraith's hide out. What if they had been there on time and managed to save John?
                          To me the ep has an open ending concerning John's fate. As long as I don't see a gravestone with his name on it, the balance can still go both ways.
                          But I did like the dark and not so happy ending. It was very fitting to the ep.

                          11. Do you think this episode is Sparky relevant at all?

                          Yes, if only because we get to see what could have happened to John if Elizabeth hadn't dragged him to Atlantis.

                          12. Does the idea of Elizabeth being the nurse John was in love with make any sense to you?

                          Yes it does, because he reacted the same to the nurse's death as our John does to Liz's death.
                          But I just had a thought: in the ep they say that John never married. What if the nurse was Nancy? We know he loved her deeply at one point in time. So it's logical he would react to her death the same way as our John reacts to Liz's death.
                          Ok... bring on the wrath

                          13. In your own words, what does this episode tell us about Sparky and our regular John’s bond to Elizabeth? Does it tell us anything at all?

                          Yes, it tells us how Elizabeth saved John by dragging him to Atlantis. How she saved him by believing in him and giving him her trust.
                          She didn't just save his career, but his character too. Because of her, he became a truly good and great man.

                          Sig by me

                          Comment


                            KrisRussel, a comment of yours made me think of something really sad. You mentioned John's gravestone. If he is truly dead at the end of Vegas, what happened to him? He had quit the police department. Would they have buried him? Would the SGC or the IOA now be responsible? Or would he end up in a pauper's grave paid for by the state? Sad either way.
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                            Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                              *grins*
                              Yay for the BB plotbunny
                              *snerks*

                              Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                              Yes, we got to see his dark side... his real dark side, not the trained dark John we got to see in tS/tE... but his side when everything in his life goes wrong, when he has no one left who loves him or to love. When he has absolutely nothing left.
                              We already know what John is capable of when pushed to the limit as he was in tS/tE, but now we know what he's capable to doing to himself when he has nothing left to live for.
                              It was scary and I hope our John will never turn into this John. Right now our John still has too much too live for, even after loosing Elizabeth, but if he looses everything...

                              Heck... plotbunny :-/ *headdesk*
                              *BB plot bunny pounces on carrots*

                              Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                              Yes it does, because he reacted the same to the nurse's death as our John does to Liz's death.
                              But I just had a thought: in the ep they say that John never married. What if the nurse was Nancy? We know he loved her deeply at one point in time. So it's logical he would react to her death the same way as our John reacts to Liz's death.
                              Ok... bring on the wrath
                              Actually, I think that makes a lot of sense. If Elizabeth could've been the medic, then why couldn't Nancy? Either one is certainly possible.
                              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                KrisRussel, a comment of yours made me think of something really sad. You mentioned John's gravestone. If he is truly dead at the end of Vegas, what happened to him? He had quit the police department. Would they have buried him? Would the SGC or the IOA now be responsible? Or would he end up in a pauper's grave paid for by the state? Sad either way.
                                Would his family have claimed his body and arranged a burial, or is he just as estranged from them in the Vegas-verse? Or worse? Very, very sad.
                                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                                Comment

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