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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Okay, thank you for putting up with me. And, I am very sorry I've done this instead of "Remnants" recap as I promised. However, bot episodes are equally relevant to Sparky and the way John has changed due to the loss of Elizabeth.


    Spoiler:




    Next thing we learn, John resigns his position. Why, it isn’t completely certain. Perhaps because he has enough money? Or perhaps that there could be another reason for his existence? He is wearing a new, clean white shirt and – a cross. Talk about symbolism here. Also, the only thing John takes with him, from his office, is his Johnny Cash poster.



    After this, we proceed toward the conclusion of the story. John is free to go, and for a moment it looks like he is going to take the money and run away – which would leave him the same dishonored man he is ever since Afghanistan accident.



    Take a note of the music that’s playing here. We finally hear Johnny Cash in SGA, and the song that was picked (by JF and RCC)? “Solitary Man”. I don’t think I need to tell you just how and why this particular song is so appropriate.



    A small Sparky tidbit. John’s car is red.

    Even in redemption, John still remains tainted (which is something I LOVE). Remember this bag?





    And yes, he feels guilty about it.


    And as John drives he thinks about everything that had happened, and suddenly connects all the pieces into a whole. Which is where the true change of character takes place, and he turns back to do a good thing for the right reason, no matter what it’s going to cost him.



    John finds the Wraith. He calls Rodney who tries to warn him not to do anything by himself, but John doesn’t hear him. And just as our John, this John is a one man army. He goes to face the danger by himself. Wrong decision.






    A shootout between John and the Wraith follows. John’s car ends up pierced with bullets, like in “The Godfather”, and John ends up shot.

    Spoiler:


    (But not before we were given some of the finest thunk moments of SGA. Spoilered for the cause of propriety.)








    John is badly wounded....



    The Wraith is about to feed on him, but the good guys are faster. However, our bad guy still manages to send his message through subspace (as McKay explains to us all), which causes the events in the following (and the final) episode of the series.




    The Wraith is destroyed, albeit too late.




    Finally, another thing that never happened in SGA happens here – John Sheppard, the man who never wanted to be the hero, actually dies, with nobody around to witness his sacrifice or his bravery. His effort was acknowledged by Rodney, however, the fact remains that John dies in the desert, completely alone – in the same way he spent a significant part of his life (and again, there is a voice of Johnny Cash with us).







    I can't help but think how strangely pacified he looks here.


    Goodbye, John. No matter what anyone says, you are a hero.

    Finally, done! I may come up with discussion questions later, but if anyone else wants to do them, be my guest. And please, discuss! This episode simply deserves it.


    It's hard to sum everything up simply - I LOVE this episode to the bits, because of it's great writing, amazingly done AU, care for the continuity, smart telling with bits and details that matter. I love the camera work, the way CSI was emulated, the dialogue. I even love the ending nobody had expected. As far as I am concerned, this is one of the best, if not even the single best episode of SGA. It made a great homage to it's older sister in style, CSI; but it was also a great dedication to everything SGA wasn't, but could have been - a truly compelling, amazingly written show.

    Also, this is the single true Shepisode we ever had, where John Sheppard is the lead without any doubt (despite McKay having more lines than him). Also, I've mentioned dozen of times, this is where we see Joe Flanigan giving us his very best acting, turning John Sheppard inside out and helping us all see what John is really about.

    Finally, even though Elizabeth wasn't mentioned here, everything about John, from his scruffy, neglected outlook, to his flaws of character scream lack of Elizabeth Weir's influence in his life. If that's not a true confirmation of Sparky, or at least the strength and importance of John - Elizabeth bond, then I don't know what it is.
    Last edited by Anuna; 09 August 2009, 06:46 AM.
    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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      Wow Well Done. That was very Good I mean it Very Good I dont even think i could do better.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
        Wow Well Done. That was very Good I mean it Very Good I dont even think i could do better.
        Thank you! I spent quite some time doing this recap.

        What is your favorite part of this episode?
        I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

        Comment


          well it's hard to pick a favorite moment. but It would either had been the whole Sheppard Driving away with the money but then i got that feeling that He wanted to redeem himself by making sure the wraith got captured. The Shoot Out. and The Whole Rodney/John Scenes about The Whole Incident in Afghanistan.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
            well it's hard to pick a favorite moment. but It would either had been the whole Sheppard Driving away with the money but then i got that feeling that He wanted to redeem himself by making sure the wraith got captured. The Shoot Out. and The Whole Rodney/John Scenes about The Whole Incident in Afghanistan.
            Yep, same here! I love those scenes too, they're most emotional ones, along with those tiny moments - the chewing gum, John's sleeves, the way he reacts to Todd, the poker game. I just LOVE this episode to the bits.
            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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              i just like cause we get to see a Different John Sheppard. i like that Joe F did a good job in this episode. favorite Sheppard episode ever.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
                i just like cause we get to see a Different John Sheppard. i like that Joe F did a good job in this episode. favorite Sheppard episode ever.
                Ditto. This is Joe at his very best.

                Okay, guys, I have a bust to catch tomorrow and must say up for quite a while! The excitement! U2, live in concert!!!!

                Good night and have fun with "Vegas" discussion! I'll do my best to drop in tomorrow in the morning
                I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                  i noticed in recent episodes its look like Sheppard hasn't shaved in quite some time and im wondering if it was elizabeth that gave john motive to shave.

                  Comment


                    Waaahhhh! Anuna, I can't give you any green! *kicks forum*

                    So, everyone who reads Anuna's recap... GIVE HER GREEN!!!!

                    But damn, this is a great recap! You've summed up so many great points we've all seen, like the potential Elizabeth connection in the unnamed medic/lover, and some details that I never really noticed before, like the change in his clothing (from rumpled and dirty to clean and mostly-pressed) when he turns in his badge and is about to leave for good. Awesome stuff.

                    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                    I think this is also the spot where it would be good to stop and take a better look at John, as a character. One of the reasons why I like “Vegas”, and why it makes me both gleeful and sad, is the fact that this is the first, and probably only true Shepisode we ever got. This AU John got more character development in 40 – something minutes than our regular John got in five years. Seeing everything RCC and JF did with John in this single episode – portrayed him as a dark, sad, morally ambiguous character who does wrong things for both wrong and right reasons – that makes me sad, because it reminds me of the wasted potential that our John turned to be. In a single episode we are treated to more John than we ever were, and presented with really excellent acting by Joe F, who shows more than he tells. Thumbs up for really amazing and breathtaking facial acting we always knew he could pull off.
                    And a big, big thumbs down to TPTW for it taking FIVE YEARS to get this awesomely kick-ass of an episode for Sheppard. The big damn hero, the star of the show. Five years. How disgraceful!

                    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                    Let me say something about Aus in general. It has been said on numerous times that “Vegas” and characterizations in “Vegas” aren’t really relevant for the regular SGA characters. I can’t agree with that, and the reason is simple. For AU to really work, you have to make characters true to themselves. You’re dealing with same people in slightly or vastly different circumstances and playing with what if’s – what if y happened instead of x, how this character would behave, what he or she would be like? Now, if you turn the characters into something they’re not, the whole AU concept is blown out of the water. Characterization has to be impeccable. As far as I’m concerned, RCC does a masterful job at that. Not only does he give us a unique, never before seen view of Sheppard, he gives us Rodney we’re used to seeing…. only superior, polished, and perhaps much cooler version of Rodney.
                    Exactly! AUs, when done right, as Vegas was, are a fantastic way to get a very good look at an aspect of a character that audiences might not see in the main universe. In the case of Shep!Prime vs. Vegas!Shep, we've seen strong hints of the darkness in Shep!Prime up to this point, but it's in Vegas!Shep that we see him gone fully over the edge.

                    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                    In AU pretty much anything is possible – good guys can be bed guys, winners can turn losers – Detective John Sheppard is a pretty fair example of that. RCC does a great job of not revealing the identity of “the nurse” that was mentioned. Later we do find out the nurse is “her”, a woman, which blows the arguments of people who point to this convo between Rodney and John as a proof that John is gay, out of the water.

                    There are people who say that Elizabeth Weir being the nurse in question doesn’t seem logical (however, let me add, not impossible!). It’s a fair argument, I guess; but what’s perhaps even more important than nurse’s identity is the pattern that’s clearly established when John’s history in Afghanistan was revealed.

                    One thing that pretty much destroyed this John was losing someone he really cared for. Not only that, he cared for this nurse enough to (pretty recklessly) risk lives of eight other people to save her. After his rescue attempt failed in the worst possible way, he cheated on the justice system, avoided jail time and disappeared, instead of honorably facing the responsibility for what he’d done.

                    http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x.../bscap0458.jpg

                    http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x.../bscap0459.jpg

                    After Rodney had chewed him out and we learned about the nurse, John sits down and takes the chewing gum he's been offered. It's a tiny, tiny moment, but I love it. To me, he looks like the poorest guy on Earth, someone completely disappointed and tired with the life he's living.

                    I said earlier that AU’s are basically about playing with what if’s. Bearing the cross of loss of somebody John cared for deeply isn’t what makes this John different from our regular John. That is, in fact, something they share. Even the way they react to loss and the way they deal with it is strikingly similar. One can’t really deny that our John, his mostly sad expressions and dark looks don’t resemble the way this John looks. If you want me to go even further, I’d say that ever since The Lifeline our regular John doesn’t look as shiny and polished he used to. He gained lots of scruff to his looks and you gotta wonder is this mild self neglect due to the way he feels.

                    However, what makes two John’s different is Atlantis, and the duties and responsibilities that come with the city. And this is why “Vegas” is particularly important for John/Elizabeth and what Elizabeth meant to John and the way she affected and changed his life.

                    John joined Atlantis expedition for one single reason – because Elizabeth Weir wanted it to happen. Period. Nobody else wanted him, despite his superior ATA gene. When it comes to giving John Sheppard that one chance which changed his life for the better, the key role belongs to Elizabeth Weir. Elizabeth is also the person who was crucial to John’s staying in the position of Atlantis military commander (and probably his staying in the city). She is the one who assured he got promoted. Hadn’t she put up her word for him, he’d be long gone, and that is something every fan who claims Elizabeth never did anything of importance should take into account.

                    “Vegas” John is a person who didn’t have all that. He is the wasted potential of what could have been (much like SGA itself!) as a result of a chance he was never given (and an influence that changed our John so thoroughly). I know some people might question it, but Elizabeth’s influence on John Sheppard goes deeper than just getting him a ticket for Pegasus galaxy. If you think back of season 1, and compare S1 John to S3 John, I believe you will agree with me – John has changed, became more responsible and less hot headed, and indeed he had a fine teacher. It wasn’t McKay or Teyla, it was Elizabeth. Even if you question my statement, it still can’t be disputed that John interacted with Elizabeth constantly, that they’ve made lot of mutual decisions and discussed their choices and options. Saying that he didn’t learn anything from her just doesn’t seem true. Note that “Vegas” John didn’t have that either.

                    http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x.../bscap0462.jpg

                    This is why I think that “Vegas” John is, in a sense, John bared to the very bone. He is the guy our John from “The Rising” could have turned into, but didn’t.
                    Word, word to the wordy word! This is what makes Vegas a Sparky episode in our eyes. It's all about the similarities between Shep!Prime and Vegas!Shep, and the parallels in their stories that created those similarities. And the single most obvious commonality between the two is Elizabeth, or at least in Vegas!Shep's case, someone very much like Elizabeth who could have had the same influence on his life that Elizabeth!Prime had on Shep!Prime's life... that is, if that medic had lived.

                    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                    Also, this is the single true Shepisode we ever had, where John Sheppard is the lead without any doubt (despite McKay having more lines than him). Also, I've mentioned dozen of times, this is where we see Joe Flanigan giving us his very best acting, turning John Sheppard inside out and helping us all see what John is really about.
                    Joe's performance was Emmy-worthy. He won't get one, of course, but he ought to.

                    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                    Finally, even though Elizabeth wasn't mentioned here, everything about John, from his scruffy, neglected outlook, to his flaws of character scream lack of Elizabeth Weir's influence in his life. If that's not a true confirmation of Sparky, or at least the strength and importance of John - Elizabeth bond, then I don't know what it is.
                    Damn straight. Even in an AU where we never see Elizabeth, Sparky is still there!

                    Have fun at the concert, Anuna! *waves*
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Anuna: Excellent! I never made the link between this episode and Vegas (because for me, the nurse can't be Elizabeth...don't beat me.) I just saw that this AU John looks like our John during season 4 adn 5. A broken John because he lost something very important. Now I lade the link with Sparky. I have to re-watch this episode. I love the way John acts in it. Joe is a really great actor. It's a shame that TPTB didn't see it and gave him something more important to do during the show (not just one episode per year). I love the fact that AU John die at the end. I know that a lot of fans didn't like it.
                      An excellent episode with a sexy Joe (sorry but I can't no mention this), a good story for John and a great recap made by you.
                      Now I will go to bed because my head is killing me. I have a horrible migraine.
                      Bye my Sparky friends.
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                        Green given!

                        Anuna, you're the greatest. I hope you know that. xD

                        Okay, I will admit right now that I didn't actually pay a whole lot of attention to "Vegas" while I first watched it. Your analysis really opened my eyes to what was really going on, not only explicitly, but how much John's character had really changed in comparison with Shep!Prime, especially with the absence of Elizabeth.

                        Looking forward to your recap of Remnants. AND HAVE FUN AT THE CONCERT!
                        rest easy now

                        sigpic

                        everything will be all right


                        // tumblr //

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                          Oh guys. I can't sleep. I think I'm going to commit murder. My neighbor is killing me. He does karaoke. He sings not well. I want to go in his house and beat him. I'm a little violent but I worked all the day. I have just this night to try to sleep and I can't. It's almost 5pm. I'm so pissed.
                          I think I will read a sparky fic to try to relax myself.
                          I'm so tired and my headache is still here.
                          Is it serious of I kill my neighbor?lol
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                          Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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                            Anuna, that was an absolutely awesome recap! For an absolutely awesome episode. I don't know what I can add that hasn't already been said.
                            But I will say this (and apologies for the little uninteresting history lesson): I didn't see Vegas the first time it aired. I saw it the week after, when I went to a friend's house that Friday to watch the SGA marathon they had been playing as a lead up to the series finale. And out of all the episodes I watched that afternoon, Vegas was unquestionably the best. I hadn't heard much about it, but as I started watching it, I just got this astonished look on my face and was like 'wow, this is really good!', a reaction which pretty much none of the previous eps had gotten. And since I hadn't heard anything about it, nearly the whole time I was wondering excitedly 'what is going on here?'. And then the second time the medic was mentioned my mind automatically jumped to Elizabeth, even though I will readily admit the chances of it actually being her are slim. I still like to think it was her.

                            Sorry I haven't been around much lately (and Eri, your recap of Submersion was great too!), but I was so wrapped up in finishing 'Light in the Dark' that I didn't take the time to do much more than lurk. (and by the way the last chapter is now posted on Command Dynamics as well as ff.net for anyone who is interested ) I intend at some point to make a trailer, just for kicks.
                            sigpic
                            Lovely Sparkiness! ~*~ My: Fanfics - Vids ~*~

                            Comment


                              Goodness, a lot has happened since I've been away. Here's a blast from the past (I have just started to watch s5)

                              Sparky

                              Spoiler:
                              [ATTACH]8740[/ATTACH]
                              Even the Ga'oald suck at eyesex

                              [ATTACH]8741[/ATTACH]
                              EW: Look Carson, I'm going. He's been in there for months, it must be torture for him. It's only been a few hours out here, but I'm horny already!!


                              General s5

                              Spoiler:
                              [ATTACH]8736[/ATTACH]
                              J: I'm just not that into you
                              R: Why?
                              J: Honestly? It's the hair. Did you do something different from last year?


                              [ATTACH]8737[/ATTACH]
                              T (to Sheppard): Do as I ask or you can watch me eat (Richard)
                              use your imagination...

                              [ATTACH]8738[/ATTACH]
                              T: I like to cuddle afterwards
                              W: How comforting

                              [ATTACH]8739[/ATTACH]
                              CB: She's alive, but that stuff is growing out of her at an increasing rate. She has minimal brain function
                              RW: So no change then?


                              Now to do some catch up...
                              Last edited by gateraid; 29 November 2009, 02:50 PM.
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                                Re-hi!
                                I just saw the vid of Joe in warehouse13. I laughed. Not because of Joe. He's great even if he's not his best perfomance (it's normal because he has a small role). I would love to see him play a bad guy. But the show is...let me think to find a way to say this nicely....the show is sucked, crap...lol
                                Pete is a horrible character but it's not the topic so I will stop here.
                                I will try to go to sleep even if my neighbor still singing like a crap too (french expression. I don't know if you say this like that "sing like a crap").lol
                                I need to sleep. I have to wake up in 4 hours because even if it's sunday, I have to work.*sigh*
                                I say unnecessary things. I told my life.lol Sorry for that.lol
                                Bye again.
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                                Sig made by nephty and avi by Kris....THANK YOU!

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