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**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 10:34 AM

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Friday!

Vixen in Violet, my LJ is here.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Plus, everything surrounding the writing out of Elizabeth (attitudes of both producers and fans) left a sour taste in my mouth.

I'm still VERY bitter over that, myself. And I think my feelings are as bad as they are because early on, I really tried to give the producers the benefit of the doubt, hoping that they did have a real plan in mind for Elizabeth, that the move to recurring was a way to shift the character around on the playing field without eliminating her entirely and that we'd be seeing an awesome, clever way to bring her back into the story. Then I found out how they really are and that clever storylines like I'd been hoping for can only be done by the likes of J. Michael Straczynski, Ron Moore, and, of course, fanfic writers.

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

The only gripe I had with it was that amidst all of Teyla's anger I wish (as I generally did during Season 4 episodes) that Elizabeth's loss had somehow come up. The lack of general 'feeling' about her loss irritated me. In hindsight I think you can see how characters changed (John in particular) but on an episode-to-episode basis, it really bothered me that you didn't feel or see them grieving and then healing. They should have for a friend--and not just Elizabeth, but Carson, too.

And especially with the way the Replicators kept popping up through the first half of S4, it would've made sense for Elizabeth and her fate to come up in conversation more. But noooo...

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Oh yes. Well, I remember when we were hearing the news about Season 4, and Elizabeth fans like me were just sitting back with sinking stomachs about everything coming up, all I could think is "I just wish they'd do something to remember her". And all the Season 5 discussion about how Weir could return, which went from people speculating 6 episodes to down to 1 to it being Torri would not be back and how badly I felt about all of that (not so much Torri, but the idea of Weir being sandwiched into 1 episode).

Watching then, on an episode by episode basis, everything was just bitter. I hated every lack of mention, and hold a special place in my heart for things like Joe's insistence John mention Weir in "Reunion" and the foresight of whatever writer had Ronon champion Weir in front of Carter. Or Joe's reaction in "Miller's Crossing" when Ronon mentions Elizabeth.

However...after "Ghost in the Machine"--and then re-examining, in hindsight, the entirety of Atlantis as a whole, particularly how Joe Flanigan played Sheppard in S4 & 5--I think a number of fans sort of stepped back, observed the full picture, and more of the Weir/Sheppard connection began to pop out at them. Not so much 'love' but definitely the bond. After his reactions in Adrift, Lifeline and GITM, when you go back to stuff like TRW, the scenes between J&E certainly look a little different from the first time around. Everything with Elizabeth looks a little different when you don't have her for two seasons.

I do think John's personality changes long-term, which is why I think the non-shippers eventually noticed. And what also stood out were the episodes when Weir returned, and people kinda got that 'hmm...I sorta miss her dynamic in the show' vibe. Even from people who felt Weir was nothing more than a figurehead, it's the little things in S1-3 that people being to appreciate. Maybe a bit of that old adage of not seeing the forest for the trees. After the darkness of 4&5, when you go back and you watch S1 episodes like "The Gift" you suddenly see startling things you never noticed before--like how strong Teyla was, how Weir was commanding and how Sheppard bounced on his toes at times with cheeky smiles. And how things were just as 'dark', just in a different way. And suddenly, that forest starts to look a lot clearer big-picture wise.

Funnily enough, what makes me think that is how much you and a few others discussed the arguments over 'who was the medic' in Vegas. When I heard there was an argument, I wondered why people were debating that at all. It wasn't a true 'Sparky' argument because Elizabeth is never mentioned and has been gone two years, so it's not like debating John's role in "TRW." And yet there were still arguments over this nameless, faceless figure, because I think it crossed a lot of people's minds that it could be her, not just Sparkies. The Sparky ship itself jumped on it because of Elizabeth's death. Had we not had the scenes in Adrift, LL & GITM, I don't think Sparkies make that argument. And what's more, the fact that it got debated at all was surprising. Arguing it means the possibility exists, which is a huge step from, say, trying to argue what John was really feeling when he agreed to play Thalen The Long Goodbye.

I don't think people would have considered something like that had we not had the whole hindsight thing by the time we reached Vegas. At that point, Sparky shippers could forward that argument and others would have to think about it and agree or disagree.

Not to mention that we still add people who either agree that, in hindsight, the bond was there or they become new shippers even after S4 & 5 and the loss of Elizabeth.

All together, it's sort of an amazing thing.

I felt badly for Torri as well. I mean, she really wanted to come back and give the fans a good ending for Weir, but all the producers offered her was one measly little episode? With some vague handwaving at a potential storyline that wasn't even guaranteed to happen? That lack of commitment from the producers must've been such a terrible disappointment to her.

Eri, I think you and SR are right on the money with what you've described about getting a much clearer picture of Elizabeth and John, both together and apart, in the context of the entire series as a whole. Individually, all those little moments that Joe played so well with just a look, the banter that Torri and Joe gave such a flirty flair to, don't seem like much. But stitch them together, and you see the beautifully patterned quilt for the work of art that it is.

Sparky is here to stay, and every person who joins us, here or on LJ, shows just how much people recognize Sparky and what they brought to Atlantis.

I've said it before, it's in my sig, and I'll say it again: Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. There's just no stopping us.

Originally posted by Vixen in Violet View Post

Oh, also, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention when watching Vegas, but whenabouts was this mysterious medic mentioned in the episode? I feel like such a bad Sparky- although the thought of Lizzie being alive in that episode did occur to me.

The medic is mentioned a couple of times, first when McKay is talking to Sheppard in the "interrogation room" at Area 51, and then later when Sheppard is about to leave. It's the second scene in which McKay says that Sheppard was involved with the medic. Poor John.

**KrisRussel** · 07 August 2009, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Yah, here it is:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....ostcount=13196

Thank you!!!

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

I'm at the MGM site now checking out all of them and there are some that are great! I don't have time to link them, but in the Behind the Scenes of "The Game" are a couple of Joe skateboarding on the lot while talking on the phone, and the "Echoes" behind the scenes features Jason making a few weird poses behind Rachel during one of the meditation scenes. Hysterical.

There's also some funny posey shots of Jason and David Hewlett Behind the scenes.

Wish I had the time to look at them all

Is there like a shortcut to download the hi-res versions with a downloadmanager?

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Oh yes. Well, I remember when we were hearing the news about Season 4, and Elizabeth fans like me were just sitting back with sinking stomachs about everything coming up, all I could think is "I just wish they'd do something to remember her". And all the Season 5 discussion about how Weir could return, which went from people speculating 6 episodes to down to 1 to it being Torri would not be back and how badly I felt about all of that (not so much Torri, but the idea of Weir being sandwiched into 1 episode).

Watching then, on an episode by episode basis, everything was just bitter. I hated every lack of mention, and hold a special place in my heart for things like Joe's insistence John mention Weir in "Reunion" and the foresight of whatever writer had Ronon champion Weir in front of Carter. Or Joe's reaction in "Miller's Crossing" when Ronon mentions Elizabeth.

However...after "Ghost in the Machine"--and then re-examining, in hindsight, the entirety of Atlantis as a whole, particularly how Joe Flanigan played Sheppard in S4 & 5--I think a number of fans sort of stepped back, observed the full picture, and more of the Weir/Sheppard connection began to pop out at them. Not so much 'love' but definitely the bond. After his reactions in Adrift, Lifeline and GITM, when you go back to stuff like TRW, the scenes between J&E certainly look a little different from the first time around. Everything with Elizabeth looks a little different when you don't have her for two seasons.

I do think John's personality changes long-term, which is why I think the non-shippers eventually noticed. And what also stood out were the episodes when Weir returned, and people kinda got that 'hmm...I sorta miss her dynamic in the show' vibe. Even from people who felt Weir was nothing more than a figurehead, it's the little things in S1-3 that people being to appreciate. Maybe a bit of that old adage of not seeing the forest for the trees. After the darkness of 4&5, when you go back and you watch S1 episodes like "The Gift" you suddenly see startling things you never noticed before--like how strong Teyla was, how Weir was commanding and how Sheppard bounced on his toes at times with cheeky smiles. And how things were just as 'dark', just in a different way. And suddenly, that forest starts to look a lot clearer big-picture wise.

Funnily enough, what makes me think that is how much you and a few others discussed the arguments over 'who was the medic' in Vegas. When I heard there was an argument, I wondered why people were debating that at all. It wasn't a true 'Sparky' argument because Elizabeth is never mentioned and has been gone two years, so it's not like debating John's role in "TRW." And yet there were still arguments over this nameless, faceless figure, because I think it crossed a lot of people's minds that it could be her, not just Sparkies. The Sparky ship itself jumped on it because of Elizabeth's death. Had we not had the scenes in Adrift, LL & GITM, I don't think Sparkies make that argument. And what's more, the fact that it got debated at all was surprising. Arguing it means the possibility exists, which is a huge step from, say, trying to argue what John was really feeling when he agreed to play Thalen The Long Goodbye.

I don't think people would have considered something like that had we not had the whole hindsight thing by the time we reached Vegas. At that point, Sparky shippers could forward that argument and others would have to think about it and agree or disagree.

Not to mention that we still add people who either agree that, in hindsight, the bond was there or they become new shippers even after S4 & 5 and the loss of Elizabeth.

All together, it's sort of an amazing thing.

*joins in the standing and clapping*
You are so absolutely right!
I'm also noticing the difference in some of my anti-Sparky friends... finally

It feels good to know you've been right all along... and it feels very good to know you believe in a ship that's still going strong and still growing in fanbase...
So amazing considering half of the ship is floating frozen in space...

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post

*joins in the standing and clapping*
You are so absolutely right!
I'm also noticing the difference in some of my anti-Sparky friends... finally

It feels good to know you've been right all along... and it feels very good to know you believe in a ship that's still going strong and still growing in fanbase...
So amazing considering half of the ship is floating frozen in space...

Sparky: Bringing a whole new meaning to the word "cool."

**KrisRussel** · 07 August 2009, 10:57 AM

So... the military webshop I visit regularly just released new history flags and this one reminded me of Sparky

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 11:06 AM

That flag so needs to be made in RED.

**Eri13** · 07 August 2009, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Sparky: Bringing a whole new meaning to the word "cool."

Oh now that's just wrong.

Spoiler:

Do we still have to spoiler since you all had an open S5 discussion? What's the rule now?

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Oh now that's just wrong.

Spoiler:

*snickers* Heh! The way I see it, if we can keep a good sense of humor about it, we're doing better than those who are out to get us.

Like the old saying goes, "He who laughs last, laughs best."

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Do we still have to spoiler since you all had an open S5 discussion? What's the rule now?

Well, I think since the major international markets have seen S5 by this point, we don't need to use spoiler space any more. I could be wrong about that, though.

**Southern Red** · 07 August 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Vixen in Violet View Post

OMG, it's like a plague for me, but a very, VERY good plague.

Aw, I forgot that you live in Belgium. Oh well.

Wonderful!! I love the behind the scenes pics too.

You guys are so right. And re-watching the old episodes has really made it clear that they had an ever-growing bond, one that can't be denied.

Yeah, my response is not as thoughtful as both of yours, but I am basically agreeing with you.

Oh, also, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention when watching Vegas, but whenabouts was this mysterious medic mentioned in the episode? I feel like such a bad Sparky- although the thought of Lizzie being alive in that episode did occur to me.

Specifically here's the quote from Vegas.

Spoiler:

Looking at it in print gave me a new idea. John says "yeah, you know everything." But does he? Is there more about the medic Rodney doesn't know? Food for thought or plot bunny? You decide.

And I have to laugh because I ran across a review by a blogger of Vegas that states without a doubt that John is gay. I know there was some discussion of that and it was discounted but this blogger is not a part of fandom and doesn't seem to have any insider info. He says Vegas!Shep is misogynistic because he disses the reporter and blows off the nurse and is rude to Keller. OMG! *laughs at the stupidity* But the kicker is that the medic was a man because McKay says "You knew him". Seriously. Did this guy even watch? Maybe he needs to clean out his ears. He ranted on about it for awhile digging himself deeper. See what I mean about perception. I think some of those who deny sparky are just as clueless. IMHO.

Somebody needs to send that guy a copy of the transcript. Then he would have to just say this

**KrisRussel** · 07 August 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

That flag so needs to be made in RED.

Something like this?

Sorry for the poor quality

Originally posted by Eri13 View Post

Oh now that's just wrong.

Spoiler:

Do we still have to spoiler since you all had an open S5 discussion? What's the rule now?

*sniffle* so sad

And I think everyone, even the people who haven't seen it yet, know what happens in s5... I don't think spoiler space is necessary anymore...

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Specifically here's the quote from Vegas.

Spoiler:

Looking at it in print gave me a new idea. John says "yeah, you know everything." But does he? Is there more about the medic Rodney doesn't know? Food for thought or plot bunny? You decide.

I think that's one of Anuna's plot bunnies, heheheh...

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

And I have to laugh because I ran across a review by a blogger of Vegas that states without a doubt that John is gay. I know there was some discussion of that and it was discounted but this blogger is not a part of fandom and doesn't seem to have any insider info. He says Vegas!Shep is misogynistic because he disses the reporter and blows off the nurse and is rude to Keller. OMG! *laughs at the stupidity* But the kicker is that the medic was a man because McKay says "You knew him". Seriously. Did this guy even watch? Maybe he needs to clean out his ears. He ranted on about it for awhile digging himself deeper. See what I mean about perception. I think some of those who deny sparky are just as clueless. IMHO.

Somebody needs to send that guy a copy of the transcript. Then he would have to just say this

OMFG! That's just appalling! *headdesk*

Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post

Something like this?

Sorry for the poor quality

Works for me!

**Anuna** · 07 August 2009, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Specifically here's the quote from Vegas.

Spoiler:

Looking at it in print gave me a new idea. John says "yeah, you know everything." But does he? Is there more about the medic Rodney doesn't know? Food for thought or plot bunny? You decide.

And I have to laugh because I ran across a review by a blogger of Vegas that states without a doubt that John is gay. I know there was some discussion of that and it was discounted but this blogger is not a part of fandom and doesn't seem to have any insider info. He says Vegas!Shep is misogynistic because he disses the reporter and blows off the nurse and is rude to Keller. OMG! *laughs at the stupidity* But the kicker is that the medic was a man because McKay says "You knew him". Seriously. Did this guy even watch? Maybe he needs to clean out his ears. He ranted on about it for awhile digging himself deeper. See what I mean about perception. I think some of those who deny sparky are just as clueless. IMHO.

Somebody needs to send that guy a copy of the transcript. Then he would have to just say this

That's one of the 'Nuna's plot bunnies indeed.

Gosh, I didn't know gay men are also misogynistic and rude toward women. Maybe if that guy did watch he'd notice Vegas!John was just plainly rude. And needs his ears cleaned. *headdesk*

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 01:01 PM

WTF?!?!?

Okay, yesterday SyFy ran The Gift, right? Today they've completely skipped over The Siege, Parts 1-3 and gone straight to The Intruder!

Granted, I'm not complaining about getting to see the mess hall eyesex of squee, but I really wanted to see The Hug.

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 01:11 PM

Intruder flashback: Lizzie lays the smackdown on Landry and Caldwell to get John promoted! Best. Scene. EVER!!!!

**Scary Kitty** · 07 August 2009, 01:23 PM

Ewwww, Simon!

And he's all lying through his teeth to Lizzie about going to Atlantis when he's already seeing someone else. Grr!

**Eri13** · 07 August 2009, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

WTF?!?!?

Okay, yesterday SyFy ran The Gift, right? Today they've completely skipped over The Siege, Parts 1-3 and gone straight to The Intruder!

Granted, I'm not complaining about getting to see the mess hall eyesex of squee, but I really wanted to see The Hug.

Sometimes they do this when the schedule runs up against a Friday and they don't want to split up 2 parters or Trilogies. Check next week to see if they run Siege straight through the first 3 days of the week.

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