Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Aaaah, Ascended glowy!sex! Stop that, AthTart! Only Lizzie is allowed to do that with John!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

anybody know whats up with gateworld lately? i mean first they said the link is broken now its back up whats up?

[Southern Red]

Good luck with looking busy. I always try to look busy when I'm doing SGA recaps.

SGA's greatest tragedy, IMHO, wasn't so much losing characters as losing control of their fan base. They could have angered one set of fans and been alright, but I think they sort of spiderwebbed out and angered a lot of people with stuff.

At least I'm not too angry about Sparky. I felt like it pushed through better than was intended. That's why I'm not as sad doing the Adrift, Lifeline, TMC and GITM recaps. As much as I dislike the principle of those episodes, they are high-watt sparky--so much so that non-shippers notice--and that gives me a little comfort.

Thanks for answering the questions, SR and SK! Loved your answers!

Glad to do it and glad so many others agreed with my conclusions.

There were comments on Facebook about the collapse of the SGA fandom also. I think the whole thing is wider than we realize and no matter what they say, it impacted on the ratings.

And I agree 100% that we have nothing to be bitter about. I just wish others could get over their sour grapes long enough to be a little bit gracious. But at least we know the hate is all one sided in relation to the characters.

[Erin87]

Sunday Discussion Questions:

1) Sunday was supposed to be a story about an off-day on Atlantis, but the subject turns grave. How would you have felt about the episode if it had not included the death of Carson?

I don't really know. We have no way of knowing what the episode would have been like had Carson not died, or what they would have come up with to fill the time. Odds are it wouldn't have turned out that great. I'm still not sure. I liked seeing everyone relaxing, but... (I know, a very insightful and well thought out answer )

2) In Teyla's flashback, give me your thoughts on:

a) why she works out in regular clothes here
b) her conversation with Doctor Houston about her 'crush'
c) why do you think they decided to have her be gravely injured?

a) No clue. Maybe they didn't want her to stand out as much and be so obviously not from Earth, or to make it so Dr. Houston wasn't overshadowed by the 'heylookatme' sparring costume. And, what is more likely, thinking of practical concerns it would have been a lot harder for the effects department to convincingly have that bloody shard of metal sticking out of her bare stomach as opposed to the black shirt.
b) looking back on it it definitely all points to Kanaan. Especially with Teyla having to explain to Dr. Houston that her culture worked differently. I think by now Teyla has a pretty decent understanding of Earth culture. If she was talking about one of the expedition members, then she wouldn't have had to point that out.
c) I think mostly to heighten the sense of danger and give credibility to their exploding tumor. Cause honestly, if you hadn't seen the damage the thing could do, what audience member would take something like that seriously?

3) In Elizabeth's flashback, give me your thoughts on

a) why Elizabeth is still working on the mandatory day off
b) why she is unable to say no to Bearded Mike
c) what did you think of her civvies?

a) She's the boss. It's what she does. And maybe she figured she could use the day to catch up on older paperwork and stuff since in theory with everyone on a day off there would be no new paperwork from that day. (Okay, I'm making this up as I go along. Can't ya tell? Let's stick with the first part. It's what she does.)
b) Well, for one thing she probably really didn't want to spend all day in her office, and this offered her an excuse to get out. And maybe she just wanted to go and feel like a girl for once. *shrug*
c) I thought she looked lovely. She should have worn green more often.

4) In John and Ronon's flashback

a) Why is Ronon always kicking John's ***?
b) Why do you think Ronon seems most comfortable discussing loss?
c) Why do you think the beer can crushing was included?

a) The same reason why Elizabeth was still in her office. It's what he does.
b) He's had to deal with it a lot more than most. His entire planet was wiped out, and death was pretty much his constant companion during his time as a Runner. He's probably realized that it's not healthy to bottle it all up, and has come to terms with it in a way different from the people from Earth.
c) I'm gonna have to go with the 'making them look stupid' answer on this one. No, probably to make them seem more "approachable". (that's likely. not.) Or maybe one of the people in power had always wanted to be able to crush a beer can on his forehead but never been able to and was living vicariously through the characters. Who knows? It was a bunch of guys that were in charge. That's your answer right there.

5) In Rodney's flashback

a) Was he right in chewing out Doctors Houston and Watson?
b) What did you think of his date with Katie Brown?

a) In hindsight: Absolutely! But even without hindsight, he's still right. Rodney knows better than anyone the hazards of pushing mysterious buttons when you have no clue what they do.
b) I thought the scene when they're eating lunch was very sweet, although Rodney's reasons for asking her out kind of spoiled, and her comments about how he's making an effort to spend time with her make him seem like a bit of a jerk. (major guilt!) He and Katie Brown were good together, and it really showed what kind of person she was to be that understanding of him, which is probably a rare find that he should have held on to.

6) In Carson's flashback

a) why was it necessary to give Carson a flashback at all?
b) as a medical doctor, was it Carson's responsibility to think only of the patient in front of him or the welfare of the people in the Tower as a whole?

a) To show how much of an integral part of life on Atlantis he was, and to make it that much more painful when they kill him.
b) Both. I think he should have tried his best to save the patient in front of him, but ultimately he should have put the lives of the majority of the expedition first.

7) I griped that the lockdown of the OR was a stupid plot device because Carson risked the safety of the people in the Tower, the Stargate itself and the jumper bay with his actions--while Elizabeth did nothing to stop him. How could Sunday have been written with the same end (the death of Carson) without sacrificing either Carson or Elizabeth's integrity?

That's a tough one. Once again I really don't know. Maybe Carson could have been arguing that he was determined to save the patient, but he sees reason and is persuaded by Elizabeth to have Watson moved to a less key part of the city, while still refusing to leave him, and he operates on him there, with the same results. Watson is saved thanks to his bravery, and Carson dies.

8) Did you feel Carson was given an appropriate memorial? What did you think of the reactions of all the characters?

I think he was. The memorial was very appropriate and moving. He got the send off he deserved, bag pipes and all. I think all the reactions were spot on, with just the right amount of grief from all of them. All the acting was marvelous in that scene.

9) Did you approve of the ending scene between Carson and Rodney? Should it have been in there?

I approved of it. It was very touching, and extremely sad. And it let Carson leave on a more hopeful note, which fits in with the type of man that he was.

10) Why do you think TPTB felt it was necessary to kill off Carson? As a viewer, do you appreciate the need for a 'darker story' or do you prefer to keep things happy and unrealistic so all the characters stay the same?

I don't know why they chose Carson in particular. It doesn't make much sense, considering he became a regular character through his popularity alone. Their motives escape me.
As far as my thoughts as a viewer: I understand that things can't be all happy all the time or it would get boring. I get that in reality not everybody stays alive at the end of the day, and shows have to reflect that to stay believable. In certain situations deaths of main characters is acceptable (when it actually contributes to character development and is not brushed over like it never happened!). But if I want to be depressed I'll watch the news.

SPARKY BONUS QUESTIONS!!

A) On her date with Bearded Mike, Elizabeth mentions she prefers "When Harry Met Sally" over "Annie Hall". Bearded Mike argues that WHMS is the definitive argument for women believing men and women can't be friends and that they will inevitably fall for each other. Given EVERYTHING that's occurred with John, who we'd definitely consider a friend (and a close one at that) what is implied, directly or indirectly, by their conversation?

B) Why do you think John was not privy to Elizabeth's 'date' like everyone else? It would have given the writers a chance to 'disclaim' jealousy...

a) Well, if we take it as she says it, then that implies that she has feelings for John. (haha! Love that implication. yay for a plan that backfired!) But most likely she just said it to get Mike to back off.
b) *shrug* Time constraints maybe. They were too lazy to work it in (their storyline with John was already full). Again, who can tell? I'm tending to agree with SK that they probably just didn't think about it.

[Probie]

Today I did a drawing at my work. It's august so there is not much work to do.lol This is my first attempt to do a Sparky drawing. Be nice. I hate my John. I have to work on him.

Spoiler:

And I'm OT but KR wanted to see this. My drawing for my little niece.

Spoiler:

[Southern Red]

Today I did a drawing at my work. It's august so there is not much work to do.lol This is my first attempt to do a Sparky drawing. Be nice. I hate my John. I have to work on him.

Spoiler:

http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.php?albumid=1488&pictureid=16674

And I'm OT but KR wanted to see this. My drawing for my little niece.

Spoiler:

http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.php?albumid=1488&pictureid=16675

Very nice. I like scruffy John. And the Simpsons are perfect.

[KrisRussel]

*headdesk*
We have digital tv (I think you guys call it tivo) and I finally have sci-fi (yes, it's still spelled this way, prolly cause it's the Dutch affiliate) now... I haven't been away from the tv since then... didn't even turn on my computer until now
I knew this would happen once I got sci-fi... I just didn't know it would be so bad
Now I'm never gonna get my fics finished *headdesk*
Oh, is there a post-a-thon tonight?
It's just that Eureka is on during post-a-thon time

Alright, on to the questions... not much for me to say though as I agree with what most others already said

Sunday Discussion Questions:

1) Sunday was supposed to be a story about an off-day on Atlantis, but the subject turns grave. How would you have felt about the episode if it had not included the death of Carson?

As I said before, I loved the prospect of them wanting to show a day off in Atlantis.
But the day off itself was a disappointment because of the OOC behavior of the various characters.
So, yes, I would have loved to see a day off, but not the one they showed us.

2) In Teyla's flashback, give me your thoughts on:

a) why she works out in regular clothes here
b) her conversation with Doctor Houston about her 'crush'
c) why do you think they decided to have her be gravely injured?

a) it's probably as Erin said: the easy way to show the later wound. The naked belly would have prolly cost 50 times more to make that into a believable wound.
b) Made me think of an Athosian too, and it sorta pissed me off when I later read that it was supposed to be sheyla as I thought: 'sheyla? why would they suddenly write sheyla? Where did that come from?'
c) Agree with the others: to get her out of the way and to make the situation look grave and dangerous.

3) In Elizabeth's flashback, give me your thoughts on

a) why Elizabeth is still working on the mandatory day off
b) why she is unable to say no to Bearded Mike
c) what did you think of her civvies?

a) it's Elizabeth... she never stops working...
b) I again agree with the others: to make her look stupid
c) loved them and it's a shame we didn't see her more in civvies like that.

4) In John and Ronon's flashback

a) Why is Ronon always kicking John's ***?
b) Why do you think Ronon seems most comfortable discussing loss?
c) Why do you think the beer can crushing was included?

a) cause Ronon has been a runner for seven years and is physically stronger than John and better trained...
b) because he has known loss... he lost his love, his family, his friends, his home, his planet, his everything. I think that at that time he's the only one in Atlantis who really knows what loss it.
c) cause they wanted to make Ronon and John look stupid? I don't know... I never got it and it makes me *headdesk* each time I see it.

5) In Rodney's flashback

a) Was he right in chewing out Doctors Houston and Watson?
b) What did you think of his date with Katie Brown?

a) yes. He certainly was. They should have been smarter than they acted. The scientists in Atlantis are supposed to be the brightest of the brightest and then they pull a stunt like that? They acted absolutely stupid.
b) I loved it and it showed how perfect Katie was for him. What I didn't like is that he used the date to get out of fishing with Carson.

6) In Carson's flashback

a) why was it necessary to give Carson a flashback at all?
b) as a medical doctor, was it Carson's responsibility to think only of the patient in front of him or the welfare of the people in the Tower as a whole?

a) Carson was an important part of the team and it showed how his friends let him down in his final hours. On one side it was good to see his interaction with the others and on the other side, it leaves you with a bitter taste, because almost everyone treats him like he's a burden with his whining about fishing.
b) as pointed out by others: both. But he shouldn't have been so stupidly stubborn about it. Everything and everyone that keeps the city and the expedition rolling could be damaged by the explosion. They made Carson look stupid in his final minutes and that's a real shame.

7) I griped that the lockdown of the OR was a stupid plot device because Carson risked the safety of the people in the Tower, the Stargate itself and the jumper bay with his actions--while Elizabeth did nothing to stop him. How could Sunday have been written with the same end (the death of Carson) without sacrificing either Carson or Elizabeth's integrity?

Elizabeth should have initially been there to talk to Carson and Carson should have allowed to let his patient be moved to a less vulnerable part of the city.

8) Did you feel Carson was given an appropriate memorial? What did you think of the reactions of all the characters?

The memorial was one of the only decent scenes in the entire ep. Bagpipes were a perfect touch, angst and whoobie faces were all in place, Elizabeth's speech was very touching. John looking worried about Liz what was also a nice touch. The palbearers were a nice detail too.
And yes, I agree with the others on Teyla's outfit and incredible fast healing: silly and stupid.

9) Did you approve of the ending scene between Carson and Rodney? Should it have been in there?

Yes, it did feel right. But the others are right when saying Rodney got off way too easy.

10) Why do you think TPTB felt it was necessary to kill off Carson? As a viewer, do you appreciate the need for a 'darker story' or do you prefer to keep things happy and unrealistic so all the characters stay the same?

It was their way to try and raise the ratings by introducing a new babe in the form of Keller. It backfired as it always does when you kill off a major character like that.
Life of course isn't always sunshine and roses, but you can write a dark story without killing off a major character.

SPARKY BONUS QUESTIONS!!

A) On her date with Bearded Mike, Elizabeth mentions she prefers "When Harry Met Sally" over "Annie Hall". Bearded Mike argues that WHMS is the definitive argument for women believing men and women can't be friends and that they will inevitably fall for each other. Given EVERYTHING that's occurred with John, who we'd definitely consider a friend (and a close one at that) what is implied, directly or indirectly, by their conversation?

B) Why do you think John was not privy to Elizabeth's 'date' like everyone else? It would have given the writers a chance to 'disclaim' jealousy...

a) *grins* Oh, they really unwillingly pointed out that Sparky is inevitable *grins*
b) they forgot or they ran out of time... I'm going with the first.

Today I did a drawing at my work. It's august so there is not much work to do.lol This is my first attempt to do a Sparky drawing. Be nice. I hate my John. I have to work on him.

Spoiler:

And I'm OT but KR wanted to see this. My drawing for my little niece.

Spoiler:

Great job!! I love the Simpsons one
And the Sparky one is done nicely too
I actually barely ever color my drawings...
If you want to see one of my Simpsons drawings, you can find it here.

[Probie]

Very nice. I like scruffy John. And the Simpsons are perfect.

Thanks. You are very nice because I hate my Sheppard if I can call him Sheppard.lol

Great job!! I love the Simpsons one
And the Sparky one is done nicely too
I actually barely ever color my drawings...
If you want to see one of my Simpsons drawings, you can find it here.

Thanks. I never knew that you can draw. It's very good. I put never colors in my drawing but it was for my niece so I take some time for her.
I try to do a Sheppard drawing. I think I can draw Weir now (I hope she looks like her of course) but Sheppard is complicated. I have to practise.
Now I will go read "Casualties of war". It's very good for the moment. I like how John is written in it.

[Southern Red]

*headdesk*
We have digital tv (I think you guys call it tivo) and I finally have sci-fi (yes, it's still spelled this way, prolly cause it's the Dutch affiliate) now... I haven't been away from the tv since then... didn't even turn on my computer until now
I knew this would happen once I got sci-fi... I just didn't know it would be so bad
Now I'm never gonna get my fics finished *headdesk*
Oh, is there a post-a-thon tonight?
It's just that Eureka is on during post-a-thon time

Actually Tivo is a name brand of digital recorder. Digital TV is just what it says, not analog. Most cable companies here provide DVR's (digital video recorders) that make it possible to record directly from the TV and then if you have the proper DVD recorder you can make DVD's of your shows you want to save. Easy. We never watch anything live. I particularly like being able to program in whole series that it will record whenever they are on. You can just set it and forget it. We just changed companies and the new one has channels I never heard of plus over a dozen movie channels, a bunch of sports channels and on and on. So far I've not become any more addicted than I already am. Hubby has been recording old movies at a rapid pace now that the cable is hooked into his computer. LOL

[Probie]

1) Sunday was supposed to be a story about an off-day on Atlantis, but the subject turns grave. How would you have felt about the episode if it had not included the death of Carson?

it would have been useless. I'm not saying that Carson have to die. Just need something dramatic or the episode would be boring. Carson seriously injured but he survived would be enough. Not need to kill him.

2) In Teyla's flashback, give me your thoughts on:

a) why she works out in regular clothes here
b) her conversation with Doctor Houston about her 'crush'
c) why do you think they decided to have her be gravely injured?

a) I have to ask this question to my mom. She likes Teyla's clothes.lol I didn't pay attention to this.
b)I thought that he was an athosian too. I never thought about John.
c) It's the easy way to not use her. They did know what to do with her (as always *sigh*)

3) In Elizabeth's flashback, give me your thoughts on

a) why Elizabeth is still working on the mandatory day off
b) why she is unable to say no to Bearded Mike
c) what did you think of her civvies?

a) Like KR, it's Elizabeth. She can't stop working.
b) She didn't say "no" to Dr Carter because she wanted to take some good time for once. She wanted to "practise" before to be with John.lol Ok sorry for that.lol
c)She looks great or "lovely" like Carson said.
This reminds me this vid where Torri is talking about her clothes. link

4) In John and Ronon's flashback

a) Why is Ronon always kicking John's ***?
b) Why do you think Ronon seems most comfortable discussing loss?
c) Why do you think the beer can crushing was included?

a) Same answer as the other. He's a runner. He's stronger than John. I'm happy when Ronon is kicking John's *** because thanks to him we can see John's underwear.

5) In Rodney's flashback

a) Was he right in chewing out Doctors Houston and Watson?
b) What did you think of his date with Katie Brown?

I don't remember this part....I will just say that Katie is good for Rodney.

7) I griped that the lockdown of the OR was a stupid plot device because Carson risked the safety of the people in the Tower, the Stargate itself and the jumper bay with his actions--while Elizabeth did nothing to stop him. How could Sunday have been written with the same end (the death of Carson) without sacrificing either Carson or Elizabeth's integrity?

It's the only thing (and the death of Carson) that really bothered me. Elizabeth did nothing.

8) Did you feel Carson was given an appropriate memorial? What did you think of the reactions of all the characters?

I found this beautiful. All the characters are sad. This shows how much Carson was a good and important person for everyone. The speech of Elizabeth was great. The way John looked Elizabeth is wow. Carson is dead but he has a "goodbye scene" not like Ford or Elizabeth.

9) Did you approve of the ending scene between Carson and Rodney? Should it have been in there?

It was nice. This shows that Rodney and Carson were close but I prefer the scene between Rodney and Ronon.

10) Why do you think TPTB felt it was necessary to kill off Carson? As a viewer, do you appreciate the need for a 'darker story' or do you prefer to keep things happy and unrealistic so all the characters stay the same?

It's still a mistery for me. It's a doctor so maybe they thought it was funny. (Ah Janet...I miss you too). It's the beginning of bad decisions.

SPARKY BONUS QUESTIONS!!

A) On her date with Bearded Mike, Elizabeth mentions she prefers "When Harry Met Sally" over "Annie Hall". Bearded Mike argues that WHMS is the definitive argument for women believing men and women can't be friends and that they will inevitably fall for each other. Given EVERYTHING that's occurred with John, who we'd definitely consider a friend (and a close one at that) what is implied, directly or indirectly, by their conversation?

B) Why do you think John was not privy to Elizabeth's 'date' like everyone else? It would have given the writers a chance to 'disclaim' jealousy...

[/QUOTE]

a) Her subconscious is speaking. John is her closest friend. He's a male so....SPARKY
b)MG was focus trying to write Sheyla and killed Carson (and killed SGA family).

[KrisRussel]

Now I will go read "Casualties of war". It's very good for the moment. I like how John is written in it.

"Casualties of War" is very good. I think it's one of my favs.

Actually Tivo is a name brand of digital recorder. Digital TV is just what it says, not analog. Most cable companies here provide DVR's (digital video recorders) that make it possible to record directly from the TV and then if you have the proper DVD recorder you can make DVD's of your shows you want to save. Easy. We never watch anything live. I particularly like being able to program in whole series that it will record whenever they are on. You can just set it and forget it. We just changed companies and the new one has channels I never heard of plus over a dozen movie channels, a bunch of sports channels and on and on. So far I've not become any more addicted than I already am. Hubby has been recording old movies at a rapid pace now that the cable is hooked into his computer. LOL

Ah. Thank you for explaining that.
I'm actually only addicted to sci-fi right now
There was a catch-up on "Sanctuary" today and I think I watched the first five or six episodes. It's not a bad show and I love pointing out all the different SG actors Two-faced Chuck is just hilarious
Anyway... Eureka is on right now... so I'll see you guys later

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

Today I did a drawing at my work. It's august so there is not much work to do.lol This is my first attempt to do a Sparky drawing. Be nice. I hate my John. I have to work on him.
http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=16674

Oooh, that's lovely. Great job!

And I'm OT but KR wanted to see this. My drawing for my little niece.
http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=16675

The Simpsons! Jack O'Neill would be proud.

[Eri13]

Actually Tivo is a name brand of digital recorder. Digital TV is just what it says, not analog. Most cable companies here provide DVR's (digital video recorders) that make it possible to record directly from the TV and then if you have the proper DVD recorder you can make DVD's of your shows you want to save. Easy. We never watch anything live. I particularly like being able to program in whole series that it will record whenever they are on. You can just set it and forget it. We just changed companies and the new one has channels I never heard of plus over a dozen movie channels, a bunch of sports channels and on and on. So far I've not become any more addicted than I already am. Hubby has been recording old movies at a rapid pace now that the cable is hooked into his computer. LOL

I honestly cannot remember what life was like before I had my DVR. People actually had to watch shows when they came on (or tape them on the VCR) and they couldn't pause them?? WOW!!!

I so spoiled...

Sunday Discussion Questions:

1) Sunday was supposed to be a story about an off-day on Atlantis, but the subject turns grave. How would you have felt about the episode if it had not included the death of Carson?

I'm not sure. I think there were parts I would have liked, and parts I wouldn't have liked. When you're dealing with a show that has high drama in every episode, and not much character 'backstory' it sometimes gets dangerous to try do a backstory episode, just because sometimes you don't think about how things (like smashing beer cans on people's heads) can change the characters in the eyes of fans.

Let's go through the flashbacks one by one

2) In Teyla's flashback, give me your thoughts on:

a) why she works out in regular clothes here
b) her conversation with Doctor Houston about her 'crush'
c) why do you think they decided to have her be gravely injured?

a) I have NO idea. Other than this was a 'change-up' episode, so they decided to change up the way people did things? Or maybe Teyla believed Doctor Houston would feel more comfortable if she was in a Earth outfit?
b) It was fine. When I first watched it, I barely remember who I thought she was referring to--I didn't know enough of the show at that point in time. If I had, I probably would have thought Ronon or John first, just because I tend to think story development-wise rather than bigger picture-wise. Given that Teyla really had no other men in her life, they were the only two that story-wise made sense.
c) Because the Atlantis writers can't go for one episode without someone in critical condition. And if Gero was writing for J/T, then it gives John the chance to worry, so that makes sense too.

3) In Elizabeth's flashback, give me your thoughts on

a) why Elizabeth is still working on the mandatory day off
b) why she is unable to say no to Bearded Mike
c) what did you think of her civvies?

a) Because she's Elizabeth and she never NOT works. That's why John mentions he's glad Teyla's getting her out of the office. Everybody else knows that's the way she is.
b) Because he wouldn't shut up. No, seriously. Elizabeth can stop powerful leaders in their tracks, but she's sort of uncertain how to handle underlings when they don't treat her like 'the boss'. Mike was exactly like that, plus he had a charming sort of way about him. I didn't dislike Mike--but he wasn't John, and I don't think he was capable of understanding everything about Elizabeth he needed to. He could charm the socks off someone, but when the crisis come about, he wouldn't have been by her side--John would have. And actually, it might have been interesting if Dr. Branton had been there messing around with the dynamic. But our writers never would have gone there, too much UST on the other side.
c) Loved the civvies. And Torri looked gorgeous in this eppy.

4) In John and Ronon's flashback

a) Why is Ronon always kicking John's ***?
b) Why do you think Ronon seems most comfortable discussing loss?
c) Why do you think the beer can crushing was included?

a) Because John I don't think always takes sparring stuff seriously, and I mean that. Ronon and Teyla are both strong, but John doesn't get amped up for it--not like when he's on the job. While I think John would love to beat Ronon, I also think he knows Ronon has many more skills, so he's not going to be overly aggressive. That's why he's so disgruntled over Ronon's one-armed golf game being pretty good.
b) Because, as many people here have said, he's suffered through it. Even Teyla still has her people. Ronon watched all of his people die. We saw how emotional he was when he found out a few of his fellow Satedans were alive. And how hopeless he felt as a Runner. He's dealt with all of it and can still smile at times, so though he's brusque in his manner, underneath he's one of the most stable personalities on Atlantis, and can lend that stability to others when they need it.
c) Because TPTB are a bunch of wannabe frat boys and they think stuff like that is 'AWESOME!'. Same reason for the Teyla/Sora catfight in The Eye and Princess Airhead dropping trou in The Tower.

5) In Rodney's flashback

a) Was he right in chewing out Doctors Houston and Watson?
b) What did you think of his date with Katie Brown?

a) Oh yeah. But I liked how he actually had a point to all the insults he was hurling. Sometimes with Zelenka he just says mean things to be spiteful, but with these guys, he completely made sense.
b) I really thought it was cute. Sorry it was an excuse to leave Carson behind, but loved how Katie understood that and didn't judge him for it. And the level of comfort that Rodney developed through the lunch was really nice. I wish they'd kept Katie, though I can't say much on McKay/Keller because I didn't watch that season.

6) In Carson's flashback

a) why was it necessary to give Carson a flashback at all?
b) as a medical doctor, was it Carson's responsibility to think only of the patient in front of him or the welfare of the people in the Tower as a whole?

a) I think it was to show how he got to the OR and also to let us get slivers of others like Zelenka and Lorne. With our main characters we were only involved in their lives, but with Carson we saw about 4 or 5 people in additional to the dear doctor.
b) Hippocratic Oath, yes--but I still argue that he was being a bit ridiculous in not moving the patient.

And in linear time:

7) I griped that the lockdown of the OR was a stupid plot device because Carson risked the safety of the people in the Tower, the Stargate itself and the jumper bay with his actions--while Elizabeth did nothing to stop him. How could Sunday have been written with the same end (the death of Carson) without sacrificing either Carson or Elizabeth's integrity?

I think we hear Elizabeth say, right after John says 'I can't order you to stand down' 'But I can'. And she explains the danger, and Carson argues with her about saving the patient's life. And she says she understands but they have to think about the safety of the expedition as a whole, though she won't say 'don't operate' because Elizabeth wouldn't. As it looks like one of them is going to have to fold, John interjects, as he often does, a compromise--move the patient to a safer place. Turning to Rodney and going 'hey, isn't there a fully stocked lab on the East Pier--the one near a transporter?' Rodney could mention there's all the supplies Carson needs. And then a brief, tense filled few moments as you see Carson wheeling Watson out to the new room. And then the surgery goes as it goes and we get the same result--we think we're safe, but we're not. That would not have taken more than a few scenes to accomplish.

8) Did you feel Carson was given an appropriate memorial? What did you think of the reactions of all the characters?

I thought it was a wonderful memorial. Beautiful scene, beautiful emotions from all the actors.

9) Did you approve of the ending scene between Carson and Rodney? Should it have been in there?

I think in the end I like it better than not. I was glad to see Carson again, though I still think he shouldn't have patted Rodney on the back. Rodney should feel a little guilty.

10) Why do you think TPTB felt it was necessary to kill off Carson? As a viewer, do you appreciate the need for a 'darker story' or do you prefer to keep things happy and unrealistic so all the characters stay the same?

*sigh* This is the question, isn't it? I don't mind darker stories *see-->Torchwood* but only when the show is built to be that way. Stargate: Atlantis was not exactly as dark as that. In the three years, we lost two or three 'known' characters. We'd lost Ford, and we'd lost Grodin. So no apologies were made for death--many secondary characters also died. But the two years following those changes, the main six characters had developed such strong, key personalities, with their own fan bases, that just knocking them out piecemeal was foolish. There were so many other things you could have done to change things up without killing them off in a snap.

SPARKY BONUS QUESTIONS!!

A) On her date with Bearded Mike, Elizabeth mentions she prefers "When Harry Met Sally" over "Annie Hall". Bearded Mike argues that WHMS is the definitive argument for women believing men and women can't be friends and that they will inevitably fall for each other. Given EVERYTHING that's occurred with John, who we'd definitely consider a friend (and a close one at that) what is implied, directly or indirectly, by their conversation?

B) Why do you think John was not privy to Elizabeth's 'date' like everyone else? It would have given the writers a chance to 'disclaim' jealousy...

a) I think this was a Gero 'foot in mouth' (or is it 'hug in mouth?') Moment. Most people would admit John and Elizabeth were friends (and those who don't, go rewatch The Real World). So when Elizabeth says that friendships do become more, of course Sparkies (or McWeir shippers or R/E fans) can go 'mwahahahahaha!' on that. It's certainly not applying to Mike--he's a love interest!

b) *clears throat* I am of the opinion that this may just have been a few people not wanting to bother with it. How long does it take for John and Ronon to walk through the mess hall talking, and John to kinda look over and see Mike and Elizabeth together and make a face (or not make a face, though I think we all agree, shipper or not, he'd have to react somehow). How do we think it would have been played? *shrugs*

[Scary Kitty]

I honestly cannot remember what life was like before I had my DVR. People actually had to watch shows when they came on (or tape them on the VCR) and they couldn't pause them?? WOW!!!

I so spoiled...

LOL!

c) Because the Atlantis writers can't go for one episode without someone in critical condition. And if Gero was writing for J/T, then it gives John the chance to worry, so that makes sense too.

And yet, he didn't look all that worried. Especially compared to his Woobie Face of Doom for Elizabeth in Adrift. Funny, that.

b) Because he wouldn't shut up. No, seriously. Elizabeth can stop powerful leaders in their tracks, but she's sort of uncertain how to handle underlings when they don't treat her like 'the boss'. Mike was exactly like that, plus he had a charming sort of way about him. I didn't dislike Mike--but he wasn't John, and I don't think he was capable of understanding everything about Elizabeth he needed to. He could charm the socks off someone, but when the crisis come about, he wouldn't have been by her side--John would have. And actually, it might have been interesting if Dr. Branton had been there messing around with the dynamic. But our writers never would have gone there, too much UST on the other side.

That's a good point. John doesn't always treat Elizabeth like a 'boss' either, but the difference between him and Mike seems to be that John knows when he needs to take that step into 'professional' mode and get the work done, and when he can step into 'friend' mode and be kinda-sorta flirty with Elizabeth.

*sigh* This is the question, isn't it? I don't mind darker stories *see-->Torchwood* but only when the show is built to be that way. Stargate: Atlantis was not exactly as dark as that. In the three years, we lost two or three 'known' characters. We'd lost Ford, and we'd lost Grodin. So no apologies were made for death--many secondary characters also died. But the two years following those changes, the main six characters had developed such strong, key personalities, with their own fan bases, that just knocking them out piecemeal was foolish. There were so many other things you could have done to change things up without killing them off in a snap.

Yeah, I certainly like darker stories as well... as long as I'm given fair warning ahead of time of what to expect. BSG, 24, Babylon 5 were all built for darkness from the start, and I've enjoyed all of them. SGA, coming from the at times almost self-deprecating SG-1, wasn't built for darkness; it was built for whizz-bang fun, the oohs and aahs of exploring new territory, and humor. And so that's what I expected from it. TPTW's attempt to change trains when the show had already left the station was doomed to failure. It's like the old saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.'

b) *clears throat* I am of the opinion that this may just have been a few people not wanting to bother with it. How long does it take for John and Ronon to walk through the mess hall talking, and John to kinda look over and see Mike and Elizabeth together and make a face (or not make a face, though I think we all agree, shipper or not, he'd have to react somehow). How do we think it would have been played? *shrugs*

*snickers and pictures John punching Mike out, starting a food fight in the mess hall*

[Southern Red]

LOL!



And yet, he didn't look all that worried. Especially compared to his Woobie Face of Doom for Elizabeth in Adrift. Funny, that.

John makes the same face whenever people under his command are in danger/die but it's a bit more intense with Elizabeth. Hard to explain if you don't want to see it but it's there. Yeah, he suffered a bit the few times he thought Rodney was dead/dying and that came close but nothing surpasses his Elizabeth!woobie face. And he never recovers from losing her. Examples.

Spoiler:

Rodney:Tao of Rodney


Doppelganger



Tabala Rasa


Kate: Doppelganger


Carson: Sunday


Elizabeth:Adrift

*snickers and pictures John punching Mike out, starting a food fight in the mess hall*

I almost wish they had brought Mike back just to see what John would have done. Depending on the writer of course, it might have been very Sparky intensive. He would at least have given him a good glare with the straightening of the shoulders and invasion of personal space. I'd pay to see that little bearded weasel stand up to that. LOL