Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Is it Darren or David that he couldnt see anything between Sheppard and Weir?

[Janet Fraiser]

Hey guys!

You have to listen the "podcast" on the "relationship in Stargate". They talk about Weir and Sheppard. (30 min), Sheyla, McKeller and Jack and Sam and TPTB. It's not always good for us but it's very interesting. And we have to talk about this so please it's your homework. Do it.lol
Now I'll go to bed but tomorrow I want your comment about his. I want to be a teacher.lol
No it's not an order but it's interesting so....oh...I'm sorry to talk to you like this.lol

I've never listened to any of Gateworld's podcasts, but this one was really interesting. I agree that shippers see romance in a show not just because they look for it, but that it's natural to pick up on emotional aspects of characters that would have been otherwise hidden without said romance. I also appreciate their statement that just because someone views the show differently than you, it doesn't mean what they see can't exist; we all interpret the show how we would like to, which is what I like about shows with lots of different features that appeal to a wide audience. We see Sparky and, yes, we squeal at lots of moments that other people don't even notice, but the same goes for other shippers. Tolerance is key.

Romance is not something you can stifle indefinitely, because it will always be there, subtle or not. The important thing is we enjoy Sparky and we like the very human aspects of the interactions between characters. In the end, all you want is to enjoy a fantastical world where virtually anything can happen and if something doesn't happen that you wish was canon, there's no stopping you from expressing your feelings on it (especially through fanfic!).

I know they touched upon the problems of no closure in SG-1 and the possible forced ship near the end of Atlantis, and I'd have to agree on both those points, but at least romance (or even just friendship) isn't something that's governed by TPTB and simply what you see on screen with the actors. We can deal, for the most part, and be happy that there was chemistry to begin with. Now they're making SGU more "character driven" because they've at least realized the innate importance of relationships as a part of life. At the very least, for us Sparky shippers, we're reassured that it's perfectly normal to see what we see (but we didn't need anyone telling us that to knowthat, now did we?).

Phew. Just getting my jumbled thoughts out 'cause you asked for it, Probie. (Even though I'm sure you guys already know this stuff). On another note, I seemed to be shifting randomly back and forth between first and second person. Oh well.

LOL! With all this talk about rebellious hair, I felt it was appropriate to repost this link:

JF talks about his hair at Creation's Stargate convention in Burbank, California in 2007.

*dies laughing*

LOL. I love his sound effects. And his hair.

*drools*

[Southern Red]

Is it Darren or David that he couldnt see anything between Sheppard and Weir?

Your guess is as good as mine. Just when I have it figured out which is which, I get it all mixed up again. I know one of them sees no ship whatsoever and doesn't understand how we do. And the other one if I remember correctly is a bit more tolerant though he's not a shipper either.

I've never listened to any of Gateworld's podcasts, but this one was really interesting. I agree that shippers see romance in a show not just because they look for it, but that it's natural to pick up on emotional aspects of characters that would have been otherwise hidden without said romance. I also appreciate their statement that just because someone views the show differently than you, it doesn't mean what they see can't exist; we all interpret the show how we would like to, which is what I like about shows with lots of different features that appeal to a wide audience. We see Sparky and, yes, we squeal at lots of moments that other people don't even notice, but the same goes for other shippers. Tolerance is key.

Romance is not something you can stifle indefinitely, because it will always be there, subtle or not. The important thing is we enjoy Sparky and we like the very human aspects of the interactions between characters. In the end, all you want is to enjoy a fantastical world where virtually anything can happen and if something doesn't happen that you wish was canon, there's no stopping you from expressing your feelings on it (especially through fanfic!).

I know they touched upon the problems of no closure in SG-1 and the possible forced ship near the end of Atlantis, and I'd have to agree on both those points, but at least romance (or even just friendship) isn't something that's governed by TPTB and simply what you see on screen with the actors. We can deal, for the most part, and be happy that there was chemistry to begin with. Now they're making SGU more "character driven" because they've at least realized the innate importance of relationships as a part of life. At the very least, for us Sparky shippers, we're reassured that it's perfectly normal to see what we see (but we didn't need anyone telling us that to knowthat, now did we?).

Phew. Just getting my jumbled thoughts out 'cause you asked for it, Probie. (Even though I'm sure you guys already know this stuff). On another note, I seemed to be shifting randomly back and forth between first and second person. Oh well.



LOL. I love his sound effects. And his hair.

*drools*

That's exactly what I've always said. And it's brought out nicely in the podcast, (thank you Tame), shipping is a perfectly normal part of life and is not just for women. We're living proof of that right here.

It's hard to be tolerant when you see nothing between a pair and someone else sees OMG! true love, but I think we are tolerant of the fact that others want a different couple to be together even though we don't see it ourselves. I still get a big exercised when someone twists canon to prove they weren't even friends or that she flirted and he didn't but I'm a bit cranky at times. LOL

I hope the days when some people actively claimed that Sparky was not even a remote possibility are far behind us. I think John's actions in the last few eps she was in settled that argument. At the very least they were very close friends and her loss affected him profoundly.

[Janet Fraiser]

Your guess is as good as mine. Just when I have it figured out which is which, I get it all mixed up again. I know one of them sees no ship whatsoever and doesn't understand how we do. And the other one if I remember correctly is a bit more tolerant though he's not a shipper either.



That's exactly what I've always said. And it's brought out nicely in the podcast, (thank you Tame), shipping is a perfectly normal part of life and is not just for women. We're living proof of that right here.

It's hard to be tolerant when you see nothing between a pair and someone else sees OMG! true love, but I think we are tolerant of the fact that others want a different couple to be together even though we don't see it ourselves. I still get a big exercised when someone twists canon to prove they weren't even friends or that she flirted and he didn't but I'm a bit cranky at times. LOL

I hope the days when some people actively claimed that Sparky was not even a remote possibility are far behind us. I think John's actions in the last few eps she was in settled that argument. At the very least they were very close friends and her loss affected him profoundly.

Oh, I agree with you on the bit about spinning canon. When I say tolerance, I do mean for people to accept the fact that others have their own opinions, regardless of your own, and you have to respect that. In that sense, those who bash on others' ships, or go out of their way to disprove them, should have tolerance. It's totally natural to feel annoyed by people who put down what you like and believe in (in other words, I don't think you're just cranky, as you have a right to be bothered if people do that). We're tolerant enough, I think. It's just others that could use a lesson or to in respecting others. Alas, what else is new? *shrug*

[pkprd869]

Your guess is as good as mine. Just when I have it figured out which is which, I get it all mixed up again. I know one of them sees no ship whatsoever and doesn't understand how we do. And the other one if I remember correctly is a bit more tolerant though he's not a shipper either.

That's exactly what I've always said. And it's brought out nicely in the podcast, (thank you Tame), shipping is a perfectly normal part of life and is not just for women. We're living proof of that right here.

Is that part about me?

It's hard to be tolerant when you see nothing between a pair and someone else sees OMG! true love, but I think we are tolerant of the fact that others want a different couple to be together even though we don't see it ourselves. I still get a big exercised when someone twists canon to prove they weren't even friends or that she flirted and he didn't but I'm a bit cranky at times. LOL

I hope the days when some people actively claimed that Sparky was not even a remote possibility are far behind us. I think John's actions in the last few eps she was in settled that argument. At the very least they were very close friends and her loss affected him profoundly.

All the Sam/Jack shippers probably want to throw rocks at me, because I didn't like their ship. I see why they see it, I understand why people like it, I understand why people favor it, and I respect how they feel. "Divide and Conquer" completely ruined that ship for me, to me it was like "Oh yeah, by the way I love you."

I always liked our ship because it was based on tension and behavior instead of actually saying "I love you", and for most of us guys body language and facial expressions are the easiest ways to express all the mushy stuff. In college, all of us (apporx. 8-12) who watched SG-1 and Atlantis acknowledged the possibility of Shep/Weir. It got split pretty evenly between a "one way attraction", they have "romantic feelings", or "just friends." Other guys who watched an episode with us just to hangout or if we made our girlfriends watch, just about all them would be like , "WTF, just make out on the desk and get it out of your system." If people who don't know the show see it, I doubt we're crazy.

[Southern Red]

Is that part about me?



All the Sam/Jack shippers probably want to throw rocks at me, because I didn't like their ship. I see why they see it, I understand why people like it, I understand why people favor it, and I respect how they feel. "Divide and Conquer" completely ruined that ship for me, to me it was like "Oh yeah, by the way I love you."

I always liked our ship because it was based on tension and behavior instead of actually saying "I love you", and for most of us guys body language and facial expressions are the easiest ways to express all the mushy stuff. In college, all of us (apporx. 8-12) who watched SG-1 and Atlantis acknowledged the possibility of Shep/Weir. It got split pretty evenly between a "one way attraction", they have "romantic feelings", or "just friends." Other guys who watched an episode with us just to hangout or if we made our girlfriends watch, just about all them would be like , "WTF, just make out on the desk and get it out of your system." If people who don't know the show see it, I doubt we're crazy.

*snort* Your and gateraid and actually in the past we've had a few other guys too. And don't tell anyone but I know at least one other guy here at GW who is a closet Sparky but I promised him I wouldn't tell. LOL

I've had that same experience with casual viewers. I have 2 male friends who are SciFi nerds from way back. They both just take Sparky for granted and a couple of times when I've tried to explain that other ship that TPTB claimed they were showing us they told me I was mistaken and no such thing was possible. So you see, people are so confident of what they see, they refuse to believe what they are told. It's like one of the Marx brothers said, "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" I choose to believe my eyes, and they don't lie.

[Erin87]

LOL! With all this talk about rebellious hair, I felt it was appropriate to repost this link:

JF talks about his hair at Creation's Stargate convention in Burbank, California in 2007.

*dies laughing*

Yay! My favorite video ever, that I can pretty much quote word for word! And the inspiration for my fic 'Untamable'. I cannot watch this without laughing. It is physically impossible. He is so funny!

And I listened to the podcast too. It was very interesting. Like SR said, we weren't discounted as completely crazy for seeing what we do. I found that very refreshing. Some of our favorite moments as Sparkies were cited, and it was nice that it was acknowledged that there was something extra in those scenes and it's not completely unfounded. For the most part I agreed with what they said, about shipping in general and particularly about how TPTB led on fans and really didn't know what the heck they were doing with the ships on Atlantis and tried to do a bunch of different ones at the same time.
And I agree with what was said here about tolerance. I'm not saying that if I met a non-Sparky in person I wouldn't try to defend my position (and convert them if possible), but I do accept that there are other ships. (again, pretty much what SR said)
And I like what you said, Vixen in Violet, about romance always being there, and that goes back to what was discussed in the podcast. People need it (or at least a lot of us do). And I suppose it's nice that they're finally getting that with SGU, although only time will tell if they can handle it right (and considering what we've seen so far I have my doubts.)
So anyway, after this rather long winded post, to wrap things up overall I'm content with what was said, and I think Sparky was treated fairly.

[pkprd869]

Yay! My favorite video ever, that I can pretty much quote word for word! And the inspiration for my fic 'Untamable'. I cannot watch this without laughing. It is physically impossible. He is so funny!

And I listened to the podcast too. It was very interesting. Like SR said, we weren't discounted as completely crazy for seeing what we do. I found that very refreshing. Some of our favorite moments as Sparkies were cited, and it was nice that it was acknowledged that there was something extra in those scenes and it's not completely unfounded. For the most part I agreed with what they said, about shipping in general and particularly about how TPTB led on fans and really didn't know what the heck they were doing with the ships on Atlantis and tried to do a bunch of different ones at the same time.
And I agree with what was said here about tolerance. I'm not saying that if I met a non-Sparky in person I wouldn't try to defend my position (and convert them if possible), but I do accept that there are other ships. (again, pretty much what SR said)
And I like what you said, Vixen in Violet, about romance always being there, and that goes back to what was discussed in the podcast. People need it (or at least a lot of us do). And I suppose it's nice that they're finally getting that with SGU, although only time will tell if they can handle it right (and considering what we've seen so far I have my doubts.)
So anyway, after this rather long winded post, to wrap things up overall I'm content with what was said, and I think Sparky was treated fairly.

Ship in SGU makes me cringe. Let me explain myself before I get beat up Stargate, I think we can agree, is terrible with romance. They didn't ruin ours thank God. I admit, I still watch Stargate because of action/adventure and humor. The podacst crew was fair, so I liked it. I was glad they didn't call us bonkers. I agree with the podcast crew and all my friends above that TPTB screwed with us. I do disagree with them, I wasn't looking for spark, for me it was there. I guess it was more about the way Ms Torri and Joe acted in their scenes.

[KrisRussel]

LOL! With all this talk about rebellious hair, I felt it was appropriate to repost this link:

JF talks about his hair at Creation's Stargate convention in Burbank, California in 2007.

*dies laughing*

*dies laughing too*
Hilarious!!! And it's just the way my hair is... it just won't stay down... so weird...
But this is truly a hilarious video and now I want to see Joe at a con even more
Oh, I especially love the part where the FX department had to intervene to keep his hair down and even they couldn't do it in the end

Oh, I agree with you on the bit about spinning canon. When I say tolerance, I do mean for people to accept the fact that others have their own opinions, regardless of your own, and you have to respect that. In that sense, those who bash on others' ships, or go out of their way to disprove them, should have tolerance. It's totally natural to feel annoyed by people who put down what you like and believe in (in other words, I don't think you're just cranky, as you have a right to be bothered if people do that). We're tolerant enough, I think. It's just others that could use a lesson or to in respecting others. Alas, what else is new? *shrug*

Exactly. I get it that people ship for other ships. I can even understand some of their reasoning, but what I can't accept is people bashing our ship without even considering the possibility of it. Like I said before, because of things I heard before SGA started, I began watching the show as a non-sparky shipper, but the ship I was expecting to see just wasn't there for me. Instead Sparky was all over the screen, being all overly obvious. So I became a Sparky quite fast (story is longer, but full version is not needed now).
Anyway... I have done the "let's compare ships in a neutral way" bit. I have seen vids of Sparky, Sheyla and McWeir. I have read fics of Sparky, Sheyla and McWeir. And every time (for me personally) Sparky is the one that is most convincing and looks natural.
Yet I understand why Sheyla and McWeir see what they see and I will never say their ship doesn't exist, because in a way it does, but I will go into battle with either of them from the moment they start claiming Sparky doesn't exist, because that means they have absolutely no respect for my ship and it means they aren't open to other possibilities and are narrow-minded.
And if there is one type of person I can't take it's people who don't have an open mind for other ideas and possibilities and therefore are narrow-minded.

All the Sam/Jack shippers probably want to throw rocks at me, because I didn't like their ship. I see why they see it, I understand why people like it, I understand why people favor it, and I respect how they feel. "Divide and Conquer" completely ruined that ship for me, to me it was like "Oh yeah, by the way I love you."

I always liked our ship because it was based on tension and behavior instead of actually saying "I love you", and for most of us guys body language and facial expressions are the easiest ways to express all the mushy stuff. In college, all of us (apporx. 8-12) who watched SG-1 and Atlantis acknowledged the possibility of Shep/Weir. It got split pretty evenly between a "one way attraction", they have "romantic feelings", or "just friends." Other guys who watched an episode with us just to hangout or if we made our girlfriends watch, just about all them would be like , "WTF, just make out on the desk and get it out of your system." If people who don't know the show see it, I doubt we're crazy.

Lol, no worries, I won't throw rocks at you
I used to be a hard-core Sam/Jack shipper, but like has been said many times before, tptb frakked this ship over and over and over again.
Makes me glad tptb never actively wrote Sparky, cause they prolly would have frakked that over and over and over too

I love the fact your friends see Sparky in the blink of an eye
Makes me wish I has friends like that

Ship in SGU makes me cringe. Let me explain myself before I get beat up Stargate, I think we can agree, is terrible with romance. They didn't ruin ours thank God. I admit, I still watch Stargate because of action/adventure and humor. The podacst crew was fair, so I liked it. I was glad they didn't call us bonkers. I agree with the podcast crew and all my friends above that TPTB screwed with us. I do disagree with them, I wasn't looking for spark, for me it was there. I guess it was more about the way Ms Torri and Joe acted in their scenes.

Ship in SGU makes me cringe too... tptb frakked up nearly every ship they actively write/wrote or claim to write/wrote (Sam/Jack, Daniel/Janet, Shep/Teyla and in a way Daniel/Vala and McKay/Keller) and now they claim they have found the solution to the shipping "problem" and are going to include good ships in SGU...
Yup, makes me cringe, cause every time I hear that, I think about all the other ships they frakked up and I think: "Yup, they'll frak this up too."
If you're incapable to write decent ship in the past, why would you suddenly be able to do it right? Because they finally exhausted every wrong way?
Also the fact that they say "this time we'll do it right" gives me a headache and pisses me off. We've had TEN SG1 season and two movies and FIVE SGA seasons... they need that long to get it right? I'm sorry, but if I needed TWELVE YEARS to get something right at work, I would have been fired a very long time ago... a very very long time ago.

[KrisRussel]

fic rec... totally heartbreaking:

Worse by Bil

[Probie]

I'm glad to see that you've done your homework. And because I'm a nice teacher, I will give you A+.lol
I never listened Gateworld podcasts too. It's the first time.
Pff I have to back to work again.

Edit: Thanks for the link KR. Now I will go to work with tears in my eyes. Beatiful fic and very well written.

[pkprd869]

fic rec... totally heartbreaking:

Worse by Bil

That was some deep introspection.

I'm glad to see that you've done your homework. And because I'm a nice teacher, I will give you A+.lol
I never listened Gateworld podcasts too. It's the first time.
Pff I have to back to work again.

Edit: Thanks for the link KR. Now I will go to work with tears in my eyes. Beatiful fic and very well written.

That's like the 4th A+ I've ever got What can I say, you can't spell "D" without a few diplomas (shrug)

[Southern Red]

Ship in SGU makes me cringe. Let me explain myself before I get beat up Stargate, I think we can agree, is terrible with romance. They didn't ruin ours thank God. I admit, I still watch Stargate because of action/adventure and humor. The podacst crew was fair, so I liked it. I was glad they didn't call us bonkers. I agree with the podcast crew and all my friends above that TPTB screwed with us. I do disagree with them, I wasn't looking for spark, for me it was there. I guess it was more about the way Ms Torri and Joe acted in their scenes.

It makes me cringe too. I am totally spoiler free on SGU. I don't even know who's in it except for LDP and don't care. I predict what they are going to do is sex, not relationships. They are going to go the BSG route and hook people up right away with no thought to development, chemistry or fan reaction. It will be predictable and boring and nobody will care. There won't be any ship wars because there will be nothing left to the imagination.

Feel free to bookmark this post and throw it in my face if they do it well. I've been wrong before a famous S4 prediction comes to mind and I don't mind being wrong when it turns out better. LOL

[Eri13]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

Add me to the list of Harry Potter fanatics... I've got my ticket and I'm going to see it tonight! YAY!

*flails* AWWWWWW! That's so sweet, and sad for their counterparts. But it gave them the kick in the pants they needed to finally face what they feel for each other. Carpe diem!

I love Season 3 Lizzie hair! She's so adorable with the longer hair with the little bit of wave at the ends. *squees* And of course, that means there's more for John to play with.

I agree about Liz's hair in S3, though she always had cute hairstyles. I think the only style I didn't like was the Rising/38 Minutes straight 'do.

Is that part about me?

All the Sam/Jack shippers probably want to throw rocks at me, because I didn't like their ship. I see why they see it, I understand why people like it, I understand why people favor it, and I respect how they feel. "Divide and Conquer" completely ruined that ship for me, to me it was like "Oh yeah, by the way I love you."

I always liked our ship because it was based on tension and behavior instead of actually saying "I love you", and for most of us guys body language and facial expressions are the easiest ways to express all the mushy stuff. In college, all of us (apporx. 8-12) who watched SG-1 and Atlantis acknowledged the possibility of Shep/Weir. It got split pretty evenly between a "one way attraction", they have "romantic feelings", or "just friends." Other guys who watched an episode with us just to hangout or if we made our girlfriends watch, just about all them would be like , "WTF, just make out on the desk and get it out of your system." If people who don't know the show see it, I doubt we're crazy.

I love you. No really.

I haven't listened to the podcast and probably won't get the chance, but it sounds like everything was discussed rationally, which is nice. It seems obvious to me that many interpretations can be made of the show, which is how people come up with split ships. People should enjoy their ships and take pleasure in those moments that make them happy. Me, I liked Elizabeth and John best, so naturally their shared scenes were my favorite, benefited by how well they got along and the natural flow of their characters' interaction. I just 'got' Sparky. That doesn't mean I didn't see the hints for Sheyla, or that there was also a special bond between McKay and Weir. But I enjoyed John and Elizabeth's scenes, and I was pleased that those scenes continued to have 'spark' and chemistry all the way through Season 5. Whether intended to be a 'true love' ship or not, the consistency with which Torri and Joe played those characters and their bond--Joe in particular through Season 5--kept everything alive for me. And I think that being able to treasure that is great!

[Southern Red]

I agree about Liz's hair in S3, though she always had cute hairstyles. I think the only style I didn't like was the Rising/38 Minutes straight 'do.



I love you. No really.

I haven't listened to the podcast and probably won't get the chance, but it sounds like everything was discussed rationally, which is nice. It seems obvious to me that many interpretations can be made of the show, which is how people come up with split ships. People should enjoy their ships and take pleasure in those moments that make them happy. Me, I liked Elizabeth and John best, so naturally their shared scenes were my favorite, benefited by how well they got along and the natural flow of their characters' interaction. I just 'got' Sparky. That doesn't mean I didn't see the hints for Sheyla, or that there was also a special bond between McKay and Weir. But I enjoyed John and Elizabeth's scenes, and I was pleased that those scenes continued to have 'spark' and chemistry all the way through Season 5. Whether intended to be a 'true love' ship or not, the consistency with which Torri and Joe played those characters and their bond--Joe in particular through Season 5--kept everything alive for me. And I think that being able to treasure that is great!

Oh that is so true. And you basically summed up the podcast without watching it. Sparky was treated very fairly and even argued for a little bit. The scene we used to call 39:30 because of the time stamp, the long look on the stairs in The Siege 2, was brought out as being shippy along with him carrying her and his reaction in TS/TE, so I think it was very well done. The general consensus was that TPTB were playing all of us all along. And considering that everybody involved denied that, I think for impartial people as closely involved as those guys who do the podcast to notice it, it's reason to stop having to defend ourselves. LOL

It was also brought out that any filling in of the ship blanks can be done through fan fic. After all, that is what it is for. We don't expect anybody to agree with us, just acknowledge that we just might have a reason to feel the way we do. Is that too much to ask? Never mind.