Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

love the walk and talk in This mortal coil. though if the clone elizabeth really did come back to atlantis season 4 and season 5 would've taken a very different turn.

If Elizabeth had stayed on then maybe we would have had a season 6

[Southern Red]

Got a fic rec for you!

Give Me Hope, by fex_84. John won't give up on finding Elizabeth. And he won't give up once he's found her, either. Angsty with a happy ending.

Happy Sparky reading!

That fic was perfect. It should have gone just that way.

Heck yes, they did! And the rumor was that the end scene was added later to take advantage of the Sparky chemistry. Pardon me while I at the writers who later denied writing Sparky...

*waves to the Sparky lovers*

That's a tidbit I got from re-reading the beginning of this thread. We had some posters around here with good inside connections who said at the time that the ship focus changed shortly after the pilot aired and the Joe/Torri chemistry was the reason. Also the emergence of the huge Sparky shipper group may have influenced decisions. Why they backed off later is anybody's guess but I agree that TPTB were not unaware of the Sparky.

Are we talking about the guys who said (well at least one of them) they don't tend to watch how the final product came out? O_o

*goes to read kris!fic*

That always baffled me but I don't think it's entirely true. Just recently in answering a question, I forget exactly what, JM said that they each watched the end results multiple times both before and after adding the effects. I think it's just that Sparky was something they didn't want to see, so they ignored it. It's like a phenomenon I used to notice when I taught. A kid would write a book report and read it to the class. Okay fine. Then I would read it to do the grade and find the kid had read what he wanted it to say, not necessarily what was actually on the page. Does that make sense? That's why it's hard to beta read your own fics. It's some sort of mind/eye lack of connection or some such.

[SMB_BOOKS]

SPARKY IS ETERNAL!

E (thinking to herself) - I wonder if John realizes just how much I love him?



J - (taking her hand and saying outloud, softly) - "I know what you're thinking Elizabeth and I feel the same way. Let's go watch the stars on our balcony..."

[Eri13]

Eh, I'll continue your thought-thread and makes it Sparky-connected.

I don't think, after they knew each other, when having personal conversations they ever called each other anything but by their first names. In a meeting they can call each other "Col. Sheppard" and "Dr. Weir", but on a more casual basis they don't. Sometimes they'll use last names when communicating with other authourity when referring to each other, but I think under most circumstances, they're John and Elizabeth. If that makes sense because the thought was jumbled. (:

But I could perfectly see why they would refer to each other differently in different situations, but within those situations, it's (almost?) always consistant.

As for a breakdown what others consistantly call each other most of the time, with an occaisional writer flub:

- John calls Rodney 'Rodney'; 'McKay' when formal (or when he's angry sometimes)
- John's nickname for Ronon is 'Chewie'.
- John calls Carson 'Doc' (which is effing cute) in casual conversation.

- Elizabeth calls Rodney 'Rodney'; 'Dr McKay' sometimes in more formal/introductory situations
- Elizabeth calls Carson 'Carson'; 'Dr Beckett' sometimes when formal

- Rodney calls John 'Sheppard'
- Rodney calls Elizabeth 'Elizabeth'
- Rodney calls Carson 'Carson'

- Teyla calls John 'Colonel' half the time and 'John' the other half. Quite sporadic if you ask me.
- Teyla calls Elizabeth 'Dr Weir'; she becomes 'Elizabeth' more often in the later seasons
- Teyla calls Rodney 'Rodney'
- Teyla calls Carson 'Carson'

- Ronon calls John 'Sheppard'
- Ronon calls Elizabeth 'Dr Weir'
- Ronon calls Rodney 'McKay'
- Ronon calls Carson (??) I'm actually drawing a blank on this one.

- Carson calls Elizabeth 'Elizabeth'
- Carson calls John 'Colonel/Major'
- Carson calls Rodney 'Rodney'
- Carson calls Ronon 'Ronon'
- Carson calls Teyla 'Teyla' plus 'love' if you will

- Everyone calls Ronon 'Ronon'.
- Everyone calls Teyla 'Teyla'.

Cool! I think Ronon also refers to Carson as "Beckett" when speaking about him in the third person. I also think it's interesting to note when they started calling each other by their names.

For John and Elizabeth, she calls him "John" first in Rising. He calls her "Elizabeth" first in Hot Zone. I DO think that's really significant.

For Rodney and Elizabeth, they both refer to each other on a first name basis in Rising.

John calls Teyla "Teyla" of course in Rising. But if I'm not mistaken, she first refers to him as "John" comfortably at the end of "Conversion". That one I'm not terribly sure of, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I did that... once. *chugs a mojito* I wonder if we could get the smiley icon changed to make more of a quick visual distinction between the two threads...

Or whenever the review comes around for this thread and if they rename it...maybe there should be a mention of having Elizabeth's name first

Yes, our thread will be renamed shortly, probably to John Sheppard/Elizabeth Weir thread. I definitely think we could put her name first and maybe replace the smiley, though I do look for that smiley when I log on...

[Southern Red]

(snippidy)

Yes, our thread will be renamed shortly, probably to John Sheppard/Elizabeth Weir thread. I definitely think we could put her name first and maybe replace the smiley, though I do look for that smiley when I log on...

I just click on my controls first and it brings up any thread you have posted in that has new posts. Saves time and you avoid all the threads you don't want to read. It's only when there haven't been any posts since you posted last that you have to search for the thread.

[KrisRussel]

I just click on my controls first and it brings up any thread you have posted in that has new posts. Saves time and you avoid all the threads you don't want to read. It's only when there haven't been any posts since you posted last that you have to search for the thread.

Our thread is usually on the first page of the "characters and relationships" page, so not much searching there either... of course you godda pay attention not too accidentally click the Sheppard/Teyla thread
But as I said, not much searching

[Southern Red]

Sparky picspam. For some reason I got distracted by the 6th pic. Don't look.

Spoiler:

John: So what's happenin' on the Sparky thread?


Liz: Well, they've had a resurgence of Sparky goodness today.


John: Huh, what brought that on? They've been very quiet this week. Frankly, I've been a bit disappointed.


Liz: Well it looks like somebody reported them for being off topic?


John: How can they be off topic? Isn't everything about Sparky?


Liz:That's what I thought, but some people don't like us.


John: Well it looks like it backfired because our thread is busier than ever.


Liz: Yep, even some people who haven't posted in awhile are showing up.
John: Sweet!


John: Well, gotta go. I'm giving Kanaan a golf lesson.


Liz: John, wait. I'll head out with you. I loaned Teyla my Victoria's Secret catalog and she wants to show me the items she's planning to order.


John: Oooh, a present for Kanaan I'm betting.


Liz: Promise me you won't say anything. It's a surprise.


John: Only if you order that red one I like.
Liz: John, you told me you hadn't even glanced at that catalog...what red one?

[KrisRussel]

Sparky picspam. For some reason I got distracted by the 6th pic. Don't look.

Spoiler:

John: So what's happenin' on the Sparky thread?


Liz: Well, they've had a resurgence of Sparky goodness today.


John: Huh, what brought that on? They've been very quiet this week. Frankly, I've been a bit disappointed.


Liz: Well it looks like somebody reported them for being off topic?


John: How can they be off topic? Isn't everything about Sparky?


Liz:That's what I thought, but some people don't like us.


John: Well it looks like it backfired because our thread is busier than ever.


Liz: Yep, even some people who haven't posted in awhile are showing up.
John: Sweet!


John: Well, gotta go. I'm giving Kanaan a golf lesson.


Liz: John, wait. I'll head out with you. I loaned Teyla my Victoria's Secret catalog and she wants to show me the items she's planning to order.


John: Oooh, a present for Kanaan I'm betting.


Liz: Promise me you won't say anything. It's a surprise.


John: Only if you order that red one I like.
Liz: John, you told me you hadn't even glanced at that catalog...what red one?

*dies laughing* "what red one?" *dies laughing again*

[Southern Red]

This is OT but since it's about John/Joe maybe I'll be forgiven.

Spoiler:

It may already be old news, but I just learned that there will be a feature at long last on JF on the S5 DVD's called "Conversation with a Colonel".

Bout time I say.

[SMB_BOOKS]

SR - LOVE the picspam!

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies!

Yes, our thread will be renamed shortly, probably to John Sheppard/Elizabeth Weir thread. I definitely think we could put her name first and maybe replace the smiley, though I do look for that smiley when I log on...

I want the red heart smiliey. Of course, there are several other ship threads that have it too, so it's not like we'd look unique, but, darnit, it's the principle of the thing. A red heart. That's so Sparky.

I just click on my controls first and it brings up any thread you have posted in that has new posts. Saves time and you avoid all the threads you don't want to read. It's only when there haven't been any posts since you posted last that you have to search for the thread.

I do the same thing. The Sparky thread is the only thread I'm subscribed to that has any really regular activity anymore, so it's easy to keep track of.

SR, I can't see your picspam! They've all been replaced by those evil "this image or video has been moved or deleted" pics.

[Scary Kitty]

This is OT but since it's about John/Joe maybe I'll be forgiven.

Spoiler:

It may already be old news, but I just learned that there will be a feature at long last on JF on the S5 DVD's called "Conversation with a Colonel".

Bout time I say.

Yeah,

Spoiler:

I think there was something about that on JM's blog a little while ago, but Ivon Bartok (the guy who puts together all the DVD features) wrote on his blog/twitter a couple of days ago that it was going to happen and the title for the feature.

And yeah, it's been long overdue. Too bad they never bothered to do a feature on Torri while she was on the show.

[Irish Eyes]

Hm, I'll try to answer this without bringing any non topic relationships into the mix, but I'm afraid I can't escape the friendship that never got explored properly. I mean Teyla and Elizabeth friendship.

I think at that point John was feeling too upset, too guilty, too much of everything to face the task of putting Elizabeth's life into a box. The process would be both mechanic and symbolic and like Scary Kitty said, it would be too much like saying goodbye in a moment when John desperately needed hope. In my personal canon, Teyla didn't ask anyone to do it, she did it because she knew both of her friends would appreciate that. (that's something I love about Teyla)

I love your interpretation of this and since in my mind Teyla and Elizabeth were good friends, it works for me. However, the cynical part of me thinks the writers had her do this just to give her something to do.

love the walk and talk in This mortal coil. though if the clone elizabeth really did come back to atlantis season 4 and season 5 would've taken a very different turn.

I love that scene too.

If Elizabeth had stayed on then maybe we would have had a season 6

Sending response via PM on this...

This is OT but since it's about John/Joe maybe I'll be forgiven.

Spoiler:

It may already be old news, but I just learned that there will be a feature at long last on JF on the S5 DVD's called "Conversation with a Colonel".

Bout time I say.

This is excellent news. It better be at least an hour to make up for making us wait this long.


HEADS UP:

Amazon has season 4 on sale for a good price right now. I ordered it because as much as I hate what they did, I think Torri and Sparky are pretty amazing in season 4. Plus the scene in Adrift where Keller tells John that Elizabeth probably won't make it is so heartbreaking. John's reaction shows how much he feels for her; it's one of my Sparky!canon moments. It's also the beginning of the change in him which carries forward in both seasons 4 and 5.

[Scary Kitty]

That fic was perfect. It should have gone just that way.

It definitely should've gone that way. John and the rest of the team, if they were actually being written in-character, would have found a way to go after Elizabeth. Never making an attempt was so bogus.

That's a tidbit I got from re-reading the beginning of this thread. We had some posters around here with good inside connections who said at the time that the ship focus changed shortly after the pilot aired and the Joe/Torri chemistry was the reason. Also the emergence of the huge Sparky shipper group may have influenced decisions. Why they backed off later is anybody's guess but I agree that TPTB were not unaware of the Sparky.

Heh, I think you answered your own question later on...

That always baffled me but I don't think it's entirely true. Just recently in answering a question, I forget exactly what, JM said that they each watched the end results multiple times both before and after adding the effects. I think it's just that Sparky was something they didn't want to see, so they ignored it. It's like a phenomenon I used to notice when I taught. A kid would write a book report and read it to the class. Okay fine. Then I would read it to do the grade and find the kid had read what he wanted it to say, not necessarily what was actually on the page. Does that make sense? That's why it's hard to beta read your own fics. It's some sort of mind/eye lack of connection or some such.

You've hit it on the head. They may have been aware of Sparky, but those who were still holding a torch for other pairings just didn't want to let them go in spite of the favorable response to Sparky. It's a damn shame TPTW couldn't see the forest for the trees; the later seasons of the show could've been so much better if they had.

[Scary Kitty]

I love your interpretation of this and since in my mind Teyla and Elizabeth were good friends, it works for me. However, the cynical part of me thinks the writers had her do this just to give her something to do.

*joins you in cynical bliss and passes over a mojito*

This is excellent news. It better be at least an hour to make up for making us wait this long.

I don't think any of the DVD features has ever been more than 20 minutes. But yeah, it had better be long. Not some piddly little 5 minute blurb. And they'd better not try to censor Joe's comments.

HEADS UP:

Amazon has season 4 on sale for a good price right now. I ordered it because as much as I hate what they did, I think Torri and Sparky are pretty amazing in season 4. Plus the scene in Adrift where Keller tells John that Elizabeth probably won't make it is so heartbreaking. John's reaction shows how much he feels for her; it's one of my Sparky!canon moments. It's also the beginning of the change in him which carries forward in both seasons 4 and 5.

$19.99. That's what I paid for Seasons 1-3. Of course, Torri was in all of those instead of just a handful, so they'd have to drop the price more to make it worth my while. I'm still going to wait to see if they do a series box set like they did with SG-1, with additional features that weren't released in the individual season sets. And if they don't, maybe I'll just get Torri's episodes on iTunes.