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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread
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Tao of Rodney, Part II (dedicated to SR for her birthday).
Rodney's increased intelligence has led to his blithely making changes throughout the city using the Chair--much to the frustration of a rather vocal Zelenka. Again, their relationship is played up here, in preparation to a rather serious moment that will occur in a few minutes.
In other parts of the city (I'm beginning to think Kindler might have a wee bit of Carl Binder in him) we find John checking on Elizabeth's progress (poor John. He apparently doesn't have much to do). We get a nice Sparky photo moment with him leaning in to observe her work ( sure, right, these two were just acquaintances *scoff*. Whoa! That was rather subjective of me, wasn't it??)
A minor bit of Eri luff--I really like it whenever Elizabeth stops someone with her hand. She typically does it when she's concentrating, but I just like it.
The next scene is a pivotal one. I say that because it's sort of Theatre 101--a pinnacle scene that changes the tone of everything to come. Kindler, again, does this well, by binding elements together so that the second phase of the story can kick into high gear.
With Super Rodney reading the minds of everyone, he runs across the unfortunate information Elizabeth has discover--in a nutshell, the machine was an Ascension machine with only two options once it's mutated you.
Ascend or Die.
McKAY: What do you mean, I'm gonna die? (Elizabeth and John stare at him as he stands up, still looking at her in shock.)
McKAY: I'm not even sick! I feel great – never better!
SHEPPARD: That Ancient device ...
McKAY (reading his mind): ... has accelerated my evolution. (He looks at Elizabeth, reading her mind.) Eventually I'll reach a point where I'm physically capable of ascension, but ascension takes more than that – there's a ... there's a mental component. (Elizabeth nods.)
McKAY: I need to know how to make it happen ... which I don't. (He looks at Ronon, picking up his thoughts.) Yet! I'm getting smarter by the minute. (He looks back to the other two.) It's a pretty good assumption I'll be able to figure it out on the way. (Elizabeth opens her mouth but Rodney starts talking again, speaking her mind for her.)
McKAY: OK, so it's not as easy as that. Well, even if I don't, so I stay a highly-evolved human. I mean, I don't have to ascend – it's, it's a choice, right? (John grimaces slightly.)
McKAY: No? What do you mean, no? Oh, that stupid Ancient device doesn't work properly, does it? (He reads Elizabeth's mind again.) It's set in motion a series of genetic mutations that will result in my death if I don't ascend?!
SHEPPARD (quietly to Elizabeth): There *is* something easier about this. (Elizabeth nods in agreement.)
McKAY: *That's* why the Ancients didn't put it into common use – it's just one more in a long line of abysmal, over-ambitious failures! (He stares at them in horror.) Oh God. I'm a dead man!
In a quick flip, we go from humorous to extremely serious. As Rodney realizes he may be 'doomed', his half-finished progress on the city lands another person in serious trouble--Zelenka gets shocked. Literally.
What I like about the healing scene is how the tides of Rodney's mutation have seriously shifted. Though the healing is probably the most advantageous power Rodney has--and the one that should be the most celebratory--the fact that it surfaced because of the damage he did to a close friend, coupled with his own impending doom, makes this scene less amazing and more frightening.
I love it when writing, directing, acting and editing blend together to give us a scene like this, which weighs so much more than it's initial expectation.
I mentioned above that TOR seems split into halves. The second half is all about the expedition's frantic work to make Rodney well again--and most everyone contributes. It's also a fascinating once over of everything that makes Rodney a character we can care about as much as get irritated with.
Elizabeth's contribution--and again, the writer gets kudos from me for giving Elizabeth such an important role in this story--is to serve as Rodney's voice of reason. And the champion of the story, who encourages him to step beyond himself into someone greater. Rodney repays her for that with a really sweet moment in a few minutes. (I will say that Weir/McKay shippers have a lot to shout about here, too, so enjoy your moments, guys).
Though it's sort of a whirlwind, it's also nice to see everything Rodney's accomplishing as he rapidly spins through his mutation. We get it explained to us simply, effectively and in some cases with a humorous twist.
We get some nice recognition of Elizabeth's smarts here with Rodney's 'why didn't I think of that?' response.
Carson's contribution is to monitor the physical aspects of Rodney, and perhaps play up a little of that relationship that would be explored more fully in Sunday.
Remember how I mentioned earlier than John and Elizabeth don't seem to blink an eye in this episode about the time they spend together? Like it's all natural and normal? The next scene is a prime example of what I'm referring to--meal time. It's certainly not an awkward moment for them--they're not acting like two people who've never eaten together before. Though this is the first time we've seen them spend a lunch together, they look like they're sort of accustomed to it. For us in this here thread, it's a very nice scene.
John has some great lines here. Another favorite of mine is John's acknowledgment that 'fighting monsters is what he does best.'
Elizabeth's suggestion, of course, is to have John help Rodney, which he does because *LOL* she makes him. What's nice about that request is that it harkens all the way back to John's time in the sanctuary during Epiphany. That's nice, because those of us who belittle the show for continuity errors get a nice strong thread of continuity here. John's studied ascension, perhaps more than anyone else on the base. So he's the person to go to--and he does try, though in typical John fashion, a little lackadaisically.
Interesting to note--John's personality here is lighthearted, even in the face of the danger to Rodney. Do you think John would have been this off-handed following the events of Season four?
Coming up...Rodney 'releases his burden' to a degree, we get some great character moments and a truly breakthrough revelation...Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!
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Originally posted by Torri012 View Post(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
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Originally posted by Reiko View PostOooh! In a second i'll go look
To my knowledge GW hosts any avatar you link to which is why av's won't rotate. (All avatars used by GW are upload to GW's server... signatures are not)didnt know that
Originally posted by Torri012 View Post
that video is amazing!sigpic
______________________________________________
~~Pip~~ thanks to the very talented csom who made my sig & avi
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Tao of Rodney, Part III
Sheppard's assistance isn't helping--more or less because Rodney's not good at relaxing. Already defeatist, he's essentially given up and has accepted he's going to die. Elizabeth gentle chastizes him about that, with some lovely dialogue between them. I know this may sound strange, but to me every word makes sense. That doesn't always happen on this show--sometimes dialogue is there to fill, or exposition. Many times it can be mundane. But here, it has this really nice kind of importance. Like it doesn't just forward progress, but actually has a prosaic--and elegant--kind of value to it.
WEIR: I don't know if I could, but you are certainly selling yourself short by not even trying.
McKAY: To be honest, I don't have the first clue where to start.
WEIR: Stop thinking.
McKAY: See, I don't understand that.
WEIR: One of the biggest things that holds people back is that somewhere deep down they believe they're not deserving. *You* have to ... release your burden.
McKAY (rolling his eyes): Oh, please!
WEIR: I know – spirituality to you is a load of mumbo jumbo, but it does help people find peace with themselves.
McKAY: But you have to believe.
WEIR: I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about shedding yourself of guilt, of anger, of ill-feeling, of anything that makes you feel shame. And then you can focus *all* of your energy on ascending.
McKAY: So what you're telling me is that I don't think I'm worthy.
WEIR: Rodney, I don't know what you truly believe about yourself. For all I know, you use your intelligence to compensate, to make yourself feel better for other things you think you may lack.
McKAY (suspiciously): Like what?
WEIR: That, I can't tell you ... but maybe you could start reading your own mind?
Minor Sparky: love how she quotes John here!
Rodney does take her words to heart--and he begins by visiting those people he cares about most. The first is Zelenka, and we get a really nice scene between the two of them. Continuity circles as we see Rodney apologizing for his behavior to Zelenka in general--which was put on display for us in the beginning of this episode.
What he says is: "Here's the thing: you're a brilliant scientist, and a decent human being, and you should not have had to endure the kind of abuse that you've taken from me in the past few years. I hope you can find a way to forgive me for all the things I've said and done to you. You deserve much better than that, so I wanted you to know that."
Kindler gets more bonus points from me for including a scene with Teyla. Though she's not had much of a role in this story, it was really nice to see Rodney regarding her as family, and respecting the nature of her Athosian background. With a scene as simple as this, we are reminded why Teyla needs to be in the 'end' scene at Rodney's bedside.
With Ronon, I think we see how Rodney regards him--as someone tough and brave. And yet despite this, we also see how Rodney feels tender towards him, wanting to protect him in a way from the bad memories of his past. Rodney isn't afraid of him enough to hug him, which to me signifies how much Rodney truly cares about him.
With Elizabeth--well, here is where we get that heart-mind-soul trio I so enjoyed in S1-3, in all their glory. John, Rodney, Elizabeth. For Rodney and Elizabeth, there is the nature of the respect that underlies their relationship, and has been a part of their relationship all the way back to Rising. What's more, Rodney honestly cares about Elizabeth, enough to care about how she is regarded by other people, and to be bothered by it when that regard is negative. 500-pages-long about sums up his feelings. My only regret here? That we never heard tell of that book again.
With John, well, I like how opposite the scene with Elizabeth this is. Rather than going on about how much John means to him (and writing a 500-page novel about it) Rodney simply says 'we're good, aren't we?' To which John responds 'yes'. Not overly maudlin there. But it's enough.
The tone of this scene really kind of frightens you--I can't say I thought Rodney was going to die, but he sure did tie up those loose ends well.
Rodney's final moments--including a soft 'thank you' to Carson--are very touching. For me, no one feels out of character, from Elizabeth's choked up "Rodney, you're a good person. Know that we love you," to John's caveat of 'as a friend loves another friend'. And for one brief moment, it does feel like we're going to lose him. Though most of us know enough to know we're not, it still has that look and feel, and that's something to be applauded.
But what would the absolute brilliance of an Ascended Rodney be if he couldn't come up with the solution at the eleventh hour? By reprogramming his own pre-mutated DNA back into the machine, Rodney is able to restore himself to status quo--to the relief of everybody--including a rather huggy Ronon (what is it with him and huggies?)
I mentioned that Echoes has a great wrap up scene, and I think Tao of Rodney has one too. I greatly admire good ending scenes, because I think they're rather hard to do--even writing them in prose is difficult.
The scene between Elizabeth and Rodney kind of sums up everything that has occurred in the episode, with Rodney back to his old self--and yet, does anyone else get that sense of 'I'm so glad?!' There's a little something different, too, and the true question lies in whether it's you, the viewer's perception of Rodney, or the way David Hewlett is playing him. Is he less arrogant, perhaps learned from his mistakes? Or are you, having walked through the story with him, and been a part of his more delicate moments, just super glad to see him back to normal? A question for the ages, perhaps (or tomorrow's discussion questions).
But we get a nice nod to shipping here, too, in case no one noticed. I love how Rodney needles Elizabeth for saying she 'loved him' and then points out the 'magical' chemistry they've always shared. I think McWeir shippers can completely celebrate that, and Sparkies can sort of smile at how, for them, much of the chemistry in the episode centered around her and another guy. Summed up nicely in the last five lines, perhaps?
McKAY: Ah. (They start to walk out of the room.) Now, is Sheppard still bugging you to let him use the ascension device to turn himself into some kind of a superhero?
WEIR: Oh yes.
McKAY: Despite the fact that the Ancient database states that its effects on people are wildly unpredictable and that I'm just lucky I wasn't instantly melted down into a pool of protoplasm.
WEIR: Yes.
McKAY: Yes. Well, maybe you should let him.
WEIR: I think not.
I will say that Torri always flashes David her most brilliant smiles.
She kinda gives him a little of the Weir eyebrow at his assertion about 'chemistry'.
Overall, Tao of Rodney is a fun watch for me, because I enjoy McKay's character, and I really appreciate how none of the 42 minutes of the episode feels wasted at all. Some of the dialogue is really sharp, and all the characters really feel nicely in character, connected, and colorful.
This misses some of the pizazz of Echoes, perhaps because it goes on a darker, less comic-book-style bent midway through, but it is still another great example of how character studies confined to Atlantis work really, really well.
How did you feel? Is TOR a good watch for you? What Sparky parts do you love?Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!
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Originally posted by Anuna View PostObjectification? What was that? *needs a reminder* Where's that poster of yours, woman?
Spoiler:
Originally posted by Ncc-72452 View Post*gleefully breaks out a defibrillator*
Don't worry! I saw exactly how Keller used this! (And under what circumstances)
*gasp*
To quote River:
"'Day' is a vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles. It's not applicable..."
*pause*
"I didn't get you anything."
*grins sheepishly*
Originally posted by pip2 View Postah ha
this sig?
OT
Spoiler:http://www.clintonio.com/profile/pip2/fav/sig_flan_star.jpg
and here are the pics that are in it...
click to make bigger
also here's my PB album with those pics in incase you want to see if there are any more there you likeevrything is snurchable
Pip's PB
Those pants. And the scruff. And that shirt. And those pants. What a great birthday present.
Originally posted by SMB_BOOKS View PostLOL, I'll bet you could.....
Sorry, I don't think even Elizabeth is that generous. The "eyebrow of doom" is just the beginning of her weapons....
Spoiler:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...echoes0180.jpg
J - SR, Happy Birthday, I hope you enjoyed the picture postcard we sent.
SR (off camera) - It was great, but I was hoping to see more of you, I mean it. That's why I zipped over to Atlantis....
E - (unleashing the eyebrows of DOOM) - Oh really? Let's you and I have a little chat. John, sweetie, I'll see you later.
Who knows, SR, maybe you'll catch Elizabeth in a good mood and she'll share willingly....
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Originally posted by Southern Red View PostReposted for education purposes only.
Spoiler:
My favorite River quote is "I swallowed a bug". LOL
OMGOMGOMG! Thank you. That big pic is justThose pants. And the scruff. And that shirt. And those pants. What a great birthday present.
Not a chance. She's not stupid.Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!
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Happy Birthday Southern Red!*hands card stuffed full of Sparky money as present*
Originally posted by Torri012 View Post
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I know I say this every time, but fabulous job on the recap Eri!Really highlighted all the best points, and reminded me why I love that episode. I was clapping at the computer screen and laughing in happiness several times when you made a point about the ep's Sparkiness. (It's so truuuuue...
)
I've always like Tao of Rodney. *points up to recap to explain why* Really just great character moments all around, with everybody. (And background Sparkiness, love it!) I think it's definitely one of the best episodes of SGA there is.
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Okay, where are all the new smileys coming from? I know Zuz made some and I saw the link to the 'comfort' one, but does she have a whole page out or something???Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!
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Originally posted by Eri13 View PostOkay, where are all the new smileys coming from? I know Zuz made some and I saw the link to the 'comfort' one, but does she have a whole page out or something???
Okay I guess I can share my Sparky icon now.
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Just random:
I was watching 'Hide and Seek' and '38 Minutes' a little while ago and I was ridiculously happy. The good ole' days, when everyone was where they should be. *sigh* All the character building moments with Rodney and the team... like the end of H&S, when it's just Rodney, John, Elizabeth, Teyla, and Peter. I was just watching it and it was like... Family. That's what they were. *sighs again*
And I love the smile on John's face when he tells Elizabeth he shot Rodney. He looks/sounds so pleased with himself!
And even though I know it was too early in the show to think ship, every time John looked at Elizabeth I would start smiling. Same goes for when they were just standing next to each other. Every time. I love the little exchange in H&S over the football game, and the smile she gives him. And then in 38 Minutes... the whole thing over what he was going to say! And the many many looks of concern from Elizabeth! And the exchange in the infirmary at the end! Ahhhh! *collapses in fit of happiness*
*recovers and is calm*
*sighs happily* I love Stargate, I really do. All I need to put myself in a good mood is watch an episode or two and I'm smiling and laughing like crazy. Ships aside, this was such a good show!! Rodney, with his cowardice/bravery, and John with his jokes and smirks, Carson with his kindness, Elizabeth with her intelligence, humor, and patience, Jack with his dry wit, and Daniel with his earnestness. So much goodness in one franchise!
Huh, woah, where did all that come from?It's the random tribute from nowhere. Okaaay, I'm just going to stop now.
Little speech over.
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Eri13 Wonderful job on the TOR recap! Thank you for your time, attention to detail, and wonderful narrative on these recaps....
I love, love, love TOR. One of my favorite SGA episodes. Funny thing is, I'm not a huge fan of the way SGA tended to focus too much on Rodney (just my opinion), but I absolutely love this eppy. Weird, huh?
I think the reason(s) why I love TOR so much begin with Elizabeth. Elizabeth has a meaningful, genuine presence in this episode. She's NEEDED in this episode and it's not because she's the leader of the expedition. It's because she knows Ancient. It's because she knows so much about their culture and has researched so much about ascension. It's because she's a committed and caring friend to Rodney and is determined to help him see the good qualities about himself, to help him transition to the next thing, to help him grow as a person. That is pure awesomeness and Torri abso-fricking-lutely nails it.
And, of course, I love it because it is an Atlantis based episode. No offworld shenanigans. We get to see the city and some of its hidden treasures and get a bit more insight into the world of the Ancients. Any time we got that, I was a happy camper.
Then there are all the relationship moments. I think I'm most attached to all the scenes Rodney gets with each main cast member to make amends, make peace, clear the air, make the connection, etc. One of the ones that got me the most was the Ronon hug where Rodney takes away his physical scars. These two are always sniping at each other, so I guess that's why this touching moment seems to pull at my heart strings so much, I guess.....And then, the huge book about Elizabeth. Anytime someone champions for Elizabeth, I'm one happy gal!
And, as far as Sparky goes - subtle, natural, free-flowing. A shining example of all the casual moments, those glimpses into everyday life and their comfortable connection and chemistry as co-leaders of this (at times) rag tag group.
I so wish we had seen more episodes like TOR. Not because Rodney was the focus, but because character relationships were the focus, Atlantis was the backdrop and Elizabeth was firmly entrenched in the team dynamic. That's a formula that is made of WIN! (in my completely humble and unbiased opinion)
sigpicSignature by Erin87
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Originally posted by Erin87 View PostJust random:
I was watching 'Hide and Seek' and '38 Minutes' a little while ago and I was ridiculously happy. The good ole' days, when everyone was where they should be. *sigh* All the character building moments with Rodney and the team... like the end of H&S, when it's just Rodney, John, Elizabeth, Teyla, and Peter. I was just watching it and it was like... Family. That's what they were. *sighs again*
And I love the smile on John's face when he tells Elizabeth he shot Rodney. He looks/sounds so pleased with himself!
And even though I know it was too early in the show to think ship, every time John looked at Elizabeth I would start smiling. Same goes for when they were just standing next to each other. Every time. I love the little exchange in H&S over the football game, and the smile she gives him. And then in 38 Minutes... the whole thing over what he was going to say! And the many many looks of concern from Elizabeth! And the exchange in the infirmary at the end! Ahhhh! *collapses in fit of happiness*
*recovers and is calm*
*sighs happily* I love Stargate, I really do. All I need to put myself in a good mood is watch an episode or two and I'm smiling and laughing like crazy. Ships aside, this was such a good show!! Rodney, with his cowardice/bravery, and John with his jokes and smirks, Carson with his kindness, Elizabeth with her intelligence, humor, and patience, Jack with his dry wit, and Daniel with his earnestness. So much goodness in one franchise!
Huh, woah, where did all that come from?It's the random tribute from nowhere. Okaaay, I'm just going to stop now.
Little speech over.
Which is why losing those characters, at least in SGA, is so disappointing, because we lost that kind of fun.
I do have to say--one thing I didn't mention in my TOR is how Elizabeth is absolutely loathe to hear about anyone dying. It was nice continuity to see how she refused to hear Rodney's 'lament' on his own death with a "Rodney, don't." She and John were just alike in that respect.Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!
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Originally posted by Erin87 View PostHappy Birthday Southern Red! http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/Erin87_photos/sparky_Bday.gif *hands card stuffed full of Sparky money as present*
I know! That vid is great! I posted a link to it a couple of days ago, but it's totally worth reposting!
--
I know I say this every time, but fabulous job on the recap Eri!Really highlighted all the best points, and reminded me why I love that episode. I was clapping at the computer screen and laughing in happiness several times when you made a point about the ep's Sparkiness. (It's so truuuuue...
)
I've always like Tao of Rodney. *points up to recap to explain why* Really just great character moments all around, with everybody. (And background Sparkiness, love it!) I think it's definitely one of the best episodes of SGA there is.
Originally posted by Reiko View PostThey are continually posted on her thread -- I think its in the fandom section.
Okay I guess I can share my Sparky icon now.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ests/t-006.jpg
Originally posted by SMB_BOOKS View PostEri13 Wonderful job on the TOR recap! Thank you for your time, attention to detail, and wonderful narrative on these recaps....
I love, love, love TOR. One of my favorite SGA episodes. Funny thing is, I'm not a huge fan of the way SGA tended to focus too much on Rodney (just my opinion), but I absolutely love this eppy. Weird, huh?
I think the reason(s) why I love TOR so much begin with Elizabeth. Elizabeth has a meaningful, genuine presence in this episode. She's NEEDED in this episode and it's not because she's the leader of the expedition. It's because she knows Ancient. It's because she knows so much about their culture and has researched so much about ascension. It's because she's a committed and caring friend to Rodney and is determined to help him see the good qualities about himself, to help him transition to the next thing, to help him grow as a person. That is pure awesomeness and Torri abso-fricking-lutely nails it.
And, of course, I love it because it is an Atlantis based episode. No offworld shenanigans. We get to see the city and some of its hidden treasures and get a bit more insight into the world of the Ancients. Any time we got that, I was a happy camper.
Then there are all the relationship moments. I think I'm most attached to all the scenes Rodney gets with each main cast member to make amends, make peace, clear the air, make the connection, etc. One of the ones that got me the most was the Ronon hug where Rodney takes away his physical scars. These two are always sniping at each other, so I guess that's why this touching moment seems to pull at my heart strings so much, I guess.....And then, the huge book about Elizabeth. Anytime someone champions for Elizabeth, I'm one happy gal!
And, as far as Sparky goes - subtle, natural, free-flowing. A shining example of all the casual moments, those glimpses into everyday life and their comfortable connection and chemistry as co-leaders of this (at times) rag tag group.
I so wish we had seen more episodes like TOR. Not because Rodney was the focus, but because character relationships were the focus, Atlantis was the backdrop and Elizabeth was firmly entrenched in the team dynamic. That's a formula that is made of WIN! (in my completely humble and unbiased opinion)
And thanks to all of you for making this a particularly fun birthday. Now I'm off to have some wine and Chinese with the hubby.
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