Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

You and me both.



*snerks* Yeah, the overly made-up pretty boys are just not attractive. They look fake, they feel fake, and it just makes the whole endeavor look like some sort of cheap play for the same teenyboppers who are fainting in the aisles over Twitlight. *headdesk*

Completely OT but on the subject of Twilight.

Spoiler:

Did you see this? http://omg.yahoo.com/news/stephen-ki...-darn/18406?nc I shudder at what he'd say about my fics. I love him.

I don't know guys JF falls into the category of pretty boy to me. Except he is more pretty man than boy but eh you get what I mean. Especially at the beginning of the series.

ITA. Once they stopped making him shave twice a every day, he got hotter. And I don't find young Joe appealing at all. In fact I remember him in earlier things and I hardly noticed his looks.

Heh, I think that's the point. He's not young enough (anymore) to meet TPTW's unrealistically skewed target demographic.

You nailed that one. Look at what happened to Torri.

Another actress I completely adore has that problem. Her name's Andrea Parker and some of you might know her as Miss Parker from The Pretender. She is an absolute awesome actress who can convert emotions by a single look. But right now all the roles she gets is that of moms
I really hope this won't happen too Torri...

Oh, I love Andrea Parker. She was my fave on The Pretender. Looking at NCIS, I fear Torri is doomed to getting hooked up with guys three timestwice her age.

[cc_mac]

ITA. Once they stopped making him shave twice a every day, he got hotter. And I don't find young Joe appealing at all. In fact I remember him in earlier things and I hardly noticed his looks.

I agree. We've had this discussion on the JF/JS thunk thread and its almost unanimous, we all agree he's much hotter with age.
I've been able to catch up with a lot of his earlier stuff too and clean-shaven and baby-faced is not my favorite look for him.
And I'm a big fan of the scruff.

Oh, I love Andrea Parker. She was my fave on The Pretender. Looking at NCIS, I fear Torri is doomed to getting hooked up with guys three timestwice her age.

I love NCIS and I'm so glad that Torri is a recurring character....but Ducky? I admit I was bit shocked at the age difference. Don't get me wrong, I love Ducky, but Jethro is more her age group and he's still a bit older than her.

[Southern Red]

I agree. We've had this discussion on the JF/JS thunk thread and its almost unanimous, we all agree he's much hotter with age.
I've been able to catch up with a lot of his earlier stuff too and clean-shaven and baby-faced is not my favorite look for him.
And I'm a big fan of the scruff.




I love NCIS and I'm so glad that Torri is a recurring character....but Ducky? I admit I was bit shocked at the age difference. Don't get me wrong, I love Ducky, but Jethro is more her age group and he's still a bit older than her.

Yep, that happens with all actresses in her age group and older. I guess that's why some of them torture their faces until they look like they are wearing masks. *shudders* Yet men like Harrison Ford and Clint Eastwood are still getting all the hot young women. Though I was impressed with the ship in the last Indy movie. *cheers middle age*

But mark my words, when JF appears in his next project any love interest will be in her 20's.

[cc_mac]

Yep, that happens with all actresses in her age group and older. I guess that's why some of them torture their faces until they look like they are wearing masks. *shudders* Yet men like Harrison Ford and Clint Eastwood are still getting all the hot young women. Though I was impressed with the ship in the last Indy movie. *cheers middle age*

But mark my words, when JF appears in his next project any love interest will be in her 20's.

This makes me think of the "perceived" age difference between TH and JF. I never got that...
You've all probably discussed this, but I did not think she looked older than JF. I think JF played Shep as "boyish" at times and maybe seemed younger and because she was the leader.....she sometimes had to take the "mom" role especially when Shep and Rodney would get out of hand.
I think of the convo in The Defiant One where Shep and Rodney are trying to convince Weir to let them explore the planet and "cool" alien spaceship. She kinda mentally rolled her eyes, but did give in...in the end. And her intuition was what saved their sixes.
But I thought they were a perfect age-wise match for each other, equals.

[Eri13]

Oh, I know! When I first read that scene, Elizabeth's there, her robe fluttering in a breeze that's scattering flower petals all over... the image of flowers (especially cherry blossoms) floating in a breeze is a common motif in Japanese manga/anime, and it made me squee my head off.

ANIME! Love that imagery.

I don't know guys JF falls into the category of pretty boy to me. Except he is more pretty man than boy but eh you get what I mean. Especially at the beginning of the series.

I would not have called him pretty boy. Definitely pretty man, eventually becoming more rugged as the seasons progressed.

Another actress I completely adore has that problem. Her name's Andrea Parker and some of you might know her as Miss Parker from The Pretender. She is an absolute awesome actress who can convert emotions by a single look. But right now all the roles she gets is that of moms
I really hope this won't happen too Torri...

AHHHHHHHHHH!!! Miss Parker! GAH! I LOVED HER! I loved The Pretender actually and was so hoping they would do the third movie they promised. But... *shrugs*

Completely OT but on the subject of Twilight.

Spoiler:

Did you see this? http://omg.yahoo.com/news/stephen-ki...-darn/18406?nc I shudder at what he'd say about my fics. I love him.

ITA. Once they stopped making him shave twice a every day, he got hotter. And I don't find young Joe appealing at all. In fact I remember him in earlier things and I hardly noticed his looks.

You nailed that one. Look at what happened to Torri.

Oh, I love Andrea Parker. She was my fave on The Pretender. Looking at NCIS, I fear Torri is doomed to getting hooked up with guys three timestwice her age.

*sad* I like Ducky and Jordan.

I don't think it's going to be par for the course that Torri ends up being cast this way. Hollis Mann, who played Jethro's love interest a few seasons ago, was not a buxom twenty-year-old. I think Torri's being cast as Jordan was her just being cast as Jordan, an ME, and they liked her enough to have her return, which suits me just fine, no matter who she's hooked up with.

Whether Torri gets to do more lead stuff will depend on how lucky she gets, I think. There are some kick*** women out there who are holding roles in their forties and fifties (two of the best roles are Lisa Edelstein on House and Marg Helgenberger on CSI).

It's not equivalent to the plethora of young roles out there, I agree, and most of the new shows being cast will feature or highlight younger women. But many shows also know talent when they see it, and the age gaps continue to widen and grow. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a 40-year-old actress to be cast in "Mom" roles, because many 40-year-olds are moms, but I think there is an open venue to see more mature female roles come around, particularly now.

That being said, though, in the back of my mind there is always that uncomfortable feeling that what Goldie Hawn's character said in First Wives Club is mostly true, about there being three ages for women in Hollywood: "Babe, District Attorney and Driving Miss Daisy."

This makes me think of the "perceived" age difference between TH and JF. I never got that...You've all probably discussed this, but I did not think she looked older than JF. I think JF played Shep as "boyish" at times and maybe seemed younger and because she was the leader.....she sometimes had to take the "mom" role especially when Shep and Rodney would get out of hand. I think of the convo in The Defiant One where Shep and Rodney are trying to convince Weir to let them explore the planet and "cool" alien spaceship. She kinda mentally rolled her eyes, but did give in...in the end. And her intuition was what saved their sixes. But I thought they were a perfect age-wise match for each other, equals.

I was actually surprised to find out that Joe was as old as he was in Rising, because I thought he acted very young. That being said, I never thought him significantly younger than Weir in appearance, just in mannerisms--Torri played off Weir like she was a diplomat who had done so much in her life, and Joe played John like he was this sorta sidekick military boy who was just starting the adventure. And her 'look' was much more business-like than his mussy hair and baggy BDUs.

I thought he did have a youthful thing going in Season 1, though--which disappeared by Season 2. He's just lighthearted and funny, but that element of youthfulness is not there anymore. She loosened up a bit in Season 2 and started getting cute hair and stuff, too.

By Season 3, her look had caught up with his and they looked like equals in age and attitude. Same with Season 4.

[Southern Red]

This makes me think of the "perceived" age difference between TH and JF. I never got that...
You've all probably discussed this, but I did not think she looked older than JF. I think JF played Shep as "boyish" at times and maybe seemed younger and because she was the leader.....she sometimes had to take the "mom" role especially when Shep and Rodney would get out of hand.
I think of the convo in The Defiant One where Shep and Rodney are trying to convince Weir to let them explore the planet and "cool" alien spaceship. She kinda mentally rolled her eyes, but did give in...in the end. And her intuition was what saved their sixes.
But I thought they were a perfect age-wise match for each other, equals.

I agree with what Eri said. They started out seeming younger back when he called her "ma'am" and looked all lost and confuzzled. Then in S2 he gets a promotion, they're all chummy chummy co-leaders and voila they're the same age. You'd think they were preparing to ship them or something. I thought at the time as soon as Elizabeth started getting the curls and more makeup that uh oh I've seen this before. Hook up alert! But alas it never happened....or did it?

[cc_mac]

I agree with what Eri said. They started out seeming younger back when he called her "ma'am" and looked all lost and confuzzled. Then in S2 he gets a promotion, they're all chummy chummy co-leaders and voila they're the same age. You'd think they were preparing to ship them or something. I thought at the time as soon as Elizabeth started getting the curls and more makeup that uh oh I've seen this before. Hook up alert! But alas it never happened....or did it?

Sorry, I didn't see that from season one. I never thought that she was older than him.....maybe I just didn't look closely enough....
I think his "ma'am"s were just him showing respect for her leadership. He was mostly respectful to her....not counting Hot Zone.
But, I was happy to see them "softening" her look a bit in the later seasons. She's such a beautiful woman and it was about time they played that up.

[Southern Red]

Sorry, I didn't see that from season one. I never thought that she was older than him.....maybe I just didn't look closely enough....
I think his "ma'am"s were just him showing respect for her leadership. He was mostly respectful to her....not counting Hot Zone.
But, I was happy to see them "softening" her look a bit in the later seasons. She's such a beautiful woman and it was about time they played that up.

Boy was I unclear on what I meant in that one. I should have said he seemed younger in S1 than he did later on. Not that he seemed younger than Elizabeth. I never thought that. I was kidding about the ma'ams and the change in look. I tend to do that. Sometimes it lands like a lead balloon.

John had a boyish quality in S1 that he lost quickly in S2. But who wouldn't considering what he's been through. It would be totally OOC now for him to be bouncing through the halls and going on joyrides in the puddle jumper. LOL I wish they hadn't gone so dark but it does fit our perception of John's state of mind quite nicely.

[Eri13]

Boy was I unclear on what I meant in that one. I should have said he seemed younger in S1 than he did later on. Not that he seemed younger than Elizabeth. I never thought that. I was kidding about the ma'ams and the change in look. I tend to do that. Sometimes it lands like a lead balloon.

John had a boyish quality in S1 that he lost quickly in S2. But who wouldn't considering what he's been through. It would be totally OOC now for him to be bouncing through the halls and going on joyrides in the puddle jumper. LOL I wish they hadn't gone so dark but it does fit our perception of John's state of mind quite nicely.

The evolution of John's character is something I'd love, just for fun on a rainy day, to go back and trace. I think it's a very, verrrrrryyyyyyyy subtle development. I remember being completely irritated with his lack of 'feeling' about Elizabeth's demise in non-Elizabeth-centric episodes in S4 (wondering why he didn't lash out and act angry at, among other things: 1) the fact that she got put in that difficult situation of being 'reactivated' and yet he would lose her if she wasn't [not to mention the baggage of his deciding to quote-unquote 'let her die';] 2) that he left her behind; 3) that no one would let him go and get her; 4) that he is told by a clone that she's dead and he then lets the clone die; 5) that he lost a co-leader and friend). I just remember being angry that he seemed unaffected (blew my top, actually, at the 'erasing Asuras from the space map' scene at the end of BAMSR).

But just based on some of the descriptors I've heard since, it appears that John did, on a long-term level, evolve into a darker, sadder character, that reflects all the changes on Atlantis (not just losing Elizabeth, but that being a large part of it). Joe tended to pull John that way throughout the years he played Sheppard--like how he rolled out of that boyish sort of 'innocence?' you might say, discovering Puddle Jumpers and flirting with Teyla about ferris wheels, telling Jinto scary stories and stuff--which seemed to disappear after The Siege series. John has always seemed to evolve slowly and continuously, and that's a real credit to Joe.

[cc_mac]

Boy was I unclear on what I meant in that one. I should have said he seemed younger in S1 than he did later on. Not that he seemed younger than Elizabeth. I never thought that. I was kidding about the ma'ams and the change in look. I tend to do that. Sometimes it lands like a lead balloon.

John had a boyish quality in S1 that he lost quickly in S2. But who wouldn't considering what he's been through. It would be totally OOC now for him to be bouncing through the halls and going on joyrides in the puddle jumper. LOL I wish they hadn't gone so dark but it does fit our perception of John's state of mind quite nicely.

LOL, OK, then I agree .
He did look much younger, but so did Torri to me....

He's carrying such a heavy burden that the lightheartedness of the earlier seasons has pretty much disappeared. But, as you say, it's understandable considering all the losses he's experienced and the people he feels guilty about losing.
Season 5

Spoiler:

I was happy to see the toy-car race between him and Rodney.

[Anuna]

Yep, that happens with all actresses in her age group and older. I guess that's why some of them torture their faces until they look like they are wearing masks. *shudders* Yet men like Harrison Ford and Clint Eastwood are still getting all the hot young women. Though I was impressed with the ship in the last Indy movie. *cheers middle age*

But mark my words, when JF appears in his next project any love interest will be in her 20's.

Latest Indy movie was soo good especially because of the ship. I loved it.

I shudder at the thought of what some PTB might do with JF's next role. He's a man, not a boy. His character should date women, not girls. Please, no 'Twilight'? Ugh. I think JF and TH perfectly complimented each other's age, another reason why Sparky looked so convincing and real.

[Killdeer]

I agree with what Eri said. They started out seeming younger back when he called her "ma'am" and looked all lost and confuzzled. Then in S2 he gets a promotion, they're all chummy chummy co-leaders and voila they're the same age. You'd think they were preparing to ship them or something. I thought at the time as soon as Elizabeth started getting the curls and more makeup that uh oh I've seen this before. Hook up alert! But alas it never happened....or did it?

LOL - I thought the same thing. They got Simon out of the way, brought Ronon in for Teyla (sorry, but I still think those looks she gave him in Runner were steaming hot ), and I thought they were going full-speed ahead with the Sparky. Why give all the signals if you didn't mean to go anywhere with it?

Gotta say, on the scruffiness, though - I hate to be the dissenting vote, but Never been a fan of the scruffy look. Or maybe I should say the unshaven look - not really a fan of beards or whiskers. I think the only actor who I've ever thought was sexy with a beard was Ed Quinn on Eureka. Just a personal quirk I guess - I guess I'm unusual in that though, because most women I know do like it.

[Southern Red]

LOL - I thought the same thing. They got Simon out of the way, brought Ronon in for Teyla (sorry, but I still think those looks she gave him in Runner were steaming hot ), and I thought they were going full-speed ahead with the Sparky. Why give all the signals if you didn't mean to go anywhere with it?

Gotta say, on the scruffiness, though - I hate to be the dissenting vote, but Never been a fan of the scruffy look. Or maybe I should say the unshaven look - not really a fan of beards or whiskers. I think the only actor who I've ever thought was sexy with a beard was Ed Quinn on Eureka. Just a personal quirk I guess - I guess I'm unusual in that though, because most women I know do like it.

How do you feel about hairy chests? Just askin'. I'm not talking lice man on ER last week, just you know nicely furry.

Spoiler:

And speaking of confusing signals, they seem to be consistent with that. I just rewatched S&R. There were no Sheyla anvils in that one. There was a Sheyla Mac Truck. Wha' hoppen?

[KrisRussel]

AHHHHHHHHHH!!! Miss Parker! GAH! I LOVED HER! I loved The Pretender actually and was so hoping they would do the third movie they promised. But... *shrugs*

She was amazing wasn't she... and in case you're interested, we're still campaigning for the 3th movie, just send me a pm and I'll send you the info... but I fear for it too... we've had so many promises from the creators and the studio, but still no news on when filming will begin... and Mike is now on Broadway for the next few months, so again, nothing
Anyway, this was completely not OT and to get back OT:

Spoiler:

[Killdeer]

How do you feel about hairy chests? Just askin'. I'm not talking lice man on ER last week, just you know nicely furry.

I have no strong opinion either way.

And speaking of confusing signals, they seem to be consistent with that. I just rewatched S&R. There were no Sheyla anvils in that one. There was a Sheyla Mac Truck. Wha' hoppen?

Oh good grief. I can't rewatch that episode. The idea that Shep's been secretly pining for Teyla all this time...I just can't. It totally destroys my respect for him. I have to pretend it didn't happen.