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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    I must have missed the Phantoms questions My response to that ep is: outstanding performance by PM (I forgot that one in his top 5 Reiko, but in terms of acting I think it is his best).

    While I hate backstory in general (I've always thought it is a cheat's way of telling a story) this ep was done really well. Sometimes I tend to forget about it because it is standalone, rather than part of an arc.

    Most other points have been covered more eloquently than anything I could have written


    TRI/II

    It seems like an ep that if TPTW could go back and do again, they would. After all, we see the ancients (the focus of a good number of seasons on SG1, let alone Atlantis) for what seems like a few minutes, only to have them killed off screen by the replicators (oh the irony in that ). As a sidenote, the woman that played the rep Capt looks a lot like the woman who played the young Linea (the Destroyer of Worlds) back in early SG1. She delivered the same quality performance there.

    In a perfect world, the ancients would have had an ep to themselves, whether that be in helping them fix their ship, or them coming to Atlantis and discovering our 'poor treatment' of their former home, or some other reason.

    I've always found TRI slow, but maybe that stems from too many WTF moments?

    * Elizabeth (a leading negotiator on earth) not being involved in the discussion with the ancients

    * Rodney being the one to point ^ out

    * John not being concerned about Elizabeth (not to mention her situation to begin with), although I completely understand the reasons for sending Carson instead of John (teh ship). But Carson and Rodney have actually known Elizabeth for longer than John, and equally they should know what is OOC for her too

    *the SGC's apparent abandoning of Atlantis. Why did we not really hear of anything until it was attacked?

    *why did we not see part of an ep devoted to their new lives (ie how they don't really make them as happy, or how they find it hard to relate to their new friends)

    * O'Neill stays in Atlantis? Really? The head of Homeworld security? He may as well have tested the gate bridge. And don't get me started on his only being a two-star and holding that position. Homeworld should be a four-star position, and have a place on the Joint Chiefs at the very least.

    * jeepers, SGA-1 did seem to escape the SGC easily

    *Elizabeth has a frakking GUN, with no reservations AT ALL? Whatever

    *I agree the windback is a bit of a cop out, but in the context of the series it is okay. It worked here, and they only did it once.

    * General O'Niells underwater scenes dragged on too long. I liked them, but we all knew he wasn't going to die on SGA. Endlessly tortured perhaps, but not die. Plus some of you would have liked to see JF swimming instead. I would have settled for TH or RL (they'd have had to use a really strong adhesive for teh wig) but whatever floats your boat.

    And on with the pics

    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    I think being here devalues your position. After all, you are smarter than Rodney, and commander of Earth's most sophisticated ship, yet you are manning a position that can be filled by a Lt.
    Dr Weir never felt she had to do that
    I know, but I get to fire the weapon, so it's all good



    Spoiler:

    :keller: Why yes, I can see replicators from my house


    OMG, we're doomed


    Spoiler:

    Why are you so covered up? Now I don't have so much to look at when Rodney is talking
    Oh put it back in your pants flyboy. Some of us have important stuff to do


    Spoiler:

    Why yes you are an Elizabeth substitute, but this is AU, so it doesn't matter.


    Spoiler:

    You don't want to get into a p***ing match with me Colonel. My ship is MUCH bigger than yours. My ship pwns your ship. Your ship is so is so pathetic it has to park inside of my ship so it doesn't get hurt.
    Last edited by gateraid; 25 January 2009, 02:04 AM.
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      Re the Jack/Liz hug vs John/Liz hug

      It's all in how it's played I guess, but to me at least, when you look at the S/W one in TSIII (shippy or not), it seems like:

      I am so relieved to see you are alive, given that you just went on a suicide mission with my approval
      OMG, she's hugging me. I was not expecting that AT ALL. She really cares about me (take that however you want). What do I do? Where do I put my hands?
      pulls back, still relieved

      The O/W one seems like to good friends or colleagues. No ST at all. Elizabeth is happy, but there isn't the same level of emotion. And equally, while Jack is taken aback at being hugged (just like John), his reaction is to the hug, not the level of emotion associated with it.

      On the O/W relationship, Jack should at least respect Elizabeth. After all, she went out on a limb for him in TLC, first approving the mission and then going against Kinnsey (more than once). Then as SGC leader, she allowed the mission that lead to his revival. While he would do things differently no doubt, I assume he would respect her
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        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        There would have been less panting if you had read my last post first.
        Falcon Horus, the go-to-gal for:

        * Kate

        * Kate/Teyla

        * Lemmings

        * computer related problems

        * corrector of misinformation spread by, umm, MEEEEE!!!!

        * protector of newbies, giver of wise words to more seasoned posters

        * info on all sorts of behind the scenes stuff, links to interviews, commentaries and the like

        * sigs

        * web pages

        * wedding and greeting card designs (I know they were probably the simplest [so am I] but I love those stick figure ones)

        * de facto moderator and easer of tensions


        I'm sure others could add to this, but you get the idea
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        Comment


          Originally posted by gateraid View Post
          As a sidenote, the woman that played the rep Capt looks a lot like the woman who played the young Linea (the Destroyer of Worlds) back in early SG1. She delivered the same quality performance there.
          Probably because it's the same actress. Which possibly had something to do with why I didn't care for her all that much. *shrugs*

          I'm really enjoying the episode discussion - a lot of interesting insights.
          - Life after Stargate -
          Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
          Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
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            Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
            Probably because it's the same actress. Which possibly had something to do with why I didn't care for her all that much. *shrugs*

            I'm really enjoying the episode discussion - a lot of interesting insights.
            I wouldn't have picked up on it except that in a rare occurrence, I actually watched an old ep the other day, which she was in. Although it also looked like she was wearing a wig in that one :shrugs:

            She wasn't given a lot to work with in TR I. I liked what she did, but at that stage esp, they seemed hell bent on trying to portray the ancients as dumb and arrogant. And yet they protected the expedition while they were being mindprobed/killed?? That bit just shouldn't have been in the script, as it was a bit contradictory
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              More on TR I

              Spoiler:


              You be the judge of where her right hand is

              I'm sure she had just dropped a piece of her meal and was trying to get it back
              Last edited by gateraid; 25 January 2009, 02:09 AM.
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                The actress is Megan Leitch. And she played Ke'ra, the youthified, amnesiac version of Linea, who ended up falling in love with Daniel in the episode Past and Present (this was immediately after he lost Sha're).

                Yes, she did a fine job - honestly, I'm not quite sure why it rubbed me the wrong way. *shrugs again*
                - Life after Stargate -
                Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
                Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
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                Comment


                  Originally posted by Killdeer View Post
                  The actress is Megan Leitch. And she played Ke'ra, the youthified, amnesiac version of Linea, who ended up falling in love with Daniel in the episode Past and Present (this was immediately after he lost Sha're).

                  Yes, she did a fine job - honestly, I'm not quite sure why it rubbed me the wrong way. *shrugs again*
                  All the ancients rubbed me the wrong way in SGA, but I found no fault with her performace. Sometimes you just get that feeling - I get it with Landry. Of course he has those eyes
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                    True.
                    - Life after Stargate -
                    Agent Carter * Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * The Blacklist * Castle * Elementary * Grimm
                    Hawaii Five-0 * The Mentalist * NCIS * NCIS:LA * Once Upon a Time * Rizzoli & Isles
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                      Command Dynamics

                      I just caught wind on my flist that the server of CD was hacked. The person in charge is in the process of fixing the problem, doing some recoding and something with back-ups.

                      It's all I know. Thought you guys might want to know.
                      *nods* Just saw that on my flist too... good to hear the site wasn't permanently lost.
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        I've always found TRI slow, but maybe that stems from too many WTF moments?

                        * Elizabeth (a leading negotiator on earth) not being involved in the discussion with the ancients

                        * Rodney being the one to point ^ out
                        Yeah, WTF? It's along the same line as having Sheppard and Bates negotiating for food in Underground. Damn, people, you've got a frakin' international diplomat on board... USE HER! And TPTW claimed that they couldn't come up with any stories for Weir. Lies, all lies!

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        * O'Neill stays in Atlantis? Really? The head of Homeworld security? He may as well have tested the gate bridge. And don't get me started on his only being a two-star and holding that position. Homeworld should be a four-star position, and have a place on the Joint Chiefs at the very least.
                        Word!

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        *Elizabeth has a frakking GUN, with no reservations AT ALL? Whatever
                        Yeah, a real gun with bullets, no less! I can see giving her a non-lethal (to humans) weapon; Sheppard would no doubt insist upon that for safety/security reasons, and Lizzie's pragmatic enough to understand that. But, a frakin' P-90? So not happening.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        * General O'Niells underwater scenes dragged on too long. I liked them, but we all knew he wasn't going to die on SGA. Endlessly tortured perhaps, but not die. Plus some of you would have liked to see JF swimming instead. I would have settled for TH or RL (they'd have had to use a really strong adhesive for teh wig) but whatever floats your boat.
                        *snickers*

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        And on with the pics

                        Spoiler:
                        Spoiler:
                        [ATTACH]7689[/ATTACH]
                        I think being here devalues your position. After all, you are smarter than Rodney, and commander of Earth's most sophisticated ship, yet you are manning a position that can be filled by a Lt.
                        Dr Weir never felt she had to do that
                        I know, but I get to fire the weapon, so it's all good



                        Spoiler:
                        [ATTACH]7690[/ATTACH]
                        :keller: Why yes, I can see replicators from my house

                        [ATTACH]7691[/ATTACH]
                        OMG, we're doomed


                        Spoiler:
                        [ATTACH]7692[/ATTACH]
                        Why are you so covered up? Now I don't have so much to look at when Rodney is talking
                        Oh put it back in your pants flyboy. Some of us have important stuff to do


                        Spoiler:
                        [ATTACH]7693[/ATTACH]
                        Why yes you are an Elizabeth substitute, but this is AU, so it doesn't matter.


                        Spoiler:
                        [ATTACH]7694[/ATTACH]
                        You don't want to get into a p***ing match with me Colonel. My ship is MUCH bigger than yours. My ship pwns your ship. Your ship is so is so pathetic it has to park inside of my ship so it doesn't get hurt.
                        *cracks up* The last one is soooo good!
                        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                          Return I and II YAY. As many problems there are with this episode, I enjoy it because it includes all of the main cast on a mission ... and that makes me very, very, happy.

                          Carson Visiting Elizabeth. Like I've said previously, I would have really wished that it was John who came and visit her, and I also have my speculation to why the writer of this episode decided not to. It would be too intimate. He comes to her door, she invites him in -- you know where it all goes from there. I was going to mention something that goes in line with this scene about Elizabeth seeming like an incompetent human being, but I'll leave that to Anuna since she made me consider that at first.

                          SG1 Crossovers. For the most part, I actually didn't mind it much here! I like the scenes at the SGC and the O'Neill and Woolsey banter is hilarious. But one gripe I have is that I thought O'Neill got way too big of a part in the underwater-diving sequence. I personally thought it would be better for John (Atlantis character) to do it.

                          The Carson/Rodney Scene. It may have been overdone. But I liked it. I think it was especially poignant the first time I watched it (and even now still), because I had Sunday on my mind and it made me want to chuck something at Rodney because he made Carson cry and I wnated to hug him. Which leads us to:

                          Rodney. I thought, like Eri said, Rodney was balanced nicely in this episode without being overdone: "smart, arrogant, cowardly, humorously, goofy, touching, emotional and confident." I like it.

                          Carson. I thought overall he could have been written way stronger in this episode. I thought he had a few OOC lines when visiting Elizabeth. *stink-eyes Marty G* But the turtles line is always memorable.

                          John. Before the dinner scene why is he being such an ass? Okay, why are they all acting OOC when they return to Earth, WTF. *flails*

                          Will do more later.
                          Someone called me? hehe. I will do more detailed discussion here, let me just put in my two cents (or lipa's, if you want Croatian currency) about Elizabeth acting disfunctional.

                          I moved town not so long ago. I know that shock, when you leave your home and go someplace where you feel like walking around with a neon sign on your head saying "I'm not from around here". You think everyone notices how lost you feel. By all means, it should have been featured in this episode, but not in the way they did with Elizabeth - and John. IMO Rodney was most in character. John was paraphrasing Elizabeth's speech from the Rising, mentioning best and the brightest while helping his injured team - geek limp down from the gate, but eh? Is that all we get from our rebellious flyboy?

                          They totally overdid with Elizabeth. She would be shocked, but in my opinion, they made her weak and dysfunctional. Then Carson pops up and she's dressed up and sparkling all of the sudden. WTF? Has someone just transplanted another personality into her? In the dinner scene the sparky chemistry hits you full force, and that's precisely where you see how OOC this ep is written at times (who wrote this?! Was it Marty G?); two people who don't call each other for weeks (while one is stuck in her apartment not washing her hair and eating pizza, feeling sorry for herself, while the other is being a whiny pain in the mikta, also feeling sorry for himself but not enough to do something about it) don't flirt like this next time they see each other. If they didn't talk for weeks, it should have been more awkward between them. It isn't. They're back on track, and this is a proof that writers were doing one thing and the actors something completely different (and it makes more sense).

                          They should have sent John instead of Carson. And yes, it should have ended with kissing. Because that would be totally and completely in character. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
                          I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                            Yeah, WTF? It's along the same line as having Sheppard and Bates negotiating for food in Underground. Damn, people, you've got a frakin' international diplomat on board... USE HER! And TPTW claimed that they couldn't come up with any stories for Weir. Lies, all lies!
                            I have a love/hate relationship with her scenes in TS II, where she essentially tells Everett she is going to the Genii planet, then secures the weapons. It is a really good set of scenes, and true to Weir's ability, but I always smirk at her coming through the gate with nuclear weapons. I almost expect her to do the Dr Evil finger-smile

                            Yeah, a real gun with bullets, no less! I can see giving her a non-lethal (to humans) weapon; Sheppard would no doubt insist upon that for safety/security reasons, and Lizzie's pragmatic enough to understand that. But, a frakin' P-90? So not happening.
                            I assume it was an ARG, but its been a while since I saw the ep, so I'll have to take your word for it. But I agree, the very symbol of giving her a gun to begin with at least warranted a throwaway line, or someone showing her how to hold and discharge it. As for the greater symbolism of someone who worked their whole life trying to end the need for weapons being forced to use one to defend an earth outpost, what a wasted opportunity....
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                              Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                              I have a love/hate relationship with her scenes in TS II, where she essentially tells Everett she is going to the Genii planet, then secures the weapons. It is a really good set of scenes, and true to Weir's ability, but I always smirk at her coming through the gate with nuclear weapons. I almost expect her to do the Dr Evil finger-smile
                              *snickers*

                              Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                              I assume it was an ARG, but its been a while since I saw the ep, so I'll have to take your word for it. But I agree, the very symbol of giving her a gun to begin with at least warranted a throwaway line, or someone showing her how to hold and discharge it. As for the greater symbolism of someone who worked their whole life trying to end the need for weapons being forced to use one to defend an earth outpost, what a wasted opportunity....
                              In Part 2 she does carry an ARG, which does make sense, but she's also a wearing a pistol (not a zat or Wraith stunner) in a thigh holster. And she's carrying a P-90 in Part 1. And no one said a word about it. *headdesk*
                              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                                They should have sent John instead of Carson. And yes, it should have ended with kissing. Because that would be totally and completely in character. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
                                Kissing... John sweeps Elizabeth off her feet and carries her off-screen... to the bedroom... oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about!


                                And before I head off to bed... T-minus 14 hours and 10 minutes to our next post-a-thon!
                                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                                Comment

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