Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Reiko]

He (and the others) certainly didn't seem to have any trouble accepting the clone of Carson that Michael had created, so I don't see why they'd have trouble accepting a similar copy of Elizabeth. Of course, as you pointed out, TPTW are chickens when it comes to that, especially with Elizabeth.

I don't see why anyone would have trouble accepting Franibeth as the original Elizabeth. (Because as far as we know, canon-wise, she is the original Elizabeth.) Except for maybe Ronon, which is understandable, but I'm sure he'll protect her as much as ever once he gets over himself. Because apart from physical differences, she is the same.

There's nothing differing her from Carson. Except TPTB like him slightly more. Though not much. Besides, they can only have time to mess up one loved character at a time because of he space McKeller and such is taking up ... And even then, most of the time Carson is sitting in the corner. Can't they just send him hope and then I won't have to watch any of s5. Haha.

But watch GitM, and everyone by the end (except Ronon aforementioned) treats her the same. Even Woolsey, who was given a nice ego stroke complimentary of Elizabeth.

But she's their leader, and it's important that your leader of anyone is not freeze-dried in space. If this was the glory days, Shep would get the rogue band of Teyla, Ronon, Rodney and Carson together and pull her out of space. And run away with her in the vast spaces of the PG before the IOA can kick their asses.

But no. The only good thing we get out of this, I'm afraid, is the way Joe plays things.

[Southern Red]

I don't see why anyone would have trouble accepting Franibeth as the original Elizabeth. (Because as far as we know, canon-wise, she is the original Elizabeth.) Except for maybe Ronon, which is understandable, but I'm sure he'll protect her as much as ever once he gets over himself. Because apart from physical differences, she is the same.

There's nothing differing her from Carson. Except TPTB like him slightly more. Though not much. Besides, they can only have time to mess up one loved character at a time because of he space McKeller and such is taking up ... And even then, most of the time Carson is sitting in the corner. Can't they just send him hope and then I won't have to watch any of s5. Haha.

But watch GitM, and everyone by the end (except Ronon aforementioned) treats her the same. Even Woolsey, who was given a nice ego stroke complimentary of Elizabeth.

But she's their leader, and it's important that your leader of anyone is not freeze-dried in space. If this was the glory days, Shep would get the rogue band of Teyla, Ronon, Rodney and Carson together and pull her out of space. And run away with her in the vast spaces of the PG before the IOA can kick their asses.

But no. The only good thing we get out of this, I'm afraid, is the way Joe plays things.

And in the alternate universe I have selected as the real canon universe, that is exactly what happened.

[SMB_BOOKS]

But she's their leader, and it's important that your leader of anyone is not freeze-dried in space. If this was the glory days, Shep would get the rogue band of Teyla, Ronon, Rodney and Carson together and pull her out of space. And run away with her in the vast spaces of the PG before the IOA can kick their asses.

But no. The only good thing we get out of this, I'm afraid, is the way Joe plays things.

Hey Anuna - remember when you were asking for input on storylines of how to end SGA? points up to Reiko's post I kinda like this one.

Last episode - Major battle - Atlantis is overrun by wraith. Team destroys the gate so the wraith can't get to earth (after majority of expedition has gone through, safely, back to Earth - Woolsey, Keller, etc.). Team (insert your favorite Season 1 thru 3 characters here) barely escape Atlantis with their lives, a few puddle jumpers and some frantically assembled supplies. Team finds an unknown planet to flee to which just happens to have an long forgotten ancient outpost on it. Rodney & Zelenka, etc. get the outpost up and running again. Meanwhile John, Teyla, Ronon and Carson go find Franibeth and thaw her out.

Rodney & Carson do their technological and biological magic and reprogram outpost systems to handle program to allow Franibeth to replicate a human body (from Elizabeth's DNA Carson had on hand) and download Elizabeth's consciousness (heart, spirit) into new body (which hey, looks exactly like Torri). Btw - Franibeth disintegrates when the consciousness is transferred to Elizabeth's new human body. While Rodney & Carson and working on Elizabeth, John, Teyla, Ronon, Lorne, etc. are running renegade puddle jumper missions to rescue the remaining Athosians who have miraculously been able to avoid wraith detection on the mainland. (Those crafty PG natives).

While the team is regrouping and gaining strength, the wraith are using Atlantis as their new home base (despite it not having a gate and being largely damaged in the recent battle) to wreak more havoc on the PG.

Our team discovers in their new ancient outpost home the plans and technical specifications for gate construction and start making plans to re-establish connection with Earth.

Meanwhile John and Elizabeth are, um, having a "reunion" of sorts.....

Hmmmmm - that could almost lead into an entire fanfiction of Season 6.

GO ANUNA GO! LOL.....

[Scary Kitty]

Hm, do I believe GitM Weir was the real one? I think she was, and I can even justify her OOCish behavior. She was alone, with nobody but eight replicators who wanted to snatch themselves out from Oberoth's clutches. They were her only chance to survive in some way, and part of her probably thought she owned them that one huge favor. Other part of her is a giver of second chances; if she wasn't that kind of person, who believes there's some good in everyone (remeber how she treated Niam?) then John's butt would still be freezing in Antarctica.

I've also considered Stockholm Syndrome as another factor in GitM Weir's behavior. She's had to live as a Replicator for over two years, identifies herself with them, and appears to be losing her sense of her original, human self; Sheppard angrily telling her that she wasn't the real Elizabeth, and then having to destroy Koracen, having to kill, in order to save Sheppard (and by extension, Atlantis) seemed to be a breakthrough in her mind, forcing her to see that change in her.

[Scary Kitty]

Argh! Is the forum running slow for anyone else right now? How annoying.

Yes yes yes, a thousand times yes! You said what I was thinking but couldn't get into words. *flails*

And S5 confirms even better than S4 just how tortured John is. In Remnants

Spoiler:

he conjures up Kolya to torture him. And JM even said a line got cut about him letting her "slip through his hands". That confirms his inner turmoil.

This is confirmed yet again in other episodes when he moves heaven and earth to save people. And it also supports the theory that Vegas John is our John turned inside out.

I like your 2 mantra theory. Proof that Elizabeth is the only one who will lead him to break mantra #1. John has come to epitomize the "leave no man behind" idea, but that rule is law in the military, especially the Marines. They don't even leave dead bodies on the field of battle. John is an honorable man so that rule worked for him but he has also been through a lot in his life that has left him with abandonment issues and issues from his father not respecting his wishes. I'm sure his treatment of Elizabeth comes partly from that. Plus he just gets her like no one else and vice versa as we saw in Common Ground.

I'm with SR; Eri, I think your 2 mantra idea for John explains his behavior before and after losing Elizabeth perfectly. MENTAL GREEN!!!!!

[Scary Kitty]

But she's their leader, and it's important that your leader of anyone is not freeze-dried in space. If this was the glory days, Shep would get the rogue band of Teyla, Ronon, Rodney and Carson together and pull her out of space. And run away with her in the vast spaces of the PG before the IOA can kick their asses.

And they can pull out those spare ZPMs they've been hiding and plug 'em into the city, then steal the city when they go to get Elizabeth. 'Cause, well, if they're gonna be space pirates, they're gonna need a pretty impressive ship. And there's no ship better than the Good Ship Atlantis herself.

[Falcon Horus]

Argh! Is the forum running slow for anyone else right now? How annoying.

It does for me, and I can't acces the main site. Not that it really matters cause I'm watching The 4400 - which I decided will be a 4 season marathon.

[Scary Kitty]

It does for me, and I can't acces the main site. Not that it really matters cause I'm watching The 4400 - which I decided will be a 4 season marathon.

Hmm... It seems to be back at regular speed now (at least, for the moment). Maybe GW has gas from all that holiday overindulging.

Speaking of marathons, has anyone else been watching Skiffy's daily SGA marathons this week?

I don't think he has to plot. It just comes naturally. I remember an interview which can be found here in which he says he doesn't like to be censored in interviews. That was way back in '06 and some of his comments are veeeerrry interesting considering what happened afterward.

In-very-deed. God bless Joe Flanigan, he's the King, no, the Emperor of Snark and we love him for it!

Everything that happened with Weir can be laid directly at the feet of TPTB. They will never admit it was a mistake but at least they were willing to adjust their cast pairings in the coming seasons. Though I still think McKeller was the worst idea they ever had.

Which I still think will come back to bite them in the *ss. With BW's recent slip on JM's blog that falling ratings (and gee, when did that plunge start? Oh yes, when they canned Torri.) really were the reason why SGA was canceled (as many of us have been saying all along) and all the hate and discontent among fans over the cancellation now posing a threat to SGU's survival, things are likely to get verrrry interesting over at Skiffy/MGM in the coming year.

[Reiko]

Last episode - Major battle - Atlantis is overrun by wraith. Team destroys the gate so the wraith can't get to earth (after majority of expedition has gone through, safely, back to Earth - Woolsey, Keller, etc.). Team (insert your favorite Season 1 thru 3 characters here) barely escape Atlantis with their lives, a few puddle jumpers and some frantically assembled supplies. Team finds an unknown planet to flee to which just happens to have an long forgotten ancient outpost on it. Rodney & Zelenka, etc. get the outpost up and running again. Meanwhile John, Teyla, Ronon and Carson go find Franibeth and thaw her out.

Hee, I really like this for a season six if I had to branch off out of season five. This is the perfect scenario to get all the mains back together from seasons 1-3. (Other than the fact that Atlantis will have to

Spoiler:

fly back to the PG first)

But it would be a great point to branch off of S5 here. We also effectively have a reason that Keller is not around without killing her off. Though knowing tptb she would probably be stuck with them too, which kinda defeats the purpose. Cut off from Earth is good, as long as it's not cut off from Earth with Jenny. But forget what I said there.

John and Elizabeth can totally get it on in one of the commandeered puddle jumpers.

Okay, one last question. Theoretically, can't Franibeth (Liz in Fran's form) ascend and shed that body (which was engineered on a computer I recall) and the decend in her original form??

[Falcon Horus]

I want Kate back. *stomps feet*

I want to go to another universe and go back to as it was - Sparky and all.

[Scary Kitty]

Hee, I really like this for a season six if I had to branch off out of season five. This is the perfect scenario to get all the mains back together from seasons 1-3. (Other than the fact that Atlantis will have to

Spoiler:

fly back to the PG first)

But it would be a great point to branch off of S5 here. We also effectively have a reason that Keller is not around without killing her off. Though knowing tptb she would probably be stuck with them too, which kinda defeats the purpose. Cut off from Earth is good, as long as it's not cut off from Earth with Jenny. But forget what I said there.

Carson for Chief of Medicine!

John and Elizabeth can totally get it on in one of the commandeered puddle jumpers.

That's gonna be one rockin' jumper! John, you stud!

Okay, one last question. Theoretically, can't Franibeth (Liz in Fran's form) ascend and shed that body (which was engineered on a computer I recall) and the decend in her original form??

According to Rodney in GitM, the Replicators can't ascend because of their non-organic/machine bodies. Which is utter crap, because it's just thinly veiled racism. Think about it; they can't ascend, they're not human just because of one difference. That's like saying a black person isn't human because of the color of their skin, or that a woman isn't human because she has breasts instead of a penis and testicles. I hate seeing something like that equated to Elizabeth. No wonder Torri turned GitM down!

I want Kate back. *stomps feet*

I want to go to another universe and go back to as it was - Sparky and all.

Hmm... they could go back to the Doppelganger crystal planet and find that Kate's been trapped in the crystal all along. They break the crystal and poof! Kate's back.

[Falcon Horus]

Hmm... they could go back to the Doppelganger crystal planet and find that Kate's been trapped in the crystal all along. They break the crystal and poof! Kate's back.

That's already written in a fanfic... but the crystal was in Atlantis and not on the planet.

[Scary Kitty]

That's already written in a fanfic... but the crystal was in Atlantis and not on the planet.

Excellent! *rubs hands together* So, Team Shep gets Kate, Carson and Elizabeth back, steals Atlantis, and goes on a rampage throughout Pegasus, kicking Wraith *ss and rubbing Earth's nose in it.

[Falcon Horus]

Excellent! *rubs hands together* So, Team Shep gets Kate, Carson and Elizabeth back, steals Atlantis, and goes on a rampage throughout Pegasus, kicking Wraith *ss and rubbing Earth's nose in it.

Shiny!

[Scary Kitty]

Shiny!

The very finest quality of Shiny!