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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
    Wha? We're from the same and very tiny country and I haven't met her! Lol, unfair!!

    I want pretty:



    Say "Adam and Eve" (I think Wormhole came up with that one) !
    I did?.

    Quick plug Weir's Journal has now hit FF.
    BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

    Comment


      Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
      OMFG YES! Mira RULES. She just does, damnit. The Delenn-heavy episodes are some of my faves, because she just knocks it outta the park every damn time. Her little "be somewhere else" speech in Severed Dreams (those of you who have seen B5 know what I'm talking about) sends chills down my spine every single time!
      I love B5. That ship was perfect.

      Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
      The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines Sixteen Master Archetypes.

      I bought it from Amazon when someone in DW fandom mentioned it. My though process was omg I want to know what type of interaction sparky has *buys*

      They are a couple of interactions that describe sparky to me. This one was the Charmer and the Librarian.

      They clash
      The Librarian plans ahead, and keeps lists. The Charmer lives for the moment and plays it by ear. She has not gone out on a date in years and would never dream of starting with him. He thinks she is too uptight and is annoyed with her nagging attention to the rules. This is the classic story of the ant and the grashopper- on e trying to cover every detail, the other living for the moment.

      They mesh
      Both the Charmer and the Librarian are incomplete paintings. They hide part of themselves from the outside word. Holding themselves back from real interaction, they realize how alike they are in their fear of showing their true selves. She secludes herself behind endless detail and monotonous duties. He lives behind a curtain of smiles and wit. Each identifies with the other.

      They change
      The Charmer is amused by her sly humor and struck by her keen intelligence. for a man who skims along the surface, he is surprised when he finds such a treasure buried beneath her straight-laced suit. He learns to appreciate the layered depths of this women.
      The Librarian is yanked out of her safe cocoon by this man. His playful teasing brings a smile to her lips, and she lightens up and learns to go with the flow. His sharp questions and intelligent objections challenge her rigid views. She find out that there are other ways to view the world.




      You are in my brain. We are not the only ones that wished Chloe=Lois. Smallville fandom is divided on this theory. The thing though they SHOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN SO MANY HINTS. Up until last season I believed it could still happen. I just think that they should have never brought in Lois until the very end. Lois Lane is ruined for me and I blame Smallville.
      Perfect description of Sparky. Too bad M&M didn't have a copy of this book. *hates*
      sigpic

      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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        Have you guys voted for sparky yet. I will not let them lose this early in the game.
        sigpic
        My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
          Have you guys voted for sparky yet. I will not let them lose this early in the game.
          I have. Go forth and vote, Sparkies! Defend John and Elizabeth's honor!
          (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
          Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
            Have you guys voted for sparky yet. I will not let them lose this early in the game.
            I did! Will do later today again because we don't want anyone to call us cheats, but please! Jonas/Kianna??????? That's such a ploy.
            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Anuna View Post
              I did! Will do later today again because we don't want anyone to call us cheats, but please! Jonas/Kianna??????? That's such a ploy.
              You can only vote once every round though. So we need new people that haven't voted already. SR, Wormhole you are our only hope to get it tied. Vote vote.

              I know right. WTF is that. I don't even know who that is. Although I am limited in my SG-1 knowledge.
              sigpic
              My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

              Comment


                Kiana was in a single episode, pretending to be human. She had hots for Jonas and broke his heart. Someone is obviously voting against sparky. Geeez I wonder who that may be. Remind me to use my right to vote against certain couples.
                I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  That's why I always liked Sparky. We were never hit over the head with it. It just sat there very quietly and did it's thing.
                  One can argue that we were, actually people have stated that they were tired of being hit with sparky anvils. That made me lol, mainly because I saw it as subtle sparky, yeah there were moments, the hug, the carrying, the kiss, but it's not like they happened in every episode.

                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  And if writers aren't careful about how they do this, a show can become all about the relationship, pushing the other characters and stories into second place.
                  See but I somehow find sci-fi is able to rise above this because it is science fiction, they are not just focusing on the relationships, they have other things to focus on too unlike dramas where it is all about the relationships and the plot comes because of the relationships. I don't think a sci-fi show can fully become about a relationship.

                  Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                  I think that's something all 'ship writers should take to heart, because I think when writing romance lots of writers tend to border on the cheese factor with the whole "I can't live without you!" type thing. More of a show not tell thing is Sparky. It's not always what they say but the way they say it.
                  I enjoyed the "I can't live without you" aspect of the Doctor/Rose relationship. I know I know BUT he did live without her and she without him. Okay yeah he did commit Timelord suicide but he grew past that fortunately. But see even if you didn't enjoy that aspect we saw him learning to move on and yet tptb still kept Rose/Doctor alive. I know I keep saying this but I really wish they would have taken John in the direction they took The Doctor, that was some nice character exploration.

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  On the canon-purist side of things, too, what I loved is how easy they fit. The lack of cliched romance strengthened the mental connection between them. When I write purist canon pre-Lifeline, I don't have John recognize undying love for Elizabeth--but I enjoy having him on the precipice, because that's where I felt the show (combo of writing, directing and acting) took us in pure canon--right to the edge. Had things been different, and Elizabeth's character explored through the replicator kidnapping, for example--including having Sheppard realize he loved her--to me that would have been completely believable and not overtly cliched. Because that foundation was there and strong. Could they have written into Ghost in the Machine John saying "I love you"? Absolutely. Would all the SGA fans have gone 'heh, where did that come from?' I don't think so. Some might not have liked it because it would be 'cheesy', others because it sank other ships, but I don't think anyone would have argued it was out of left field.
                  I wish all of that would have happened. I don't know why they didn't. Elizabeth was gone and yeah even if he realized he loved her there was nothing to be done, but seeing him go through that emotional journey would have been fantastic. Eventually he would have had to move on.

                  But then I remember that SGA is not about the characters but the plot so we will never see character exploration like we want. The most we will ever get is what we got with sparky....one of the reasons I'm not hating on SGU is because it looks like they might fix that FINALLY. Well see.
                  sigpic
                  My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                    You can only vote once every round though. So we need new people that haven't voted already. SR, Wormhole you are our only hope to get it tied. Vote vote.

                    I know right. WTF is that. I don't even know who that is. Although I am limited in my SG-1 knowledge.
                    *Sneaks in – Ducks – Sneaks out*
                    BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      Since you do such beautiful artwork, I'll explain wooby for you. It's a term for the sad John face. Like this one:

                      Spoiler:


                      or this one:

                      Spoiler:


                      I could keep this up all day, but you get the idea.
                      Aha, got it. Thanks.

                      And I'm loving all the pictures everyone!


                      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                      That's a very romantic thought. I remeber some talks about im carrying her legacy, becoming quieter, listening more, talking less, which only shows how much she influenced him and how much she still matters to him.

                      Canon - wise, you can't say she's gone because she's a part of John now. I guess that is how all the great loves end, when one of the spouses dies and the other is still alive. The trace one left in another is just too big, it's a real presence. People leave something behind when they leave (one way or another) and in some way they're never gone, which is why SGA never got rid of Elizabeth. There's still too much of her in John and will always be.

                      And a ficlet along those lines.... I know some of you can't access LJ, so I'll post it under spoiler tags.

                      Set shortly after 'Lifeline'. John and his thoughts. First person narration. I did my best to capture John's voice, which wasn't easy for me since I'm not a native speaker.


                      Spoiler:



                      "Listen"


                      This place is… you know, weird. Different.


                      There are five moons, but you can only see two from the City. Maybe three. Not sure, I think Carter says it’s three. We haven’t been here long enough to know. I think you’d like that, ‘Lizbeth, the view of three moons from the balcony.

                      The stars here are nice, but you know… they’re kinda cold. I think our stars were better, the ones on Lantea. We had better view.

                      Crap, ‘Lizbeth. I’m not sure what I’m trying to say. I’m not good at profound, you know that… I thought I was, you know, useful here, good for something. I think I should have flipped that coin few more times, because, I screwed up big time. Again. Ain’t that great?

                      Tell me you’re surprised.



                      Tell me I’m wrong, tell me anything you want, but it shouldn’t have been you, damn it. It should have been me! I should… I was supposed to protect you! It was my job.

                      And what bugs me the most? I’m talking to myself here! How come you did this better? You’re the listener, not me, and now I’m the one they come to talk to, and I don’t know why, because, honestly I suck at the interpersonal thing. The Air Force really doesn’t train you for that… Not the pilots, at least.

                      You know, these stars are kind of pretty. I just… I wonder if they are even similar, wherever you are. And if you can see them. If you can see… anything.



                      Sh*t, Elizabeth. You have to be somewhere, because I don’t think I can do this... They come and they talk and I just… listen. You did that better - I’m not that smart; I have no ****ing clue what to say. So I just listen. Maybe I should have told you… so many times while you were here, but it was just… you’d tell me I was a fool. You probably would, it would never work, but I guess I’ll never know, eh? Maybe I should have told you what I thought of you. What I really thought of you, how I… feel.


                      Oh, fu*k, ‘Lizbeth! Damn it, why did you do it? I keep running the scene in my head and I just keep coming up with why? I was there, I could have done something, and Rodney could have done something. I could have pulled you out. Why didn’t you give me a chance? Damn it! This is your fault, you know?! Yes, it’s your fault. You know how much I hate… I hate this! Why did you do it? Of all the people, ‘Lizbeth… of all the people, I should have stayed there, that’s my job, not yours!

                      It should have been me. Not you.

                      But you know… I guess it’s true when people say less is more. I keep my mouth shut and people get to say things, smart things, and I get to hear them. Hear them. I should have listened more when you were around, maybe I’d be a bit… better at this by now, you know. ****. Way to go, Sheppard. I just wish… if I could be here with you, one more time, I’d listen. I would.

                      I would.


                      Because, you see, I think I figured it out. You started this, the Atlantis mission, and now I have to keep it going. It’s that legacy thing, right? That’s what you would say, right? Heck I can even imagine you there, you know…! That’s… that’s what I’ll do.

                      Because I kinda suck doing this alone. Please just… talk to me. I’ll listen. I will.



                      I tried to do some things TPTW obviously omitted - the loss, confusion, anger - yes, anger, longing. Wishing he could get her back, desperate hope he's afraid to hold onto. And the legacy, something, I believe, JF is carefully putting into his performance whenever the opportunity arises, because unlike the writers he seems to be aware that John should be portrayed like a person and not a caricature.
                      Ow! That was so beautifully painful. I loved it. Poor John.

                      Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                      Have you guys voted for sparky yet. I will not let them lose this early in the game.
                      Don't know if I was supposed to, but I did.

                      Is there a post-a-thon this weekend for 'The Defiant Ones' (or whatever the next ep is)? Is it at the same time? Because daylight savings starts (or finishes) about this time, does that make a difference to my corresponding time (like it starting at 7am instead of 8 like it did last Sunday morning for me)?

                      And that was a lot of questions for one event...

                      Here's the next wallpaper/sig set

                      Wallpaper:


                      Sig:


                      And a quick wallpaper I whipped up because it's Halloween over here (complete with trick-or-treaters, much to my sister's disgust as she reckons Halloween is an American thing and no one should trick-or-treat here in Australia. She called me something unprintable when I admitted to having gone trick-or-treating once)



                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                        You can only vote once every round though. So we need new people that haven't voted already. SR, Wormhole you are our only hope to get it tied. Vote vote.

                        I know right. WTF is that. I don't even know who that is. Although I am limited in my SG-1 knowledge.
                        I voted, but I'm not happy. I hate these games and swore I was done with them. But we can't let Sparky lose. I don't even remember half those characters.
                        sigpic

                        Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                          ^snip
                          You are in my brain. We are not the only ones that wished Chloe=Lois. Smallville fandom is divided on this theory. The thing though they SHOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN SO MANY HINTS. Up until last season I believed it could still happen. I just think that they should have never brought in Lois until the very end. Lois Lane is ruined for me and I blame Smallville.
                          No show could ever ruin Lois Lane for me. I hated Lois & Clark, but not even Teri Hatcher could ruin Lois, because my earliest love of her was from Comic books. And actually, the 1940's cartoons where she's featured make her pretty awesome--a la Rosalind Russell in "His Girl Friday". My favorite Lois currently was the Superman cartoons that aired a few years ago. Dana Delany played her well. And I don't hate Erica Durance. I just hate that she had to be brought in and replace Allison Mack/Chloe. That was an unenviable task for her, because her Lois won't be respected by half the SV fandom simply because she's NOT Chloe.

                          My least favorite Lois? KATE BOSWORTH. UGH. That was a complete and utter miscast and I still haven't forgiven Bryan Singer for it. I'm not seeing ANY more of his Superman films until she's GONE.

                          Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                          One can argue that we were, actually people have stated that they were tired of being hit with sparky anvils. That made me lol, mainly because I saw it as subtle sparky, yeah there were moments, the hug, the carrying, the kiss, but it's not like they happened in every episode.

                          See but I somehow find sci-fi is able to rise above this because it is science fiction, they are not just focusing on the relationships, they have other things to focus on too unlike dramas where it is all about the relationships and the plot comes because of the relationships. I don't think a sci-fi show can fully become about a relationship.

                          I enjoyed the "I can't live without you" aspect of the Doctor/Rose relationship. I know I know BUT he did live without her and she without him. Okay yeah he did commit Timelord suicide but he grew past that fortunately. But see even if you didn't enjoy that aspect we saw him learning to move on and yet tptb still kept Rose/Doctor alive. I know I keep saying this but I really wish they would have taken John in the direction they took The Doctor, that was some nice character exploration.

                          I wish all of that would have happened. I don't know why they didn't. Elizabeth was gone and yeah even if he realized he loved her there was nothing to be done, but seeing him go through that emotional journey would have been fantastic. Eventually he would have had to move on.

                          But then I remember that SGA is not about the characters but the plot so we will never see character exploration like we want. The most we will ever get is what we got with sparky....one of the reasons I'm not hating on SGU is because it looks like they might fix that FINALLY. Well see.
                          Sparky Anvils? That's funny, cuz I don't see any anvils anywhere. Maybe paper clips here and there, but no anvils.

                          ITA on The Doctor/Rose, but Russell T. Davies knows how to tell a good, continuous story. All of the Doctor/companion storylines have been great, and the Donna one broke my heart. Because Doctor Who is so wacky in terms of enemies, I think they know they get their serious recognition from the personalities of The Doctor and his companions.

                          What you said about Sci-Fi? I think that's why I'm more a sci-fi fan than a fan of anything else. Because human elements never take front and center (due to all the other extraordinary stuff going on) they never beat you over the head with it. Take a show like Grey's Anatomy, where the human element is nothing but front and center, and eventually you end up having a roulette wheel of 'who's slept with who' because that's all they can focus on. Everything, from the hospital cases to the doctor's personal problems, all go back to the same modern-day human element.

                          Not so easy to focus on that when the Wraith are sieging the city. You're not thinking how the battle might be analogous to the J/E relationship. But when Elizabeth goes off headset for a moment, you get a sweet reminder that the boys involved in the battle care about her as much as the city. And afterwards, when everything looks alright, you get to explore that human element for a moment with a hug before the next non-human-related crises pops up again.

                          I think for me Sci-Fi will always have the best writing because it juxtaposes that. And it doesn't always have to be way-out-there sci-fi; Lost and Heroes do sort of the same thing, and they're much more grounded in 'real Earth' than other shows.

                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          I voted, but I'm not happy. I hate these games and swore I was done with them. But we can't let Sparky lose. I don't even remember half those characters.
                          I'm not a big gamer either. Just keep reminding me when I can vote and give me the hyperlink, cuz I won't go searching on my own.
                          Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                          Comment


                            Actually who slept with who is pretty much everything that goes on between hospital staff. Or at least I was told that.
                            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                              Actually who slept with who is pretty much everything that goes on between hospital staff. Or at least I was told that.
                              That's certainly true on Grey's Anatomy. It's getting downright ridiculous. Some of them are starting over again. Ha. This is the very reason my husband won't watch this show or ER. He's also given up on CSI Miami and NY, Without A Trace and countless others. But he agrees that the J/E relationship had great potential and would have worked without being obtrusive. That other ship he thinks is laughable. Especially now.
                              sigpic

                              Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                That's certainly true on Grey's Anatomy. It's getting downright ridiculous. Some of them are starting over again. Ha. This is the very reason my husband won't watch this show or ER. He's also given up on CSI Miami and NY, Without A Trace and countless others. But he agrees that the J/E relationship had great potential and would have worked without being obtrusive. That other ship he thinks is laughable. Especially now.
                                I can barely watch those shows. I'm kinda crossing my fingers that Lost does supremely well in it's final season, so that networks will see that it's profitable to have a 'beginning to end' plan. I think most television show writing suffers because the creators have to run 'round in circles trying to fill without giving away the ending or putting the main couple together. After a while, that 'fill' becomes absolutely pointless and ridiculous.

                                But if shows can have an end point, then they can sketch out exactly where the plots need to go. It'll make that long-developing relationship worthwhile, and keep everything from becoming foolish and shallow. If Lost can do it and succeed, then perhaps others will follow suit.
                                Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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