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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Eri13: The reaction to GITM will be a teller. I know that Morgan wants to come back as Fran so maybe Torri will be convinced to come back as Elizabeth if the story’s right. Could you imagine the reunion between her and John *swoons* it would be so angsty and I have imagined it here at Elizabeth’s Story which was something I wrote a whole while ago.

    Ruined Puzzle: Lol. You’re right. They don’t know how to write a woman character who can’t fight like Sam or Teyla. Vala’s the only exception to the rule and the banter between her and Daniel was just priceless… though what they did give Elizabeth most of the time was good especially with John.

    I guess I haven’t been watching good sci-fi then. ^_^ I have heard that BSG is big on the characters and any show that goes on for like 30 years (Dr. Who) has to have a good character. I did watch the odd episode of Farscape and loved it….

    If the haters of Elizabeth were small and vocal then they obviously got someone to listen.

    Lol. If TPTB say that they are focussing more on character in season 4 then I’d disagree. Season 5 has had as much character development in like four episodes then season 4 had all season.

    And look, I’m back discussing more.

    Anuna: I want them to bring Torri back too and they offered, but she turned them down. Whatever her reasons, and through interviews that have been posted here today I know what they are but the fact remains is that they turned them down.

    And as for the river of denial, I thought that that wasn’t healthy for a person. You study psychology right? Am I wrong? Is denial good or is acceptance better?
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      Falcon Horus: I actually thought that Broken Ties was a great Ronan episode…to each their own I guess. And I liked Daedalus Variations. It was predictable granted but it was still better than some of the season 4 episodes. Ronan didn’t do that much standing around really, he helped to fire the weapons and Teyla had quite a bit of knowledge about the Daedalus systems so she was helping Rodney fix the computer things…that’s a lot to do.

      You didn’t like Doppleganger? Wow. I did, for the most part.

      Woolsey as comic relief? Well Rodney’s been the comic relief for so long and that hasn’t gotten old right?

      And I’m not making people watch what they don’t want to watch. I’m just letting them know what I’ve seen in the episodes and I’m a staunch sparky shipper. I am also of the opinion that if you don’t see something first hand then you really can’t know what’s going on, even if you read the transcript or hear from a friend what went on it’s not the same. You have to see things for yourself and then make an opinion.

      My desire, my burning “OMG IT’S FRIDAY AND THERE’S A NEW ATLANTIS” desire is gone, but I still watch the episodes and I’m still loving them (season 5 at least)

      As for Carson, they killed him in Sunday brought him back in The Kindred and then again in The Seed. I also know that he’s slated to be in several more episodes later in the season. If that isn’t a come back then I don’t know what is.

      I know that CB is a writer and JM runs things but their press releases must go through the same people. Bridge Studios wouldn’t want two contradicting views to come out. I mean, I know that that’s happened before….but not lately. And as for the killing Carson, wasn’t that JM’s idea? Or was it Robert Coopers? I know that it wasn’t Brad Wrights he likes Carson. And if JM wanted to bring Carson back then in episode 2 of Lifeline when Elizabeth wakes up they should have had a MAJOR reset button making it seem like the last couple episodes had all been a dream. I know that that’s been done before but the precedent was set with ‘The Real World’ so I would have bought it.

      We might see Grodin, Ford and Heightmeyer again if they do another alternate reality episode. SG1 did a ton of them in different ways bringing back lots of characters. So I will hold out hope (maybe not so much for Grodin or Heightmeyer because they were minor recurring characters but Ford I am holding out hope for).

      Yes, Don S. Davis left because of his health issues (god rest his soul) but he also left over Janet’s death. Janet was killed off for the reasons you stated but Don S. Davis asked for it to be him not her. Personally, I see Janet’s death as more of a slap in the face to the fans then Elizabeth’s exit. Janet just dies due to a staff blast. Elizabeth has Lifeline and This Mortal Coil which made me bawl. Martouf was a secondary character but he was a much loved secondary character and it was only when he was killed that TPTB knew how popular he was. Plus, his character was mentioned several times later in the series. Michael left because Daniel’s character was stagnating but TPTB killed him off in a way that he could be brought back and he was brought back a lot which leads me to believe that the exit was more amicable then him just not being happy with the material and TPTB telling him to just go then.

      And I do compare Torri to the other because she was given the choice to leave cold turkey or come back for four episodes (basically 2). She chose the latter. She had a send off just like Ford did. Sure I wish that they had developed the replicator!Lizzie arc in season 4 more but I’m not being paid to write the stories so I can’t REALLY complain.

      Oh, and they haven’t erased Elizabeth’s memory from the characters. She was mentioned quite a bit in Season 4 from what I can recall and she’s been mentioned for sure once in Season 5 as well. So no, they haven’t forgotten her. Not really.
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        Reiko: As for Torri’s/Elizabeth’s popularity I thought that only one episode was offered because they had already plotted out and decided upon the other episodes. They could only manage to fit ONE episode in for season 5 but I know that there is an interview somewhere on GW that shows that they were hoping that it would springboard into more episodes in season 6.

        In the end, it is our own choice whether we watch the show or we don’t. I for one have just learned to move past the cuts and accept them for what they are. A part of show business….Atlantis is changing, it doesn’t have the same people from the beginning but the heart is still there. They’re still striving for the same things, even if it may be in different ways. And I for one will keep watching until it’s cancelled.
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          Originally posted by SMB_BOOKS View Post
          I read it! Write more, please!
          Working on another story as we speak! (or rather, write).

          ! All Aboard The Shipper Train!
          I Heart ! Proud Member of Thunk For Club!
          Don't wait for your ship to come in. Swim out to it.

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            Hmm whatcha been up to sparkies? You all have been chatty!
            sig made by me

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              Originally posted by justhere1971 View Post
              Hmm whatcha been up to sparkies? You all have been chatty!
              Oh you know same old same old.

              Have a sparky pic.



              ETA: Oo Anjirika that is a lot to respond to. I'll do that in the morning when I'm not sleepy.
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              My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

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                Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                Oh you know same old same old.

                Have a sparky pic.



                ETA: Oo Anjirika that is a lot to respond to. I'll do that in the morning when I'm not sleepy.
                *snort*

                From the looks of his *ahem* pants - he's trying to get her into a closet in a hurry

                Hangs head in shame, my mind is so rotten.

                Also Anjirinka, I will also have to post tomorrow. It's best to first think and then post.
                sig made by me

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                  Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                  How ironic that they killed off their psychologist in the very season they needed her the most
                  Indeed. Yet more evidence that TPTB have absolutely no understanding of the concept of strategic planning.
                  (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                  Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                    » Speaking of the GITMO thread and showing our Elizabeth support, I'd like to propose a Sekrit Lizzie Green Agenda::

                    » Below teh cut:

                    Spoiler:
                    » After GitMo airs, in the episode/general discussion threads especially, green and leave a nice comment to anyone who makes a positive comment/response about Elizabeth and/or Torri. Even if you don't like the person generally. Try to refrain from redding, but green your Lizzie hearts out.


                    » Sound good?
                    I like this idea. Not just because it will support Lizzie and Torri, but because it will (hopefully) encourage positive and intelligent discussion.
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Anjirika View Post
                      Scary Kitty: I know that TPTB screwed Torri over, but as I’ve said earlier the whole of show business is a transitory one. People are hired and fired for various reasons; trying to boost ratings, wanting to mix things up, problems with the actor…etc. In Torri’s case and ‘Ghost in the Machine’ the story that they pitched her may not have seemed so concrete and I can respect her decision for that but scripts do change and the story may have ended up more concrete after the rewrites and fan reaction to her being back for sure.

                      I know that she might have done well by her career, but Paul McGillion managed to shoot his small part in the Star Trek movie and still managed to work on how many episodes in season five, 5 was it? I believe that she could have moved on with her career and still made time for SGA. But that’s my personal opinion and I will follow Torri faithfully in whatever she does.

                      As to the Carl Binder comment, well it is kinda vague if you look at it but I’ve seen other interviews or something that talk about the replicator story continuing and I would assume that if the replicator story continues, then so will Elizabeth’s. But you’re right. Until we see ‘Ghost in the Machine’ we won’t know.
                      The "transitory" nature of the business, as you put it, is no excuse for TPTB's deplorable behavior towards Torri and to those fans who support her. In fact, it is very bad business for TPTB to have acted in the way they did. SG-1, and now Atlantis, have been on the air for as long as they have because of the support of the fans; SciFi would not have kept the shows on this long if they did not feel that there was enough audience support to bring in advertising revenue. For TPTB to treat their cast so poorly, to treat their fans so poorly, is the entertainment industry's equivalent to cutting off their nose to spite their face. And we now see the result: the ratings have continued to drop as complaints from fans and critics alike continue to rise.

                      Torri, along with Paul, the rest of the cast and the fans, should not be forced to feel any loyalty to those who they know have betrayed them.
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                      Comment


                        Hey Sparkers!

                        Just added the 9th Installment of YOTS! its a good-en i wrote it
                        Thanks to Nad for my awesome sig!
                        Proud member of the SSHSOP, S.H.I.P and MOP!

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                          Originally posted by justhere1971 View Post
                          *snort*

                          From the looks of his *ahem* pants - he's trying to get her into a closet in a hurry

                          Hangs head in shame, my mind is so rotten.

                          Also Anjirinka, I will also have to post tomorrow. It's best to first think and then post.
                          Well, even it's not only your dirty mind or his pants feature something, ahem, prominent inside?
                          I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                            Originally posted by Anjirika View Post
                            Anuna: Clone Carson may not be our Carson but he’s damn close enough. If they were going to bring Carson back, if they didn’t go with the whole “it was a dream” reset button then having him be a clone, or even an alternate reality Carson were the only ways to go. As it stands, he’s got some great character development going and he was brilliant in ‘The Seed’ but since you haven’t watched it, you wouldn’t know I guess.

                            Enterprise was all about the plot to me, Voyager was character driven but it had to be because they were totally cut off from their home for seven years. That’s why I think that Atlantis WAS character driven especially in season 1 when they were cut off from Earth. There was character development in seasons 2 and 3 but 4 was all plot driven. They had to move the story along with the Athosians, Michael, the Replicators and the Wraith. With all that having to be solved, it didn’t leave a lot of room for character development. Season 5 however is going great with Teyla and her dealing with being a mom, Woolsey stepping into new shoes…etc.

                            In terms of plausible reasons for doing what characters do…SGA has always had that. Sure getting rid of Carson and Elizabeth was kinda left field but the show is growing, changing…thing’s can’t be stagnant.

                            And in terms of the whole ‘it’s science fiction’ thing, I’ve come to the realization that TPTB of shows like to kill of characters to a) show that they can, and b) to stir up interest and c) to add shock value. I agree with you that TV shows should be about entertainment, but believe it or not a lot of people like watching characters get killed. It’s a staple of HEROES from what I understand. Characters came and went in BUFFY and ANGEL and those shows were/are amazing.
                            And you know what, people dying IS REALISM. People die all the time and it is a bit UNREALISTIC to think that in such a dangerous universe as the Pegasus Galaxy that NO ONE would die. Sure, I wish that it was the red shirts who died but no one else…but named characters have to go sometimes. It’s a fact of TV.

                            In terms of John grieving for Elizabeth he did plenty of that in ‘Adrift’ and ‘Lifeline’ and ‘This Mortal Coil’ plus in ‘This Mortal Coil’ the character was told that Elizabeth was dead. He was so grieved that he couldn’t pack her stuff away and as far as the cannon goes they didn’t have a romantic relationship so what we see grieving wise makes sense…especially since it’s not a serial/day by day show. Who knows how the character John would have grieved in his universe….we only see snippets of the characters, not their everyday lives. Just the stuff that makes for good TV.

                            As far as I’ve read, Elizabeth as a character wasn’t much loved. People saw her in the same capacity of Hammond and that was it. It’s only us Sparkies or the McWeirs or any other shipdom that shipped Elizabeth with someone that actually liked her, I’m sure that that’s not the entire viewing public. Only us crazies… ^_^

                            And I’d buy that Rodney and John were/ are the most popular. And I know that Elizabeth was the most popular female but all the writers are male so you know what that doesn’t mean much.

                            As for Woolsey, Anuna you’re all about character growth and Woolsey has grown as a character. Yes he was brought in as the enemy but he slowly has realized who’s side he’s on and in terms of the show it makes sense. Elizabeth was employed by the IOA but they always yanked control away from her when situations got tough. Samantha being the head of Atlantis makes sense with the increased threat of Michael, the other Wraith and the Replicators and once those threats were neutralized (or so they think) she could be replaced by someone that the International Oversight Association KNOWS will follow things by the book. The added character development of Woolsey comes from the fact that he knows he’s filling big shoes, he was a big fan of what Elizabeth did and he’s learning that the rules are guidelines to be followed when needed.

                            And if my views have changed, it’s because I’ve learnt to let it go. I sent my letters and whatnot to TPTB but it hasn’t made a lick of difference. Why should I go being bitter and ignore a show that still has characters that I like on it? Yes, Elizabeth was my favourite and the chemistry with John was what made it all worthwhile but there’s new chemistry between Teyla and Kenann and I’ve found new characters to love (Keller and Woolsey among my favourites of John, Teyla, Ronan and Rodney).

                            I can’t believe that you would give up watching a show based on ONE character.
                            Yes, I would give up on the show based on to what was done to:

                            a) ONE character

                            b) everything you counted above. There's no excuse for no character development and disrespect toward characters or deleting them from other characters memory. Everything cool going on right now doesn't pick my interest. I still like the other characters, but I don't like them enough to continue watching.

                            c) my ship of choice. Because in seasons 2 and 3 sparky was my biggest reason for watching. Simple as that.

                            And you don't need to remind me of all people that people dying is reality. Loosing a parent in a war kind of clues you in on that.
                            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                              Originally posted by Anjirika View Post
                              Anuna: I want them to bring Torri back too and they offered, but she turned them down. Whatever her reasons, and through interviews that have been posted here today I know what they are but the fact remains is that they turned them down.

                              And as for the river of denial, I thought that that wasn’t healthy for a person. You study psychology right? Am I wrong? Is denial good or is acceptance better?
                              You know what, that's it. You've done it. I don't study psychology. I have major in psychology or whatever you call it in English and I study psychotherapy currently. So please don't come and preach me about denial or acceptance or dealing with things. I've accepted things in my real life nobody should have happened. I won't count here, for the sake of thread but most people, including you, know what kind of sh*t I've been through. About that I'm not in denial. I've dealt with those in real life AND fiction I write.

                              But *****y fiction? Why should I accept that? If I like a book, I read it. If I don't like a book I don't bother to read it. Simple.
                              I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                                Originally posted by Anjirika View Post
                                NOTE This reply was about 5 pages long so I've split them up according to replies.


                                Scary Kitty: I know that TPTB screwed Torri over, but as I’ve said earlier the whole of show business is a transitory one. People are hired and fired for various reasons; trying to boost ratings, wanting to mix things up, problems with the actor…etc. In Torri’s case and ‘Ghost in the Machine’ the story that they pitched her may not have seemed so concrete and I can respect her decision for that but scripts do change and the story may have ended up more concrete after the rewrites and fan reaction to her being back for sure.

                                I know that she might have done well by her career, but Paul McGillion managed to shoot his small part in the Star Trek movie and still managed to work on how many episodes in season five, 5 was it? I believe that she could have moved on with her career and still made time for SGA. But that’s my personal opinion and I will follow Torri faithfully in whatever she does.

                                As to the Carl Binder comment, well it is kinda vague if you look at it but I’ve seen other interviews or something that talk about the replicator story continuing and I would assume that if the replicator story continues, then so will Elizabeth’s. But you’re right. Until we see ‘Ghost in the Machine’ we won’t know.

                                Wormhole: Why haven’t you been checking out the thread? I’m just curious…you used to post a lot back in the day
                                Same reason I’m avoiding all the other threads. Trying to avoid any spoilers relating to season five. I basically don’t want to know anything about it.
                                BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

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