Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[manybleemsago]

Anyway, the "visual paradox" is a neat point regarding Elizabeth. Just a touch of something 'soft' about her to offset her often hardass front. She is a soft touch deep inside. You can see it in her eyes.

BTW, Bleems I just love your handle. ; ) Reminds me of Mork and Mindy-that goofy little series I loved as a kid.

Nanu Nanu,

Bama ; )

I saw that visual paradox thing in Terminator 2 in the Sarah Connor character. I've been a sucker for it ever since.

Mork and Mindy - WOW that brings back memories. And since I'm 42, I watched it as a teenager. That's why I picked my handle...cuz I was born "many bleems ago".

Nanu Nanu, B.

[Bama]

Bleems,

You make a very good point in asking for validation of why the president originally chose Elizabeth over even a military commander. I would *assume* that those reasons had to do with her extraordinary people skills, her ability to reason through things and think logically in crisis and her ability to delegate responsibilities wisely and prudently. Those are three huge things I would look for in an administrative hire.

I thought you made a great point the other night about TPTB, having named a civilian over Atlantis, then did not have a clue how to continue to make the Weir character an intregal part of every story. She isn't an action hero that totes a gun or even an in the field scientist. So, it would seem the writers were stuck with a diplomat to write adventure stories for. No easy task.

From what bit I've seen of Season one, there haven't been enough reasons shown by the plotlines to validate the president's reasoning. However, it does appear that the writers are doing some fancy footwork to patch and change the Elizabeth Weir role a bit in Season 2. She is getting to use other skills she has off world (which will of course help with that validation you mention). I will be very interested to see how they go about getting her more involved and intregal to the stories.

Having watched since early on, how would YOU go about it?

Thanks-

Bama ; )

[Melyanna]

President Hayes was very clear about why he chose Elizabeth to head the SGC (which she did briefly, at the end of SG-1 Season 7 and the beginning of Season 8). He knew that eventually, and probably during his tenure, the Stargate would be disclosed, and his thought was that a civilian who had made a career out of peacekeeping would be more palatable to the American public than an Air Force general and veteran of Vietnam. She was selected because she had negotiated some of the most sensitive international situations over the past decade.

She went from that to managing the Antarctic research site (which was centered on an Ancient outpost discovered while she was in charge of the SGC) because the Antarctic treaty dictates that no country has sovereignty over the continent. As such, it became an international site, and she was an obvious choice for the administration of it. And then because the Atlantis expedition was going to be an international matter, it was a simple matter to pick her to run it.

It was supposed to be a peaceful exploratory mission. Her hardest problems were supposed to be making sure people worked together without fighting over microscopes. Instead, she was thrown into a military situation, and had to rise to the challenge. And what I love about the story is that she didn't do it immediately. She had to learn how to lead something she might have once lobbied against.

[Bama]

President Hayes was very clear about why he chose Elizabeth to head the SGC (which she did briefly, at the end of SG-1 Season 7 and the beginning of Season 8). He knew that eventually, and probably during his tenure, the Stargate would be disclosed, and his thought was that a civilian who had made a career out of peacekeeping would be more palatable to the American public than an Air Force general and veteran of Vietnam. She was selected because she had negotiated some of the most sensitive international situations over the past decade.

She went from that to managing the Antarctic research site (which was centered on an Ancient outpost discovered while she was in charge of the SGC) because the Antarctic treaty dictates that no country has sovereignty over the continent. As such, it became an international site, and she was an obvious choice for the administration of it. And then because the Atlantis expedition was going to be an international matter, it was a simple matter to pick her to run it.

It was supposed to be a peaceful exploratory mission. Her hardest problems were supposed to be making sure people worked together without fighting over microscopes. Instead, she was thrown into a military situation, and had to rise to the challenge. And what I love about the story is that she didn't do it immediately. She had to learn how to lead something she might have once lobbied against.

Now THERE is an angle. (Thank you BTW for the 'fill-in'.) Your last paragraph indicates that she indeed was not 'right' for what they actually encountered on Atlantis. You would think the president and his military commanders might have forseen that there could be problems of this sort and had a contingent plan in place. (Perhaps Caldwell WAS their contingent plan but Elizabeth's good handling and delgation impressed others enough that she was granted more time)

And now, she has to prove her 'worth' in a situation that she has never dealt with before. I would imagine she will have to continue to learn to think more militarily and take a lot of her cues from her head military commander as she continues to learn on the job. I can really see now why she would fight for someone she could implicitly TRUST in that position and she has that now in John.

At the same time, I would enjoy seeing more plotlines where her calm logic is at the fore and makes the difference over more militant thinking. There are really some neat angles the writers could take with this I'd think. Elizabeth is sort of like the U.N. president whereas John's mentality is more like the current allied forces in our real world. A middle of the road answer is usually the best compromise with sometimes a deviation one way or the other being neccassary.

The more I learn about this entire relationship and the entire 'Atlantis' powerstructure, the more fascinating I find it. And then you take all of this and plop personalities and personal feelings and growing tensions and sexual attractions in the middle of it and you've got yourself a gooey good dramatic mess on your hands. Handled with care, this entire series has a chance to really 'blow up' this year-in a good way.

-Bama ...who appreciates so much all of her new Atlantis board pals....

[SallyLizzie]

<snipped a whole lot of text as by the time i took to type it, Mel had already posted what i'd typed and stated it much more eloquently>

What i will add is that i think they had to have a civilian in charge for the same reasons that they needed a civilian to head the research facility in Antarctic - international politics. It's been shown on SG1 how some of the different countries leaders have problems with the only stargate being housed in USA and they have felt unfairly left out from something that affects the world on a whole. It's fair to say that the same would be felt if the greatest expedition to Earth was run by the US military, - the fear that they would be left out of the loop. Easy answer = place a civilan as head commander but make the 2IC a military adviser.

What I was looking for in the character was a vindication of the President's statement to her that he'd picked her *for a d**n good reason*

I think it has been vindicated really well whilst staying true to the newness and alieness of the situation. We have seen her professional negotiating side during New Order and Seige P2, Intruder. Just bc you need to have certain qualities to be a negotiate and broker deals successfully, doesn't mean that they are present all the time. It's easier to remain calm and collective when you have had time to research and plan, than when you have to make huge decisions on the spot and have your emotions in the foreground.

I had no problem in the way in which she delt with Kavanagh tbh. I think she acted accordingly in the research room, as it seemed he was wasting valuable time through stubborness, and for him to then waste more time in following her bc he was embarrassed is just plain selfishness and blindsightedness. He only had to wait, not even an hour, before the situation was resolved and then could have gone to confront her in the privacy of her office rather than trying to chew her out in the control room
infront of everybody.

She isn't an action hero that totes a gun or even an in the field scientist. So, it would seem the writers were stuck with a diplomat to write adventure stories for. No easy task.

Yet it came up in at the Burbank Con that Higginson disclosed that-during a long discussion with series co-creator Brad Wright-the latter stated that Dr. Weir "will never pick up a gun." , so they must be finding a way around that, rather than be stuck with a character that they don't know what to do with and therefore that character becoming stagnant. Introducing Caldwell to the mix could have alot to do with this, and i know that Torri had to undertake fight training

Spoiler:

i think we'll see this in The Long Goodbye where JM has stated that Torri will have the chance to kick some major butt

so it will be interesting to see where they take her and how far they are 'growing' her character from diplomat to maybe having more of a military streak in her.

[xkawaiix]

Yet it came up in at the Burbank Con that Higginson disclosed that-during a long discussion with series co-creator Brad Wright-the latter stated that Dr. Weir "will never pick up a gun." , so they must be finding a way around that, rather than be stuck with a character that they don't know what to do with and therefore that character becoming stagnant. Introducing Caldwell to the mix could have alot to do with this, and i know that Torri had to undertake fight training

Spoiler:

i think we'll see this in The Long Goodbye where JM has stated that Torri will have the chance to kick some major butt

so it will be interesting to see where they take her and how far they are 'growing' her character from diplomat to maybe having more of a military streak in her.

Hm... Weir! The butt-kicking linguist/diplomat/leader/civilian... Cool

[SallyLizzie]

Hm... Weir! The butt-kicking linguist/diplomat/leader/civilian... Cool

Dr. Elizabeth Weir. More uses than a Swiss Army knife
Buy one today and pick up your free mathmatical genius Airforce officer, bc you can't have one without the other.

[manybleemsago]

President Hayes was very clear about why he chose Elizabeth to head the SGC (which she did briefly, at the end of SG-1 Season 7 and the beginning of Season 8). He knew that eventually, and probably during his tenure, the Stargate would be disclosed, and his thought was that a civilian who had made a career out of peacekeeping would be more palatable to the American public than an Air Force general and veteran of Vietnam. She was selected because she had negotiated some of the most sensitive international situations over the past decade.

She went from that to managing the Antarctic research site (which was centered on an Ancient outpost discovered while she was in charge of the SGC) because the Antarctic treaty dictates that no country has sovereignty over the continent. As such, it became an international site, and she was an obvious choice for the administration of it. And then because the Atlantis expedition was going to be an international matter, it was a simple matter to pick her to run it.

It was supposed to be a peaceful exploratory mission. Her hardest problems were supposed to be making sure people worked together without fighting over microscopes. Instead, she was thrown into a military situation, and had to rise to the challenge. And what I love about the story is that she didn't do it immediately. She had to learn how to lead something she might have once lobbied against.

I love that last sentence.


The way I saw it, when President Hayes picked Weir he still had to take into account her ability to oversee a *military* operation on a day to day basis, and not just be a pretty face for the media or be able to negotiate with alien races when that rare necessity arose. In other words, he had to trust that she would be able to react as well as Hammond to an immediate, military threat. To put someone who has no facility for making such calls in such a sensitive post makes no sense to me.

It is hard for me to imagine that after years of fighting the goauld, that tptb of Earth would not anticipate a very similar threat happening on Atlantis and not setting up a contingent plan just in case. If Elizabeth is only a civilian figurehead or negotiator, she gets replaced immediately by a military based command until the threat is neutralized. But since she wasn't, it had to be because the President and his advisors see something in her capable of dealing with the situation to the advantage of Earth interests and of course the mission itself.

[Rubicon]

Along with the butt-kickage, I'd like to see EW speaking all the languages she knows. It would amuse me to no end watching her carrying on several conversations, in several lauguages, in person and on the ear-thingy.

She does speak multiple languages, right? I didnt make that up in my own head did I ?! ::nervous::

[SallyLizzie]

Your right. She speaks 5 languages and since that was stated in LC she has also learnt Ancient and Wraith (in written forn, not oral).

[FoolishPleasure]

Dr. Elizabeth Weir. More uses than a Swiss Army knife
Buy one today and pick up your free mathmatical genius Airforce officer, bc you can't have one without the other.

I haven't seen this at my local mall. Can I get it on-line?

*ROTFLOL*

[SallyLizzie]

Did you check by the mints?

Of course, Buy on-line and get 20% off!! P&P not inc, T&C apply

[astronomicalchick]

Guys, go and read this..

http://www.livejournal.com/users/myl...01.html#cutid1

Who needs canon, I say, who needs canon?

[SallyLizzie]

THanx for the link Astro. That was just.....fabulous!

[SGLAB]

Guys, go and read this..

http://www.livejournal.com/users/myl...01.html#cutid1

Who needs canon, I say, who needs canon?

Thanks astro. I needed that. I get the Stargate box sets at Best Buy an electronics, CD, DVD store and I was looking for Atlantis: Rising today, but couldn't find it. I think I may have looked in the wrong area of the store.