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    There is a second S/J thread? Where? What am I missing here?
    Last edited by jasminaGo; 06 May 2008, 03:52 AM.
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      Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
      if they can make a 2nd sam and jack thread why cant i make a 2nd sheppard and weir thread?
      Sorry for saying it, but this is a weird reason

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        So I tried to log on last night but it wouldn't let me! Guess it knew this would be long.

        Conversion

        Welcome to an episode I learned to appreciate. I have to admit, it took a while to grow on me because my mind wasn't in the right place. Basically, because we started the episode with this (and finished with it, in a way):


        Even seeing it like this in still frame makes me uncomfortable...

        We've been over this scene in discussion before, and I'm at the same place most people are--this scene made me uncomfortable. In general because John Sheppard doesn't do that kind of thing--which is what they were shooting for, I guess.

        Off the top what bothers me is that they sorta make a joke about it in the end--they resolve the episode with the 'apology', but Teyla turns it into something harmless. It's not really harmless...not that John would ever conceive of doing anything to her unless he were infected with evil bug DNA, but I don't think I'd be as nonchalant about the situation. *shrugs* I guess the fact the story is written by men (sorry, Sparky guys of the forum)...

        Anyways, on to the good stuff. Johnny's obviously not okay...and I like Elizabeth's understanding of his 'change' doesn't have to be over the top. She notices he's not quite right just by the way he talks. During the conference scene with Beckett, he doesn't have to go over the top--just his change in manner is enough. Also very Sparky? The fact that for all the arguing John does with Beckett about whether he's alright, Elizabeth doesn't even have to complete her sentence for him to not only understand where she's going, but to comply with it. Same mind, even with the bug DNA.

        BECKETT: Aye. [to Sheppard] You'll need to check in every six hours.
        SHEPPARD: [nods reluctantly] I can do that.
        WEIR: And you should probably ...
        SHEPPARD: ... suspend my off-world activities until we know more?
        WEIR: [with a gracious nod] Thank you.




        I'm going to include the Weir&Caldwell moments here because they reflect very much on the Sparky of the episode (and I really like them).

        Caldwell is trying his darndest to get in good with Weir...and I like these scenes because it shows how close he got. I think Elizabeth and Caldwell are rather similar in their personalities and mindset, but Caldwell relies firmly on his military background to handle situations whereas Weir is much more rooted in her civilian history. Where they come to conflict is when those two paths cross--and that's fun to watch in episodes like this. I think Mitch Pileggi really adds to the level of characterization in SGA, and actors like Torri rise to the challenge.


        According to the 'behind-the-scenes', the directors really did get frustrated with Torri because she played so much solitaire on those datapads. *grins*






        I LOVE him when he's trying to be cute!


        Calm before the storm...

        The bedside manner scenes is one of my favorites because it's so very personal. Not only because Elizabeth kinda freaks out a little at all of this, but because this whole scene is all about John knowing her mannerisms and personality.

        WEIR: OK, what's the plan?
        BECKETT: I've injected him with a viral inhibitor. It should slow down the retrovirus as far as his cognitive abilities are concerned, but I'm afraid that's it so far. We're exploring various treatments that may or may not be effective, so ...
        WEIR: [shaking her head vehemently] No, Carson, we don't have any time to explore. [gestures toward his computer] C'mon, there's *gotta* be something in the Ancient database that can help you find a treatment!
        BECKETT: I know, Elizabeth. We're doin' our best!
        [She stands up, looking away uncomfortably.]
        WEIR: I'm sorry, I know. Of course you are.


        SHEPPARD: Anything that has you speechless has me concerned.
        WEIR: [with a not-quite-smile] You're gonna be fine.
        SHEPPARD: Wow. That's dead man talk.
        WEIR: No, it isn't.




        WEIR: [shifting on her feet] We're gonna beat this.
        SHEPPARD: `We're gonna beat this'? `Beckett'll figure this *out*'? `You're gonna be *fine*'? You really suck at the whole bedside manner thing.
        WEIR: [looking away in embarrassment] I know, I'm sorry.
        SHEPPARD: But I appreciate the effort.
        I love how edgy Elizabeth is this entire episode. Even when she asks Caldwell to assume John's duties, all the friendliness and ease of the previous conversation has dissipated. And despite what he probably thought of as 'good terms', automatically his assuming John's duties has Elizabeth's back up. I love how Caldwell has it figured out, too. He's open about it--and so is Elizabeth! *sparky cheers*:

        CALDWELL: You two are pretty close, aren't you?
        WEIR: [Weir stops and turns back around, arms crossed.] Well, we've been through a lot together. Yes.
        CALDWELL: You've got the best team in two galaxies working on a way to get him back to normal. My money's on success. [She looks a little surprised, but reassured.] And if you need someone to talk to ...
        WEIR: [coolly] If you could assume those duties effective immediately?
        CALDWELL: I can do that.
        WEIR: [turning again to leave] Thank you.
        I enjoy this little brainstorming session with Weir, Lorne, Beckett and McKay. For one thing, it's nice to see they're aggressively thinking even when John isn't around, and it's also good to see even Lorne has become close (and comfortable enough) with everyone to engage in a semi-private conversation in a casual manner. I love the body language--Lorne on the desk, Elizabeth with her legs crossed, McKay sitting on his hands.



        More to come...
        Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
          http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/conversion2208.jpg
          Even seeing it like this in still frame makes me uncomfortable...

          We've been over this scene in discussion before, and I'm at the same place most people are--this scene made me uncomfortable. In general because John Sheppard doesn't do that kind of thing--which is what they were shooting for, I guess.
          .: From my perception that scene is supposed to make you uncomfortable - like you said, it's just something a normal John Sheppard wouldn't do, and this scene aptly shows that. I know some people consider the kiss "hot love" but we've all been through what I and most others think. I was shocked out of my mind when I saw him do that - somewhat unexpected and, yes, uncomforting for (me) the viewer. (Of course, I have my own suspicions about the writer's shippy attempts with that scene, but I'll let that go for now.)

          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
          I guess the fact the story is written by men (sorry, Sparky guys of the forum)...
          .: *waits for Pajus to make some comment along the lines of 'I didn't think that'*

          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
          Johnny's obviously not okay...and I like Elizabeth's understanding of his 'change' doesn't have to be over the top. She notices he's not quite right just by the way he talks. During the conference scene with Beckett, he doesn't have to go over the top--just his change in manner is enough.
          .: I like it that the first changes in Shep's behaviour were not of a violent type - I could see it, Elizabeth could see it, but if you aren't paying attention the subtle sickness afflicting Shep may pass by. I like the way in which it was escalated; the change in simple manner to begin with, odd vibes but nothing drastic or even violent.

          Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
          Caldwell is trying his darndest to get in good with Weir...and I like these scenes because it shows how close he got. I think Elizabeth and Caldwell are rather similar in their personalities and mindset, but Caldwell relies firmly on his military background to handle situations whereas Weir is much more rooted in her civilian history.

          http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ersion2272.jpg
          I LOVE him when he's trying to be cute!
          .: Caldwell got close - and he definately thought he got close - but Lizzie's no fool, obviously! When things all came down I think Caldwell had really underestimated her in terms of resistance to gullability and keeping her leadership steady as Shep came down with the buggyillness. Even as that happened, she wasn't just going to let Caldwell take the reigns, at least completely.

          .: I like the analysis and observation you made about Caldwell relying on his military expertise whereas Elizabeth relies on her diplomatic roots, yet they posess a very parallel persona. They have similar mindsets, but they are definately rooted differently from each other.

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            Part 2:

            All I can say from here on out is poor Elizabeth. Poor John, too, but Elizabeth is the one who has to balance her feelings and her position. Talk about dealing with your worse nightmare--someone you care about is progressively degenerating, and rather than being just a friend, it's the person you rely on for support and guidance. You have to treat him like a threat, yet how hard must that be?

            One of the things I love about how Torri plays Elizabeth is there is no absolute with her. She demonstrates a wide range of emotion, and eppies like these really show it. What is the natural reaction to seeing someone you know transforming into a mutant bug? Automatic disgust, perhaps, fear--and then you put on a brave face and deal with it, because it's someone you care about and you want them to feel they can come to you and be comfortable. That's portrayed very, very clearly without Torri having to say a word.

            WEIR: Should you be out of bed?
            SHEPPARD: I was goin' a little crazy down there, so they said I could walk around for a bit.
            WEIR: [softly] That's good. *stare*




            And yet...we also get the leader of Atlantis here, who can stand her ground in the face of frustration, emotion, and even a little danger. How much does Elizabeth trust John? Well, we see it all the time in the way they play off each other in episodes where they're both healthy, but I think the answer is perhaps best given in episodes like these. Even when he finally cracks, her instinct is not 'he's dangerous', it's 'protect him, he's not himself'. Rather than hold back when he smashes the window, she rushes forward, closer to him, to protect him from being shot.

            SHEPPARD: I should be with them!

            WEIR: No. I'm sorry.

            SHEPPARD: [takes a step back] What's the worst that can happen? I, I ... die?

            WEIR: You could compromise the mission. They have enough things to worry about ...

            SHEPPARD: [shaking his head and gesturing with his evil hand] Oh, no no ... so, what? Suddenly I'm a liability?

            WEIR: [firmly] Your condition can change rapidly.

            SHEPPARD: [raising voice] I *know*, and I know I can do this!

            WEIR: I'm glad ... you feel that way. But it would be irresponsible of me ...

            SHEPPARD: This is *my* life we're talking about.

            WEIR: I know that. [Another staredown.]

            SHEPPARD: I'm going on that mission.

            WEIR: [voice rising a bit] No, John! You're *not*.

            SHEPPARD: *DAMMIT!*





            I bet Joe had fun breaking the window.


            Elizabeth's decisive face...


            ...which John recognizes immediately.

            So we've got Elizabeth, tense, and worried--and just when Caldwell thought he might be able to establish a rapport with her, whoops! That darn militaristic thinking kicks in. I really do think this is probably the point at which Elizabeth gave up trying to be friendly with him. Given her behavior the rest of the series, it seems his actions here left a negative impression on her. His lack of respect towards John, who she obviously cares very much about, left her with a bitter taste in her mouth--and she's done trying to be friends with him. What she says at the end is true--don't cross her. No matter what Caldwell does after this, she sees him as a military ally and someone she has to deal with--but nothing more.



            *ultimate Sparky moment alert warning #1!!*

            We get two intimate scenes in "Conversion." Now, to play devil's advocate for a moment, well, obviously the only person left on base to comfort John is Elizabeth--and the only one who would enter his quarters to fill him in on the situation.

            Yet, there is something stronger here, too. This entire episode--as John progressively worsens--focuses on how it affects his relationship with Elizabeth. We get the few 'something's wrong' moments with Teyla and Ronan, but the rest of the episode is all Elizabeth and John. Either it was purposeful, it was easiest for exposition, or the writers just weren't thinking. I don't buy you couldn't throw in a Teyla or a Rodney scene. I think Elizabeth just fit as the one who should be with him. Talk about adding fuel to the Sparky fire. (And upping the ante--she looked great in those scenes!)

            In the first bedroom scene, we get to see John's concern for her, and everyone else, as he reaches the point where he knows he's losing control. Elizabeth's response is basically 'I know he's dangerous--but I'll take the risk':

            SHEPPARD: I need a bigger security detail.

            WEIR: Excuse me?

            [She walks right up to stand within touching distance. He keeps his face firmly averted. We can see the whole left side of his face, which looks perfectly normal.]

            SHEPPARD: At least two men, stationed at my door, sooner rather than later.

            WEIR:[looking very worried] Now, what are you talking about?

            SHEPPARD: [still rigidly faced away] Just trust me, Elizabeth.


            Such a great dynamic! I love how the interplay is between Elizabeth's determination to show him it doesn't matter to her--she still believes in him. And he knows she won't leave--I think a part of him knows he really has to scare her to protect her. *sigh*

            WEIR: You should be in the infirmary.

            SHEPPARD: The infirmary isn't secure. The inhibitor's only keeping me lucid, it's not slowing the retrovirus.

            WEIR: [firmly] Still ...

            [Sheppard leaps to his feet and gets right in her face. She doesn't flinch… much.]

            SHEPPARD: DON'T ARGUE WITH ME! I'm not safe to be around anymore.

            [There's more light on the right side of his face, now. The blue bruise color has gone Wraith-gray and quite ridgy, nearly up to his cheekbone.]

            SHEPPARD: Get some more men at my door and get the hell out of here.




            Conversion is one of those episodes where, for a brief moment, so many things go wrong you just might think they'll fail. Just for a moment.


            This scene creeped me out, so, kudos to the VFX and SFX guys.



            *ultimate Sparky moment alert warning #2!!*

            The second bedroom scene--I'm never actually sure how to feel about it, because there's a lot to take in. You know John's gone at this point--or he gives up, at least, because Elizabeth, the one who never gives up, has basically told him there's nothing that they can do. I do think a little of John's action--his bolting from the door, anyway--was a suicidal action, in the sense that he's lost hope and wants it ended.

            But when he says to her 'then kill me now'--that to me is a little reflective, again, of *SEASON 4 DISCUSSION ALERT*

            Spoiler:
            the scene in Adrift where he refuses to reactivate her nanites. This situation here is the ultimate nightmare for John. Half-replicator Elizabeth was her ultimate nightmare. He can make the call to not 'save her' because he knows she wouldn't have wanted it--just as she knows, here, he's serious about ending his life.






            But, good old Elizabeth, still holding out flickers of hope, perhaps, won't do it. And if anyone ever questioned her bravery, or whether she could have been a warrior, take a look at the scene here. Standing up in the face of danger, and putting her life on the line, but refusing to run or hide--or placate--because of it.

            Thankfully, John can see through the fog enough to realize what he's doing--and we get Sparky number 3. He can't kill her. He just can't. Whether it's because he sees her there before him, or he hears her, there's something in him that prevents him from doing anything to truly harm her.







            Final wrap up...
            Last edited by Eri13; 06 May 2008, 08:10 AM.
            Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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              Originally posted by Reiko View Post
              .: *waits for Pajus to make some comment along the lines of 'I didn't think that'*
              Why should I make comments like that? The episode was co-written by Gero, who is a pig even in my book. He wrote the horrible affront to physics and women that was Trio, so no feedback from me on that.

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                Originally posted by Pajus View Post
                Why should I make comments like that? The episode was co-written by Gero, who is a pig even in my book. He wrote the horrible affront to physics and women that was Trio, so no feedback from me on that.
                .: Like I said. You are *normal* Yep ... "How to turn good characters into sexual deviants" by Martin Gero

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                  Okay...at this point, Elizabeth's been scared, threatened and assaulted--but what is her response to Caldwell's orders about John?

                  CALDWELL: Alright. [He turns to the Marines.] Four teams. Surround him and close in. I want him stopped. And gentlemen – use whatever level force you deem necessary. Move out. [As the Marines start to head out, Weir turns to face them.]

                  WEIR: You will only use such force as a last resort.

                  CALDWELL: That's not Sheppard any more, ma'am.

                  WEIR: [to the Marines] You heard me.

                  Gotta love that woman.


                  I just thought this was a cool picture.

                  That's one of my favorite moments. Elizabeth is still Elizabeth, though everyone has told her there is nothing to be done, and she's even confessed to John it seems there's nothing they can do. There's a stubborn little part of her that refuses to give up; that refuses to see reality. And good for her. Had it been anyone else, John would have been dead at this point.

                  Which is probably why the scene in the commissary is one I really don't like. I hate to see her give up--and having to be the one to tell the others that there basically isn't hope left. Again, just for a moment, you think...is it possible? Did they fail?




                  Heart breaking. Literally!

                  When Beckett does offer that little spark of hope, I'm glad they have Elizabeth being reasonable about it--but she's also quick to take the chance. And how she talks to him in the infirmary, when he's brought out of the coma--I like that. She's treating him like normal--but I always get the impression she's trying to feed him some of that desperate hope she's holding on to.





                  Okay, I have to admit, too--the Jedi robe was a little silly. But Elizabeth is by his side, going as far as she can with him. That was cool, no matter what wardrobe he's wearing.



                  I did actually enjoy the final action scene, with John walking into the cave. The cave sequences were well done, and Joe was very convincing as someone pushed to the edge of humanity. I know I've spent a lot of time talking about Elizabeth, but Joe did a great job, too, of showing Sheppard's downward spiral.



                  My only gripe about this episode are the final scenes. I think they should have been done a bit differently. I like the fact that Weir wraps up the whole confrontation with Caldwell--and basically lets him know it's all business from here on out:


                  Despite what you might think of my intentions, Doctor Weir, I'm not your enemy.


                  Weir *thinking* TOO LATE. *speaking*: Believe me, Colonel, you don't wanna be.

                  But I hate they don't have a John/Elizabeth scene--probably in her office, where you could have had a humorous reference to the window being broken. Instead, we get a humorous wrap up to that Teyla/John scene. For me, it felt a bit plugged in. I don't mind it's there--again, I'm not anti-ship anything--but my take on this would not have been for Teyla to mock him by calling him "John". As a woman, I would have been wondering what it all meant--and still been uncomfortable. He's your CO--what do you do now that he's all better?



                  Still, overall "Conversion" is a good episode, and has some really great moments in it. I enjoy seeing eppies where the leaders are put in danger, because we tend to get really great scenes with the other main characters. And we got those, particularly with Elizabeth. And we got some really nice Sparky, too, which is always a plus!
                  Last edited by Eri13; 06 May 2008, 08:59 AM.
                  Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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                    Originally posted by Reiko View Post
                    .: Like I said. You are *normal* Yep ... "How to turn good characters into sexual deviants" by Martin Gero
                    That's one of the two entries I have in the Stinky book mix

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                      My last post on the forum.

                      An Eye for an Eye Final Chapter.
                      Last edited by Wormhole; 06 May 2008, 12:59 PM.
                      BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

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                        Originally posted by Wormhole View Post
                        My last post on the forum.

                        An Eye for an Eye Final Chapter.
                        Uh, Wormhole, you'd better check your link again, because it sure doesn't go to your story!
                        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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                          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                          Uh, Wormhole, you'd better check your link again, because it sure doesn't go to your story!
                          lol ta try now above... that was a good exit . Don't get any idea's people .
                          BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

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                            Yay, it works! And it's a marvelous story!

                            In other news: After an annoying technical glitch that kept subscribers from downloading for a few days, the SGA audio drama narrated by Torri Higginson is now available. Those of you who have purchased the CD directly through Big Finish should be able to access it through your account on the BF website.

                            I'm listening to it now... there was a bit of fun with Weir's amused commentary on Sheppard early on... hee!
                            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                            Comment


                              Hey guys, dropping of a fic recommendation. I found it the other day and it's bloody brilliant and TOTALLY sparky-licious. It's called Awake Before Rising and you ALL should totally read it. It's a jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring, breathtaking-wow story that totally pulls at the heart-strings like our dear Anuna's The Secret Marriage. So check it out! And prepare to fall in love with our dear sparky all over again.

                              Night gang!
                              sigpic
                              Being a shipper, is the only way to be.
                              |My Fanfics|My Fanart|My Orig. Stories|

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                                oh yeah. i think i forgot to post my new walli in here
                                some of you might have seen it already but still...

                                spoiler for size

                                Spoiler:

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