Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Eri13]

Maybe I should make myself clear: You guys have just shown a lot of promise. You still have to work on it, but you're definitely on the right track.

Spoilers for off-topic:

Spoiler:

Of course, as a Razzie shipper, I have different standards when it comes to smut: Here, here, here and here are some specific examples

As to the concept of chaining: When one makes a smutty screencap and another has an idea how to improve it, do it. The most basic rule of chaining is that you are not allowed to change the original screencap. You are allowed to add to it.

Example is once again spoilered for being Razzie instear of Sparky

Spoiler:

and can be found in the lower half of this page

That's really funny! I can do smut when I'm in the mood--which usually involves wrapping up a long day--I shall keep chaining in mind when my good friend Anuna and I are both being particularly smutty.

Have you guys seen these? They are gorgeous!

I CAN'T SEE THEM! SOMEONE DESCRIBE! *flails*

[Eri13]

Okay...Condemned

I want to give this eppy two days discussion as well because I think it presents one of the more interesting questions about the actions of the people of Atlantis. At the end of this episode, the Atlantis personnel allow the prisoners of the world to escape to a safe haven--while condemning the people of the mainland to Wraith attack. Was this a right action?

More after the recap!

Condemned is one of those episodes it seems everyone forgets about, and why that is, I don't know. I would consider it is one of the best Elizabeth episodes out there in terms of her character, because it's one of the few in which she functions as a diplomatic head off-world. And she's kick butt in her position, too.

I like the stylings of Olesia, in particular the way the organized society is set up, because it's a little different than others we've seen. Everything else, minus the 'hidden' nature of the Genii, has been rather rustic.

We also get to see Ronon for the first time as a member of SGA-1, and they've chosen to portray his role in an interesting manner. You might expect him to be one of those characters Sheppard has to always keep in line--in truth, he might have been more interesting that way--but he's not. He falls into the fold rather easily--perhaps because of his past.



The little exchange between Elizabeth, Rodney and John (who knew the radio signals carried that far?) is interesting because of the revelation to Elizabeth of Prison Island. This sorta begins the debate about the rights of the people of the planet.



The prisoners were an interesting contrast to the mainland, though a bit cliched. I've never been a fan of the guy who frustratingly refuses to listen to reason, though the twist here was, of course, that Rodney could do what was being requested. (So much for Rodney not being able to lie, huh? I don't think we've seen him caught in a poor lie, despite his protestations to the contrary in "The Eye").


Offside Spanky note--who does Teyla look for and worry about first after the crash? HRM. Never mind John's conked out across the driver's side dashboard. RONON'S HURT!






I never really understood Eldon. They didn't really explain his 'innocence', he got a lot of screen time and then *poof* was gone and never appeared again. I don't know if he was intended to be fleshed out more or not...

Love that we get to see Major Lorne again so soon. He gets all the good jobs. Here he gets to serve as bodyguard and escort to the Head of the Expedition. Nervous, Evan?


Not only is she the Head, she's also lookin' pretty good right now. Poor boy.


Stealin' hearts one Major at a time.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE how Elizabeth handles herself here. When I went back and watched her negotiating style in the SG-1 episodes where she was introduced (as Torri) I was surprised she was a little less tough with the Goa'uld. Here, it's easy to see why she was appointed head of the Atlantis expedition. I was a little surprised, actually--I've seen her be tough with her team members and the military, but this is the first time her ability to represent Atlantis to another culture is really applied, and she's a tough cookie to deal with.


Dude behind her shows up again a little later--he's gotta be like 'my boss is pretty cool.'



It seems Sheppard can turn anything into a funny scenario, even with lives on the line. How he sets this up, and the small snippet of him failing to make appropriate Banto sticks is great!



And...was the Wraith eating steak really necessary?



Part II coming up...

[Pajus]

That's really funny! I can do smut when I'm in the mood--which usually involves wrapping up a long day--I shall keep chaining in mind when my good friend Anuna and I are both being particularly smutty.

Don't chain in your mind. Share it with others. You can never know, who else will be able to chain on your thought, making it all the more funny

[Eri13]

The confrontation scene always makes me smile. Not just Elizabeth's resolve in dealing with the Olesians, but her ability to stare them in the face of their threats without fear. Perhaps it's because this culture has some kind of urbanized civilization to speak of, but she talks to their leader as though she's not intimidated by anything. She has faith in her guardsman--and her own ability to direct the situation. I suppose facing down Wraith armadas, Genii ambushes and desperate nuclear warhead negotiations helps with that, but either way, she's pretty damn cool. *waves Weir flag*

WEIR: Well, this alliance? It's just been rescinded.

(*dies of squee*)




Told ya he'd show up again.


FEAR. THE. WEIR! Anyone who questions Torri's talent--she's acting with nothing but her eyes--her expression! WOW!


Sorry, man. You have some nerve, but Kolya you ain't.

The special effects in this episode were pretty cool too--I thought some of the action shots--like the jumper flying in and out of the gate in profile, and the attack of the Wraith cruiser--were impressive.





And, we have a really good Sparky moment at the end. The reason Elizabeth has gone off world in the first place is because of John and his team. So when they cross paths, it's a great scene.

Elizabeth's all relief--and John's all worry.

SHEPPARD: Elizabeth? I need you to keep the Gate open until the last of them go through, then shut it down and dial Atlantis.

WEIR: We can land and pick you up.

SHEPPARD: Negative. Just keep the Gate open. We'll take it from there. Stay in stealth mode until the Wraith have gone away.

WEIR: Acknowledged.

Love his concern here. My interpretation? Part of the reason he doesn't want them to land is out of worry for her safety.

Okay...and now the debate.

Elizabeth and John both play a part in the decision to allow the prisoners off the Prison Island. Which, in turn, destroys the Wraith alliance with the Olesian government.

Was that really their decision to make? Yes, of course it's being merciful to the prisoners, but it did, in fact, condemn innocent citizens not caught up in the governmental and judicial decisions to death. Are all citizens at the mercy of the decisions of their elected (or unelected leaders)? Was it just that they will now suffer, while proclaimed murders like Torrell get to run free?

Did Elizabeth and John have a choice, or were they strong-armed into the decision to let these prisoners go?

I think this episode is one of the more interesting conundrums of the SGA saga. Were the actions of the Atlantis members weak or strong? Just or unjust? Did they choose the correct group to save, and the correct group to sacrifice?

Or did their actions really interfere that much at all?

[Ice Wolf]

Jor thinks Page 3 just wont do

What is with John and Elizabeth picking up stray's in S2, first Ronon, now Eldon (poor puppy never got seen again, I hope John didn't accidentally back over him with a Jumper)?

[Stef]

A new SGA SHIP PICTURE GAME (FIRST TO 50) I thought I'd bring to people's attention

-Stef

[gateraid]

John: Elizabeth, this isn't really a good time for a booty call

[gateraid]

Spoiler:

If I hold it for just a bit longer I'll be able to pretend it's the sound of a branch breaking

[Ice Wolf]

John: Elizabeth, this isn't really a good time for a booty call

Elizabeth: That's what you always say.

[johnliz4ever]

Have you guys seen these? They are gorgeous!

Those are fantastic. Some of the best I've seen.

[Wormhole]

For those still interested in it. The next two chapters for A Moment in Time - Paradise Lost is up. Don't forget to review.

[Eri13]

We need more people discussing, y'all! What do we need to do to keep the thread on Page 1?

[Scary Kitty]

So, "Condemned." Glad this one got held over for an extra day, as I was in and out too much yesterday to sit down and write up some good comments.

Condemned is one of those episodes it seems everyone forgets about, and why that is, I don't know. I would consider it is one of the best Elizabeth episodes out there in terms of her character, because it's one of the few in which she functions as a diplomatic head off-world. And she's kick butt in her position, too.

I loved seeing that, and I wish we could've seen more of this in more episodes, too. It's always awesome to see Elizabeth go off-world and see her put her mad diplomat/linguist skillz to work. It's why she's such a fantastic character. She's always been cool, but it's rare episodes like this that show us just how cool she can be.

I like the stylings of Olesia, in particular the way the organized society is set up, because it's a little different than others we've seen. Everything else, minus the 'hidden' nature of the Genii, has been rather rustic.

It's really an interesting contrast, seeing all of these societies that appear to be at a medieval/early Renaissance level of technology (with some minor anachronisms here and there, like Teyla's firestarter), and then seeing more advanced societies, like Olesia, the Genii, Hoff, or Sateda before it was culled. Really gives the audience a sense of just how much of an impact that repeated cullings by the Wraith have had on development on these worlds.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned4437.jpg
Offside Spanky note--who does Teyla look for and worry about first after the crash? HRM. Never mind John's conked out across the driver's side dashboard. RONON'S HURT!

Love that we get to see Major Lorne again so soon. He gets all the good jobs. Here he gets to serve as bodyguard and escort to the Head of the Expedition. Nervous, Evan?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned5042.jpg
Not only is she the Head, she's also lookin' pretty good right now. Poor boy.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned5047.jpg
Stealin' hearts one Major at a time.

Hee! She's the Queen, gathering her harem!

It seems Sheppard can turn anything into a funny scenario, even with lives on the line. How he sets this up, and the small snippet of him failing to make appropriate Banto sticks is great!

I thought that was a little annoying though; he's shown that he's got great commando skillz in The Storm/The Eye, yet he can't even make some banto rods? WTF?

And...was the Wraith eating steak really necessary?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned6091.jpg

In retrospect, that could've been a bit of set-up for the revelations about Wraith development in "Instinct," namely, that Wraith young get sustenance by eating like we do, but then switch over to life-sucking in adolescence.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE how Elizabeth handles herself here. When I went back and watched her negotiating style in the SG-1 episodes where she was introduced (as Torri) I was surprised she was a little less tough with the Goa'uld. Here, it's easy to see why she was appointed head of the Atlantis expedition. I was a little surprised, actually--I've seen her be tough with her team members and the military, but this is the first time her ability to represent Atlantis to another culture is really applied, and she's a tough cookie to deal with.

The confrontation scene always makes me smile. Not just Elizabeth's resolve in dealing with the Olesians, but her ability to stare them in the face of their threats without fear. Perhaps it's because this culture has some kind of urbanized civilization to speak of, but she talks to their leader as though she's not intimidated by anything. She has faith in her guardsman--and her own ability to direct the situation. I suppose facing down Wraith armadas, Genii ambushes and desperate nuclear warhead negotiations helps with that, but either way, she's pretty damn cool. *waves Weir flag*

Seriously, for all that this episode seems on the surface like a "team in jeopardy" story, it's got a very strong plot for Elizabeth as well. But that shouldn't be a surprise. It was written by, you guessed it... Carl Binder.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned6449.jpg
FEAR. THE. WEIR! Anyone who questions Torri's talent--she's acting with nothing but her eyes--her expression! WOW!

I think Weir fans have just found a new sig phrase!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned6450.jpg
Sorry, man. You have some nerve, but Kolya you ain't.

Kolya would have fed that guy to the Wraith!

And, we have a really good Sparky moment at the end. The reason Elizabeth has gone off world in the first place is because of John and his team. So when they cross paths, it's a great scene.

Elizabeth's all relief--and John's all worry.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned7015.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...demned7017.jpg
Love his concern here. My interpretation? Part of the reason he doesn't want them to land is out of worry for her safety.

Yup. Priority One is to Protect Elizabeth At All Costs.

Okay...and now the debate.

Elizabeth and John both play a part in the decision to allow the prisoners off the Prison Island. Which, in turn, destroys the Wraith alliance with the Olesian government.

Was that really their decision to make? Yes, of course it's being merciful to the prisoners, but it did, in fact, condemn innocent citizens not caught up in the governmental and judicial decisions to death. Are all citizens at the mercy of the decisions of their elected (or unelected leaders)? Was it just that they will now suffer, while proclaimed murders like Torrell get to run free?

Did Elizabeth and John have a choice, or were they strong-armed into the decision to let these prisoners go?

I think this episode is one of the more interesting conundrums of the SGA saga. Were the actions of the Atlantis members weak or strong? Just or unjust? Did they choose the correct group to save, and the correct group to sacrifice?

Or did their actions really interfere that much at all?

It annoys me a bit that the questions were just left hanging at the end with no real answer, and no scenes of them mulling over their decisions, like we saw in episodes like "Critical Mass" or "Michael."

Ultimately, I think if Atlantis had never made contact with Olesia, the planet probably would've eventually met the same fate, or gone down in flames of revolution against their out-of-control government without the Wraith or anyone else having to lift a finger.

[M-CharmedAlantian]

Hi I'm new here and I support Sparky!!!

[Pocus]

Hi I'm new here and I support Sparky!!!

Welcome to the Sparky thread. Have some mints. Just brush the dust off.