Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[atlantis_babe34]

*half rasies hand*

[AnnaBee]

The final part of the new ren fic is up

Title: Precipice (3/3)
Authors: angelqueen04, melyanna, and miera_c
Rating: PG
Summary: Elizabeth's visit to Neill yields some surprises for Laura, Kate, and herself.

{Precipice}

Anyone else feeling the urge to smack Kate and Marcus around the head?

[nogigglingmajor]

Hmm...Amelia Sheppard has a nice ring to it, so does Amanda Sheppard...I like Amelia

[Ice Wolf]

Anyone else feeling the urge to smack Kate and Marcus around the head?

lol yep. Perfect match right there as stubborn and pig-headed as each other lol. They are their own worst enemies lol.

Can't wait for John and Elizabeth to finally get another scene togetherl.

[Anuna]

That was a great analysis, Eri! I loved this episode too for many reasons. This comes a s a first more serious test of Elizabeth's command and her authority, and I love the way she handled John - in midst of crisis we could notice how hurt she was when he disobeyed her and overruled her authority (which, in given situation wasn't a very moral - lifting message to the expedition members). Yet, she kept her cool when it came to decisions she had to make. Eri pointed out nicely how well she balanced the treatment of different people involved in the rescue operation, making sure she was supportive of those who needed it; while putting John in place at the same time.

I think she sent out a great message with the way she handled the situation- what John did to her was not only against the rules, but humanly humiliating. I was very pissed at him when I watched this for the first time. But the way she behaved spoke of her undeniable leadership and diplomatic skills - she was focused, calm, collected and doing her job the best way possible even after Sheppard pulled his little number on her. Imagine how much she grew in eyes of most expedition members - I bet the scientists were in awe of her, and it's pretty certain to say that some of the military respected her too.

Oh Bates. How I'd love to smack that guy over the head sometimes. He was the perfect annoying addition to the whole mess, a kind of soldier John isn't and I'm so glad about that.

This episode leaves a lot room for discussion. Who is a better commander in a situation like this one - a man or a woman? Who was right here - John or Elizabeth? As much as I absolutely hated how he behaved I am also glad he was included in the whole thing, because he did contribute to reaching the solution. Then again, he messed things up too. The moment when John orders Bates to open the door is such powerful man vs woman moment - and at the end John has to "relinquish" his victory over his feminine boss. he is too honest and too caring to simply disregard what she asks him to do - to trust her. Yes, nobody else treated him this way - and Elizabeth is well aware that commanding Atlantis and dealing with everything that Pegasus galaxy is able to throw at them requires joined leadership, and them to act like a team; and not to clash heads.

In John's defense I'd like to add that everything he did, he did in right mind and right heart. He didn't want to be the hero, and I also believe it wasn't his intention to humiliate Elizabeth, but to help. Sitting on his hands (lol the mutated hands quote from Conversion!!) is the worst thing for him. he is about protecting the people entrusted to his care and that includes Elizabeth too.

This was a great episode - with plot A and B which were connected, tension, action, a puzzle to solve, and lots and lots of characterization. This is also the episode where I absolutely LOVE Rodney - he proved himself as a hero here and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Again, season 1 episodes were so great... what happened to SGA?!!!

[Southern Red]

That was a great analysis, Eri! I loved this episode too for many reasons. This comes a s a first more serious test of Elizabeth's command and her authority, and I love the way she handled John - in midst of crisis we could notice how hurt she was when he disobeyed her and overruled her authority (which, in given situation wasn't a very moral - lifting message to the expedition members). Yet, she kept her cool when it came to decisions she had to make. Eri pointed out nicely how well she balanced the treatment of different people involved in the rescue operation, making sure she was supportive of those who needed it; while putting John in place at the same time.

I think she sent out a great message with the way she handled the situation- what John did to her was not only against the rules, but humanly humiliating. I was very pissed at him when I watched this for the first time. But the way she behaved spoke of her undeniable leadership and diplomatic skills - she was focused, calm, collected and doing her job the best way possible even after Sheppard pulled his little number on her. Imagine how much she grew in eyes of most expedition members - I bet the scientists were in awe of her, and it's pretty certain to say that some of the military respected her too.

Oh Bates. How I'd love to smack that guy over the head sometimes. He was the perfect annoying addition to the whole mess, a kind of soldier John isn't and I'm so glad about that.

This episode leaves a lot room for discussion. Who is a better commander in a situation like this one - a man or a woman? Who was right here - John or Elizabeth? As much as I absolutely hated how he behaved I am also glad he was included in the whole thing, because he did contribute to reaching the solution. Then again, he messed things up too. The moment when John orders Bates to open the door is such powerful man vs woman moment - and at the end John has to "relinquish" his victory over his feminine boss. he is too honest and too caring to simply disregard what she asks him to do - to trust her. Yes, nobody else treated him this way - and Elizabeth is well aware that commanding Atlantis and dealing with everything that Pegasus galaxy is able to throw at them requires joined leadership, and them to act like a team; and not to clash heads.

In John's defense I'd like to add that everything he did, he did in right mind and right heart. He didn't want to be the hero, and I also believe it wasn't his intention to humiliate Elizabeth, but to help. Sitting on his hands (lol the mutated hands quote from Conversion!!) is the worst thing for him. he is about protecting the people entrusted to his care and that includes Elizabeth too.

This was a great episode - with plot A and B which were connected, tension, action, a puzzle to solve, and lots and lots of characterization. This is also the episode where I absolutely LOVE Rodney - he proved himself as a hero here and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Again, season 1 episodes were so great... what happened to SGA?!!!

Oh no, it's finally happened. I have to partially disagree with my buddy Anuna. First the good stuff. ITA that Elizabeth was a good leader here. She wanted to first of all protect her people, especially John because she didn't think the expedition could function without him. This was the same kind of thinking she displayed as old Elizabeth and in S4

Spoiler:

which ultimately got her killed. Both times.

So yay, for that little bit of continuity.

But, I don't think what John did was against the rules per se. It was a matter of interpretation of his position. He thought that this was a military situation since it involved the safety of the whole city and acted accordingly. What he did wrong was to disregard his own safety. Oh John! He should have stayed put and let Bates handle it. Maybe he couldn't bear the idea of being trapped with Teyla for much longer. Bates here did the correct thing. John was his commanding officer and his order would supercede any order from Weir because she is not military. I always liked Bates. He is very squared away and was correct a number of times in his assessment of situations, like with the Athosians and Teyla. People don't like him because he's a bit abrasive, but he got the job done. He also seemed to respect Elizabeth.

Also I think the situation first became personal when John called her Elizabeth. I'll have to listen again, but I think their tone of voice changes also to become more intimate. It stops being about the city and starts being about them, going back to the convo in Home. IMHO it didn't have anything to do with them being male and female until this point. John has always been quick to step in and take over a situation, sometimes to his detriment, but that's part of his characterization. Elizabeth was disappointed in him because she thought they had gotten past the point they were at in Rising. She still didn't think he trusted her by the end of this and by his tone of voice when he said "I do" I'm not sure he did. *shakes fist at Carson and Rodney* But again, it had nothing to do with their personal relationship. I even think at least with John, there is Elizabeth and there is Dr. Weir.At this point in his own mind he's having trouble with both of them and I think chooses to just ignore the Elizabeth part once everything is back to normal.

So, see, only a partial disagreement.

[Anuna]

Oh no, it's finally happened. I have to partially disagree with my buddy Anuna. First the good stuff. ITA that Elizabeth was a good leader here. She wanted to first of all protect her people, especially John because she didn't think the expedition could function without him. This was the same kind of thinking she displayed as old Elizabeth and in S4

Spoiler:

which ultimately got her killed. Both times.

So yay, for that little bit of continuity.

But, I don't think what John did was against the rules per se. It was a matter of interpretation of his position. He thought that this was a military situation since it involved the safety of the whole city and acted accordingly. What he did wrong was to disregard his own safety. Oh John! He should have stayed put and let Bates handle it. Maybe he couldn't bear the idea of being trapped with Teyla for much longer. Bates here did the correct thing. John was his commanding officer and his order would supercede any order from Weir because she is not military. I always liked Bates. He is very squared away and was correct a number of times in his assessment of situations, like with the Athosians and Teyla. People don't like him because he's a bit abrasive, but he got the job done. He also seemed to respect Elizabeth.

Also I think the situation first became personal when John called her Elizabeth. I'll have to listen again, but I think their tone of voice changes also to become more intimate. It stops being about the city and starts being about them, going back to the convo in Home. IMHO it didn't have anything to do with them being male and female until this point. John has always been quick to step in and take over a situation, sometimes to his detriment, but that's part of his characterization. Elizabeth was disappointed in him because she thought they had gotten past the point they were at in Rising. She still didn't think he trusted her by the end of this and by his tone of voice when he said "I do" I'm not sure he did. *shakes fist at Carson and Rodney* But again, it had nothing to do with their personal relationship. I even think at least with John, there is Elizabeth and there is Dr. Weir.At this point in his own mind he's having trouble with both of them and I think chooses to just ignore the Elizabeth part once everything is back to normal.

So, see, only a partial disagreement.

What you call disagreement I call widening my horizons (older and wiser effect? *runs like hell*) Good points! I love when you cut situations apart like this. Their relationship was so interesting during S1 and I believe Hot Zone was some kind of breaking point for both. It was "either we are a team and trust each other or not", and if we conveniently ignore the episode that follows (Sanctuary? What Sanctuary? I don't remember that) what we see next between them is an amazing level of very personal support (Before I sleep), and from there their relationship (mostly the professional part of it, but the shipper in me stubbornly says there is more to it, hee) becomes only stronger. I like how the issue of trust was left hanging in the air and I like to imagine John did something to prove he does trust her. We need fic prompts!

The beauty of rules is that you can interpret them in different way so I guess I agree with you. From her point of view he did break them and stepped over the line when he overruled her decision. I wonder was he thinking about how his actions will look after everything settles down and what kind of consequences to Elizabeth's position as a leader his behavior could have had.

Good point on personal issues. This convo could yield lots of fanfics!

Now excuse me I have smut to write.

PS:

Spoiler:

Elizabeth's dead? When did she die? i didn't see that. season 4 - canon, what's canon?

PPS: I'm enjoying this sparky revival we're having! Woooooohooooooo!

[SGLAB]

Hello the thread. Been awhile since I've posted in here. I just wanted to share what I've been doing the last couple of days with you guys. I'm new to the icon making, but I've been having lots of fun with it. Here are two SW ones I made.

[Eri13]

Nice! I am really enjoying these day-by-day episode talks. It's fun to look at the pictures and great to hear everyone's thoughts.

Bates here did the correct thing. John was his commanding officer and his order would supercede any order from Weir because she is not military. I always liked Bates. He is very squared away and was correct a number of times in his assessment of situations, like with the Athosians and Teyla. People don't like him because he's a bit abrasive, but he got the job done. He also seemed to respect Elizabeth.

I actually liked Bates in the same way I liked Kavanaugh--unlike Rodney, whose arrogance is a front which the writers contrive to give him 'depth'--and easily seen through--those two characters are antagonists. Not 'enemies', antagonists--meaning they are the negative to the positive of the heroes. And as such, they actually DO add depth to the storyline.

I like that Bates was aggressive about his military role. I like the challenges he presents to Elizabeth and John, and to Teyla. His role in "The Gift" is one of my favorites. His staunchness was a holdover from the Sumner squad, and I think they needed it.

I love he's the vehicle for John's betrayal. He does hesitate a little bit, too, and he IS caught between a rock and a hard place. If he disobeys John in favor of Weir, he IS disobeying a superior. But I get the sense he felt this should have been a military situation, which is why his apology sounds half-hearted.



In all, I wish they'd had a Bates character around more. They needed more antagonists, and they didn't get many more after Siege II.

I like to imagine John did something to prove he does trust her. We need fic prompts!

For me, that moment comes in Siege II, when he brings Elizabeth into the loop after she's essentially been told by General Gray Hair that the situation is military and they don't need her help. John defies that objective and requests she be included. That, to her, and to me, was his ultimate show of trust.

I wonder was he thinking about how his actions will look after everything settles down and what kind of consequences to Elizabeth's position as a leader his behavior could have had.

I don't think he thought about it, to be honest! I don't see John putting much pre-planning into his actions--just learning to deal with the consequences. As a result, I do think he was more careful in handling her judgments...and it seems to show in the later episodes. Considering, after all, he never argues like this with her again.

Who is a better commander in a situation like this one - a man or a woman? Who was right here - John or Elizabeth?

I love that the story never really answers those questions. Even better, who should be in charge of Atlantis--civilian or military? I've often thought that, after "The Siege", regardless of the trickery there is no way in the real world Atlantis would remain civilian. But Elizabeth did a good job in the three years she was there, and though mistakes were made (I love, love, love that mistakes were made--makes the situation closer to real life) in the end overall she did a good job.

But in this case, I think Elizabeth's judgment and skills win this round. Again, she was maintaining control of the entire situation--commanding the quarantine, calming the people trapped, figuring out how to deal with Peterson, soothing Rodney and the scientists who were threatened, and dealing with John. She kicked butt in this episode.

[Anuna]

She kicked butt, period! All the mistakes she made make her my favorite character because she has depth. She seems very realistic, trying to do the best she can and asking for other's help when it was needed.

One of the reasons why Siege is the best season finale for Atlantis is the fact that the circle was closed when John insisted Elizabeth should be kept in the loop. It shows just how much he appreciates her and respects her as his direct superior (aka he knows who is smarter and it ain't him.)

Military or civilian? I'm gonna vote civilian leadership, and it has to do with my general view of this world and the messages science fiction could/should send. I'm very tired of go and shoot 'em out of the sky shows where military is glorified. In my opinion Elizabeth raised this whole thing to a new, beautiful level, seeking better answers, better solutions. I'm for a better world and Elizabeth is a symbol of that world and values it holds.

Anyway a vid rec: Hallelujah by lone_pyramid - song by Rufus Wainwright. Amazing. Hankie warning!

[sofie]

aw cool pic!!
It just screams leadership

[Anuna]

OMG Sofie!!!! 1 more post to 1 000!!!!!

[sofie]

1000!!!!!

Champagne for everyone!!!

[Celcool]

The cyber champagne is delicious. Green! On topic: loving the sparky episode discussions guys.

[Ice Wolf]

1000!!!!!

Champagne for everyone!!!

Grats on 1000 posts