Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Easter Lily]

I'm as shocked as you guys are! At first when I saw the mods I thought we did something wrong. Yes, I'm paranoid like that. LOL

But the Mods have been lured to the dark side. Must mean something.

And Congrats on First Prime FoolishPleasure!

I was worried... thought a ship war started without me!

It does, however, demonstrate that sometimes a hug is not just a hug...

[xkawaiix]

Umm... what's a mod?

[Major Fischer]

Umm... what's a mod?

Mod=Moderator

[SamCarterONeill]

Well, Feli said a review of last season would be helpful, so here I go.

I should preface this by saying that I, like so many of you, am a disgruntled Sam/Jack shipper. (Really, we need a sign.) The first episodes I saw in succession were the major ship episodes in Season 4, and I naïvely assumed that it had been properly developed. I was so fed up with how Sam/Jack had been treated by SG-1 Season 7 that I was totally prepared to go noromo for Atlantis. "Rising" was, to me, an obvious holdover from when they'd originally planned to be shippy and had wisely decided against it. Wisely, in my view, because the interaction between Sheppard and Teyla seemed very forced and contrived. Imagine my surprise when it was revealed in "Suspicion" that Sheppard finding the necklace and giving it back to Teyla was an actual plot point...

Why thank you! You're a darling! That was wonderful!

((on a slightly off-topic note: there's nothing like a disgruntled sam/jack shipper! ))

[xkawaiix]

Yeah, I liked Sg1 season 4. One of my favorites.

[LadyF]

Melyanna, that was a great review of season one. Thank you. I cannot wait now for the DVD to come out. Why do the States get the DVDs last?

And I do not agree with what Martin Gero says about a hug being just a hug when that was created by two great actors who showed that was not just a hug (it obviously freaked the higher ups when the board went crazy after that scene). Sheppard face alone said it all. I perfer the script corridinator's decription in his blog specifically telling people to watch this scene. That it was "surreal". It was more then that too, but it is better than it was just a hug.

[Melyanna]

Melyanna, that was a great review of season one. Thank you. I cannot wait now for the DVD to come out. Why do the States get the DVDs last?

The US gets the DVDs when it does in large part because of syndication contracts, I think.

And I do not agree with what Martin Gero says about a hug being just a hug when that was created by two great actors who showed that was not just a hug (it obviously freaked the higher ups when the board went crazy after that scene). Sheppard face alone said it all. I perfer the script corridinator's decription in his blog specifically telling people to watch this scene. That it was "surreal". It was more then that too, but it is better than it was just a hug.

I'm actually not sure he was talking about this scene — I think he meant McKay and Sheppard under the glow of the shield. He was, after all, talking about the visual effects in the episode.

Though how one confuses McKay and Weir, I'll never know...

EDIT: In case anyone's curious, here's the quote (not spoilery):

Having just watched the final cut of Siege Pt. 3, though… I know what gets my MVP award. The visual effects. For a television show with a budget not even in the realm of sci-fi feature films, I am stunned by the quality and power of the visual effects in Siege 3. These guys are doing an unreal job making the show look visually stunning and producing intense, tension-building effects. Keep an eye out for a scene between Weir and Sheppard under the glow of the onslaught of the Wraith hive ship attacks. It’s surreal.

The full entry is here.

[LadyF]

I'm actually not sure he was talking about this scene — I think he meant McKay and Sheppard under the glow of the shield. He was, after all, talking about the visual effects in the episode.

Though how one confuses McKay and Weir, I'll never know...

EDIT: In case anyone's curious, here's the quote (not spoilery):


The full entry is here.

After re-reading the entry you may be write since he did write "under glow of the shield" which I did not catch before. These days when I see Shep andWeir in the same sentence I get so excited everything else is out the window. However still don't agree with Martin Gero's comment.

[Melyanna]

After re-reading the entry you may be write since he did write "under glow of the shield" which I did not catch before. These days when I see Shep andWeir in the same sentence I get so excited everything else is out the window. However still don't agree with Martin Gero's comment.

Hee! I do the same thing. Had to read it twice myself.

Gero's comment is bizarre, to say the least. He was addressing one point in the episode that was causing some genuine confusion... and then randomly threw in the bit hugging. But as many of us have noted, TPTB have a habit of stirring the pot where ship is concerned, and other comments from them have suggested to me that that's all this was. Besides, as we've said several times since Siege III aired, it wasn't just that scene that came off as shippy. It was the whole episode.

[LadyF]

Hee! I do the same thing. Had to read it twice myself.

Gero's comment is bizarre, to say the least. He was addressing one point in the episode that was causing some genuine confusion... and then randomly threw in the bit hugging. But as many of us have noted, TPTB have a habit of stirring the pot where ship is concerned, and other comments from them have suggested to me that that's all this was. Besides, as we've said several times since Siege III aired, it wasn't just that scene that came off as shippy. It was the whole episode.

It was the whole episode even before the hug until the end. Weir showing her support to Sheppard in the end was not romantic shippy, but it shows what there relationship is about.

Intruder should be interesting to see what happens next.

[Athenaktt]

It was the whole episode even before the hug until the end. Weir showing her support to Sheppard in the end was not romantic shippy, but it shows what there relationship is about.

Intruder should be interesting to see what happens next.

That's what I love about Sheppard and Weir. They have this relationship that has been developed through the first season, as Melyanna had pointed out in her review of last season.

Their talks on the balcony weren't necessarily shippy, but it was a place where kind of let their guard down and showed each other how worried they were about certain things. In those scenes they were like two people in another galaxy faced with immense challeges and being each other's support, instead of the soldier and the leader.

And I don't think there are any other characters that have establish this kind of relationship as Sheppard and Weir have. The only time we see Sheppard with Teyla is when they are out on missions or when he's sparring with her. It's like their relationship is based on actions and instead of words and understanding. I think the Sheppard and Teyla relationship so far lack the personal connection that Sheppard and Weir have which has been established with their conversations with each other. Sheppard and Weir understand each other at certain levels, that they don't have to speak, they just have to look into each other's eyes and they know what they have to do.

So I'm interested in what conversation is going to happen in "Intruder."

[wizengamot]

I was showing the shippy parts of the ep to my friend who was out of town and my sister was in the room and she made a point that I didn't really want to admit but is probably true that Weir romantically likes John more than he her. Which is like "URGH!!!" but it does come across and I think over time the last season esp. he is coming to like her a lot more on different levels. Probably, IMO, they are going to toy with S/T and make us all want to bang our heads against pointed walls repeatedly. In the long run I think S/W will happen and stick. I personally want to see s/t try and happen like the possible

Spoiler:

kiss in Conversion

then see him be not all that into it and then have him see her with Simon whether like pictures, on earth, or hear her talking about him and get a little jealous. Make the guy do some grovelling instead of making the poor woman seem like the desperate one.

I just rambled a lot so if it didn't make sense, sorry, I'm tired, sweating, hot, and can't move a muscle... including my brain...

[Melyanna]

I was showing the shippy parts of the ep to my friend who was out of town and my sister was in the room and she made a point that I didn't really want to admit but is probably true that Weir romantically likes John more than he her. Which is like "URGH!!!" but it does come across and I think over time the last season esp. he is coming to like her a lot more on different levels.

I'm not sure I'd agree, really. I just think Weir's more conscious of how close they became during the last year. To an extent, John's still learning how much they have to work together for the city to stay afloat. John obviously feels strongly for her — just look at his face when he says "Don't scare me like that!" — but it's a matter of knowing how strongly.

MF claims I forgot the scene in Home, but I didn't really. I remember one thing she said to me after that episode aired was that the War and Peace scene almost seemed like she was testing the waters where he was concerned. Besides, you also have the whole symbolism of the book being passed from warrior to diplomat and back again.

[Easter Lily]

I was showing the shippy parts of the ep to my friend who was out of town and my sister was in the room and she made a point that I didn't really want to admit but is probably true that Weir romantically likes John more than he her. Which is like "URGH!!!" but it does come across and I think over time the last season esp. he is coming to like her a lot more on different levels. Probably, IMO, they are going to toy with S/T and make us all want to bang our heads against pointed walls repeatedly. In the long run I think S/W will happen and stick. I personally want to see s/t try and happen like the possible

Spoiler:

kiss in Conversion

then see him be not all that into it and then have him see her with Simon whether like pictures, on earth, or hear her talking about him and get a little jealous. Make the guy do some grovelling instead of making the poor woman seem like the desperate one.

I just rambled a lot so if it didn't make sense, sorry, I'm tired, sweating, hot, and can't move a muscle... including my brain...

I'm with Mel here...
I think there's a darkside to Sheppard... and I don't mean it in a Star Warsy sort of way... By that I mean that despite that jocular facade that he puts up, he is really a very private person and feels things very intensely. Look at the way he lashed out Zelenka when he was very concerned about Ford "I'm not asking you to swim out there... I'm just asking you to push a few buttons" One senses that he's a man who hides behind masks... and those kinds of people care the most but for some reason, don't want it to show. Something drives them really hard and if they were to drop the mask, the full force of their personality could hurt those around them. That jocular facade is their way of keeping their distance from everyone around them. When someone tries to break down that mask with a kind gesture, for instance... it touches something very deeply in them because the dam could burst any moment... Hence, the tremor...

Rodney, we know and understand... He whines, whinges and feels better but Sheppard is still in many ways, an enigma... he keeps secrets... and holds them there with a vengeance.

"Now you know why I love him so..."

This has sort of made me think of Sir Percy Blakeney... the conceited fop with the inane grin who lives behind his mask. Underneathe that lurks a man of enormous passion... one who lives very fast and loves very much... There's that beautiful moment in The Scarlet Pimpernel where it says that if his wife had turned around and looked behind, she would have seen him kissing all the places that she had walked on.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

He was addressing one point in the episode that was causing some genuine confusion... and then randomly threw in the bit hugging.

Yeah it was an odd addition--it came as a post script to the overall comment.. It's almost as if Gero were trying to draw attention to the

Spoiler:

hug

--in case some viewers weren't paying attention. I'm curious to see what other comments surface as the season progresses.

I agree about Shep being emotionally reserved--he never speaks of his family, or personal life and didn't seem to have anyone on earth waiting for him, as it were. He's been through a lot before and during his time on Atlantis, but never let's it on. It will be great to see how his character develops.

Royal