Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Erised]

The only thing that starts to disturbs me is, that since Conversion, John haven't really shown concern over Elizabeth... I just hope they don't let it seem too one sided!

Hm... Okay now this scares me. TPTB can't be that mean and tell us that only Elizabeth has feelings for John. We know this isn't the case, right? The Eye proved it.
Maybe they think that a "worrying Sheppard" would lower their ratings or something. You know how they are

Congrats on 1500 Erised I'll try to green ya, if I can

Thanks

I was a little bored today evining and I made a sig which I won't use cuz I love my current one...so if anyone wants it...fell free to use it
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...signatures.jpg

Nice work as usual, Dorka!

[mentalmichael]

I guess the reason I'm such a proponent of an actual relationship is that if the show goes on for several years and there's no resolution... well, at least one of the characters ends up looking pathetic. Think of it this way: you have two coworkers, one of whom works for the other, and they have a thing for each other but can't do anything about it because of company rules. And this goes on for years. Tell me you and your buddies wouldn't be laughing your butts off at them around the water cooler. It's just not what people do, and in a situation like this where it would be plausible, when considering various rules and regulations, it makes more sense to just go for it, difficulties and all. It'd make for good drama every once in a while, and wouldn't overwhelm the show, because really? The show has more than enough other stuff going on to keep things really interesting.

Well I wouldn't be "laughing my butt off" as I'm far too nice for that to happen . However I absolutely agree that long-term UST is a very bad thing. Even (and I reaaaaaallly don't want this to happen) a brief fling thing would be better than that, as it would at least introduce a new dynamic, whereas continuous UST just leaves things stagnant. I also don't want to see anyone on the show looking pathetic (well, maybe Rodney!), and I agree that based on what happened in sg-1 it would be Elizabeth who would look pathetic.
In other words, I support a relationship between the two.

Big shock there.

I apologise for this post.

[k8tbug1]

I was a little bored today evining and I made a sig which I won't use cuz I love my current one...so if anyone wants it...fell free to use it

Thats a gorgeous sig Dorka. As usual you do wonderful work!! I would snag, but I love mine so much (txs btw) that I don't have the heart to part or change it!!

And many congrats to Erised on going over 1500 posts!!

[Vicky]

Hm... Okay now this scares me. TPTB can't be that mean and tell us that only Elizabeth has feelings for John. We know this isn't the case, right? The Eye proved it.
Maybe they think that a "worrying Sheppard" would lower their ratings or something. You know how they are

I'm scared too. But you're right, John has feelings for Elizabeth too. I'm thinking right now about the scene in Conversion where he said it would be better for both of them.

[SGLAB]

It's strange, yes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm probably going to p*ss some of you and some of the S/T shippers off as well, but what the heck.

This is about Canon "ship" versus Fandom "ship". The two are somewhat different, as I hope I'll explain.

In canon, I don't think the PTB are doing anything as maturely with S/W as we think they are. When it comes to romantic ship I don't think they have remotely the talent for it. Just look at their record with SG-1, the debacle over Pete, the on-off Sam and Jack stuff, here today, gone tomorrow, here today, gone tomorrow... ad infinitum.

In canon, I think that they are going with a "profound" friendship thing with S/W, despite earlier thoughts about making them "confrontational" like Jack and Daniel. Hence Joe's comments about there being no romantic tension with Weir. Luckily for us, PTB can do friendship it seems. I would challenge anyone to say that S/W are not friends in canon, I think someone would have to have the weirdest relationship patterns in the world to see that they are not. For S/W fandom, I think what we have is a happy accident from the policy that PTB are following. Don't get me wrong I love S/W, I love their scenes together, I love how they spark off each other, the caring that's there (whether you perceive it romantic or not). I think that's lovely, I think that's the basis for a mature, romantic ship. The PTB don't think that way tho.

ITA, TPTB do know how to do friendship. And for me if that's all they do with Shep/Weir than I'll be very satisfied.

It's funny when I say "that's all they do" (meaning friendship) it sounds to my ears like friendship doesn't really mean anything. Like romance is more important. As much as I like Shep/Weir ship (meaning potential romance) I love friendship the most. I can always imagine if the show ends and they still are working together and are in each other's lives they can get together later.

Look at Ronon and Teyla, canon-wise they're the same, I love them together (and it isn't because I'm a S/W). They smile at each other, lovely gentle smiles, they exchange glances, it's a real connection. I will love to see their friendship develop, for alas if it's working really well, then the PTB won't be seeing romance.

I'm sure we'd all agree that in the real world, both scenarios of caring and friendship would be the basis of any normal romantic relationship, but not if you live in the world of the PTB, in my opinion.

Yeah, again I think I'd be better off projecting after the show with Teyla/Ronon.

Firstly, the character of Sheppard is the character that the PTB would all love to be. Like all of us, they project onto Sheppard, hence the "kirking" and the Teyla thing, i.e. the hot alien chick. Secondly, he PTB are all men, so they're writing "romance" in a way that they think most female viewers like, bad re-hashing of bad-Harlequin (Mills and Boons for us Ukers). For me as a non S/T fan, it just goes over my head most of the time. I don't see the things S/T fans see, which is fine, shipping is very much in the eye of the beholder and I don't think any less of them for seeing it. But I'm not an S/T fan, so I'm watching their scenes without looking for ship. So what do I see in canon S/T?

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it. Although funnily enough a male friend thought they were doing it because "Sheppard had his head in her breasts". A male point of view.). I also see not very much caring. I don't see the amount of consistent caring that John does for Elizabeth or Teyla for Ronon A lot of their interaction is very confrontational and yes "tense". I'm sure many of you like me will have read bad romances, where the couple "hate" each other before suddenly realising that they "love" each other and that usually includes a forced kiss. It's bad, it's immature. To be clear, I am not talking about how S/T shippers see their ship, because from what I've read in terms of fanfic and what they say, their fandom ship is absolutely what I'd expect from a fandom ship, there's caring in there, there's love and romance.

Unfortunately when I see S/T in a scene together I feel like they may as well be in different rooms for the interest they have in each other. They don't even have a very good friendship IMO never mind romantic chemistry. And the stick fighting scenes? They're a milder version of those decontamination scenes in Star Trek Enterprise IMO. Or those stupid Neuro-pressure scenes between Trip/T'pol.

There's also one more thing that's missing from Canon S/T, and that is consistency.

In the tried and tested manner of S/J (why do something new when you can go back and rehash an old relationship?), the PTB spend episode after episode ignoring S/T and then throw in the old spurious shippy moment. It is not consistent. Again, I'm not talking about fandon S/T, who like us for S/W will see ship in ways we don't see and vica versa, again I'm talking about canon S/T here. In this way, PTB will probably treat S/T in the same way as S/J.

As I've said in other posts I didn't seriously start watching sg-1 until about mid season 4 so I didn't know much about the s/j ship. The first time I noticed them writing in ust was Beneath the Surface. I thought okay so we have ust between these two. I wasn't interested really. I really didn't care.

I actually kinda guessed tptb didn't really create any great basis for realistic believable romantic feelings between the two, but shrugged my shoulders figuring that was typical of a show like this. The usual sexual tension for the sake of sexual tension.

It really wasn't until s7 where I got annoyed. They really started pushing things between s/j and I felt it got in the way. They seemed to be trying to resolve it, but doing a poor job making particularly Sam look bad. I thought they should have just kept it at vague ust and like most of these shows it would have been forgotten.

The way they've done S/T is the same and if they had the slightest bit of chemistry I might not have cared. But the chemistry between Shep/Weir I find really great. TPTB have developed a strong friendship with them as they have proved they can do, but I agree they don't seem to think of that as a good basis for romance.

Tell you what, canon wise, I'd go with S/W being really good friends, because that can be built on in lots of lovely ways in fandom. The same goes for R/T. We are not going to get S/W (and R/T) riding off into the sunset, this PTB do not do that. We'll get lots of great friendship moments (with sub-textual flirting that perhaps only certain people will see) and the odd canon-S/T shippy moment thrown in.

Have to say, this is only just my opinion, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong by the PTB. But I doubt it, unless they get some writers in (preferably women who know ship)

I too would like to see the ptb prove me wrong. Until then I think they should stick to friendship. And I can interpret their interactions the way I like to my heart's content.

[Chrysalis]

Well I wouldn't be "laughing my butt off" as I'm far too nice for that to happen . However I absolutely agree that long-term UST is a very bad thing. Even (and I reaaaaaallly don't want this to happen) a brief fling thing would be better than that, as it would at least introduce a new dynamic, whereas continuous UST just leaves things stagnant. I also don't want to see anyone on the show looking pathetic (well, maybe Rodney!), and I agree that based on what happened in sg-1 it would be Elizabeth who would look pathetic.
In other words, I support a relationship between the two.

Big shock there.

I apologise for this post.

I'm with you Michael, when it comes to being worried about Elizabeth looking pathetic. That's the last thing any of us wants. TPTB made Sam a bit wishy-washy. We don't want that for Elizabeth.
Have had a rethink on the relationship issue. Maybe.. As you said, something brief could develop the relationship even further. It doesn't need to be ongoing.. in fact if it wasn't it would probably make things more interesting.
BUT! It needs to be a real life thing, not an alternate reality/infected by alien entity type of thing. And we need to not have John running off with Space Chicks later!

[Chrysalis]

In canon, I think that they are going with a "profound" friendship thing with S/W, despite earlier thoughts about making them "confrontational" like Jack and Daniel. Hence Joe's comments about there being no romantic tension with Weir.

Interesting point. Perhaps it's a situation where the characters are comfortable with each other --- therefore the 'tension' is lacking in Joe's view. They tease each other, they flirt, they're comfortable with that sort of thing.
On the other hand, who knows what he's thinking.
I think TPTB have done friendship very well in the past, and we're seeing that now with John and Elizabeth. They're developing into very close friends and allies. Maybe they're going to work at building a foundation of sorts and taking it from there.

[Chrysalis]

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it. Although funnily enough a male friend thought they were doing it because "Sheppard had his head in her breasts". A male point of view.). I also see not very much caring. I don't see the amount of consistent caring that John does for Elizabeth or Teyla for Ronon A lot of their interaction is very confrontational and yes "tense". I'm sure many of you like me will have read bad romances, where the couple "hate" each other before suddenly realising that they "love" each other and that usually includes a forced kiss. It's bad, it's immature. To be clear, I am not talking about how S/T shippers see their ship, because from what I've read in terms of fanfic and what they say, their fandom ship is absolutely what I'd expect from a fandom ship, there's caring in there, there's love and romance.
Very, very true! Ship is in the eye of the beholder, but I see nothing there, and any tension between them has been 'agro' --- eg in Letters From Pegasus (thanks Erised for reminding me which ep!)
There's also one more thing that's missing from Canon S/T, and that is consistency.

In the tried and tested manner of S/J (why do something new when you can go back and rehash an old relationship?), the PTB spend episode after episode ignoring S/T and then throw in the old spurious shippy moment. It is not consistent. Again, I'm not talking about fandon S/T, who like us for S/W will see ship in ways we don't see and vica versa, again I'm talking about canon S/T here. In this way, PTB will probably treat S/T in the same way as S/J.
which means it's not going to really end up going anywhere, while the Shep/Weir friendship they're insisting is happening --- not ship, friendship -- will probably be more enduring!
Tell you what, canon wise, I'd go with S/W being really good friends, because that can be built on in lots of lovely ways in fandom. The same goes for R/T. We are not going to get S/W (and R/T) riding off into the sunset, this PTB do not do that. We'll get lots of great friendship moments (with sub-textual flirting that perhaps only certain people will see) and the odd canon-S/T shippy moment thrown in.

Have to say, this is only just my opinion, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong by the PTB. But I doubt it, unless they get some writers in (preferably women who know ship)

Hmmm. New writers.. perhaps. But I don't think you have to be a woman to be able to write ship. I love the shippy aspect of Firefly. Joss Whedon is brilliant. And he's not a girl!!!

[Jenova Synthesis]

Okay here in Europe it's already January 9th which means

[Royal_Nonesuch]

There's been some great discussion here over the last few pages.

Just wanted to stop in after seeing "The Hive". I thoguht it was a good ep overall with some fun dialogue. I also think there was Sparkiness. When

Spoiler:

Rodney entered the gateroom, Liz walked right past him expecting to find Sheppard. To me that is a classic technique to highlight an individual character's emotion. In this case, it would be Weir's feeling's for John. It might have been intended to highlight her concern for the whole team, but the message it sent was certainly mixed. My bro came away from the scene with a ShWeir vibe and he doesn't ship anything on the show.

There is no dougt that Weir cares for the entire team, but the dialogue, acting and cinematography all suggested a special emphasis on her concern for John. To me, it seems TPTB certainly want the audience to see Shep and Weir as "allies" (as Torri noted in her interview), but want to leave room for something more to develop. I'm also surprised at the consistency. Sheppard and Weir have had a steady dynamic over the past season and a half. Her concern in the "Lost Boys" was picked up very nicely and not over-emphasized.

What episode will be airing in Canada tomorrow? I'm curious to see where the writers are heading for the finale.

Royal

[Erised]

I'm gonna repeat Jan! Don't be mad at me okay?

Happy Birthday to our lovely Dorka!!

[k8tbug1]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DORKA!!!!

[sunny]

Hi. My name is Sunny and I am a shipperholic and this is my FIRST post on this forum. I recently got SGA s1 on DVD and devoured it. But I didn't watch The Seige cos I don't get the SciFi channel and I don't like cliffys... so I vicariously live through this forum and others like it to keep up to speed. I'm actually in the process of trying to catch up w/this thread cos it's fun and I have nothing else to do w/my life. I've read almost all y'alls fics *ROCKIN* btw, and uh yeah that's it. OH rite I should mention I like the Shep/Wier ship.

[xkawaiix]

Happy Birthday Dorka!

[k8tbug1]

Hi. My name is Sunny and I am a shipperholic and this is my FIRST post on this forum. I recently got SGA s1 on DVD and devoured it. But I didn't watch The Seige cos I don't get the SciFi channel and I don't like cliffys... so I vicariously live through this forum and others like it to keep up to speed. I'm actually in the process of trying to catch up w/this thread cos it's fun and I have nothing else to do w/my life. I've read almost all y'alls fics *ROCKIN* btw, and uh yeah that's it. OH rite I should mention I like the Shep/Wier ship.

WELCOME TO OUR WONDERFUL THREAD SUNNY!!!