Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Kazan]

I made my first fanfid ever. An Atlantis one, basically a focus on Seige Part II, so... spoilers abound. Here's a link from USendIt. I hope it works, because I don't have a website. LOL.

It's about 5MB

http://s21.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...A2NBU9DYG0LWM3

Fantastic vid, really good!!

Mel - the fic is great - hadn't read it at all - can't believe I missed it til now!!More please?!?!?!

And.....
39:30 - Definately right!!

[Liv]

Their relationship isn't quite sibling/sibling (that's how I see McKay and Weir, actually — a frightening similarity to my relationship with my older brother), but "one of the guys" is a good description.

Definitely. I get the sibling vibe from McKay/Weir, too. I think one of the scenes where I felt that the most is the one scene in The Gift, in Weir's office. The whole conversation between the two of them felt very... well, sibling-like. The teasing, Elizabeth glancing in Rodney's direction as he kept asking her what he had done to make her think about

Spoiler:

why the Wraith experiments had ended

while her focus remained on John. I laughed out loud at her "I don't remember" and her dismissive little headshake following that line. At the way she says it. Then Rodney keeps pressing the issue and she turns to glare at him. He stops talking. Weir immedeately turns her attention back to Sheppard. And while my description of that scene may seem harsh in the wording, it's really just the opposite; I found it wonderfully amusing and very much in the vein of a sibling relationship. Very comfortable banter between them. From what I've gathered, I understand that some McKay/Weir shippers see a romantic relationship between the two of them, because of Weir's ability to "rein" Rodney in and basically make him shut up. While that may be true I really don't see that as much of a basis for a romantic relationship. I try to imagine the two of them in that kind of relationship and the imagery comes out all wrong. I just don't see an attraction there. At all.

Even in "Home" she came off that way. She was a drinking buddy, and not much more. (That actually cracked me up. There she was in that horrible, revealing outfit, and John kept bringing up Elizabeth!)

There's that, yes. Although, he only mentioned her once, didn't he? I did however find it pretty interesting that he singled her out: "Dr. Weir and everyone else on Atlantis."

Of course, it might just be the fact that she's the leader, and it's only natural for him to single her name out.

Amen. For reasons totally unrelated to Sheppard/Weir, I really want to see them develop Sheppard and Teyla as good friends. My favorite relationships in books, movies, and shows are usually non-romantic (my favorite ever is probably Simon and River, brother and sister, in Firefly), and I'd love to see Atlantis develop Sheppard and Teyla as non-romantic. After all, not all forms of love are romantic, and just because they care about each other doesn't mean they get married and have lots of babies.

Ah, Firefly... Yes, I loved that relationship dearly. I also loved the sibling-like relationship between Mal and Kaylee. Actually, I loved ALL of the relationships (with the possible exception of Mal/Inara, which I found a bit... boring.) But the crew were as close as a family and yes, in most cases I find the non-romantic relationships to be the most interesting of them all. Zoe/Wash managed to be something as unusual as a married couple that really appealed to me. Not unusual because of the fact that they were married but unusual because of the fact that they managed to make the "romantic aspects" of the relationship very interesting to me.

Heh, yeah, they kind of forgot about that "leader of her people" thing. But yeah. The fact that John and Elizabeth have chosen to run this base together (with a couple hiccups) puts them on equal footing, which makes it so much more likely for a relationship to stand. Besides, as I think I said earlier, you can actually imagine the two of them having something to talk about after work, as different as they are. I can't see that with John and Teyla.

The equal footing between Sheppard/Weir is an aspect of the relationship that is very important to me. The fact that they're already on first name basis is another one. It still surprises me a little that she called him 'John' so early on, but I liked it. I liked it a lot.

[macktheknife]

I endorse this event or product\sig test. I hope you dont mind me borrowing the space mascot.

I also wrote a quite lengthy report in the episode part of the forums.

[Kazan]

Mel, Liv, Persephone and everyone else - great thoughts on the various ship pairings!!!
If I may add my 2 cents...

Shep / Teyla
Never really could see that at all and only recently have I started to warm to the character Teyla at all. I certainly have not seen anything more than a friendship between her and Shep. Partly that was me cos I just thought this was the token alien character and partly because there wasn't exactly a lot of characterisation or development for RL to work with. They made her out to be the strong leader amoungst her people then moved the Athosians to the mainland so there was extremely limited screen time where that could be shown and reinforce the characters leadership skills. As a result I just never quite got convinced on that
To me Shep admired, respected, liked and trusted her from the beginning but that was it. He refers often to her as "a member of my team" and he is to a fault fiercely loyal to his team. I agree with a lot of the comment before that they relationship is much more like a "buddy" or "one of the guys". I'm not saying that they don't have a strong friendship but the vibe / spark for anything more just isn't there for me/

Weir / McKay
I think I've said before and agree with others - much more of a sibling relationship than anything else. I adore the banter and the way that they both play this and I really hope that continues to get developed. All the fantastic one liners, looks etc generally have me laughing out loud at least once each episode. The way that Weir has him sized up and can shut him up with a word or a look is soooo older, bigger sister though - just can't imagine anything romantic. I think Weir unconditionally trusts and respects McKay and relies on him for the practical, science side of things but not in an emotional sense

Shep / Weir
Started slow but has really gone from strength to strength - 39:30 says it all!!
Seriously, their relationship is a fascinating one. They come from directly opposite backgrounds and outlooks but come together to find themselves working and living a partnership - and I think that it took both of them by surprise just how well they fit together and how interdependant and reliant they are. I honestly believe thats what makes the possibilites for this relationship so interesting - its something that they themselves were not expecting, possibily haven't yet admitted to themselves (let alone each other), and don't quite know what it means or how it will develop.
What I think is being seen is an intense link which they both physically and emotionally need. Notice the increased levels of eye contact and starring? Its almost like there is this invisible link and subconciously they rely upon each other. Its starting to come across as intense and quite intimate. Definately some sparks starting to fly.
I am really looking forward to when they meet up again - can't wait to see what happens there. The opportunities to run within this relationship are very wide. I can see angst, anger, frustration, friendship, love, humour, romance, intimacy (emotional as well as Physical) - oh so many possible angles to play with. I just hope that TPTB and writers are good enough to run with this.

Oops sorry - rambled on rather more than I intended when I started

[seetheship]

Word to all the takes on the different pairings..more so the S/W ship. These two have evolved into a most fascinating ship and kudos to the two actors that have oodles of chemistry and making the most of it. IMHO Sheppard /Weir has the potential to become the hottest ship in sci fi world ... so.subtle.

[ra-hanna]

Now please, don't flame me for this till you've read the entire post. (As boring as it may be... ) But I ship for McKay/Weir. Wait! Wait! I post here too! I love the comradery between Weir and Mckay. (Not to mention the fact that I love the character of Mckay and how layered and complicated he is.) I don't see it so much in the light of sister/brother as others do but I do see how comfortable they are with each other. There's an understanding and mutual respect for each other that is very strong. So I envision some emotions moving them to be more physically attracted to each other thus moving things beyond the friendship/co-worker mutual respect thing that they're in right now. I guess that makes me a future McWeir shipper.

BUT-I also see the present affections between Shep and Weir. There's an obvious attraction between them (okay, maybe just obvious to us) but I love the fact that as leaders she's the civilian and he's military and all the complications there are with their leadership styles. What they have in common and what brings them together (being leaders) is one of the things that could also keep them apart and cause a struggle between them. I love the fact that there is ship there but it's sooooo different than the Jack/Sam ship. As a Jack/Sam shipper I think quite a few of us have seen the regs as the only thing keeping them apart all these years. But for ShWeir I don't think there's a specific reg. problem (probably more along the lines of we're both leaders so we SHOULDN'T hook up as opposed to we are FORBIDDEN by law to hook up.) I think for me, part of the attraction of ShWeir ship is that difference between them and Jack&Sam ship. Jack&Sam had to deal with one always being the subordinate. But Shep&Weir are more on mutual ground. And I can't wait to see how being in another galaxy and not under the constant scrutiny of the government plays out in comparison to the jack/sam ship.

Personally, it's only the first season. (And I'm in America so I've only been spoiled for the end of the season) so I think it's possible for any and all personel on the screen to end up in a ship. (Especially after reading all the fanfic out there.) Things are still open. So I keep my ship options open.

But as for shep/teyla. No. I'm not reading that other than two attractive people that work together. But, what can I say. I go where the writers lead me.

Oh! And did I mention I'm a McKay/Sheppard shipper too! Yeah, I know. I'm off the deep end with that one. But I swear the writers are putting it in there.

[astronomicalchick]

Re McKay/Weir, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. McKay is just too good to be shipped off with someone. The dramatic interest in his character is all about him being nerdy, out of place, the geeky scientist, who is gradually turning into a soldier. I watched him in his soliloquy in Letter from Pegagus, and he was fantastic. To pair him off with Weir would domesticate and I really wouldn’t want to see that. If he starts getting regular sex, he won’t be the snarky, grouchy and totally wonderful McKay that I love.

Besides he loves Sam and all other short-haired blonde women.

Very comfortable banter between them. From what I've gathered, I understand that some McKay/Weir shippers see a romantic relationship between the two of them, because of Weir's ability to "rein" Rodney in and basically make him shut up. While that may be true I really don't see that as much of a basis for a romantic relationship. I try to imagine the two of them in that kind of relationship and the imagery comes out all wrong. I just don't see an attraction there. At all.

I agree, they have a wonderful sibling vibe, although there was a scene in Letter that I thought could have been interpreted by shippy if I’d be a McWeiry. I also don’t think that Weir’s ability to rein Rodney is a good enough reason for ship, at all. But I do think the McWeirys are serious about their ship. They’re a bit like the Sam and Daniel of the Atlantis world. I’m not sure that all of them are all about snaring Weir off so that she doesn’t seduce Sheppard (I’m highly amused by the fact that that infers that Sheppard hasn’t got a brain in his head and is at the mercy of these two rapacious women)

Even in "Home" she came off that way. She was a drinking buddy, and not much more. (That actually cracked me up. There she was in that horrible, revealing outfit, and John kept bringing up Elizabeth!)

What was so striking in that scene was that the total lack of ship. Sheppard was at one end of the room, and she was at the other. Okay it could have been construed as shippy the fact that the two of them were together in the same fantasy, but given that it was Sheppard’s fantasy, why wasn’t he making the moves? There was no flirting, no vibe, no moves… nada.. nothing. He could have been in the room with an ironing board and they’re would have been more of a vibe.

I agree with a lot of the comment before that they relationship is much more like a "buddy" or "one of the guys". I'm not saying that they don't have a strong friendship but the vibe / spark for anything more just isn't there for me/

However, like Kazan and others, I do agree it’s more a buddy vibe… and that she’s one of the guys. It’d be interesting to see Teyla the woman, but with someone else with whom she has more chemistry

I’ve also said it before. If they force Sheyla on me, I’ll hurl. Repeatedly. I will start the forum’s first Anti-Sheyla thread and I will rant about it frequently. I don’t trust the PTB not to try it. If someone on the writing staff was in love with the idea at the inception, they could still be in love with the idea and try to do something with it. I have two fears, firstly, PTB will try Sheyla and, secondly, they will monumentally screw up Sheppard and Weir by forcing the ship.

Sheppard and Weir.. ah where do I start? Why I like it? First off, chemistry, it’s there in bucketloads. They’re equals, intellectually and in status. They have complementary personalities, she’s serious, he can be flippant, he sees the wee picture, the personal, she sees the bigger picture. He’s military and used to fighting his way out of bad situations, she’s used to talking her way out of bad situations. It also, just works.

[Liv]

I agree, they have a wonderful sibling vibe, although there was a scene in Letter that I thought could have been interpreted by shippy if I’d be a McWeiry. I also don’t think that Weir’s ability to rein Rodney is a good enough reason for ship, at all. But I do think the McWeirys are serious about their ship. They’re a bit like the Sam and Daniel of the Atlantis world. I’m not sure that all of them are all about snaring Weir off so that she doesn’t seduce Sheppard (I’m highly amused by the fact that that infers that Sheppard hasn’t got a brain in his head and is at the mercy of these two rapacious women)

That’s a good analogy, Astro - yeah, the Sam and Daniel of Atlantis. I can see that, absolutely. The way that I see the relationship between McKay and Weir is just about the same way I do see Sam and Daniel. A close, comfortable and completely platonic relationship. As I’ve said before – the definition of a “shipper” is different from person to person. I think it's a pretty safe bet that not every shipper considers McKay/Weir right for each other based solely on her ability to make him stop his (occasional) ramblings. I haven't actually ventured into the McKay/Weir shipper thread so I went by an example I've seen in a couple of posts around this and other forums. I myself am some kind of weird mixture of an anti-shipper/shipper when it comes to Sheppard/Weir and I’ve decided not to analyze things too much and just to go with it instead. I don’t know what that makes me. All I know is that I enjoy the chemistry between them. The relationship has been wonderful in this first season and I’m just along for the ride. If I sense things going of in the wrong direction I’m sure my anti-shippyness will kick in, but for now I’m just enjoying the subtle interaction on screen and the discussions of the same.

I’ve also said it before. If they force Sheyla on me, I’ll hurl. Repeatedly. I will start the forum’s first Anti-Sheyla thread and I will rant about it frequently. I don’t trust the PTB not to try it. If someone on the writing staff was in love with the idea at the inception, they could still be in love with the idea and try to do something with it. I have two fears, firstly, PTB will try Sheyla and, secondly, they will monumentally screw up Sheppard and Weir by forcing the ship.

Ditto. I will take up residency on that thread. I will set up camp! I just hope it won’t come to that. I think TPTB veered from that direction pretty much right away. While we’re on the subject of the Sheppard/Teyla ship though, I can't help but wonder why there are now seemingly TWO Sheppard/Teyla ship threads in general discussion??

[pittsburghgirl]

finished the entire series one, and had maybe 3 teyla sheppard ship scenes, and about 20324923 Sheppard\Weir ship scenes. 39.30.

It's funny how the Sheppard\Teyla shippers seem to see McKay\Weir as well, it's like they are trying so hard to get the enemy, Weir, occupied, so that Sheppard wont turn over to their version of the dark side. I dont think us Sheppard\Weir shippers (yes, i am now one of them) are going to start Teyla\McKay ship threads, now are we? It's because we know we are right.

oh please tell me you won't do that to McKay.

[FoolishPleasure]

While we’re on the subject of the Sheppard/Teyla ship though, I can't help but wonder why there are now seemingly TWO Sheppard/Teyla ship threads in general discussion??

Seems to be same people running both threads. Their posts are like one or two words -just to get the post count up high. The new thread even boasts how much faster the Shep/Teyla count as gone up vs. Shep/Weir.

Not sure whether to ignore them and wait until they get bored, or if we should send a nano-virus over to wipe them out.

[FoolishPleasure]

I’ve also said it before. If they force Sheyla on me, I’ll hurl. Repeatedly. I will start the forum’s first Anti-Sheyla thread and I will rant about it frequently.

*LOL*. . hey, that is a thread I would join.

[Kazan]

Seems to be same people running both threads. Their posts are like one or two words -just to get the post count up high. The new thread even boasts how much faster the Shep/Teyla count as gone up vs. Shep/Weir.

Not sure whether to ignore them and wait until they get bored, or if we should send a nano-virus over to wipe them out.

Don't waste any energy - just to ignore them LOL .
Seriously I wish them all the best etc etc - each to their own, I have no problems with it, just not my thing. However, the very fact that they have to compare their thread to this conveys a little insecurity in their ship choice ?!?!
On the subject of the post count - ahh but check out the views numbers 28566 views for S/W vrs 6980 for S/T.
Somehow methinks there is plenty of genuine interest in Shep / Weir - there must be a lot of lurkers out there!! Come on delurk and join in!!!

I’ve also said it before. If they force Sheyla on me, I’ll hurl. Repeatedly. I will start the forum’s first Anti-Sheyla thread and I will rant about it frequently. I don’t trust the PTB not to try it. If someone on the writing staff was in love with the idea at the inception, they could still be in love with the idea and try to do something with it.

Me too - that would be the complete end for me - I seriously doubt I could continue to watch if they go that route! I'm hoping that TPTB have realised is not worth pursuing in any way.

[Melyanna]

Definitely. I get the sibling vibe from McKay/Weir, too. I think one of the scenes where I felt that the most is the one scene in The Gift, in Weir's office. The whole conversation between the two of them felt very... well, sibling-like. The teasing, Elizabeth glancing in Rodney's direction as he kept asking her what he had done to make her think about

Spoiler:

why the Wraith experiments had ended

while her focus remained on John. I laughed out loud at her "I don't remember" and her dismissive little headshake following that line. At the way she says it. Then Rodney keeps pressing the issue and she turns to glare at him. He stops talking. Weir immedeately turns her attention back to Sheppard. And while my description of that scene may seem harsh in the wording, it's really just the opposite; I found it wonderfully amusing and very much in the vein of a sibling relationship. Very comfortable banter between them. From what I've gathered, I understand that some McKay/Weir shippers see a romantic relationship between the two of them, because of Weir's ability to "rein" Rodney in and basically make him shut up. While that may be true I really don't see that as much of a basis for a romantic relationship. I try to imagine the two of them in that kind of relationship and the imagery comes out all wrong. I just don't see an attraction there. At all.

I went and watched the scene again after reading this post. You're right; it's very cute. Of course, McKay, Weir, and Sheppard have a great relationship. McKay's like a brother to both of them. And I don't see her ability to "rein him in" as anywhere close to romantic. Weir knows how to handle everyone, though I think John confounds her on occasion. At any rate, McKay/Weir strikes me as very, very, very, very wrong, again, because it's just way too close to my brother and me. Thus, no McKay/Weir.

There's that, yes. Although, he only mentioned her once, didn't he? I did however find it pretty interesting that he singled her out: "Dr. Weir and everyone else on Atlantis."

Of course, it might just be the fact that she's the leader, and it's only natural for him to single her name out.

Hmm. Will have to watch that again.

I think part of it is that she's the leader, but I was thinking about this earlier. He obviously knew something was wrong with the reality, and he probably remembered that he and Elizabeth had left Atlantis together, so why was she back in Atlantis while he was on Earth? I really don't think he would leave her in Pegasus while going on what still could have been a one-way trip. I'm certainly not suggesting that his motives were in any way romantic, but it's like Weir said in "Rising". She goes with them.

Ah, Firefly... Yes, I loved that relationship dearly. I also loved the sibling-like relationship between Mal and Kaylee. Actually, I loved ALL of the relationships (with the possible exception of Mal/Inara, which I found a bit... boring.) But the crew were as close as a family and yes, in most cases I find the non-romantic relationships to be the most interesting of them all. Zoe/Wash managed to be something as unusual as a married couple that really appealed to me. Not unusual because of the fact that they were married but unusual because of the fact that they managed to make the "romantic aspects" of the relationship very interesting to me.

Mal and Kaylee were interesting too. I love how his attitude went from callling her a prairie harpie to hiring her the second he saw her talent. I liked Mal/Inara a lot, but I had a feeling that the UST there was going to be dragged out ad infinitum and get boring rather quickly. (Note to self, don't mix love and prostitution. ) Zoe/Wash was interesting to me because there was so much chemistry, and yet I couldn't fathom how they got together. There was mystery even though they were married, and I really don't think all their UST was really resolved.

ANYWAY, this is not a Firefly thread, so I will stop talking about it. Except to say that Alan Tudyk is adorable.

The equal footing between Sheppard/Weir is an aspect of the relationship that is very important to me. The fact that they're already on first name basis is another one. It still surprises me a little that she called him 'John' so early on, but I liked it. I liked it a lot.

I would even go so far as to say that equal footing is the most important part of their relationship now. John treats Teyla the same as he treats Ford, as a friend, but with a limit as befits the chain of command. (McKay's another story, but McKay defies description. ) So there's always a feeling of subordination in his interaction with Teyla. But now that they seem to be past their issues from "Hot Zone", John and Elizabeth are on the same ground.

On a random note, does anyone else think that Carl Binder (writer of "Before I Sleep" and "Letters from Pegasus") is as intrigued by this relationship as we are?

[Vicki]

I'm another who sees the McKay/Weir relationship as sibling like... in a way it reminds me of me and my younger brother... only without the random beatings (so far!) *g*

[Kazan]

On a random note, does anyone else think that Carl Binder (writer of "Before I Sleep" and "Letters from Pegasus") is as intrigued by this relationship as we are?

Yeah I caught that too and was thinking it might be good. Given that those are 2 eps that really had some interesting angles /development in their relationship, I guess we can hope that it might carry on.
BTW my view is that Shep / Weir kinda took TPTB by surprise - don't think they'd thought it might be as interesting or have as much chemistry as it does. I'm hoping that they've decided to go with it.