Carson Beckett/Paul McGillion Thunk Thread

[Jersey13]

I'm glad that you had a chance to see Martin Gero and I respect your opinion, but you seem to be under the impression that Paul McGillion was just a recurring character instead of a regular cast member. They just made him a regular in the second season, and now at the end of the third they're just gonna kill him off? That is more than just "characters just have to die sometimes." He's not a C actor, not to me. He wouldn't have been made a regular if he was.

To me, it's a slap in the face to his fans to do this to Carson, and I for one am shocked and abhorred that they'd do this to Paul after making him a regular. All I have to say is, if they don't do something to resurrect him in season 4, I'm NOT going to be a happy camper.

[rosiewook]

A C list actor will earn between $2,000 to $3,000 per week of work. That sounds like a lot until you realize that most C list actors are guest stars and don't work steadily.

While I'm sure that Paul appreciates the steady paycheck, I think the anger is more over the fact that we think that Carson has been key to the storyline. And that removing him (however that happens) in order to "keep the story fresh" is a cop-out that we've seen many times from the Stargate staff.

Honestly, it's bringing in Jewel Staite as a doctor (essentially replacing Carson's character), that tends to show that this is less about the payment, and more about the fact that rather than trying to figure out how to improve the character, they're killing him off.

I love Jewel Staite and have been following her career for years. And I think she'll do a marvelous job in the show. But I don't think that it's being done for the right reasons.

And man, but I am talking in circles!

[cshawzye]

The other problem I see is that according to everything I've heard/read the reason for Paul's promotion up to a series regular was due to fan support. Now, after only two seasons they are ditching this apparently popular character? Did fan support dip that much in only a year? Granted his screen time has been limited as a regular, but personally I throughly enjoy anytime he's on screen. The whole thing just doesn't make a lot of sense.

As well, in many ways, to me anyway, it's not just that it's happening but how it's happened. All of the silence that has surrounded the whole thing. Then for one producer to spill the beans at some con. To me, it shows a lack of respect for, not only the character and actor, but for the fans who love him so much. Those same fans who were apparently the reason for his rise to series regular.

[Arctic Goddess]

I'm glad that you had a chance to see Martin Gero and I respect your opinion, but you seem to be under the impression that Paul McGillion was just a recurring character instead of a regular cast member. They just made him a regular in the second season, and now at the end of the third they're just gonna kill him off? That is more than just "characters just have to die sometimes." He's not a C actor, not to me. He wouldn't have been made a regular if he was.

To me, it's a slap in the face to his fans to do this to Carson, and I for one am shocked and abhorred that they'd do this to Paul after making him a regular. All I have to say is, if they don't do something to resurrect him in season 4, I'm NOT going to be a happy camper.

Not to nit pick, but I did say, MOST, C list actors are recurring characters. I completely agree with you that Beckett is an endearing character. I love him, and the way he has been characterized by Paul. I am simply trying to see things from the writers and producers point of view, even if I don't agree with it. I have written a letter to Bridge Studios asking for the return of Beckett. I think, however, that the writers and producers probably see this as a decision already made and will stick with it unless fans are willing to fight for the return of Beckett in the same manner as they did for Daniel Jackson.

[leelakin]

I asked him why they were killing off characters like Pendergast and Grodin. His answer was that in real life, people die. And if they hope to keep the story fresh, they need to get rid of characters from time to time.

See, and this is where my understanding just stops. o_o

I don't know how you other guys feel about it, maybe it's just me being an overly obsessed fan, but... I've NEVER EVER liked anyone dying on a show, not even after 7 years or something. I don't even specifically mean Carson here or even my MOST favourite shows, but the whole concept in general.

I mean okay, there are characters that were brought in for the fans to hate (Diana Fowley on the X-Files, anyone? *lol*) and when they die, about 90% of the fans approve of it (though I still find it really sad). But most of the times, that is NOT the case. Let's take Carson for example. I don't know a single person that dislikes him (merely isn't paticularly interested in him or whatever), the majority really loves him.

I just don't see HOW it would "keep the story fresh". What is that supposed to mean, anyway? If "fresh" means that we can never get settled team dynamics because they keep writing out regulars (and/or important supportive roles), then I don't want a "fresh" show.
It kinda seems to me that if they can't think of plots refreshening enough, then they'll just kill someone to shake thinks up a bit? Is this how they think it works? Because I'd hate to think so, someone please explain it to me.

What good is it to kill loved characters off, really? I really think this has to be some kind of myth going around among the producers. And "people die in real life" is not a reason at all. What the heck, a lot of things happen in real life that don't happen on tv. Besides, how high is the probability that one out of, let's say, 10 people dies every 2 years? Is THAT reality? (Alright, I see they're in a lot of dangerous situations, but still)
My point is, they could as well have them NEAR death and make it seem really angsty and realistic and still NOT have them die. There is no reason to let them die.

To sum up my point:
I. do. not. want. any. character. to. die. EVER. Seriously. (and I haven't ever known anyone going "whoa, I wish [randomcharacter] would die already, he's been on for FOUR seasons without a break!")

As I said, maybe it's just me being irrational as a fan. ): But I've always thought of this when watching a show.


@Arctic: Thanks so much for the quote! It's always interesting to hear the producers' point of view (though I mostly fail to understand it *lol*).

[cshawzye]

And "people die in real life" is not a reason at all. What the heck, a lot of things happen in real life that don't happen on tv. Besides, how high is the probability that one out of, let's say, 10 people dies every 2 years? Is THAT reality? (Alright, I see they're in a lot of dangerous situations, but still)

I always thought this was kind of a cop out too. When I really think about it, I don't watch tv to have a total reflection of reality. Sure it's nice to see my self reflected in characters and things like that. But what it really comes down to is I watch tv to escape. To enjoy an hour or two of non-reality where I don't have to think about what's going on outside in the real world. And it's characters like Beckett who really keep me glued to the screen.

[leelakin]

I always thought this was kind of a cop out too. When I really think about it, I don't watch tv to have a total reflection of reality. Sure it's nice to see my self reflected in characters and things like that. But what it really comes down to is I watch tv to escape. To enjoy an hour or two of non-reality where I don't have to think about what's going on outside in the real world. And it's characters like Beckett who really keep me glued to the screen.

Right-o! And as an additional thought... even though it can be quite intriguing when a tv show is all real live (though I think that never even existed in this sense), is people dying really what we like about real life? Surely not, in fact, it's one of mankind's greatest fears. I think it's kinda cruel to give the audience characters that they adore and care about and suddenly, POOF, let them die.
In real life, it's still unfair, but it HAPPENS and there's nothing you can do about it (mostly). But we all know that it doesn't HAVE to happen in tv shows and they still present this loss to us on purpose, which is what makes it just as unfair.

[rosiewook]

Not to nit pick, but I did say, MOST, C list actors are recurring characters. I completely agree with you that Beckett is an endearing character. I love him, and the way he has been characterized by Paul. I am simply trying to see things from the writers and producers point of view, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm sorry if it seems like you're being attacked. It wasn't meant that way. It's just we're arguing with the producers through your comment.

(Wow. And if you understand that statement, I'm impressed.)

If anything, your trying to give us some perspective on how things work just provides us with more arguements to put in our letters to the producers.

This is not a money-saving move, since they're bringing in Jewel as a new character. It's the lack of effort in trying to make an existing character interesting.

And we keep using the phrase "kill off" when we talk about Carson while it appears that he's merely going to disappear, somehow. They could still figure out a way to use the direction they've already gone to create an interesting arc for Carson. It wouldn't require terribly much screen time away from the other characters. But it would be nice to see someone else going through a journey.

[Jersey13]

Yeah... I'd be all for an arc where they bring him to the brink of death, and then bring him back in all his scottish glory. It could help his character grow a lot and become even more interesting... I just don't want him to be killed off. I don't want TPTB to just sweep his character under the rug and forget about him for no good reason other than for shock value.

[Wraith_Hunter]

Just an observation, and I'm not trying to cause trouble, but when I attended the Vancouver Creation Con, I had a chance to talk to Martin Gero, one of the big writers, on Atlantis. I asked him why they were killing off characters like Pendergast and Grodin. His answer was that in real life, people die. And if they hope to keep the story fresh, they need to get rid of characters from time to time.

So, I suspect that is the reason they have decided that Beckett would go. Money is probably not part of the equation since Paul McGillion is not a top of the line actor. The industry list their actors as A list (Brad Pitt, Penelope Cruz), B list (Michael Shanks, Ben Browder, Joe Flannigan), and C list ( Cliff Simon, Paul McGillion and Craig Veroni). Obviously, the C list actors don't earn as much as the others higher up the list. A C list actor will earn between $2,000 to $3,000 per week of work. That sounds like a lot until you realize that most C list actors are guest stars and don't work steadily.

BTW, I know all this because I have friends who work in television.

Funny how you linked fairly minor characters when asking him that. SG-1 only did it once with Janet. The only reason that happened is because they were ready to end it at S7. So she would have gone a few eps from the very end of the shot itself, which wouldn't have been too bad.

They can say what they want, try & spin whatever crap they think the fans will believe..BUT the bottom line is they will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER kill off a main team character unless the actor/actress themselves wants out.

Shep, McKay especially are untouchable. Ronon is virtually the same because if he goes, then it'll look like they made a mistake in getting rid of Ford & people would want him back. Teyla, Weir would be expendable fairly easily. She hasn't done virtually anything since S1. While Weir could easily be replaced by someone like Mitch Pileggi to make things much more interesting to have a new commander.

They will never do that, the same as why they didn't do it in SG-1 until forced to by MS & RDA's departures. They made cast changes in S9, yet it got cancelled in S10. Now they're making sweeping cast changes in Atlantis as well. So obviously these morons haven't learned their lesson. They'll only learn it when they've killed the Stargate franchise stone dead & find themselves writing scripts for something to do, hoping someone stupid enough would actually be willing to give them work again.

They've simply decided to pick what they consider the easiest/lesser main character to whack, in order to make room for other people. Ronon gets captured, take to Hives. Then every time, pulls knives from every orphus of his body. Shep gets drained almost to death, then miraculously brought back straight away again to what he was. He gets turned into a bug, yet gets transformed back just as quick. McKay later on in S3 get's something happen to him. I bet he has a miracle experience before the end of the ep & is back to his usual self. See all that happening, then we are to believe that people die in real life & they like to freshen things up. Right, I'll believe that when me **** turns purple & starts smelling like rainbow sherbert! If they truly want to freshen things up, then get rid of the amateurish bunch of writers they have. They now have axed 2 characters in 2 seasons because they can't find a way to take them forward. Yet these same 'experts' can write & devote 2 eps to 'Lucius Lavin'. A man who drugs & tricks everyone around him, women into falling in love with him/marry him & all the more serious implications. Yet it's all done & treated as a joke. Hate to break it to you fellas, but the only joke is how MGM haven't canned 99% of all your asses long ago. To start freshening things up, sweep out the old guard & bring in new staff. This way, the yes men aren't there any more. 1 old boy writes the script, another directs & produces it. Then another puts themselves in as creative consulant & all that other tripe all in the same ep. The problem isn't with the characters, it's the fools with the keyboards that don't know how to use them properly.

As to your actor grouping. For the B's- MS, DH & JF. For the C's you put P McG along with Cliff Simon & Craig Veroni.

Look at the profiles & you'll see that MS who tried to break into movies which was why he left SG in the first place, came back running with his tail between his legs after less than a year because he flopped. JF & DH also aren't anything near B grade simply because they work on StarGate every week & have done low grade stuff before it. Most mainstream audiences either haven't ever heard Stargate or don't take it seriously. Hence why it's only a 1.5 on average. P McG has done just about the same as those 2, if not more. So he's definitely in the same class bracket which is around the D mark.

As for putting Cliff Simon in the same grouping as P McG, which is fairly laughable at best. Utterly ridiculous at worst. Take a look at what he has done, Stargate, 1 episode of Nash Bridges. A small role in a D-List action movie that's over 7 years old & some tv soap back home that he only got because he won a contest. Hardly C-List material if I do say so myself.

A-List are all the big hollywood celebs.
B-List are all the recent fallen stars, like Wesley Snipes, JCVD, Steven Seagal, Dolph Lundgren, Bruce Campbell.
C-List are the ones who used to make the B grade in their heyday but have fallen & now take any roles that are thrown to them like Ruger Hauer, Gary Busey & the like. They churn out like 5/10 movies a year simply to get as much moiney as they can.

D-List is where virtually all the main Stargate cast fall into.

Z-List is where Cliff Simon would slot into.

Bottom line, getting rid of Beckett is a huge mistake. Which I'm sure will come back to bite them in their dumb asses big time!

[Arctic Goddess]

OY....a little angry are we?

I can't disagree with some of your comments....but don't diss my Cliff.

He is a very good actor and has quite an impressive background in other things. And the man is in amazing shape for someone in their 40's.

As for the listings, I'm just giving you the information that was given to me. If you have other insider information that I am not aware of, more power to you.

[Jersey13]

Yeah, I think she's angry.... She has a right to be, with everything that's slated to happen to Beckett. But don't take it the wrong way, AG. I don't think she really meant to diss CS... At least, I hope not. Personally, I like him. I'm thinking that the point she was trying to make was that CS's character is considered a recurring role, whereas PM is actually a regular in the show and seems to have a little more experience in the field of drama, and so it might not be fair to put them in quite the same category. He's a wonderful villian, though.

And if I was ever going to be a special guest star in SGA, I'd wanna be a villian. Definitely. It's gotta be fun to be a villian!

[Arctic Goddess]

The best thing to do is use the energy you may be wasting on anger to a productive end. Write letters and get all your friends to write letters to Bridge Studios to complain. And, old fashioned snail mail is more effective than e-mails because e-mails can be faked. While real letters take time and effort and are, therefore, worth more to the producers.

[leelakin]

The best thing to do is use the energy you may be wasting on anger to a productive end. Write letters and get all your friends to write letters to Bridge Studios to complain. And, old fashioned snail mail is more effective than e-mails because e-mails can be faked. While real letters take time and effort and are, therefore, worth more to the producers.

I wrote my letter just today (at 4am without sleeping *lol*)! It's 2 pages, but I did some serious cramming on the second page. XD I wonder if they even read the letters, probably not. But at least they can SEE that there are a lot of letters about Carson.

[Arctic Goddess]

I wrote my letter just today (at 4am without sleeping *lol*)! It's 2 pages, but I did some serious cramming on the second page. XD I wonder if they even read the letters, probably not. But at least they can SEE that there are a lot of letters about Carson.

From my understanding, yes, they do read them. They are as aware as the actors that the fans are the reason they have a paycheck. We do have a lot of power. Every letter counts. And even if nothing changes, Paul McGillion will know how much his fans fought for him. Isn't that worth it, to know that Paul is aware of your love for him? Really. he is the one that matters the most.