Carson Beckett/Paul McGillion Thunk Thread

[meezergater]

Well, i am back from hospital and have now a nice white plaster on my foot up till my knee.
x-ray said a little bone in my foot is broken and now i have to hobble allong 3 weeks or so with this.
*aaarrgghh*, live is not fair.

fortunately it is not that painfull (yet) but my foot is about 2-3 times the normal size and has some nice purple and yellow collours.
But i am so clumsey now hobbeling along in house and everything goes sooo slow. (*whine*)

If someone has a nice carsonfix tonite it would be more then welcome. (*snif*)

btw, nice Luciana, Paul with glasses) a whole different look.

(Meez shuffles of to lay in her bed with the foot high up, feeling very sorry for herself and watching an old stargate episode on RTL2;

[Luciana]

Well, i am back from hospital and have now a nice white plaster on my foot up till my knee.
x-ray said a little bone in my foot is broken and now i have to hobble allong 3 weeks or so with this.
*aaarrgghh*, live is not fair.

fortunately it is not that painfull (yet) but my foot is about 2-3 times the normal size and has some nice purple and yellow collours.
But i am so clumsey now hobbeling along in house and everything goes sooo slow. (*whine*)

I'm sorry to hear that! How did it happen?
I've never had a broken bone, so I don't know how it feels.

I'm watching Stargate on RTLII as well!

Did you see the "fiancé" gif I posted?

[miss_kaylee]

Well, i am back from hospital and have now a nice white plaster on my foot up till my knee.
x-ray said a little bone in my foot is broken and now i have to hobble allong 3 weeks or so with this.
*aaarrgghh*, live is not fair.

fortunately it is not that painfull (yet) but my foot is about 2-3 times the normal size and has some nice purple and yellow collours.
But i am so clumsey now hobbeling along in house and everything goes sooo slow. (*whine*)

If someone has a nice carsonfix tonite it would be more then welcome. (*snif*)

btw, nice Luciana, Paul with glasses) a whole different look.

(Meez shuffles of to lay in her bed with the foot high up, feeling very sorry for herself and watching an old stargate episode on RTL2;

I hope you get to feeling better. I am sorry to hear about your foot.

[Luciana]

*yaaaaay*

Spoiler:

my "*yay* he's back" art

[Fainne]

*yaaaaay*

Spoiler:

my "*yay* he's back" art

*-*

I'm watching Stargate on RTLII as well!

AAAAh.. why didn't you tell me that they rerun the 8th season?... I switched on RTL2 just by chance... aaaaah!!! my chance to watch seasons 8-10 and refresh my knowledge xD

I'm off for today - Have a good night!!!

I hope your leg is better soon - Meezer. Shall I send Carson over to you? *emergency announcement: Dr. Carson Beckett - your medical skills are required. I repeat: Dr. Carson Beckett come as fast as possible to Meezer's place! Over and out"

[meezergater]

yup, i saw the fiance animation. Superzeitlupe nicht) Nice work)

i saw a dog's breakfast. Had some great scenes in it, esp. the kung fu bit and i laughed my head of seeing Paul as a woman. *grinn*.
But very english humor indeed. Isn't Hewlett a UK native too?

About the foot, i got a shopping car loaded with wooden gardentiles on my foot on monday. stormy weather blew the car out of my hands and toppled it on my left foot.
actually this (small) broken bone didn't hurt to bad . I didn't think anything would be broken when i went for x-rays, since it didn't hurt that much (yet i guess, since my foot is double the size of a normal foot and very collourfull).
don't know if it will start to hurt when the swelling goes down.

at the moment it is only very inconvinient since i cannot walk properly on it or put presure on my foot and i am absolutely a disaster on cruches. I almost broke my neck twice this afternoon trying to feed the rabbits outside. (the fact that it is still stormy weather out here didn't help either).

I am just glad the kid will be in daycare all day tomorrow and friday, so i can get my foot up a little bit more the next days. (and linger on the thunk thread *grinn*)
Dari, my 3 year old son, was just a bundle of explosives today, between the bad weather outside (which prevented him to play with his tractor outside) and his hopelessly shuffeling mom)

my sister could only laugh about it (the evil thing) and wondered why i had just a plain white cast when those things appearantly come in a wonderfull aray of striking collours. (didn't even know that, will ask for it the next time i assured her).
And my dear husband only could complain withouth any mercy, why i just had to break my foot when he was in his bussiest time of the year with work. (he said that at least 2 times).
And then had the frame of mind to ask me who would bring Dari to daycare tomorrow. (on which i showed him my cast and said sarcasticly that sure i would hop in the car and bring the kid, no problem). On which his following question was if he would have to pick Dari also up again in the evening from said daycare. (by then i was starting to worry about his eyesight and the general workday he had today).
He brought me nice cup of tea though after dinner, the dear)

MEN!!! (*sigh*)

well hopping into bed now, its late.
At least i can dream of Carson)

[meezergater]

AAAAh.. why didn't you tell me that they rerun the 8th season?... I switched on RTL2 just by chance... aaaaah!!! my chance to watch seasons 8-10 and refresh my knowledge xD

) i was a bit dissapointed by the old episodes.
i was convinced they would go right through to season four after last weeks end of season 3.
but i guess they are determined to spread it out)

wednesday evening on RTL2 is one of my favourites, they show Stargate, andromeda and Galactica from eight untill midnight)
fortunately we can also get the german Premiere Scifichannel over the satelite which has its fair share of star trek, older stargate episodes and heroes, also some good scifi films now and then)

Fianne, sure send him in)
at least Carson has a great bedsite manner) (*dream*)

[Luciana]

i saw a dog's breakfast. Had some great scenes in it, esp. the kung fu bit and i laughed my head of seeing Paul as a woman. *grinn*.
But very english humor indeed. Isn't Hewlett a UK native too?

Spoiler:

And Pauls accent is so hilarious.
Can't get enough of that.

When he said "charming" in "Phantoms"...
*squeak*

I didn't think anything would be broken when i went for x-rays, since it didn't hurt that much (yet i guess, since my foot is double the size of a normal foot and very collourfull).
don't know if it will start to hurt when the swelling goes down.

Maybe it's a mood food and it'll change its color.

So, get well soon.
I know, it isn't easy with a 3 year old son. Got a 4 year old nephew and he's pretty ... awake...
Your husband should bring you a cup of tea everyday!

Time for bed!

[jetflair]

This is a very interesting discussion, and one I could go on and on about. What strikes me as interesting about SGA in general is that while it's "light" entertainment with little graphic violence, good guys always win, etc. - it's actually an incredibly ethically dark show, and I'm not sure they even know it!

They obviously consider themselves the ethical good guys of the galaxy, but there are so many things:

- Repeated medical experimentation on prisoners
- Collaborating with the wraith to produce humans who will then be fed upon
- Intention to starve a prisoner to death
- Shooting an unarmed prisoner in a holding cell to death as a form of torture
- Willingness to torture one of their own in Critical Mass, with full military and leadership approval
- Repeated willingness on the parts of some team members to mess with and/or steal ZPMs and weapons guarding other cultures from the wraith
- Creating and implementing bioweapons
-Using nuclear bombs without hesitation
- Reluctance to help rescue civilians from a wraith culling (Letters from Pegasus)
- Converting a hundred prisoners to human form, then blowing them up

There is often someone to voice a concern - but it's almost token, as in McKay's "funny" line, "We could start by not incinerating them all."

It's either complete obliviousness for the sake of clever plot writing, or a pretty intelligent social observation, in that those who do horrible things rarely think *they* are the evil ones, especially if they feel their intentions are good. I'm more inclined to think clueless oblivion Which, I suppose, is the social observation in itself.

I wonder too whether shows that are very, very dark and ethically twisted, in combination with real life events, are dulling our sense of shock at ethical violations. The very dark shows like, say, 24, at least foster a sense that they know what they are portraying is wrong. But when we get used to seeing these things, then suddenly it's not so out of place for the cute, loyal, beloved hero to shoot down an unarmed prisoner without blinking, and we aren't even asked to question his ethics for it.

[jetflair]

Re Carson's involvement in some of these things.....

I'm not too inclined to shift a huge amount of responsibility to leadership. Carson was the one coming up with the ideas, doing the research, and being willing to carry out experiments. He was part of a caring and trusting team, Wier and Sheppard wouldn't have shot him if he said, "no, I'm not going forward with this." Carson is not such a weak character that I think him incapable of standing up to them if it was important to him.

The thing is, like many people involved with things that go horribly wrong, his intentions were good. And I think his compassion and good intentions proved to be his own downfall. Gentle soul that he is, he looks at a wraith and sees the human that needs to be rescued from its unnatural state. He sees the Hoffans struggle and dedication, and wants to protect the galaxy from the wraith while helping them.

I think Carson inherently likes human beings so much that he doesn't have the coldness to say, "I'm not going to help because it breaches medical ethics." He wants to help and takes the clearest paths he sees....which has landed him in major trouble.

So - I think Carson's actions are his own responsibility, but I also love him for having such a pure heart. He's learning. He's paid dearly for his mistakes.

[Reiko]

This is a very interesting discussion, and one I could go on and on about. What strikes me as interesting about SGA in general is that while it's "light" entertainment with little graphic violence, good guys always win, etc. - it's actually an incredibly ethically dark show, and I'm not sure they even know it!

<spoiler'd for length>

Spoiler:

They obviously consider themselves the ethical good guys of the galaxy, but there are so many things:

- Repeated medical experimentation on prisoners
- Collaborating with the wraith to produce humans who will then be fed upon
- Intention to starve a prisoner to death
- Shooting an unarmed prisoner in a holding cell to death as a form of torture
- Willingness to torture one of their own in Critical Mass, with full military and leadership approval
- Repeated willingness on the parts of some team members to mess with and/or steal ZPMs guarding other cultures from the wraith
- Creating and implementing bioweapons
-Using nuclear bombs without hesitation
- Reluctance to help rescue civilians from a wraith culling (Letters from Pegasus)
- Converting a hundred prisoners to human form, then blowing them up

There is often someone to voice a concern - but it's almost token, as in McKay's "funny" line, "We could start by not incinerating them all."

It's either complete obliviousness for the sake of clever plot writing, or a pretty intelligent social observation, in that those who do horrible things rarely think *they* are the evil ones, especially if they feel their intentions are good. I'm more inclined to think clueless oblivion Which, I suppose, is the social observation in itself.

I wonder too whether shows that are very, very dark and ethically twisted, in combination with real life events, are dulling our sense of shock at ethical violations. The very dark shows like, say, 24, at least foster a sense that they know what they are portraying is wrong. But when we get used to seeing these things, then suddenly it's not so out of place for the cute, loyal, beloved hero to shoot down an unarmed prisoner without blinking, and we aren't even asked to question his ethics for it.

By 'they' you mean the producers and the general audience, right? (In the first paragraph) I think SGA handled the ethically grey areas well in the first three seasons - it touched on the issues without getting too dark/serious as other shows do. While it may not have been a part of a major debate in the episode, if an action the expedition was considering was morally questionable was brought up. It didn't happen in every episode, but some episodes had a very big scene(s) regarding it like Poisonign the Well or Michael.

(And about the Michael experiment; I do believe Carson was pressured greatly to do it but hoped something would come good out of it. In Allies he said "I developed this retrovirus for the Wraith, it was to free them from what I perceived to be an unnatural state." Meaning, that when he figured out the Wraith were part human, he began to look at it more as an illness or defect which he learned most definately was not true. Just my interpretation.)

As for "it's not so out of place for the cute, loyal, beloved hero to shoot down an unarmed prisoner without blinking, and we aren't even asked to question his ethics for it" is a very true statement these days, and I think the lack of ethical follow-up is a very large contributor to the desensitization of violence these days. You just can't ignore that. More than often it is shrugged off simply as: "it was neccessary". Things that would not be allowed to air thirty years ago are commonplace now.

Because of people slowly becoming desensitisized towards violence, filmmakers/etc. are compelled to push the limits to make things bloodier, more brutal - better, than ever before. Thinking about it, this actually rubs off to SGA in a little bit of a different way - the need to "shake things up" by kiling characters. That's subpar writing, killing characters to "shake things up". It's kind of like the "Saw" or other horror movies in which you just keep escalating the gore and death because the audience begins to get jaded.

A little long and perhaps a little OT there. I hope it made sense.

[miss_kaylee]

As for "it's not so out of place for the cute, loyal, beloved hero to shoot down an unarmed prisoner without blinking, and we aren't even asked to question his ethics for it" is a very true statement these days, and I think the lack of ethical follow-up is a very large contributor to the desensitization of violence these days. You just can't ignore that. More than often it is shrugged off simply as: "it was neccessary". Things that would not be allowed to air thirty years ago are commonplace now.

Because of people slowly becoming desensitisized towards violence, filmmakers/etc. are compelled to push the limits to make things bloodier, more brutal - better, than ever before. Thinking about it, this actually rubs off to SGA in a little bit of a different way - the need to "shake things up" by kiling characters. That's subpar writing, killing characters to "shake things up". It's kind of like the "Saw" or other horror movies in which you just keep escalating the gore and death because the audience begins to get jaded.

A little long and perhaps a little OT there. I hope it made sense.

Your 100% right. I order movies for a video store. It is amazing how much of market there is for gory horror movies. Once in awhile, I will come across a thriller with no gore but 90% of the time it blood, guts and boobs. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Scream movies start a tread where big star dies in the first scene. With tv shows, killing main cast member seem to be the big thing. LOST and Heroes does it all the time. It gotten to the point where the effect of shock of killing a main person is getting old.

[jetflair]

By 'they' you mean the producers and the general audience, right? (In the first paragraph) I think SGA handled the ethically grey areas well in the first three seasons - it touched on the issues without getting too dark/serious as other shows do. While it may not have been a part of a major debate in the episode, if an action the expedition was considering was morally questionable was brought up. It didn't happen in every episode, but some episodes had a very big scene(s) regarding it like Poisonign the Well or Michael.

(And about the Michael experiment; I do believe Carson was pressured greatly to do it but hoped something would come good out of it. In Allies he said "I developed this retrovirus for the Wraith, it was to free them from what I perceived to be an unnatural state." Meaning, that when he figured out the Wraith were part human, he began to look at it more as an illness or defect which he learned most definately was not true. Just my interpretation.)

As for "it's not so out of place for the cute, loyal, beloved hero to shoot down an unarmed prisoner without blinking, and we aren't even asked to question his ethics for it" is a very true statement these days, and I think the lack of ethical follow-up is a very large contributor to the desensitization of violence these days. You just can't ignore that. More than often it is shrugged off simply as: "it was neccessary". Things that would not be allowed to air thirty years ago are commonplace now.

Because of people slowly becoming desensitisized towards violence, filmmakers/etc. are compelled to push the limits to make things bloodier, more brutal - better, than ever before. Thinking about it, this actually rubs off to SGA in a little bit of a different way - the need to "shake things up" by kiling characters. That's subpar writing, killing characters to "shake things up". It's kind of like the "Saw" or other horror movies in which you just keep escalating the gore and death because the audience begins to get jaded.

A little long and perhaps a little OT there. I hope it made sense.

By "they" I think I mostly meant the writers/producers, but that blitheness rubs off on the audience, too."

Perfect sense. I agree with you completely about the Michael experiment, that's kind of what I was getting at when talking about Carson letting his sense of compassion get in the way of a "colder" medical ethics view. Ethics would tell him not to do it - but seeing as he believed he was freeing the wraith from an unnatural and unpleasant state, he acted more on his sense of compassion rather than stepping away and saying, "wait, this is wrong." He didn't expect Micheal to be angry, or to feel violated at being made something he was not.

The desensition of violence is a tricky topic. I almost wonder if part of our affininty for violence is the *need* to keep ourselves desensitized. Violence is a very real part of the world, and if we can morph it, or at least our thoughts of it, into entertainment, perhaps it helps us cope with and deminish the horror of the real thing. I can't watch graphic violence personally, although I know many who can, and I can't say they are cold, violent, or uncaring people.

What almost bothers me more is the loss of a moral compass, because it's not just happening in fiction, but in real life. It's a reflection on how we (Americans) are starting to behave. To take the example under discussion, torturing/shooting a helpless, unarmed prisoner. A while back that would have been horrifying - a shocking violation of everything that's honorable and just. Now it's shrugged off. "Well - he was the enemy!"

I'll freely admit I adore John Sheppard - he's my other favorite Atlantis character, and I like him despite his flaws. But I do think it's significant that he's the favorite character, and nobody seems the least bit bothered by the very dark, very wrong things he's done. Again - I like him. I think he's learning. I think he's a far more honorable, caring person thanks to some of the experiences he's had over the course of the show. It's just a little disturbing

Your 100% right. I order movies for a video store. It is amazing how much of market there is for gory horror movies. Once in awhile, I will come across a thriller with no gore but 90% of the time it blood, guts and boobs. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Scream movies start a tread where big star dies in the first scene. With tv shows, killing main cast member seem to be the big thing. LOST and Heroes does it all the time. It gotten to the point where the effect of shock of killing a main person is getting old.

I sooooooo agree with you about the "shock" getting old. Wash's death, anyone? That wasn't brilliant writing, that was a cheap trick to play on emotions and try to make the audience feel more suspense during the final sequences of the movie. (Sorry - Firefly reference). Acts of violence - whether they be killing a main character, using torture, the tragic death of an innocent, whatever - are an easy way to create tension in a story. But only so long as we care. And after killing beloved characters etc. becomes so commonplace it's a trend, it's no longer shocking. It's hard for it to be a valid story device and becomes irritating, boring, sickening, and predictable.

What it comes down to for me is that I would rather watch a beautifully told story that triggers genuine emotion and entertains me than be shocked. I don't want tp be shocked, I want to be entertained. And this comes back to Carson, because he is one of those beautifully told characters who inspires genuine feeling and love.

Carson is as far away from the "shock value" style of writing as you get. He's genuine and caring and funny and intelligent. Instead of appealing to our emotions by bludgeoning them, he appeals to them with warmth.

One of my favorite Carson moments is when he's talking to the Genii "hostage" in Atlantis - that scene caught me right in the heart because Carson was so deeply - caring isn't even the right word. He cut through the human tensions of that situation with such incredible kindness, and bafflement that she would be in such a position. That was a scene with incredible emotional power, no violence, no shock value, no cheap theatrics needed.

[miss_kaylee]

By "they" I think I mostly meant the writers/producers, but that blitheness rubs off on the audience, too."

Perfect sense. I agree with you completely about the Michael experiment, that's kind of what I was getting at when talking about Carson letting his sense of compassion get in the way of a "colder" medical ethics view. Ethics would tell him not to do it - but seeing as he believed he was freeing the wraith from an unnatural and unpleasant state, he acted more on his sense of compassion rather than stepping away and saying, "wait, this is wrong." He didn't expect Micheal to be angry, or to feel violated at being made something he was not.

The desensition of violence is a tricky topic. I almost wonder if part of our affininty for violence is the *need* to keep ourselves desensitized. Violence is a very real part of the world, and if we can morph it, or at least our thoughts of it, into entertainment, perhaps it helps us cope with and deminish the horror of the real thing. I can't watch graphic violence personally, although I know many who can, and I can't say they are cold, violent, or uncaring people.

What almost bothers me more is the loss of a moral compass, because it's not just happening in fiction, but in real life. It's a reflection on how we (Americans) are starting to behave. To take the example under discussion, torturing/shooting a helpless, unarmed prisoner. A while back that would have been horrifying - a shocking violation of everything that's honorable and just. Now it's shrugged off. "Well - he was the enemy!"

I'll freely admit I adore John Sheppard - he's my other favorite Atlantis character, and I like him despite his flaws. But I do think it's significant that he's the favorite character, and nobody seems the least bit bothered by the very dark, very wrong things he's done. Again - I like him. I think he's learning. I think he's a far more honorable, caring person thanks to some of the experiences he's had over the course of the show. It's just a little disturbing



I sooooooo agree with you about the "shock" getting old. Wash's death, anyone? (Sorry - Firefly reference). Acts of violence - whether they be killing a main character, using torture, the tragic death of an innocent, whatever - are an easy way to create tension in a story. But only so long as we care. And after killing beloved characters etc. becomes so commonplace it's a trend, it's no longer shocking. It's hard for it to be a valid story device and becomes irritating, boring, sickening, and predictable.

What it comes down to for me is that I would rather watch a beautifully told story that triggers genuine emotion and entertains me than be shocked. I don't want tp be shocked, I want to be entertained. And this comes back to Carson, because he is one of those beautifully told characters who inspires genuine feeling and love.

Carson is as far away from the "shock value" style of writing as you get. He's genuine and caring and funny and intelligent. Instead of appealing to our emotions by bludgeoning them, he appeals to them with warmth.

One of my favorite Carson moments is when he's talking to the Genii "hostage" in Atlantis - that scene caught me right in the heart because Carson was so deeply - caring isn't even the right word. He cut through the human tensions of that situation with such incredible kindness, and bafflement that she would be in such a position. That was a scene with incredible emotional power, no violence, no shock value, no cheap theatrics needed.

Carson is a rare character in fiction that shows compassion. I think that is one of the reason why he is so loved by many. He reminds you of your brother, best friend, dad, grandfather, favorite teacher, etc. It was sad that he had to be a victim of shock death. I noticed in other sci fi shows, all their characters are the same. It get so boring seeing the same thing over and over. Carson is a gem you can't replace no matter how hard you try.

[jetflair]

Carson is a rare character in fiction that shows compassion. Carson is a gem you can't replace no matter how hard you try.

Amen.

*hugs Carson for a very long time*