Wraith Defenders Club

[LiquidSky]

You took these in grade 10 and 11? I teach both plays. Midsummer for...nine or is it ten years? Now the Bard was a lot of things (certainly a lech, an old fart and had a wicked tongue, but never a science fiction writer). Shakespeare, a science fiction writer hmm--I wonder what his teleplays would look like?

WK

I remember watching a TV program about the fascination on Star Trek. I can't remember what the name of the program was. There were interviews with William Shatner, Patrick Stewart and a bunch of other actors who were on ST. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that either Shatner or Stewart said that if Shakespeare were alive today his stories would be close to Star Trek. Now if Shakespeare were alive today would he write SF and compare to ST? I can think of one ST movie "The Wrath of Khan". Do you think that ST or SGA for that matter has any Shakespearean comparison?

LS

[MCH]

The only thing that makes any kind of sense is if the Iratus bugs were there before the Ancients arrived to seed Pegasus with humans. This now raises more questions.

1: What did Iratus bugs feed on before humans turned up?

2 Why did feeding on humans cause some bug lines to evolve into Wraith?

3: Why haven't all bugs in Pegasus evolved into hybrids of whatever they feed on?

Here's a suggestion.

Iratus bugs and their natural prey would have evolved together. When a queen feeds on natural prey its DNA doesn't effect any egg she lays even if it's straight after a meal. Human DNA, however, is alien to the Pegasus galaxy so it does cause a mutation in an egg embryo if a queen lays an egg straight after a meal.

Now that make sense alien DNA mutating and Iratus bug eggs.

Reminds me about the debate going on about GM foods. That is should we have them and what would GM treated seeds do the the local natural foral and fauna. - (please don't start the GM dabate here).

MCH

[ciannwn]

From what I could see of Micheal's creations, which were not successful, the anthropoid iratuses did not fully transform into humans. They remained a type of large insect without reason, for the most part.

From 'Vengeance' -

MICHAEL (voiceover): The embryo then contained enough human D.N.A. for me to manipulate.

MICHAEL (voiceover): I accelerated the development, augmenting the complexity of its physiology. There were several adjustments, several mistakes ...

MICHAEL (voiceover): ... until I finally found the perfect balance between strength, agility and resilience.

MICHAEL: A perfect animal to do my bidding.

It seems that Michael wasn't intending to create new, intelligent Wraith. He was after an obedient (to him) animal with a particular balance of strength, agility and resilience and he ended up with a human sized creature. I've tried to find a pic of one but they were never shown clearly and I'm having problems making out what's on thumbnails when much of the action took place in gloom. I'll just have to go by the transcript here.

Suddenly something roars and surges out of a side door, seizing Ronon and slamming him against the wall. John spins around and sees a large black creature -- at least as tall as Ronon and standing on two legs -- grappling with Ronon.

Why did Michael abandon this approach and start turning humans into hybrids instead?

'In story' speculation -

Humans have hands for weapons and very complex brains. Maybe turning his super-cockroaches into more efficient servants would have required a super-cockroach queen feeding on a human so there was more DNA to manipulate in a second generation. Perhaps it would even have required a third generation before he could get what he wanted. If so, turning humans into hybrids would have been a lot quicker.

Plot device reason. When Rachel Luttrell became pregnant TPTB came up with the Teyla pregnancy story arc. They needed Kanaan to be alive so Teyla could persuade him to help her and, later on, look after the baby so she could stay in Sheppard's team. This would have been impossible if Michael was still producing followers by feeding humans to Iratus bugs because lunch always ended up dead. The problem was solved by having Michael switch his activities to transforming humans into hybrids.

One of the main things that distinguishes insects from humans is their size and their inability to grow very large. An insect cannot grow any larger than I think it's the rhino beetle of Central America? Anyhow, no larger than a large man's hand. They do not have the breathing apparatus to surface area ratio. The way an insect's breathing system is set up prevents it from growing very large. However, in vertebrates our oxygen is carried to all parts of our body through our blood.

This is an article on the world's largest insects.

http://ufbir.ifas.ufl.edu/chap30.htm#gallery

The largest is 16.7 cms long (which is just over six and a half inches). There's also two pics of large insects being weighed with the researcher close to the scales. This gives an idea of scale.

This pic shows the Iratus bug which attached itself to Sheppard.

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/1...l/104x423.html

This is Teyla's bug in 'Vengeance'.

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s3/3...eance0620.html

The Iratus bugs appear to be a bit bigger than real life bugs but they certainly aren't Wraith sized. They only started evolving into much larger creatures after acquiring the DNA of a vertebrate with a circulatory system and breathing apparatus that allowed it to be big.

Beckett on Steve's death.

BECKETT: Initial tests revealed a significant amount of Hoffan serum in his bloodstream. I'm guessing we'll find similar trace amounts in each of his organs once we analyse those as well.

This suggests that Wraith have a vertebrate's blood circulatory system because they evolved to be vertebrates.

This is why mammals grow as large as they do. Hence the reason the wraith must be mammals. The pure definitional difference between mammals and insects is their breathing apparatus and size.

Not all vertebrates are mammals.

http://www.kidport.com/RefLib/Scienc...imalIndexV.htm

Vertebrates include fish, amphibians, reptiles and birds. Ostriches are the largest living birds and they can afford to be big because they don't fly. They are also warm blooded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfact...iles/477.shtml

Statistics
7ft (1.75-2.75m) tall, males up to 150kg, females 90-110kg, Stride length: 3-5m.

Wraith are vertebrates but this doesn't automatically mean they have to be mammals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammal

Mammals (formally Mammalia) are a class of vertebrate animals whose name is derived from their distinctive feature, mammary glands, which they use in feeding their young. They are also characterized by the possession of sweat glands, hair, three middle ear bones used in hearing, and a neocortex region in the brain.

It's likely that Wraith have something like sweat glands for regulating body temperature.

http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/i.../coldwarm.html

Only mammals can sweat. Primates, such as humans, apes and monkey, have sweat glands all over their bodies. Dogs and cats have sweat glands only on their feet. Whales are mammals who have no sweat glands, but then since they live in the water, they don't really need them. Large mammals can have difficulty cooling down if they get overheated. This is why elephants, for example, have large, thin ears which loose heat quickly.

(Even though the above paragraph has typing errors it's on a NASA run website. )

We have no idea why Wraith have those facial slits, though.. If TPTB wanted to they could say that Wraith don't sweat because they lose excess heat through the facial slits and it's only when Beckett's retrovirus strips away the bug DNA that sweat glands develop. And why not? The retrovirus gives them human eyes, alters the bone structure of their heads and changes the colour and texture of their skin. This is canon because we've seen it on the telly.

Edit: On second thoughts, perhaps not because -

Spoiler:

Spike covered his facial slits with makeup in 'Vegas'.

Wraith might have three middle ear bones because their hearing seems to be like human hearing and they must have a neocortex region or something very similar. All that we can be certain of, though, is that they have hair.

From Instinct -

BECKETT: Now, there are many aspects of human physiology that are quite useful: bipedal motion, opposable thumbs, large brain capacity ... but the human digestive system serves no purpose in the adult Wraith. So why have one at all?

WEIR: Because they eat normal food when they're young?

BECKETT: Exactly! Then at some point, they lose the ability to sustain themselves with that food.

According to Stargate canon Wraith took on useful human characteristics. Producing milk to feed young mightn't have been useful for a species where there is only one female per hive. Can male Wraith produce milk?

Spoiler:

This could all hinge on whether or not Spike has nipples. If he doesn't then males don't produce milk unless there's a special cast of males for baby care.

So why is the Wraith language a derivation of Ancient? Beckett's idea in 'The Gift' isn't all that helpful.

BECKETT: My theory is that the Ancients unwittingly allowed humans to evolve on a planet with, uh, (he looks apologetically at John) insect species on it. At some point the insects fed on humans and somehow incorporated our DNA into theirs. The Wraith are an evolution of that combination.

Pegasus human language is also a derivative of Ancient but how would bug lunches know this language if they evolved in a far flung corner of Pegasus which the Ancients had forgotten about? Maybe the humans didn't evolve on the bug planet but moved there later on because it had a Stargate.

If Wraith evolved because the bugs had fed on Ancients they would surely possess the Ancient Technology Activation Gene. You'd think Beckett would have mentioned it if he'd found it during his research. Would the Ancients have continued to use this genetic key which was designed so that only their kind could activate/use certain technology once the war started or would they have come up with something else? We have no idea.

From the Stargate wiki -

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ancie...ctivation_gene

Spoiler:

Michael's Hybrids possibly possess the gene, because they were able to move a jumper and use it to infiltrate Atlantis's control room. This is possibly done by the gene therapy. Michael held Carson Beckett's clone prisoner for two years and had him work for him. He possessed the knowledge and Ancient gene of the original Beckett.

Wraith evolved from Iratus bugs which fed on humans because TPTB say so. This is canon unless they change their minds and say that the bugs evolved through feeding on Ancients or Wraith are the creation of a mad Ancient geneticist. It's possible for an Iratus bug egg containing human DNA to produce a creature as tall as Ronon because this happened in 'Vengeance'.

[ciannwn]

I think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of why science geeks like science fiction--not the "probable", but the "possible". There's no probable in Fantasy, which is fine, there is in Science Fiction.

A lot of things are impossible in Science Fiction which is why there's technobabble. The following explains what it's used for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technobabble

Technobabble's principal use in most science fiction, in particular more hard science fiction is to conceal the true (impossible) nature of materials, technologies or devices mentioned in the story, frequently because of a violation of the laws of physics as we know them. For example, a transporter in the Star Trek universe is said to have a "Heisenberg compensator", a nod to the fact that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle renders such a transporting device impossible.

As reality and somewhat serious projections about the future are important in hard sci-fi, technobabble can shield a narrative from the problems that occur when the science background of the writer runs up against many of the blunt realities facing space travel, such as the Special Theory of Relativity. A hard sci-fi universe has no "scientific" explanation for faster than light or FTL travel as none exists in science and few are conceivable, thus a technobabble "enabling device" is frequently used to get around the problem.

and

There are two forms of technobabble. The first form, mostly used in fiction, depends on jargon terms and story features that are specific or even exclusive to the story's universe. Stringing together a series of these elements to explain a problem or solution allows the author to easily craft a situation without having to depend on real-world laws to correlate to or confirm it. For example, a specialised form known as Treknobabble can be found in the various Star Trek television programs and movies. Other science fiction movies and literature have their own form of technobabble. This is often done because the concepts and items being talked about are fictional but necessary for the story. This form of technobabble amuses some viewers and puts off others.

The Gateworld forum is meant for Stargate fans and many Stargate fans are science fiction fans in general. The Science And Tech sub forum is so that Stargate fans can - Analyze the science and technology of Stargate. People in there happily discuss the science and technology of the Stargate universe even though it's science babble and technobabble to disguise the fact that this stuff is impossible in the real world. It's 'true' in the Stargate universe in the same way as Treknobabble is 'true' in the Star Trek universe.

'Doctor Who' came up with a versatile phrase in John Pertwee's era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_D...he_polarity.22

The catchphrase most associated with the Third Doctor's era is probably "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow". The phrase was Pertwee's way of dealing with the technobabble that he was required to speak as the Doctor. He wanted something all purpose and easy to remember instead of myriad made-up dialogue, and Terrance Dicks provided him with the phrase.

Many fans of the show believe that this is a scientific impossibility. In actuality, it is possible for neutrons to flow and, since neutrons have a magnetic moment,[2] it is possible in theory (although difficult in practice) to have a stream of neutrons polarised along or against their direction of motion. Given this, such a polarity could presumably be reversed. However, the phrase is still meaningless in the contexts in which the series uses it.

You haven't been speculating according to the "rules" (what rules?), because there aren't "rules" that's what we're talking about!!

Stargate universe science is babble science which is vaguely based on genuine science. Wraith evolved because some Iratus bugs fed on humans and absorbed human DNA. Even though this is complete nonsense in the real world is is 'true' in the fictional Stargate universe. The rules are that we have to speculate according to canon and the science babble which was thrown in to make it sound scientific Speculating on Wraith evolution and biology is a game where we can look at real science and then ask the question "If TPTB wanted to give further details about Wraith, which real world science could they get ideas from and then turn into babble science?"

but I don't know what TPTB is/are? --I hated, sorry no LOATHED, SG1, so I've never watched it. Does TPTB refer to that? I'm also not good with acronyms)

From the Gate World forum FAQ -

TPTB - The Powers That Be (producers, writers, network execs)

You took these in grade 10 and 11?

I'm in England where the educational system is a bit different. We have primary schools for kids up to the age of 11 and after that they move on to secondary schools. I was at a secondary Grammar school back in the 1960's and pupils could stay there until they were 17/18 and go on to university if they qualified.

Shakespeare, a science fiction writer hmm--I wonder what his teleplays would look like?

Shakespeare's historical plays are really history babble because they are not historically accurate. My guess is that he would have used science babble and technobabble too if he'd been a science fiction writer.

Have you considered that all wraith are one gender? The queens are just regular wraith in shiny dresses?

From 'No Man's Land'

McKAY: Oh. Beckett wondered if the females would be immune.

LORNE: Yeah. Something you might have mentioned before she almost killed me, Rodney.

Queens are definitely females because TPTB said so.

PS: Have fun with this technobabble generator.

http://everything2.com/e2node/Techno...%2520Generator

Seeing as each column starts with the word 'blank' I don't think we're obliged to use all four columns. I used three and am now wondering what an 'interphasic containment shell' is for. I wonder if Rodney knows.

[Starry Waters]

das, he answered you!!!!

DasNDanger writes: “I’m going to start early with questions for Mr. Cooper, lest I forget (asking a couple Wraith-related non-Vegas questions, too…if that’s okay):

1. In reply to a question of mine, Mr. Wright gave you most of the credit for the creation of the Wraith. So, first, THANK YOU. They are absolutely beautiful in style and design. Did you base their look on any insect in particular? If you care to share, what were some of your inspirations for their design?

2. The Vegas Wraith seemed to be nippleless. Was this the case, and if so, what was the thinking behind it - just going for a cool look, or was it yet another clue to their physiology?

3. In Vegas, when the Wraith is sitting in the trailer, flashing back to how he came to earth, he pulls off part of his mask and it’s in a star pattern, over his left eye, like Todd’s tattoo. Was that a bit of foreshadowing, or just a coincidence? We have speculated that he was sensing Todd’s thoughts, and visa versa…so at that moment was he reflecting Todd’s insanity, or just his own desperation?

4. In line with the above, how much - if any - mental contact did AU Todd and the other Wraith have? In your mind, was Todd ‘helping’ the other Wraith design the transmitter, or in any other way exchanging information with him?

5. Extra Wraith ‘nostrils’ - are they true nostrils, or more like sensory pits…or just sexy-cool holes in their face?

6. Wraith tattoos - just personal adornment, or do they have some significance?

7. I will try one last time…please, oh please…Wraith finger armor thingys - WHAT the hell are they for??!!! ”

RC: Mr. Wright was being generous. I was interested in putting a twist on the vampire mythology. James Robbins, our production designer and extraordinary artist, came up with much of the visual look. We always wanted them to have a dark goth-like quality.

We were amazed when we all looked back and realized that in five seasons we had never seen a wraith with his shirt off. We decided it was an opportunity to show subtle and not-so subtle differences.

The Wraith doesn’t actually pull off part of his mask — it was scraped off when he hit the ground after having jumped from the building. You don’t really see that side of his face after he falls. He’s just revealing it by lowering his hands. I wanted a shot that showed the fifty-fifty — highlighting the disguise and the real wraith look underneath. Plus, I thought it looked cool. My inspiration was a similar shot of the Joker from Tim Burton’s Batman.

Any visual connection to Todd was what we like to call a happy accident. I do think there was some mental link between them but never thought to draw that comparison as you suggested. Of course, I shouldn’t admit that. I don’t think Todd was necessarily helping him but I believe Todd was aware of what was going on and that’s why he was so confident he knew what was going to happen.

We thought the face-holes both looked alien and suggested an extra-sensory capability. I thought it made them look a bit like sharks which is kind of what they are — more intelligent feeding machines.

I think the tattoos could represent an association to a particular group or queen or an expression of individuality and an artistic decoration — another nod toward goth and gang style on Earth. You decide.

It’s a secret. Actually, James Robbins again deserves credit. They’re meant to be like rings. Decoration. James says he wanted the wraith to have culture. These little visual details add depth to the Wraith and make fans crazy about their meaning.

[Starry Waters]

Sparrow hawk, Cooper answered your questions too!

Sparrow_hawk writes: “I’ve started thinking about Vegas questions for Robert Cooper:

1. The first question related to the scene with Todd in the glass cell. McKay said that Todd was “a poet” but it seemed to me that Todd was describing what the other Wraith was seeing. Was there a telepathic link between the two and was Todd essentially seeing through the other Wraith’s eyes?

I loved the scenes of the Wraith putting on his makeup and then walking through the crowd, as well as the chase scene - heck I loved it all! But I especially enjoyed the way the music fit with the action, I and I always suspected that the Wraith would like hard rock/metal. How did you decide on the music that was used for those scenes? I guess “Sympathy for the Devil” is pretty obvious, but why the Marilyn Manson? “

RC: I’ve already said I think that Todd was seeing what the Wraith on the outside was experiencing. He was also insane, even by wraith standards. Interesting note for those debating the mind-reading powers of the wraith. The queen in Rising also guessed Sheppard’s name. The moment in Vegas where Todd does it is meant to be a call-back. I don’t think they can so much read minds as get in your head - like McKay says. But they do have some funky mental powers that would make them very good at poker.

I thought everyone just naturally assumed the wraith would listen to Marilyn Manson. I also would have loved to get a White Zombie song but I ran out of money. Many of you have wondered what the song is for the chase sequence. It’s Joel’s music. Pretty awesome.

[Starry Waters]

He answers a second set of das questions!

DasNDanger writes: “So, my question - when the so-called heroes of Atlantis engage in torture and talk of genocide against another race that they have deemed ‘the enemy’, what message do you think it sends in this day and age where real torture, and real genocide, is practiced against those who are considered a threat by those who justify their actions as the saviors of their people, if not of the whole world? Do you think it could have a desensitizing affect on our view of the real atrocities committed around the world, basically justifying the idea that - as long as we are the heroes - any and everything can be done to anyone who is perceived as a threat, all morality be damned?”

RC: When McKay said they “tried everything” to get information from Todd, he meant trick questions, bribery and ‘friendship’ therapy. Look, seriously, I don’t want to make light of something very serious and important. I am well aware of the reality of true horror that exists in the world. Unfortunately, without some form of escapism I think we’d all go completely insane. Quite frankly, I hope everyone recognizes this is just entertainment. I certainly hope it doesn’t have the impact you seem to be suggesting it might. But let’s say it does. I don’t believe I’m condoning torture in this episode. I’m just realistically representing that it happens in certain situations. Also, if we were about to be invaded by life-sucking aliens I would hope there are people who would find someway of stopping it. For the children. Having said all that, I’ll state for the record we should all make sure we don’t torture anyone today or ever. It’s very bad.

[Starry Waters]

He seems to like answering your questions, das. We should have given you all of them!!

[dasNdanger]

He seems to like answering your questions, das. We should have given you all of them!!

Thanks for posting all of that!!

Ya know, I'm thinking Joe probably paid him to answer my questions, just so I could stop bugging everyone about the finger armor thingys and all.

I am satisfied.



das

[Sparrow_hawk]

Yes, he answered a lot of Wraith related questions as well as the ones that related just to Vegas. I thought it was a good Q&A. I know a lot of you have been pretty disillusioned with Joe Mallozzi's blog, but you might want to stop by and just read the most recent one: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...our-questions/. Robert Cooper seems to put a lot of thought into his writing. Starry Waters quoted a lot of the Wraith related answers, but I thought all of it was pretty interesting.

[Sparrow_hawk]

Thanks for posting all of that!!

Ya know, I'm thinking Joe probably paid him to answer my questions, just so I could stop bugging everyone about the finger armor thingys and all.

I am satisfied.



das

das, you're sick. Go to bed!

[dasNdanger]

Hmmm...he didn't exactly answer the nipple thing, did he? By not answering, he - in affect - didn't disagree with my observation that he appeared to be nippleless.

Okay...someone really needs to re-ask that one, or we will forever be debating it!


das

[dasNdanger]

das, you're sick. Go to bed!

I had to stay up and watch The Mentalist - my NEW favorite show! (It was posponed due to the football game - just got over.)


I am happy with his answers. He confirmed that the Wraith was bluffing with that last hand of cards, too. I didn't read it all because of watching the show, but I did look over his Wraith-related answers. Glad he answered about the extra nostrils, and finger armor thingys, and tats. Good for us all around!




das

[Sparrow_hawk]

I had to stay up and watch The Mentalist - my NEW favorite show! (It was posponed due to the football game - just got over.)


I am happy with his answers. He confirmed that the Wraith was bluffing with that last hand of cards, too. I didn't read it all because of watching the show, but I did look over his Wraith-related answers. Glad he answered about the extra nostrils, and finger armor thingys, and tats. Good for us all around!




das

Dang! Was The Mentalist on tonight? I missed it. Isn't it on Thursday nights?
But, yes, I was very please with the answers tonight, too.


I've been lurking mostly for the past few days because I really didn't have anything to add to the discussions. But I did enjoy reading all of the cultural, historical, scientific and just plain silly stuff that has been posted.

Just for the record, I've always thought that this thread had a nice mix of serious and silly discussion. There are a lot of very bright, interesting and creative people here -- I am amazed at the diverse range of interests and knowledge that the members bring to this thread. Each of us has their own unique way of expressing himself/herself and I think that all of them, be they frivolous or factual, are equally valid.

[dasNdanger]

Dang! Was The Mentalist on tonight? I missed it. Isn't it on Thursday nights?

Yeah - it was a special ep because it's not going to be on Tuesday (regular night), I guess because of the inaug...the president thingy. I just realized I don't know how to spell that word...

But, yes, I was very please with the answers tonight, too.


I've been lurking mostly for the past few days because I really didn't have anything to add to the discussions. But I did enjoy reading all of the cultural, historical, scientific and just plain silly stuff that has been posted.

Just for the record, I've always thought that this thread had a nice mix of serious and silly discussion. There are a lot of very bright, interesting and creative people here -- I am amazed at the diverse range of interests and knowledge that the members bring to this thread. Each of us has their own unique way of expressing himself/herself and I think that all of them, be they frivolous or factual, are equally valid.

Yes - we do have a great mix here. Lately I just haven't been in the mood for deep discussions, mainly, I think, because I'm a bit depressed over Todd at the moment, and not knowing what will become of him. Trying not to love him too much, and all that. I've also had a running story in my head about Wraith - maybe I should try to write it down, though it is serious, thus I can't just make it a 'drabble', and I really don't have the patience for fan fic. Right now it's the story in my head that is keeping me great company at the moment...it's fairly comforting to have a Wraith live on in your brain.

And this one is a pretty one, too. He's based on that gorgeous picture of Kenny on the hive in The Queen - this one

Spoiler:

It's not Kenny, though. What I like about Tyler's Wraith look is that he's a bit sophisticated, like Steve, with Eddie's tendency to leer, along with a nice bit of 'huffiness' (I loves me some irritable Wraith!), and a subtle, not over-the-top snarl. Tyler's Wraith are very...snakelike...moreso than catlike...and I like that.

Anyway - if I ever decide to share the story in my head, you all will be the first to hear it. I might just put one scene to paper - I really do hate writing 'stories'...dialogue is so much easier! But much of this is not dialogue, but action - so I'd have to describe a lot of stuff that is SO much easier just visualizing in my head. At night. As I drift off to sleep...


das