Wraith Defenders Club

[Waldmaer]

Hi guys *waves* I'm back again with some pictures and news and dieing of nervousity *Can't wait till friday*
... um...I'm too sleepy to write the whole stuff again... But if you like you can take a look at my DA site ^-^
http://waldmaer.deviantart.com/
Make my life sweeter and leave comments °3°
bye

[MCH]

Hi Just off to bed but wanted to share this.

It's a dark night with swirling clouds of fog. Good visibility then no visibility. MCH is driving slowly home after an excellent meal out with friends as we put the world economic to rights. ....
(cue spooky Hammer horror type music as you all picture - a young female all alone- well youngish female... ok well maybe young in mind female in her car)....

MCH is coming up to the junction and the fog swirls around the car, visibility is not good....could see much at all..

As MCH looks left and then right she notices a tall figure looming out of the dank dark swirling fog on the passenger side of the car.

MCH looks again ....does a double take.... no that's not right....no no .... the figure is wearing a long black coat and has whitish hair......no no no.....

MCH checks one more time as the figure comes closer.... naw.... MCH sigh with relief .....
but drives off quickly just in case.

It was not a Wraith looming out of the fog..... unless the Wraith is wears a skimpy black leather mini skirt, black high heeled thigh length boots, a tiny cropped top, leaving midriff bear, and is wander around on a dark dank cold foggy night with her long black leather coat unfastened. I call that totally mad because it was just so cold. She must have been freezing.

But just for a minutes as she loomed out of the fog I thought a Wraith was coming for me.... and I hadn't been drinking either..... Some ending to my evening out.

Sweet Wraithie Dreams

MCH

[Wraith Cake]

Question: How long had Todd been in prison with the Genii?I think I have an answer!!

I have an insight. I was just watching Common Ground again for the umpteenth time, and this time I realize what Sheppard said to Todd when they were out looking for the Stargate:

Synopsis: Todd and Shepard have just lifted the grate to the underground prison. They've crawled through and Shepard asks Todd to lead him to the Stargate. After they have been travelling for about one hour, Todd collapses on the ground. Shepard decides they should rest.

S: "We should rest here for a few minutes"
T: "You should go on without me."
S: "Nooo! Gate's guarded. Better chance of taking out the guards in a crossfire. Still need ye...."
T: "Very well."
S: "That is if we're going in the right direction....[considers something for a moment, then realizes]
You have no idea what a stargate is do you?" [Todd looks both ashamed, guilty and looks like he feels stupid]
T: "It was many years ago." [he concedes. Then John feels really angry at himself for listening to a wraith. All his experience has taught him how treacherous they are. Now he acts like he feels stupid for even believing a wraith.]
S: "Way to go *JOHN*; listen to a wraith!!"
[Todd partially reveals his motives--that his lie was not meant as deception, but perhaps to save his pride. He doesn't consider humans smart enough to figure him out and is rather surprised, ashamed etc. when he is]
T: "It was not my intention to deceive you Shepard"

So, 1/ Todd wanders around with Shepard knowing full well he doesn't even know what a Stargate is, let alone "where" it is.
2/ He tells Shepard, when John realizes this, that he had no intention of deceiving him.

Therefore, Todd was being truthful when he said it was worth it just to see the sky again, because he never believed they would escape. So, when Shepard insists that Todd accompany him, Todd agrees knowing full well he has no idea what a stargate is.

This leads me to my next question: why would Todd continue the rouse? I think he wanted the company, I think he wanted to give Shepard hope even though it seems he believed Shepard would discover, as he had, that "there is no escape", and I think he knew he had nothing to loose so might as well keep going because Shepard insisted.

Thus, we can see that even when Todd had nothing left to loose he was "giving" to a human. He was giving to a human, and he's been imprisoned by the Genii before Stargate technology had been brought to that planet.

Again, this begs the question: "Well when did the ancients start putting Stargates on everyplanet?" I think it was seven or eight thousand years ago. (Does anyone else know?)

His ship must have crashed on the planet, all were lost except him, and the Genii came through the stargate andg found him and captured him. He may have been somewhere else when a Starate was installed, because the Genii do not have space travel technology, nor the technology to build a Stargate.

So, up to the point of Common Ground, Todd had no idea what a Stargate was. He confirms this when he says "it was many years ago". He's been on that planet for thousands of years!!!

WK

[Starry Waters]

Well thought out, but I think they are discussing the location of the gate, not what a gate is. Remember that the gate system was up in the Milky Way galaxy before they ever came to this galaxy, so it wasn't a recent invention. They'd even had time to change the gate style and get rid of the inner ring.

Here's the GW transcript:

KOLYA'S PLANET. John and the Wraith are making their way through the forest.

SHEPPARD: I was blindfolded all the way to the bunker. It wasn't this far.

WRAITH: If I could just move faster ...

(Trying to speed up, it groans and falls to its hands and knees in exhaustion.)

SHEPPARD: We'll rest here a few minutes.

WRAITH: You should go on without me.

SHEPPARD: No. The Gate's guarded. Got a better chance to take down the guards in a crossfire. I still need you.

WRAITH: Very well.

SHEPPARD: That is, even if we're going in the right direction. (He turns to face the Wraith.) You have no idea where the Stargate is, do you?

(The Wraith, still on its knees, slumps down.)

WRAITH: It was many years ago.

SHEPPARD (angrily): Way to go, John! Listening to a Wraith!

WRAITH: It was not my intention to deceive you, Sheppard.

(John glares at it, then is distracted as the radio he is holding activates.)

GUARD (over radio): Our reinforcements have arrived at the Stargate, Commander.

KOLYA (over radio): Kill the Wraith on sight, but I want Sheppard alive.

(John turns to the Wraith.)




I'd still like to know how long he was there though.

MCH, I loved your bedtime story. It was wonderful and also kind of spooky. LOL

[dasNdanger]

In the episode, John sounds as if he says, 'you have no idea WHAT a stargate is, do you?' - but he could be saying 'WHERE a stargate is' - thing is, he definitely says 'A', and not 'THE'. But I also think he says 'WHAT', not 'WHERE'.

Now - Todd may not know 'what a stargate is', because Wraith do not call it that. (Can anyone remember what they call it? I thought they had a different name for it.)

The Ancients had to seed the galaxy with stargates long before the Ancient/Wraith war - over 10,000 years ago. Why? Because Todd said that the Attero Device destroyed 'their precious stargates'. So, the gates were up and running before the War...and probably long before the war, since the War symbolized the end of the Ancient civilization. The gates would have been the product of the height of their civilization.

So, the gates may have been installed 11,000 years ago - 12, 13...20,000 years ago. It all depends on how long the Ancients ruled the galaxy (in the pilot, doesn't it show the Ancients leaving earth millions of years ago? Would this not suggest that the Ancients were in the Pegasus for - perhaps - millions of years? If not millions, then at least hundreds of thousands of years, I would assume).

das

[Wraith Cake]

Well thought out, but I think they are discussing the location of the gate, not what a gate is. Remeber that the gate system was up in the Milky Way galaxy before they ever came to this galaxy so it wasn't a recent invention. They'd even had time to change the gate style and get rid of the inner ring.

Here's the GW transcipt:

KOLYA'S PLANET. John and the Wraith are making their way through the forest.

SHEPPARD: I was blindfolded all the way to the bunker. It wasn't this far.

WRAITH: If I could just move faster ...

(Trying to speed up, it groans and falls to its hands and knees in exhaustion.)

SHEPPARD: We'll rest here a few minutes.

WRAITH: You should go on without me.

SHEPPARD: No. The Gate's guarded. Got a better chance to take down the guards in a crossfire. I still need you.

WRAITH: Very well.

SHEPPARD: That is, even if we're going in the right direction. (He turns to face the Wraith.) You have no idea where the Stargate is, do you?

(The Wraith, still on its knees, slumps down.)

WRAITH: It was many years ago.

SHEPPARD (angrily): Way to go, John! Listening to a Wraith!

WRAITH: It was not my intention to deceive you, Sheppard.

(John glares at it, then is distracted as the radio he is holding activates.)

GUARD (over radio): Our reinforcements have arrived at the Stargate, Commander.

KOLYA (over radio): Kill the Wraith on sight, but I want Sheppard alive.

(John turns to the Wraith.)




I'd still like to know how long he was there though. LOL

You must be reading from the transcript. Interesting. I wonder who develops these and posts them because the the episode itself says "you have no idea what a stargate is, do you?" not where. I have it here as I'm writing it. And again, I'm flipping back and forth between writing this and watching that segment of the episode again. Hmmm. Thinking about it, I've always thought Shepard said "where", but it struck me like lightning as I watched it an hour ago. Shepard also says "Way to go John, listen to a wraith!" (not listening) This "what", I think, makes better sense, now that I put the interaction between the two together. This is why Shepard is so angry with himself, and why Todd reacts the way he did.

Perhaps the scene is on Youtube.

Anyhow, take care.

WK

PS. I just realized, (I'm so bad about skimming) I went back and read your post--yes you did read the transcript. Duh! Sorry, I am in such a tizzy thinking about this new little tid bit.

[Starry Waters]

Okay. I pulled out my DVD and played it and it does sound like he accuses Todd of not knowing WHAT a gate is. To me that's just weird since they've been talking about the gate and it being guarded and John was just talking about the location of it right before the line. I wonder if he said his line wrong and they just let it go and figured no one would listen that close. LOL

They've let errors go out into final production before. For example, I love this one of the wraith dart losing it's muffler when it crashes.

Spoiler:

(Good catch though. I'll have to give your idea more thought.)

[Wraith Cake]

Okay. I pulled out my DVD and played it and it does sound like he accuses Todd of not knowing WHAT a gate is. To me that's just weird since they've been talking about the gate and it being guarded and John was just talking about the location of it right before the line. I wonder if he said his line wrong and they just let it go and figured no one would listen that close. LOL

It's not the first time they've done that kind of stuff. I love this one of the wraith dart losing it's muffler when it crashes.

Spoiler:

And the poor wraith flaked out dead in the cruiser Looks kind a hot though, even in death.

Well, I'm of two minds. I'll have to go and look at who develops the transcripts, but if they're anything like Buffy The Vampire Slayer, the fans would develop them and the studio would sanction them. They wouldn't be the actual script the writers read from. At the same time though, whatever his name is actor (can't think of his name off the top of my head) may have said "what" instead of "where". However, though the word change is small it is a significant meaning change. I don't know if he slipped on his lines "t" (stop sound) versus "r" and "e" (continuant). I know, I'm probably being fussy, but it does present interesting possibilities and possibly the reason Todd was in such despair. Darn, I want the interesting possibilities!!



WK

I've gone back and listened (Oh, I'm such a nerd ) to their conversation when they first come up out of the grate. Shepard says something about how far till we get to the gate. Todd doesn't answer, he simply says "It will be guarded"

So, for me what that implies is that perhaps Todd believed Shepard had a ship that had crashed somewhere and Todd could possibly fix it. Or it could mean that Todd just wanted Shepard's company. It's interesting though....

Also, Shepard asks Todd "how well do you know the layout of this place?" when they're in their respective cells. Todd responds by saying something about well enough to know what they're (Shep's pals) up against. Todd is acutely observant. If he is able to remember how to get out of the Genii prison after such a long time, it would also stand to reason he would remember where the Stargate was--if he knew what it was, what he was looking for.

going back to look some more.

[Starry Waters]

And the poor wraith flaked out dead in the cruiser Looks kind a hot though, even in death.

LOL Spoken like a true wraith lover.

Well, I'm of two minds. I'll have to go and look at who develops the transcripts,... it does present interesting possibilities and possibly the reason Todd was in such despair. Darn, I want the interesting possibilities!!

I like the interesting possiblities too and you've got me intrigued and wondering about it at this point. I think they have the scripts done by someone at Gateworld. I believe she was asking for help on one of the threads about something she couldn't make out in the last ep.

If he is able to remember how to get out of the Genii prison after such a long time, it would also stand to reason he would remember where the Stargate was--if he knew what it was, what he was looking for.

Good point because he is very smart. One possiblity is they've moved him around in the prison some, so he's more familiar with the layout (but that sounds kind of lame); they probably never take him outside.

GW doesn't like me to insert messages into the quotes. It wants something down here. Well off to bed. I'll think about it some more tomorrow. Keep me updated.

[Wraith Cake]

In the episode, John sounds as if he says, 'you have no idea WHAT a stargate is, do you?' - but he could be saying 'WHERE a stargate is' - thing is, he definitely says 'A', and not 'THE'. But I also think he says 'WHAT', not 'WHERE'.

Now - Todd may not know 'what a stargate is', because Wraith do not call it that. (Can anyone remember what they call it? I thought they had a different name for it.)

The Ancients had to seed the galaxy with stargates long before the Ancient/Wraith war - over 10,000 years ago. Why? Because Todd said that the Attero Device destroyed 'their precious stargates'. So, the gates were up and running before the War...and probably long before the war, since the War symbolized the end of the Ancient civilization. The gates would have been the product of the height of their civilization.

So, the gates may have been installed 11,000 years ago - 12, 13...20,000 years ago. It all depends on how long the Ancients ruled the galaxy (in the pilot, doesn't it show the Ancients leaving earth millions of years ago? Would this not suggest that the Ancients were in the Pegasus for - perhaps - millions of years? If not millions, then at least hundreds of thousands of years, I would assume).

das

I was so transfixed by this new possible insight that I went back and watched Rising Part I again and in it, it says "several million years ago" Something about the ancients living in the Pegasus Galaxy. Then of course the wheels went clicking (you can tell it's a Saturday and I have some time on my hands. lol). Now I've been thinking, "a couple" is two "a few" is three and "some" is four. Does several have to be more than seven or less than seven but more than four? Anyway, Todd said that he was there during the last fight between the ancients and the wraith, which was ten thousand years ago. He says he was there, I'm assuming as an adult not as a child. So, Todd could be older than 10,000 years.

So, the question I have is, is there a quotation from one of the episodes that indicates when the ancients started to put stargates (I nearly wrote "pubs" -- I think I need to go to the pub after this) on the planets. Or at the very least when they started to seed the planets with a human population.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

GW doesn't like me to insert messages into the quotes. It wants something down here. Well off to bed. I'll think about it some more tomorrow. Keep me updated.

I thought that too, about the layout on the inside. Then I thought, if I start with the assumption that Todd is a survivor and astutely observant then when he was caught he probably also noticed where the bunker was in relation to where he was caught. He was probably blind folded too, but because he has slit pupils this would indicate that his strongest sense is not his sense of sight. His strongest sense would probably be his sense of smell, since the wraith are predatory and they do have an extra pair of nostrils. The metal on the bunker doors would still be there (therefore the smell) and his crash site would have a distinct smell. So, all that this would involve is counting the number of steps.

There is something that does bother me: the Genii would not have had the technology 10,000 years ago to build such a bunker--the Genii may not even have existed. Perhaps, Todd was not originally a prisoner of the Genii; perhaps he was a serendipitous find. Perhaps he was originally a prisoner of the ancients. Ahhhh! now that WOULD make sense. Left there to rot, after they built a stargate to escape through.

Hate the Ancients.

WK

PS Oh Oh, last thing to say: There are little knots in Todd's hair. I know we've all said he probably twirls his hair around, but you can see that he twirls his hair around at the crown in little knots. He seems to have developed more of these little knots between the time he has last fed on Shepard and their plan to escape. He's been thinking a lot about what Shepard has said.

I also am thinking this new "what" situation also indicates that he's a rather "good" sort of person. He continues on with the rouse of looking for the Stargate though he knows he has no idea what a stargate is. I think it means he likes Shepard, and that he doesn't want to go through the feeling of hopelessness alone. Or perhaps he doesn't want to steal Shepard's hope.

Okay, I'm going to shut up now.

[dasNdanger]

I was so transfixed by this new possible insight that I went back and watched Rising Part I again and in it, it says "several million years ago" Something about the ancients living in the Pegasus Galaxy. Then of course the wheels went clicking (you can tell it's a Saturday and I have some time on my hands. lol). Now I've been thinking, "a couple" is two "a few" is three and "some" is four. Does several have to be more than seven or less than seven but more than four? Anyway, Todd said that he was there during the last fight between the ancients and the wraith, which was ten thousand years ago. He says he was there, I'm assuming as an adult not as a child. So, Todd could be older than 10,000 years.

So, the question I have is, is there a quotation from one of the episodes that indicates when the ancients started to put stargates (I nearly wrote "pubs" -- I think I need to go to the pub after this) on the planets. Or at the very least when they started to seed the planets with a human population.

WK

I am not aware of a time given as to when the gates were put into place (there may have been mention of it, and I just haven't noticed). But, if there has been no mention of it, perhaps SGU will tell us, since that show is about seeding the universe with stargates.

Oh, and Todd surely is older than 10,000. He may have been young - but he surely wasn't a child. He's been around a very long time...seen many things. But at the same time, the Wraith are very singularly-focused on feeding. So, though he has much knowledge of the galaxy, and science, he may not have any sort of appreciation for, or even exposure to, the arts.

When you think about it, that's how humans often define their existence. Every age is identified by its music, its style of dress, its art. It's often the very thing that motivates people to change, to keep seeking something new. But, as far as we know, the Wraith have no art, no music. Even their clothing changes little (considering Todd's old commander's coat in Common Ground isn't that much different than his new one). Of course, much of this has to do with the wardrobe dept., and from the questions I asked and the answers I got in return, I am under the impression that the person who created the Wraith fashions for the first 2 or 3 seasons is not the same person making them now, which probably accounts for the lack of variety we once saw, such as with Bob's costume, and Sleazy Eddie.

Anyway...so, even though Todd has lived for so long, he probably hasn't experienced the things that enrich our lives - human lives - such as music, arts, and entertainment. So, imagine living for 10,000+ years, with your sole focus being on finding new and more efficient ways to manage your herds. Todd, though ancient, surely has much yet to experience...if he's given the chance.

das

[dasNdanger]

I thought that too, about the layout on the inside. Then I thought, if I start with the assumption that Todd is a survivor and astutely observant then when he was caught he probably also noticed where the bunker was in relation to where he was caught. He was probably blind folded too, but because he has slit pupils this would indicate that his strongest sense is not his sense of sight. His strongest sense would probably be his sense of smell, since the wraith are predatory and they do have an extra pair of nostrils. The metal on the bunker doors would still be there (therefore the smell) and his crash site would have a distinct smell. So, all that this would involve is counting the number of steps.

There is something that does bother me: the Genii would not have had the technology 10,000 years ago to build such a bunker--the Genii may not even have existed. Perhaps, Todd was not originally a prisoner of the Genii; perhaps he was a serendipitous find. Perhaps he was originally a prisoner of the ancients. Ahhhh! now that WOULD make sense. Left there to rot, after they built a stargate to escape through.

Hate the Ancients.

WK

THAT is actually a great idea! Although...I don't think it possible, since the Ancients left 10k years ago...I surely do not think Todd was a prisoner that long. Nah, most likely he didn't know what Sheppard meant by 'stargate' - I wish I knew if the Wraith call it something different. I thought that I remembered John, or someone, addressing this with a Wraith - maybe...Michael? Maybe I'm wrong, I just thought I remembered something like that (I remember the 'dart' thing...I think that was in The Hive, when John called the ship a dart, but the queen just referred to it as a ship).

PS Oh Oh, last thing to say: There are little knots in Todd's hair. I know we've all said he probably twirls his hair around, but you can see that he twirls his hair around at the crown in little knots. He seems to have developed more of these little knots between the time he has last fed on Shepard and their plan to escape. He's been thinking a lot about what Shepard has said.

I also am thinking this new "what" situation also indicates that he's a rather "good" sort of person. He continues on with the rouse of looking for the Stargate though he knows he has no idea what a stargate is. I think it means he likes Shepard, and that he doesn't want to go through the feeling of hopelessness alone. Or perhaps he doesn't want to steal Shepard's hope.

Okay, I'm going to shut up now.

Of course Todd is good. It's the writers who make him bad.

As far as the knots - I am a compulsive hair-twirler, the more anxious I am, the more I twirl it. My mom said it was the first thing I did when they put me in her arms for the first time - I reached up and started rubbing my hair. I must have had issues even before birth! I often tie knots in my hair, just like Todd's, only in my hair the knots untie easily and don't stay in...probably because my hair is clean, and Todd's is...something else.

das

[Traveler64]

Hi, there, everyone! I've been kind of AWOL--broken water pipe in the wall, fans and dehumidifiers, plumbers, repairmen... You get the picture.

I've spent the last hour or so reading through the posts I missed--well I didn't go all the way back to page 600 or something . No way I can comment on all the stuff I would like to.

However... I didn't get the impression in CG or anywhere else that Todd would've been on that planet for 10,000 years. There could've been some kind of crash or accident during the time of the Genii. It would not have to be 10,000 years before. Although, I admit, having been first captured by the Ancients and left there to rot would make a good story. However, why would the ancients care about this particular Wraith and leave him there?

Do you recall (I am sure you do...) the fruit Shep tossed to Todd in THE QUEEN?
I saw it in the market the other day and bought it. It's called 'something melon'. Here's the photo (of course I bought it and tried it! I hope the farmer who grew it tasted a lot better than this fruit. )

[Todds worshipper]

Do you recall (I am sure you do...) the fruit Shep tossed to Todd in THE QUEEN?
I saw it in the market the other day and bought it. It's called 'something melon'. Here's the photo (of course I bought it and tried it! I hope the farmer who grew it tasted a lot better than this fruit. )

Wow, thanks for the pic. For some reason I had assumed it wasn't a real fruit and only a plastic prop.