Wraith Defenders Club

[ciannwn]

Even if only a small handful of people felt unable to express themselves, or suffered writer's block as a result of feeling they should be conforming to Legacy "canon" then it would be a very sad day indeed.

Have WDC members been criticising fanfic writers for not conforming to Legacy "canon"?

Yes, okay, you could argue why don't I just go and read the LJ blog and then I too would have the insider information... sorry, I'm not prepared to massage the authors' ego by doing so.
If they can't be bothered to put ALL their ideas and information into the books, then why should I be bothered reading their blog?

The blog entries are spoilers for future novels. If it's insider information, so were spoilers for upcoming seasons in Joe Mallozzi's blog along with pics of new Wraith etc. Rhys was named from a photo before Broken Ties was aired and some of us were discussing how Fred looked like Neo before Season 4 started. One past WDC member objected to us posting anything spoilery without spoiler tags so Legacy discussions are put in spoiler tags. (We get a lot of lurkers for this thread and maybe some of these people don't like spoilers.)

I still can't understand why people feel unwelcome here now. I've made it quite clear that, while I've enjoyed the first two Legacy books, I'd have used my own pet theory if I'd been writing SGA Season 6 in novel form - Wraith would be humanoid insects with a haplodiploid sex determination system and the Queens would lay eggs in pods. Nobody's torn me to shreds over it

[ciannwn]

A question in hope of sparking off a discussion.

If Joe Mallozzi and Brad Wright were writing Season 6 in novel form, would their books be considered canon by every SGA fan because they were members of TPTB? (Every SGA fan includes Wraith haters as well as Wraith lovers, of course). My guess is that there would be fan disagreement because some would insist that books can't be canon no matter who was writing them.

[Artie]

A question in hope of sparking off a discussion.

If Joe Mallozzi and Brad Wright were writing Season 6 in novel form, would their books be considered canon by every SGA fan because they were members of TPTB? (Every SGA fan includes Wraith haters as well as Wraith lovers, of course). My guess is that there would be fan disagreement because some would insist that books can't be canon no matter who was writing them.

I also wouldn't bet that a movie named "Extinction" would really be good for the Wraith. Somehow I don't think it's the humans who would wind up extinct. And genocide is really kind of a bottom line no-no for me.

[Leeta]

There are still contributions to WDC that have gone unposted, in the forms of new auctions, unseen Wraith video footage, new Wraith production pics, and new theories on everything from Queens to drones, all of these plural and of these gone unshared because more than one person has been made to feel unwelcome here, in spite of how tolerant people say this thread is. I really miss the contributions of the people who recently left this thread. I really, really do. And, I miss the all the fanfics that have been discontinued.

I'm going to put my neck on the line this time and maybe be speaking up for those who are not posting here for other reasons. (I am not mentioning names)

Spoiler:

Myself, and a few others are not active in the wraith threads any more for various reasons. Some of my reasons might differ a little bit with the others, but one reason why I'm not posting here as much as I use to is because it feels a little 'clicky' in here.

There have been times where some of the older members have made us newer members feel unwelcome. It has gotten to the point where we see some of the older members being hypocritical and also saying not so nice things behind our backs. Last year I would of agreed that this thread was very welcoming, but I'm not so sure now.

There's also been some really recent exciting finds in regards to the wraith. One member, who also isn't posting much here either any more, found something REALLY interesting in regards to wraith. It could have been shared, but there are those of you that have been very open about not liking this particular part of wraith culture.

There's also been some really good fan fic's written and fan art created lately, but it feels like only one, maybe two, people actually pay attention to other peoples work. Up until recently, I've always tried to read people's fan fics and commented on their art works. I personally began to feel fed up with certain members on this when they showed that they only cared about certain wraith artists on DA and made other wraith artists feel like their work wasn't good enough. Maybe this was unintentional, but this is the impression some of them have given. I am not the only one who feels this way.


As for the books: I personally enjoy the books alot and was excited to read the recent preview about the worshippers. But, I do feel like we can not discuss certain things at times because someone may point out that it might contradict with what the authors have said or wrote. I also find that some members seem to get really emotional over them and I would feel like a jerk if I were to post anything about the books. These are the two reasons why I stay mostly quiet on the books.

These books are filling the ending of Atlantis for me because the authors seem genuine that they love wraith, but I know from reading other Atlantis books that I won't always agree with what they write- such as wraith preferring low gravity ships in Halcyon. I don't even agree with how the show treated our special green friends.

I do not mean to offend anyone with my post. I also do not want to look one of those members that's only posting because there is a debate going on, there's at least one in here that does that. I also would of loved to have seen the auction listings, even though I am still depressed that I could not get Bob or Astor's costume earlier this year!

[Todd's Pet]

Any chance of posting this on FF.net with a link here so everyone not on LJ can enjoy it? It's feeling to me like WDC is a whole new subculture, only for people who have time to surf LJ.

Agreed. WDC has an air of exclusivity about it these days, which is not very nice if you are not part of the club - or worse, haven't even been invited.

Many months ago in here, people used to allow for many possibilities, for the facts that different hives on the show did things differently (compare Betty's vs Boris's) and there are different physical traits which could signify lineages and talents (like the different types of ears). This used to be reflected in the posts, with words like "my favorite theory on this is...," "I like the idea of....," or "The Commander in 'Broken Ties' solved this by..." It would be nice to get back to that in here, instead of posting with a tone of finality about pet theories and/or pointing to Legacy as the sole proof of a point.

Leeta, I;m so sorry to hear you feel that way, but I'm not surprised; it's the way the WDC has been heading for some time.
If people only post when a discussion/arguement is going, then I must be one of them. I think what happens, though, is some people feel excluded until someone has had enough and voices their frustrations, and then eventually others feel compelled to voice their opinions.

I personally have missed your contributions and hope you post your wonderful artwork again soon.

Perhaps we should be encouraging people to post links to their artwork and fics again?

I know sometimes I overlook some people's work, especially fics as I don;t frequent FF much - for the same reasons as you, Artie (post below) It would be nice to get a heads-up when someone has posted something new on other sites

[Artie]

Agreed. WDC has an air of exclusivity about it these days, which is not very nice if you are not part of the club - or worse, haven't even been invited.

I'm sorry. I don't post on ff.net because of too many trolls in the past. Not everyone has time to post on every forum, and that isn't one I choose to use.

[WraithTech]

Have WDC members been criticising fanfic writers for not conforming to Legacy "canon"?

I have seen fanfic writers doing this to themselves. To my knowledge, no book author has ever encouraged such restrictions because at least one said she enjoyed WDC member ideas. My posts were only meant to get people writing and sharing again, to show so such mind-forged manacles should not exist. I want to see these fanfics, or at least the ideas, if the fanfic authors truly don't want to spend time on them anymore.

One past WDC member objected to us posting anything spoilery without spoiler tags so Legacy discussions are put in spoiler tags. (We get a lot of lurkers for this thread and maybe some of these people don't like spoilers.)

With the lag between the electronic versions of the books and the month-long wait for print-on-demand novels, some people probably would appreciate the spoilers.

I still can't understand why people feel unwelcome here now.

The blame should not fall on what is or isn't canon. I won't speak for others, but Leeta's post offers some insights I have heard from others too.

If Joe Mallozzi and Brad Wright were writing Season 6 in novel form, would their books be considered canon by every SGA fan because they were members of TPTB? (Every SGA fan includes Wraith haters as well as Wraith lovers, of course). My guess is that there would be fan disagreement because some would insist that books can't be canon no matter who was writing them.

Even in the show, there were contradictions and we are left trying to come up with explanations for them. It's probably inherent in having different writers trying to remember what each wrote over the span of 5 years. That has to be challenging!

...made other wraith artists feel like their work wasn't good enough. Maybe this was unintentional, but this is the impression some of them have given. I am not the only one who feels this way.

I try very hard to scour dA on a daily basis for Wraith search words and include people's works in the Wraith art groups. I can't comment on all of them or know the right search tags to find every one of them, especially the time period I dealt with a few weeks ago, and wished so much for so many reasons I could have been around to help to celebrate them more. So, again, I want to encourage people to post their works!

[ciannwn]

I'm going to put my neck on the line this time and maybe be speaking up for those who are not posting here for other reasons. (I am not mentioning names)

Spoiler:

There's also been some really recent exciting finds in regards to the wraith. One member, who also isn't posting much here either any more, found something REALLY interesting in regards to wraith. It could have been shared, but there are those of you that have been very open about not liking this particular part of wraith culture.

Spoiler:

I'm confused here. Which aspect of Wraith culture is this? We never saw much of it on TV.

One suggested aspect of Wraith culture that some WDC members didn't like was Joe Mallozzi's idea that Wraith leather coats are made from human skin. One WDC member, however, pointed out that human skin isn't suitable for coats while others said "So what if they do? We use the skins of our own food animals."

Spoiler:

There's also been some really good fan fic's written and fan art created lately, but it feels like only one, maybe two, people actually pay attention to other peoples work. Up until recently, I've always tried to read people's fan fics and commented on their art works.

Spoiler:

I read very little fanfic for any TV show because I find looking at the computer screen for any length of time very uncomfortable. This makes it difficult to manage long fics because I keep losing track of where I am. (Writing long posts is also difficult for me - I shall be taking a number of rests while writing this one.) I try to comment on artwork/videos posted in this topic - if I've had to catch up on a lot of pages worth of posts, though, I might accidentally miss one.

Spoiler:

I also would of loved to have seen the auction listings, even though I am still depressed that I could not get Bob or Astor's costume earlier this year!

Spoiler:

I'm really confused now. Why have people been scared to post auction lots for SGA props and costumes because of the Legacy books?

I also wouldn't bet that a movie named "Extinction" would really be good for the Wraith. Somehow I don't think it's the humans who would wind up extinct. And genocide is really kind of a bottom line no-no for me.

I can't see many Wraith fans liking what Joe Mallozzi would do to the Wraith if he was writing Season 6 in novel form. As for the Legacy books, I don't know if I'll like what the authors do to the Wraith by the end of the series - it's impossible to say until I've read them all.

[Shaded Mazoku]

I don't use FF.net or dA any more, for various personal reasons, so I always post on LJ. Not because want to exclude someone, but because I will not use those sites.

At this rate, I'm beginning to feel I shouldn't be here because I'm sometimes part of discussions on LJ, so the feeling of being excluded definitely goes both ways.

[Todd's Pet]

I don't use FF.net or dA any more, for various personal reasons, so I always post on LJ. Not because want to exclude someone, but because I will not use those sites.

At this rate, I'm beginning to feel I shouldn't be here because I'm sometimes part of discussions on LJ, so the feeling of being excluded definitely goes both ways.

That's a fair point, actually.

Can anyone think of a way around this?

[Artie]

I don't use FF.net or dA any more, for various personal reasons, so I always post on LJ. Not because want to exclude someone, but because I will not use those sites.

At this rate, I'm beginning to feel I shouldn't be here because I'm sometimes part of discussions on LJ, so the feeling of being excluded definitely goes both ways.

I don't use ff.net either and prefer LJ. But both are free services and anyone can use them. I comment in both places on fic I see linked. There are a lot of different sites and nobody uses them all -- it would take forever! To each their own.

[WraithTech]

Spoiler:

One suggested aspect of Wraith culture that some WDC members didn't like was Joe Mallozzi's idea that Wraith leather coats are made from human skin. One WDC member, however, pointed out that human skin isn't suitable for coats while others said "So what if they do? We use the skins of our own food animals."

That blog entry was only a joke to get a rise out of people in this thread.

[Shaded Mazoku]

I've used LJ since 2003, and it happens to be the one I prefer. FF.net has a little too many rude people telling me I should die horribly because I happen to write something they didn't agree with and too little moderation for my tastes. I don't mind a polite review saying they disagree, but an all out flame insulting me? Not so much. And the FF.net mods won't do anything about it, either.

It's not a good feeling when I feel like I should be punished for avoiding a site like that.

[Isolde]

The knitting is just a joke, the same as any other sort of joke that we have indulged in from time to time. There was no intension to exclude, and it was just as Artie, and SM explained. I had hoped, naively it would seem, that other people would run with it too, as it was an attempt to engage people in some fun.

As for all the other art work, I do miss it sometimes, but I always green people if I can.

And if I haven't written, the fault lies with me, rather than any pro book, because I am starting to move past the Wraith. I have to if I want to develop as an author. Yes, in the beginning, it hit me hard, but I'm so over that. I can still write whatever the hell I please, and I intend to.

Of course, I can only speak from my own perspective. I do, however, want to see open discussion, and more fic, with artwork, and any number of nonsenses.

So please, can we get past this, and back to what we do best?

I also use LJ, and have since I started writing again. Should I cease to post there? Like SM and Artie, I like the format, plus there are fewer idiots there.

[ciannwn]

Agreed. WDC has an air of exclusivity about it these days, which is not very nice if you are not part of the club - or worse, haven't even been invited.

If you're referring to the Legacy novels here, nobody sent me an invite to any club. I've read the first two books and I go to the authors' blogs when links are posted to read spoilers.

I'm really baffled about all this talk of clubs and exclusiveness. When SGA was on TV, Das used to post links to Joe Mallozzie's blog and quote Wraith related extracts from it. She also posted questions and comments on his blog and he usually replied to her. WDC members who didn't want spoilers never regarded the WDC as being divided into 'us' and 'members of the JM Insider Information Club'.