STAKS: The Anti-Kirking Discussion Thread

[Alipeeps]

I'm happy to discuss it with anyone who has reasonable arguments. I'm always up for debate.

But it's been decided that discussion of the issue is not permitted in this thread - this is apparently a strictly anti-kirking opinion thread and other points of view are not appropriate. That's the decision that has been taken.

[ladysarah]

But it's been decided that discussion of the issue is not permitted in this thread - this is apparently a strictly anti-kirking opinion thread and other points of view are not appropriate. That's the decision that has been taken.

OK, sure I can go with that too. Whatever works.

[Willow'sCat]

Actually, it's a DISCUSSION thread. But not anymore. Doesn't matter what the original purpose was, it seems.

Well it was always my thought that if you put Anti in the title it means just that only anti posts (that is posts that agree with the topic) now you could always ask for the Anti to be removed or replaced with general discussion, although really don't see the point of that as most people who use the term Kirking are against it, so even the use of Kirking in the title could be troublesome for some posters.

[FoolishPleasure]

When has he ever displayed this trait on duty. Oh maybe with Elizabeth but of course that is fine - Sheppard is not on duty 24/7 and it was only while off duty that any of these instances occurred.

But he does - Sanctuary, Aurora, Inferno, The Tower (where he sleeps with a teenage girl on duty. That's class for ya.). The commanding officer needs to be a "bit" more together as he expects his men to look up to him and follow his lead. Is every man on Atlantis supposed to follow Shep's example?

I'm also confused about all the people who say Shep is hot, single and a MAN. Like men are some sort of inferior creature who can't go more than a certain amount of time without sex. WTH? What about all those hot, single women, like Weir, Teyla, Carter? Or is that different? Single women don't want or need sex?

As for the flirty instance in NML, I agree it wasn't much, but it was the "teeny" straw that broke the camel's back. It told me the writers aren't going to stop, and its not what I want to see in my lead, heroic character (who I loved so much in season 1).

As a Shep/Weir shipper, I'm even having trouble with that pairing. Does Lizzie, or Teyla for that matter, deserve a guy who is going to check out every other gal when they aren't around? Or is Shep going to suddenly fall for one of our girls and never flirt again? Can anyone really see that happening? I'm beginning to think both our girls deserve someone better.

[ladysarah]

It told me the writers aren't going to stop

,

It was a bit of a slap in the face wasn't it. A bit like 'We know some of you guys can't stand that behaviour, here you go, we're the writers, DEAL'.

Or is Shep going to suddenly fall for one of our girls and never flirt again? Can anyone really see that happening? I'm beginning to think both our girls deserve someone better.

I reckon he's got some deep seated commitment issues. Like, he'll flirt, he'll sleep with a girl, but he's too afraid to get close and form a proper relationship. I think I'd find the flirting OK with that hook, but the writers haven't seen fit to elaborate more, so we're left with just that, speculation.

Maybe if they have an episode where the team is run out of an offworld village at the point of spears because Sheppard flirted with the head man's daughter and then Rodney spends a good amount of time ripping him apart with his snark because he almost DIED OMG, and then Elizabeth lectures him on professionalism inter-cut with some type of trauma he had with an ex-girlfriend (cue violins, she died of cancer, or something, or maybe his mother died when he was young), and we GET SOME type of insight and he grows as a character.

I could deal. But, the writers think the flirting is funny and humourous plot device. Which does not make me happy.

[FoolishPleasure]

I reckon he's got some deep seated commitment issues. Like, he'll flirt, he'll sleep with a girl, but he's too afraid to get close and form a proper relationship. I think I'd find the flirting OK with that hook, but the writers haven't seen fit to elaborate more, so we're left with just that, speculation.

If the writers would give us something about his past that contributed to his "issues" then it might work.

In BSG, Starbuck sleeps around, but we have seen she was horribly abused as a child, plus we also discovered she was responsible for

Spoiler:

the death of her BF (Lee's brother) in the past.

She really needs good counselling, but there is never time for it. But at least we know WHY she behaves the way she does, which makes me like the character despite her dysfunctional behaviors.

[ladysarah]

If the writers would give us something about his past that contributed to his "issues" then it might work..

Exactly. And I liked your example with BSG.

But the way the writers set up Shep's behaviour, it's like, they are saying it's cute, and it's a quirk of his personality which makes him endearing.

They are endorsing his behaviour. And it's not all flirting, just particular aspects, like when he put his foot in it with Sora's father in 'Underground' the security disaster of Chaya or flirting with Norena because he's jealous Rodney is getting all the attention (how petty is that? hitting on the girl that his friend likes, and a friend who doesn't have many girls who are into him because Sheppard needs an ego rush, with total disregard for not only professionalism, but his friend's feelings).

I'm not a prude, I don't have a problem with flirting. But Sheppard is almost 40 years old. To the writers it's a funny gag, but for me, it just makes it look like Shep has unresolved issues that make him act like a pig.

[anaM]

As a Shep/Weir shipper, I'm even having trouble with that pairing. Does Lizzie, or Teyla for that matter, deserve a guy who is going to check out every other gal when they aren't around? Or is Shep going to suddenly fall for one of our girls and never flirt again? Can anyone really see that happening? I'm beginning to think both our girls deserve someone better.

I guess you are right. Our girls don't need a man who is loyal to his friends and stands up for them, who would give his life to save others without blinking an eye, who has enough brain to save the situation sometimes even though not a scientist, who cares about people and tries to help...they just don't need a man like that.

[Trialia]

I guess you are right. Our girls don't need a man who is loyal to his friends and stands up for them, who would give his life to save others without blinking an eye, who has enough brain to save the situation sometimes even though not a scientist, who cares about people and tries to help...they just don't need a man like that.

No need for sarcasm, thank you...

Sarah... you have a good point. I don't think the writers are taking into account that Sheppard is not 25. At times they seem to be living vicariously through him, and I really don't like that. Why can't we get back the original John Sheppard from the first half of season 2, the one I loved as my second favourite character? With the exception of Sanctuary, he was wonderful throughout season 1. It's only the last few episodes of season 2 that the writers have decided to have him make several bad decisions (TLG anyone?), a few of which have involved "Kirking", that have reflected badly on his character. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Sheppard fan. I also think Joe's quite cute. I'm not a Shep thunker because I'm a lesbian, not because I don't like him. I just wish the writers would get him back on track and give us more character development.

At least with Allina, she was three-dimensional enough to betray the team to the Genii, and Sora, well, I love Sora. Great character. I wish TPTB would tell us what happened to her. If she were betrothed, I'd have thought her fiance (can't use the accent because of browser issues) would have wanted to get her back, no? Anyway, my problems with Kirking from any characters are mostly that they involve such 2D characters. It's silly.

[ladysarah]

Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Sheppard fan. I also think Joe's quite cute. I'm not a Shep thunker because I'm a lesbian, not because I don't like him.

Ha, one of my closest friend is a huge Sheppard fangirl and she's in a long term relationship with another woman, lesbians like Sheppard too!

I also like Sheppard, I just WISH they would drop the kirking already. And a good friend doesn't hit on the girl his mate (perhaps his best friend) likes. That's low, and that's not what I like to see Sheppard do.

[Trialia]

Ha, one of my closest friend is a huge Sheppard fangirl and she's in a long term relationship with another woman, lesbians like Sheppard too!

I also like Sheppard, I just WISH they would drop the kirking already. And a good friend doesn't hit on the girl his mate (perhaps his best friend) likes. That's low, and that's not what I like to see Sheppard do.

Exactly! It's not what I'd have previously thought of as "in character" for him. He's not that mean.

Haha. Yes, as I said, I think he is quite cute, for a guy.

[anaM]

I was not being sarcastic and I am sorry if it looked like that. I just think you see the tree and lose the forest.

[ladysarah]

I was not being sarcastic and I am sorry if it looked like that. I just think you see the tree and lose the forest.

Well, that's your opinion. We all have them.

[Trialia]

I was not being sarcastic and I am sorry if it looked like that. I just think you see the tree and lose the forest.

It certainly read sarcastic to me, and it still does when I look back at it. I understand what you're saying, but I still maintain that the writers doing Sheppard's part in all the Kirking is detrimental to a wonderful character and comes at the expense of our actually getting to see some proper backstory.

[gooner_diva]

I was not being sarcastic and I am sorry if it looked like that. I just think you see the tree and lose the forest.

I'd sure like this particular tree cut down.