STAKS: The Anti-Kirking Discussion Thread

[Trek_Girl42]

I don't think it's just STAKS, although similar "staks" threads now exist on other forums. I believe the Sci Fi boards do have a version. Rather, I would say, that the audience in general is pretty turned off by it all. I watched BSG for the first time the other day, and it occurred to me that TPTB might be aiming for a similar feel with Atlantis. And they've suddenly discovered that on a very family orientated show like Atlantis, the sex doesn't work. That grittiness doesn't really work.

Just rambling now.

And in BSG the sex almost always has consequnces (good, bad, you decide).....In Atlantis it sounds like it just gets discarded by the next episode.

[Trialia]

Is it just me who wants the writers to realise that sex isn't everything?

I have an asexual friend who watches this show, and she 'ships Sheppard/Weir, but the Kirking drives her insane.

[rhead]

I like Kirk syndrome - allows a steady stream of hot Ancient women

Hot ancient women are good. But some spouses may only want us to look and not touch. Unless I am blind to others actions.

[rhead]

You know my Special Ops Team? Sam and Shep? Maybe it's time for a new member?

I'd join up with some reservations. We could discuss character and screen names in a personal format.

[lissa1000]

And in BSG the sex almost always has consequnces (good, bad, you decide).....In Atlantis it sounds like it just gets discarded by the next episode.

That is what made the kirking so boring. You knew nothing would come of it. The reset button would be hit and Sheppard would be on to the next woman. There was no pining or angst. The women were either too stupid or too bland for me to care about.

I think some people like the idea of the lovable womanizer, I just don't think it fit Sheppard. How can you have a snarky bada$$ military leader that is also incredibly immature with women? It didn't work for me.

[eyecandylovr]

I think some people like the idea of the lovable womanizer, I just don't think it fit Sheppard. How can you have a snarky bada$$ military leader that is also incredibly immature with women? It didn't work for me.

I agree. I mean, he's the CO of women too. How could anyone respect a CO who's busy finding his next lay? And how comfortable could the women ever be under his command?
In fact, I hate being around males who are always scoping out women based on their attractiveness or lack thereof. I like a man who interacts with everyone as people, not as prospects for sexual conquest.
Not that I think Shep went that far before the season was over, but he sure seemed headed in that direction......

[atlantisrocks]

I could have sworn I saw a ship thread somewhere.

*shudder*

For your enjoyment, the Shep/Vala thread!

What does everyone think of the "Irrestible" spoilers? Do you think there will be kirking?

I'm just really curious to see how the characters will react to the situation, but I'm not too apprehensive about this episode yet.

[Erised]

Irresistable -

Spoiler:

innocent (under influence)Girls kirking and jealous boys!!!!! Hehehe might make Sheppard think twice before kirking next time

[Easter Lily]

I think some people like the idea of the lovable womanizer, I just don't think it fit Sheppard. How can you have a snarky bada$$ military leader that is also incredibly immature with women? It didn't work for me.

It didn't work for me either.
Not because he is a snarky badass military leader but because he wasn't set up to be a lovable womanizer from the beginning a la Denozzo from NCIS. Perhaps he was... but somehow I missed it...
Frankly speaking, I really don't know where they're going with the character (with all this inconsistent characterization) and I wonder if TPTB know either.

[Chrysalis]

It didn't work for me either.
Not because he is a snarky badass military leader but because he wasn't set up to be a lovable womanizer from the beginning a la Denozzo from NCIS. Perhaps he was... but somehow I missed it...
Frankly speaking, I really don't know where they're going with the character (with all this inconsistent characterization) and I wonder if TPTB know either.

Interesting comparison with Dinozzo. You're right. We don't mind him being a womaniser so much because that's the way he was from day one.

Shep seems to have changed a fair bit from the way he was in the beginning, while Tony's been consistent on NCIS.

[lissa1000]

I think they had intended for Sheppard to be the lovable womanizer. He has always been a little flirty. A pro-kirker mentioned political correctness and at the time I didn't understand the point that person was trying to make, but now I think I do. In the 60's and 70's it was common for the lead male to have a fling with a dumb and/or horny woman with no negative consequences. The women always smiled and waved as he left and the female regulars on the show always thought it was cute. I bet that's what tptb are going for.

"Lovable Womanizer" can be done right without resorting to negative female stereotypes. Tony from NCIS is a good example and so is Londo from Babylon 5. Another difference between these guys and Sheppard is that they aren't in charge. A leader needs to be more mature.

I think Sheppard's behavior with women is less like Captain Kirk and more like Starbuck from the original Battlestar Galactica. As eye rolling as some of the situations Kirk got in to were, he never let it get in the way of the mission. I can't even think about the original Starbuck without rolling my eyes. Oh God, tptb please don't turn him into Starbuck!

I know it sounds like I hate Sheppard, but I really don't. I just don't like what they have done with him lately. I want to love Shep again.

[atlantisrocks]

It didn't work for me either.
Not because he is a snarky badass military leader but because he wasn't set up to be a lovable womanizer from the beginning a la Denozzo from NCIS. Perhaps he was... but somehow I missed it...
Frankly speaking, I really don't know where they're going with the character (with all this inconsistent characterization) and I wonder if TPTB know either.

Another good example of a lovable womanizer is Dan Fielding from "Night Court." I think it worked in that case because he wasn't the main character, and he was supposed to be kinda the joke character.

I'd much rather see Sheppard as the honorable hero.

[Easter Lily]

I think they had intended for Sheppard to be the lovable womanizer. He has always been a little flirty. A pro-kirker mentioned political correctness and at the time I didn't understand the point that person was trying to make, but now I think I do. In the 60's and 70's it was common for the lead male to have a fling with a dumb and/or horny woman with no negative consequences. The women always smiled and waved as he left and the female regulars on the show always thought it was cute. I bet that's what tptb are going for.

I don't care for political correctness personally because it assumes that the great majority (whoever that is) all share a common political viewpoint when in reality, it's not that simple. Personally, I'm not entirely against the idea of the lovable womanizer... a man who thinks he's God's gift to women and plays it up. I liked the original Starbuck... he was supposed to be a player and he acted consistently with that persona. That was his flaw... He was a brilliant pilot but had a thing for women and cigars.

With Sheppard, I'm confused... In S1, he seemed to be a man of substance and a little dark at the edges. But in S2, he's lost some of that edge and stands around for comic relief. The lovable womanizer doesn't work for his character in my opinion because a) it seems to me to be an afterthought b) he is a much more complex and sensitive character.
I didn't feel that Joe Flanigan played Sheppard as a lovable womanizer in S1 at all. To me his Sheppard was a charming, flirtatious man who was intensely concerned about those around him. I felt that he was a one woman man but he wasn't very good at maintaining relationships for one reason or another.

"Lovable Womanizer" can be done right without resorting to negative female stereotypes. Tony from NCIS is a good example and so is Londo from Babylon 5. Another difference between these guys and Sheppard is that they aren't in charge. A leader needs to be more mature.

I feel that Michael Weatherly plays up Denozzo's womanizing qualities to the full. He is convinced by it... and the writing is very deliberate in that regard.
In contrast to that is his performance of Logan in Dark Angel where he's a much more serious, vulnerable character. It took me a couple of episodes to realise who he was in NCIS.

Also with Denozzo he gets knocked over the head with his womanizing either by his colleagues or the women that he's romancing. So the consequences are well-played out.

[lissa1000]

I didn't feel that Joe Flanigan played Sheppard as a lovable womanizer in S1 at all. To me his Sheppard was a charming, flirtatious man who was intensely concerned about those around him. I felt that he was a one woman man but he wasn't very good at maintaining relationships for one reason or another.

I perceived S1 Sheppard the same way you did, but I think that was tptb's botched attempt to make him the lovable womanizer. I could be wrong, though.

[Easter Lily]

I perceived S1 Sheppard the same way you did, but I think that was tptb's botched attempt to make him the lovable womanizer. I could be wrong, though.

I don't think it's about right or wrong... but about perception. We are of course a mere segment of Stargate fandom and a very vocal one because we choose to make ourselves heard. Many of us in this segment of fandom are perceiving certain things and we don't particularly like what we're seeing. I don't think I'm more correct in what I'm saying but I am disturbed at what I perceive to be the lack of direction given to my beloved character. "Kirking" is symptomatic of a larger problem with characterization in Atlantis.
There's a whole spectrum of Sheppard fans... and I am very aware that we like the character for different reasons. I like this thread because we expressing different degrees of love about what happens to Sheppard but we don't necessarily like we've been seeing.