STAKS: The Anti-Kirking Discussion Thread

[PartyLikeIts1984]

I'm a dedicated shipper, but with this kirking...I'd rather have no ship than kirking.

I'm really not much of a shipper, honestly. I mean, it's so hard to do with the Stargate characters. There all working for each other and with each other in such close quarters that most relationships would be kinda problematic. I mean, I trust most of them not to let relationships get too much in the way of their jobs, but it would leave them open for attack by so many people with goals less lofty than intergalactic peace and love. People who may be good guys, but aren't very nice guys, and who don't know the characters like we do.

That having been said, I have no problem with hints at deeper feelings between, say, Shep and Weir, as long as they keep it to just feelings, and don't act on them, at least not while they still have to work with each other. Continuing on that train of thought, if a relationship is never going to be realized, then teasing and dangling it in front of fans, while constantly coming up with new ways to keep them apart gets tiring. A la Sam and Jack.

[FireCat]

While I'm not against "ship", if the writers use it sparingly, but Sheppard's "young thing of the week" has got to GO! He may not be kissing every week, but he seems to give the eagle eye to some babe on a regular basis.

Yecch.

[Vee]

I'm not really a fan of romance in general, so I'm not interested in shipping. I've nothing against it provided it isn't shoved down my throat. I'll freely admit I'd rather not see much in the way of romance at all on the shows. Having said that, I find that feelings between main characters doesn't bother me provided that it is well written. I don't want to see two main characters shoving their tongues in each others mouths after ten episodes. As Party pointed out, romance among co-workers is complicated and problematic. So realistically any such romance should be portrayed in a somewhat serious and well-developed manner. Thus one of my issues with Kirking.

It isn't usually well written and most of the time it comes across as cheap and meaningless as a poor brand of scotch.

[Jeyla4ever]

I never meant for anyone to go and spam J.Mallozzi's blog or thread...heck, I don't think I even know what spamming means...yeah, well moving on....

J. Mallozzi does listen...Please, why bother to spend so much time in this or any other website...they do....they are just not going to say it...

"Oh, yeah we did it because many of the fans told us too"...Um, yeah, give me the credit then, will ya? sorry guys, it's kind of late for me..so I am kind of in one of those moods....

but, seriously, I think there are enough comments out there for him to get the message...and yes, it is too late for Season 2...but season 3 is just in the making....so it's not too late.....

So, Mr. Mallozzi..regardless of my ship preference, I'd like to see Atlantis stick with the story of Atlantis...which is why we love this show so much...
Let's focus on the Wraith a little more, and let's focus on developing Ronon's character, Beckett's character more and give them some quality plot stories and spend less time on Sheppard's weekly squeeze....he is such a great actor and portrays such a great character that there is no need to sell him to the viewer as the sexiest man alive..he already has the title in my view...but so do all the others..so if you really want to do the kirk thing, give the other hotties a turn, and the girls too.. thanks...
And yes, keep doing what you guys love to do...write Scifi stories...

Camy

[knocknashee]

While I'm not against "ship", if the writers use it sparingly, but Sheppard's "young thing of the week" has got to GO! He may not be kissing every week, but he seems to give the eagle eye to some babe on a regular basis.

Yecch.

It's revolting, isn't it? To be quite honest, my love of Joe Flanigan as an actor aside, if they keep it up in S3, I'll be seriously rethinking whether I'm going to continue watching, it pisses me off that much.

There is so much to be had in the way of stories for SGA, it's a shame they keep playing this card for his character. How about seeing more of him and his relationship with the city they inhabit, for one. He's supposed to have the 'strongest' (for lack of a better word) version of the ancient gene. I'd like to see him put it to good use. And damn it, now they have a ZPM, I'd like to see some of the city...

[Tracy Jane]

It's definitely not worth flooding Joe with comments about Kirking. I think the occasional comment here and there, maybe mixed in with a positive one. I think I mised mine in with something about Asterix.

It doesn't need to be kissing, but the whole flirting thing. In a way, much as I hated it with Sam, there was only Sam, really, but on Atlantis, there are plenty of men.

But besides that, can't they develop friendship or diplomatic relations? Kirk Diplomacy isn't always the best. Bedroom politics are messy.

BTW: anyone notice the related links at the top? All about Kirk! Hehe!

[Tracy Jane]

Just a quick bump up to page 1!

[FoolishPleasure]

I never meant for anyone to go and spam J.Mallozzi's blog or thread...heck, I don't think I even know what spamming means...yeah, well moving on....

J. Mallozzi does listen...Please, why bother to spend so much time in this or any other website...they do....they are just not going to say it...

"Oh, yeah we did it because many of the fans told us too"...Um, yeah, give me the credit then, will ya? sorry guys, it's kind of late for me..so I am kind of in one of those moods....

but, seriously, I think there are enough comments out there for him to get the message...and yes, it is too late for Season 2...but season 3 is just in the making....so it's not too late.....

So, Mr. Mallozzi..regardless of my ship preference, I'd like to see Atlantis stick with the story of Atlantis...which is why we love this show so much...
Let's focus on the Wraith a little more, and let's focus on developing Ronon's character, Beckett's character more and give them some quality plot stories and spend less time on Sheppard's weekly squeeze....he is such a great actor and portrays such a great character that there is no need to sell him to the viewer as the sexiest man alive..he already has the title in my view...but so do all the others..so if you really want to do the kirk thing, give the other hotties a turn, and the girls too.. thanks...
And yes, keep doing what you guys love to do...write Scifi stories...

Camy

Everyone here agrees that the LAST thing they want is to have something ("ship", "kirking", etc.) mashed in their face week after week. Well, the same goes for TPTB. The LAST thing they want are direct, confrontive posts directed to them day after day - "Mr. Mallozzi. . please, oh, please. . I want "Mary Sue" to fall in love with John Doe!", or "Mr. Gero, I'm sick and tired of Shep kissing everything with boobs!"

We don't want baloney tossed in our faces. . well, neither do they. A scene that is hideously thrown at us is a scene (or a writer) that fans dislike forever, and a complaint or personal "wish list" shoved in their faces time after time is going to be met with the same scorn.

TPTB are PROFESSIONAL LURKERS around here and they DO see and hear all the complaints and praises. The best way to get their attention is not to directly post to them, but to have calm, intelligent conversations amongst ourselves about what we like and dislike.

THAT is what will get their attention.

[Tracy Jane]

And, for the mostpart, that's what we're already doing.

Well, apart from Lexa Jayde and I, who are everything BUT calm and intelligent.

[FoolishPleasure]

And, for the mostpart, that's what we're already doing.

Well, apart from Lexa Jayde and I, who are everything BUT calm and intelligent.

I think this has been an excellent thread to discuss this issue. I've seen complaints about "kirking" in other threads, but I'm glad someone actually created a thread so we can intelligently grumble together.

[Tracy Jane]

Well, this is the thing. You have Shweir shippers grumbling about Kirking, Sheyla Shippers grumbling about Kirking and McWeir Shippers all complaining that kirking detracts from proper and relevant character development. It's a cheap and naff plotline when all else fails.

The problem is, that up until recently, the different Ship contigents have been so busy bickering, that they've never stopped to consider that they might actually be upset about the same things.

The problem is that we've become so divided, that we've forgotten how to work together, how to fight for what we want and create a strong, intelligent and united front.

[prion]

Well, this is the thing. You have Shweir shippers grumbling about Kirking, Sheyla Shippers grumbling about Kirking and McWeir Shippers all complaining that kirking detracts from proper and relevant character development. It's a cheap and naff plotline when all else fails.

The problem is, that up until recently, the different Ship contigents have been so busy bickering, that they've never stopped to consider that they might actually be upset about the same things.

The problem is that we've become so divided, that we've forgotten how to work together, how to fight for what we want and create a strong, intelligent and united front.

Uh, um, let me see.... in "Sanctuary," Chaya hits on Sheppard because she's lonely, and that's it. In "Epiphahy", darn, spoilers.

Anyway, I'm not sure where all the Kirk stuff is coming from. Sure, Shep may look at a pretty woman. Hey, he's not dead, you know! Heck, who's getting the dates on SGA? McKay with Katie; Beckett with Cadman. No one is squawking about them being Kirk.

Besides, to be Kirk, a guy's got to have his shirt ripped off several times. It only happened to Shep on "38 Minutes' for valid medical reasons (you can't zap someone with a defibrilator through a shirt).

Actually, the kevetching between 'ship contingents', etc. seems to be just part of the fandom. SG1 fandom has the same thing; shippers squawk about the slashers, slashers squawk about the shippers. Never-ending.

The biggest problem with 'ship' (or romance, for normal folk) is that one you get it started, you have to do something with it. Leaving it just simmer, even if for seasons, is far more beneficial to drawing viewers back. Once you get a couple together, you can't have htem happy-happy, not on an action/adventure drama. Bogs down the show. It works on sitcoms. Plus for many viewers it's more the thrill of the hunt (pursuing the other person) rather than snaring 'em

Now, i recall the writers, etc. saying that they weren't going to actively pursue any romances on the show, keeping more to action-adventure, which is fine by me. 'Ship' itself is a fan term for fan fiction, and if some fans must have the romance/sex, just write the fan fiction. Don't turn the actual series into a soap. Ditto with slash.

So, occasionally the SGA characters may date/have an abortive romance with guest alien of the week. TV drama has been like that for years. And if they marry, well, shudder, let's not forget what happened to the new wife in Bonanza, Knight Rider, Starsky & Hutch, over the years. Wifey dies in fire/ hail of fire, or in a scenario popular at one point, the ever common brain tumor (which might work better nowadays with all the cellphone usage) <G>

They don't kill 'em in SGA; they just ascend now, or go "eeeuuu, the guy isn't a real person from Atlantis" and lose interest fast ("The Brotherhood").

[Syera]

Sign me up, Tracy m'dear!

I've always been put off by "romances" that are one episode long, make no sense, and have no closure.

Teal'c's relationship with Shau'nac, in my opinion, was completely disgusting. Old flame or not, he was still married to Drey'auc at that point! To me, it felt like he was cheating on his wife, plain and simple. Yuck!

I didn't mind Daniel and Kira - however, it would have been better if this episode was placed later on. Having it the next episode after Sha're's death was rather tasteless.

But anyway, 'nuff with the girl on every planet! A little light flirtation is only natural and thus in order, but taking it to the realm of Captain Kirking is, in a word, DISGUSTING!

[Seshat]

LOL
first of all, t-man really needs to get more action, and second of all, why does it always have to be RELATIONSHIP?

If it's more action for lonely Teal'c, then I vote yes!
Otherwise, let 'em all go to Match.com. They don't have time to start real relationships, anyway.

Are TPTB trying to live vicariously through Shep or something?

Undeniably. Let me repeat that: YES.

[Melyanna]

I actually don't mind Shep flirting with women. It seems to be part of his MO, which is to charm people to get them to trust him. The charm just works a lot better on women than it does on men. Actually, I thought one of the funniest moments of Season 1 was when he started to flirt a bit with Sora in Underground, and Sora's dad pointed out very quickly that she was engaged.

The problem with episodes like Sanctuary or Epiphany is that the characters are brought in primarily to be romantic interests, and that's just not enough for me. TPTB have shown that they can introduce female characters who aren't just there to flirt with the boys. Sora, for example, wasn't just a pretty face – she was a great little view into the Genii culture. Wish we could have seen more of her. And in The Brotherhood, Alina wasn't just there to fawn over Rodney. She did actual stuff besides stand around and look pretty. She was important to the plot, and the romantic aspect was only a grace note of that plot. I also enjoyed Perna in Poisoning the Well, and Laura Cadman in both Duet and Critical Mass. The hints at romantic subplots for both those women didn't interfere with the fact that they did their jobs and did them well.

Chaya, on the other hand, didn't tell us anything we didn't already know in the franchise. She was there for Sheppard's fling, and that was it. As Rodney said in the next episode, I believe, there's really nothing more exciting for the expedition than the possibility of meeting a real, living Ancient, and when we did, she came off as a lovesick teenager.

Teer didn't bother me as much, but she still had the problem of being a one-hit wonder. It doesn't matter so much that Sheppard had time to get to know her before doing anything – the audience didn't. We didn't have the time to connect with her. How many scenes was she in before the smooching commenced? Four? I didn't feel like I wanted to gag, but I certainly didn't care about the character at all.

I had the same problem with Pete on SG-1. The other men who were romantically liaised with Carter weren't so bad, because for the most part, they had some connection with the universe for some other reason. Narim introduced the Tollan, the first race of humans they'd come across who were more advanced than Earth, and Martouf was an important part of the Tok'ra arc. I admit, I've always had a soft spot for Carter/Barrett, but Barrett also had his own connections to the 'verse. Pete, on the other hand, had none. He was there specifically to be a romantic interest, and that I object to.

So I guess it's not really flings-of-the-week I have a problem with. It's episodes that are dominated by the fling of the week. And I do think that the original concept of Epiphany had a lot of good ideas that would have added to the texture of the Atlantis 'verse, but most of them got jettisoned in favor of a pretty girl who will probably never be heard from again. ...Yeah, we've seen that plot already, thanks. Can we get a new one?