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    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
    Example on how to write romance properly - DS9 and Odo/Kira.
    I only ever saw an episode of DS9 maybe once or twice - didn't like it all that much, so I don't know about that pairing.

    I can't actually think of a good example - probably because I'm not too interested in the romantic relationship parts of a show. I'm really wrecking my brain here for a good example, and I come up short.
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      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
      I only ever saw an episode of DS9 maybe once or twice - didn't like it all that much, so I don't know about that pairing.

      I can't actually think of a good example - probably because I'm not too interested in the romantic relationship parts of a show. I'm really wrecking my brain here for a good example, and I come up short.
      Well let's put it this way....Even Jelgate liked it That should tell you all you need to know
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        Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
        Thanks. And, you're right. They knew that if they only had 2 main characters, that it would be a boring show. So, if you have 5-6 main characters, why not write for them. It makes sense. It also gives a writer with imagination a lot to work with.
        Exactly, when SGA was created they knew they needed to have more than 2 main characters to keep the show interesting. Unfortunately, after Season 1 they lost sight of this because in Seasons 2-5, they seemed to believe that they only needed to focus on 1 or 2 main characters and had no problem wall-papering the rest. Sad.

        Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
        You've just hit the nail on the head! That's what bothered me so much about him never coming back! It was the writers/producers (although they are the same people mostly) conceding that they, in a way, created these wonderful characters that they couldn't write for. They did such a good job creating these characters. Teyla was supposed to be wise, strong, compassionate, a leader, skillful, and beautiful. However, they didn't seem to write all of this into the scripts very much, except for scenes that hinted at this being the case - or someone outright saying it. But, I would've liked to have seen that more, and known more about her people. What exactly were her duties in being a leader to her people if she was away with the SGA team most of the time? Was Halling her second in command? They never really addressed these things. Oh well.
        Yep, getting rid of Ford because they didn't/couldn't write for him set the stage for what happened later in the series - a decline in fresh storylines. As much as I love McKay, it became very tiresome to see storyline after storyline focus on the character.

        Like you, I would love to have known more about Teyla. In addition to your questions, I would also like to know what happened to her mother. Although her father was mentioned a couple of times, her mother was never mentioned. Did she have any brothers and sisters? Cousins? Aunts? Uncles? How did she get so close to Charin? When did she become the leader of her people? So many questions and yet so few answers!

        Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
        There is! There are so many possibilities with SGA. I don't know where to start. There is soooooo much life in SGA, it could have easily gone on for 10 season and been amazing and never gotten tired or stale. They had so much to work with. I really want a great movie. Really.
        I agree that in the hands of writers willing to write for *all* the main characters SGA could have easily gone on for many more years.

        Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
        SGA was dying a slow and painful death thanks to certain people If it did go on for more seasons I don't think I would have continued watching, not after what happened with S5. I ain't even planning on watching the movie, if it ever gets made and that is debatable. Well I ain't interested in watching Stargate McKay so....ya know *shrugs*
        Sadly, I agree that under SGA's complacent writers the show was dying a slow death because as sorry as I was to see the show cancelled, Season 5 was so bad that it eased the sting of the cancellation for me. If SGA had gotten a Season 6, I probably would have watched those episodes the way I watched the later part of Season 5 - by reading the transcripts first.

        SGA's cast deserved so much more than they got. They were a talented group who were stuck with the wrong writers.

        Originally posted by virginiabrasil View Post
        GW: Rachel [Luttrell, "Teyla Emmagan"] said she went through five or six auditions.

        JF: She did, and I was there with her, because I read for her. After that I read with all the other actors who were auditioning for the parts. And, yes, they took her though a much more painful process, so she deserves more.This interview was with Joe Flanigan in December 2004 at GateWorld. After reading again, I confirmed what everyone was sure: the chemistry that existed between Rachel and Joe brought the characters to success. But the producers realized after the 3rd season, which was intended to sheyla stay together, at 4 ° temporada thought of change and messed up everything. I hope you understand my thinking, I wanted to express that thought while I thought it might be today, thank you.
        Yeah, I remember reading about how many auditions Rachel had to go through to get the part. I wonder what TPTB was looking for? Although going through all of those auditions must have been grueling, at least Rachel and Joe became good friends because of them. If I remember correctly by the time she got the part, she didn't have much time before shooting started so it must have been a relief to have a friend on the set.

        And, it must have been even better when the entire cast got to know each other and became friends. It's always great to see video clips of how close they are at cons. If we can't get a movie that does them justice then I hope they will all be able to attend some of the cons together.

        Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
        That's what makes it so frustrating becuase it did have potential to be a great show. But unfortuately for one reason or another it fell way short, it fell flat and it got worse as the seasons went on. Their obsession with certain characters pretty much ruined the show beyond recongnition for me anyways I don't own S5 either. I wouldn't buy that piece of drivel, I was even contemplating selling the other seasons of SGA
        Yes, the lost opportunity to live up to SGA's potential will bother me for years to come. SGA has joined Andromeda for me as one of the shows that just let greatness slip through its fingers.

        Although I'm not quite as disillusioned as you are (I can still enjoy Seasons 1-4), I can't ever see myself watching all of Season 5. Although I loved Search and Rescue and thought it was one of the best season openers (Teyla actually had a bit of focus--YAYYY!), there were just too many turds later that season.

        In fact, the Shrine was when I knew things would never get better in Season 5 because I realized that if the writers had the nerve to write a Tao of Rodney *II* when the other characters never even got a Tao I - that Season 5 would continue to be McKay-focused at the expense of the other main characters.

        Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
        And there's proof right there that when it comes to writing romance (and I say that in the loosest terms) they fall perilously short on all counts. They simply don't have the capabilities to write romance in any shape or form. Whether you ship John/Teyla, John/Weir, Rodney/Keller, Ronon/Keller etc, they screwed the whole lot of them up and there's another reason the show became so bad in the end

        IMO if they really want SGU to be a success then they would be well advised to leave romance alone, don't even attempt it, don't even think about it, don't even dream it. Because given past attempts. It's got fail written all over it.
        You would think that after failing so miserably so often that these writers would stop trying to include romance, but they truly don't seem to realize how much they suck at this. That's scary!

        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        Besides does Teyla really need a guy or a girl to be a complete character? As far as I am concerned she's strong enough on her own to kick some serious booty as a character. She doesn't need to have a strong man or protective girl hoovering nearby to safe the damsel in distress, because that's not Teyla... at least not the Teyla I know.
        I agree that Teyla was a strong enough character that she didn't need a mate, however, if TPTB were going to give her a mate then I wish they would have thought it through carefully. Unfortunately, these writers didn't just suck at writing romance, they also sucked at world building and character development. Kanaan was doomed from the beginning because he was an afterthought that was brought in because they wanted to write in Rachel's pregnancy. And, whatever made them think that they could write an interesting pregnancy storyline?

        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        And yet, I think as far as Kanaan as concerned - with the material they had, which I reckon wasn't much, it worked out quite alright. Not good, far from it, but not horrendously bad either. TPTB forgot him more than they should have, and turned Teyla into a helpless damsel a wee bit too much after Torren arrived... but hey... what else would we have expected from these guys? McKay is their hero, not Teyla.
        You have a good point because as bad as Kanaan's addition was, if they had concentrated on the character, it could have been worse... much worse because these writers don't have a good track record of doing well by the characters they focus on.

        Originally posted by Jeyla4ever View Post
        Hi everyone.....

        I agree that the writers did a poor job, but even Weir got some serious relationship in regards to some sort of romance from two characters and yet Teyla had an entire season with her pregnancy and nothing more than Kanaan was mentioned than the repeated phrase, "the father of my son" and "we are childhood friends with the same Wraith gene".

        That's not an excuse worth even giving these writers the leeway of they are men and what else can we expect. They did wrong to Teyla for whatever reason and it's not because they didn't have enough time to write something plausible and it wasn't because Rachel herself wasn't willing due to her pregnancy. I have my own thoughts on the matter but it's done and it's a shame too because you are right, FH...Teyla doesn't need any love interest to complete her as a character but it would have been nice to see that side of her completely since the writers themselves expected us to believe it. You know what I mean?

        In any case, I don't feel that Kanaan was the love of her life. She herself described him to Keller and to Carter as childhood friends who had just become more than that recently. She even stated to John and Ronon in her pregnancy confession that it just happened, which can be interpreted in many different ways, but clearly that pregnancy was an unexpected surprise for her. In addition, she didn't want to tell her teammates and described it as "complicated". What was complicated? That she wanted to continue on fighting? If Teyla wanted to leave Atlantis and go off on her own to fight her people she could have and she didn't need Sheppard or his team to do that..so what was complicated? No one would have held her back...well, I think John would have but that's just me. The complication meaning for me meant in terms of her relationship with her teammates. On how John would react, in particularly and what that would mean to her as far of her presence in his team, which only means that this meant a lot to Teyla. That baby was an unexpected little surprise which can also mean that she wasn't taking that relationship with Kanaan that seriously either, at least not yet because she did want to continue to fight alongside Sheppard's team. That can also be clearly seen when she was faced with the idea of leaving the team or staying. So, that baby, Kanaan, wasn't all what she wanted and to some extent was even forced to accept Kanaan as more than just a lover.

        Just my two cents.

        In any case, love the convo here and I hope you guys don't mind my two cents here since I"m not here that much, but the reality, I miss Teyla too much! I wish she was back on screen.
        Good points.
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          I think the writers thought that because Teyla is a woman that her ultimate goal in life was to have a family and settle down and live happily ever after...

          Being an independant woman and the leader of her people wasn't enough for her. They couldnt accept that Teyla could be intimate with a man and even fall pregnant and not have to devote the rest of her life to that person .

          But they tried to turn her into the little suburban "wife", whose life should be devoted to her new family... eventhough they made no effort to show any feelings between the two of them.. Kanaan was just concocted up to explain Rachel's pregnancy eventhough there were numerous other and more plausible ways of doing so... there was nothing believable about the relationship..he came out of thin air and we didnt even have the benefit of any chemistry between the actors..

          I wonder how believable it would have been for John to suddenly announce that he was secretly seeing someone for quite some time.. without the knowledge of his closest friends and annouces he's going to be a Daddy.. um ..it just happened... how about Chaya... we know he had a crush of her back then.. and his explanation could have been, he didnt think she could become pregnant from doing the "glowy thing"... that's almost as lame as Teyla not taking precautions against pregnancy and then being surprised at the outcome....
          So would we have imbraced John's new little sprog and listened to him talk about the mother of his child and wonder if he should still stay on the team...

          Do we think any of the guys would get such a rediculous storyline....but unfortunately the writers still think woman live in the 50's and I guess didnt want to taint Teyla's reputation with a one night stand or an intimate relationship but no plans of having the picket fence and living happily ever after with the guy.. It would have been nice to see Teyla cope with being a single mom... raising her child and continuing her job just like a lot of women in the real world actually end up doing and still manage to find happiness and even end up with someone besides the "father of their child"..
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            Originally posted by bluealien View Post
            ...the picket fence...
            The Athosians have picket fences?!?

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              Originally posted by bluealien View Post
              for John to suddenly announce that he was secretly seeing someone for quite some time.. without the knowledge of his closest friends and annouces he's going to be a Daddy.. um ..it just happened... how about Chaya... we know he had a crush of her back then.. and his explanation could have been, he didnt think she could become pregnant from doing the "glowy thing".......

              want to taint Teyla's reputation with a one night stand or an intimate relationship but no plans of having the picket fence and living happily ever after with the guy..
              ROF....woman, you just had me peeing on myself!

              But Blue...they did make it look like a one night stand. She had to go find him desperately or else it would have been!!! Besides, she needed a babysitter so she could still go and be the kick ass girl. Oh, wait. We hardly saw that either.

              How sad. There was simply no point into the characters.

              Still, I love The Queen and I wished she had done so much more in Prodigal.

              FH...you have me rolling too!

              Thanks Donna! As much as it would have pained me to see Teyla with another man and loving him besides John, that would have been way better than what we got from Teyla's character. I saw more emotion and passion in her when she interacts with her team than the few times she did with Kanaan.
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                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                I agree that in the hands of writers willing to write for *all* the main characters SGA could have easily gone on for many more years.
                They did write for all the main characters...Ya know, the two main characters that were on the show. The others? Well they were just background material, weren't they?

                Am I becoming cynical in my old ago?


                Yes, the lost opportunity to live up to SGA's potential will bother me for years to come. SGA has joined Andromeda for me as one of the shows that just let greatness slip through its fingers.
                Oh good lord, Andromeda's last season was almost as bad as SGA's

                Although I'm not quite as disillusioned as you are (I can still enjoy Seasons 1-4), I can't ever see myself watching all of Season 5. Although I loved Search and Rescue and thought it was one of the best season openers (Teyla actually had a bit of focus--YAYYY!), there were just too many turds later that season.
                I hope you don't get as disillusioned as I was But I'm over SGA now for the most part. I have lots of other shows I am enjoying, and I'm back in a Doris Day mood again so I'm watching some of her movies which always cheers me up

                In fact, the Shrine was when I knew things would never get better in Season 5 because I realized that if the writers had the nerve to write a Tao of Rodney *II* when the other characters never even got a Tao I - that Season 5 would continue to be McKay-focused at the expense of the other main characters.
                Oh boy....You had to remind me of the piece of drivel The Shrine I'm not really surprised we got Tao of Rodney II, what I am surprised at though is that we didn't get a Tao part III, IV, V, VI etc *takes deep breath* "go to your happy place, go to your happy place" *breaths out* Okay...I'm fine now


                You would think that after failing so miserably so often that these writers would stop trying to include romance, but they truly don't seem to realize how much they suck at this. That's scary!
                Scarier than blowing up a sun?


                Originally posted by bluealien View Post
                I think the writers thought that because Teyla is a woman that her ultimate goal in life was to have a family and settle down and live happily ever after...

                Being an independant woman and the leader of her people wasn't enough for her. They couldnt accept that Teyla could be intimate with a man and even fall pregnant and not have to devote the rest of her life to that person .

                But they tried to turn her into the little suburban "wife", whose life should be devoted to her new family... eventhough they made no effort to show any feelings between the two of them.. Kanaan was just concocted up to explain Rachel's pregnancy eventhough there were numerous other and more plausible ways of doing so... there was nothing believable about the relationship..he came out of thin air and we didnt even have the benefit of any chemistry between the actors..

                I wonder how believable it would have been for John to suddenly announce that he was secretly seeing someone for quite some time.. without the knowledge of his closest friends and annouces he's going to be a Daddy.. um ..it just happened... how about Chaya... we know he had a crush of her back then.. and his explanation could have been, he didnt think she could become pregnant from doing the "glowy thing"... that's almost as lame as Teyla not taking precautions against pregnancy and then being surprised at the outcome....
                So would we have imbraced John's new little sprog and listened to him talk about the mother of his child and wonder if he should still stay on the team...

                Do we think any of the guys would get such a rediculous storyline....but unfortunately the writers still think woman live in the 50's and I guess didnt want to taint Teyla's reputation with a one night stand or an intimate relationship but no plans of having the picket fence and living happily ever after with the guy.. It would have been nice to see Teyla cope with being a single mom... raising her child and continuing her job just like a lot of women in the real world actually end up doing and still manage to find happiness and even end up with someone besides the "father of their child"..
                It would have been more believable if it was someone like say, Lorne that was the father....He least he had something like, oh I don't know.......ACTUAL SCREENTIME WITH TEYLA... Even if it wasn't much

                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                The Athosians have picket fences?!?

                Didn't you prod yourself on one of those picket fences when you weren't looking where you were going when you went air surfing.......Or was that someone else
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                  Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                  Didn't you prod yourself on one of those picket fences when you weren't looking where you were going when you went air surfing.......Or was that someone else
                  I try not to remember that painful moment... comes close to falling off a horse mid-gallop.
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                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    They did write for all the main characters...Ya know, the two main characters that were on the show. The others? Well they were just background material, weren't they?

                    Am I becoming cynical in my old ago?
                    Oh, hush!



                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    Oh good lord, Andromeda's last season was almost as bad as SGA's
                    Wow, you stuck around to watch Andromeda's last season! I was out of there after Season 3.



                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    I hope you don't get as disillusioned as I was But I'm over SGA now for the most part. I have lots of other shows I am enjoying, and I'm back in a Doris Day mood again so I'm watching some of her movies which always cheers me up
                    Oh, you have good taste, I love Doris Day movies! I recently watched the first two she did with Rock Hudson.

                    No, I doubt I'll ever reach your level of disillusionment with SGA because despite Season 5's general suckiness, I can still enjoy SGA. However, I do understand how you feel about SGA because I felt that way about Andromeda when I stopped watching it. I had to take a several years long break from that series before I was able to start watching the first few seasons again.


                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    Oh boy....You had to remind me of the piece of drivel The Shrine I'm not really surprised we got Tao of Rodney II, what I am surprised at though is that we didn't get a Tao part III, IV, V, VI etc *takes deep breath* "go to your happy place, go to your happy place" *breaths out* Okay...I'm fine now
                    That's right, Linda, take deep soothing breaths - breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out...


                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    Scarier than blowing up a sun?
                    Yep, these writers attempting to write romance is much, much scarier.
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                      Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                      Yep, these writers attempting to write romance is much, much scarier.
                      Like a bad B-horror movie?
                      Or like me almost killing myself falling off my horse last week?

                      Okay, maybe that last one is scarier than the writer's attempt at romance.
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                        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                        Like a bad B-horror movie?
                        Or like me almost killing myself falling off my horse last week?

                        Okay, maybe that last one is scarier than the writer's attempt at romance.
                        Hmmm, bad B-horror movies can be fun to watch, so not scarier than those. However, your fall sounds very scary. Are you okay?

                        If you are, then I have say that the writers' attempts to write romance is scarier because their pitiful attempts have negatively affected so much of Stargate for me.
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                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          I try not to remember that painful moment... comes close to falling off a horse mid-gallop.
                          OUCH Are you okay though my little Lemming friend

                          Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                          Oh, hush!
                          What?


                          Wow, you stuck around to watch Andromeda's last season! I was out of there after Season 3.
                          Oh believe me I wish I hadn't I mean Rommie wasn't in it for most of the season And well it was just awful, and quite confusing the last season...And you know how easily confused I get


                          Oh, you have good taste, I love Doris Day movies! I recently watched the first two she did with Rock Hudson.

                          No, I doubt I'll ever reach your level of disillusionment with SGA because despite Season 5's general suckiness, I can still enjoy SGA. However, I do understand how you feel about SGA because I felt that way about Andromeda when I stopped watching it. I had to take a several years long break from that series before I was able to start watching the first few seasons again.
                          Doris Day rocks Um yeah no pun intended there I love her acting and especially her singing Do you know she helps animals now. I think she started animal sanctuaries, or funded them or something. I think she helped a great deal too A woman after my own heart. An animal lover

                          Yes I think the way I feel about SGA is the way you feel about Andromeda I think it may be a long time before I can bring myself to watch SGA again. I think the one thing that didin't help my cause is that I despise Rodney and he's in every ep so that doesn't help, plus he's front and centre in most of the eps, so double whammy And then Keller comes along and it's triple whammy


                          That's right, Linda, take deep soothing breaths - breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out...
                          *breaths in...and out....in...and out* mmmmmm much better


                          Yep, these writers attempting to write romance is much, much scarier.
                          Scarier than little Lemming almost impaling herself on a picket fence while air surfing

                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          Like a bad B-horror movie?
                          Or like me almost killing myself falling off my horse last week?

                          Okay, maybe that last one is scarier than the writer's attempt at romance.
                          Well SGA didn't do a bad B-horror movie but they did do a terribly bad B-horror-esc episode...It was called Whispers
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                            Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                            Scarier than little Lemming almost impaling herself on a picket fence while air surfing
                            Actually that was me who almost impaled herself

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                              Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                              However, your fall sounds very scary. Are you okay?
                              Battered and bruised... Might have had a minor concussion, and nearly broke my nose (it did feel like twice its size on Sunday and I couldn't stand wearing my glasses the last two days - very uncomfortable). Hit a wooden wall too apparently but can't remember that. My left knee was twice its size and is currently covered in a big fat bruise, and my left elbow is a bit sore.
                              The muscles in my neck were all stiff for two days, and my ass hurt too. My glasses are a bit on the wibbly side at the moment but not broken.

                              Mmm... yeah... it was definitely interesting. I'll be skipping this week, just to be on the safe side. And next week I have a party to go to on Saturday so no riding on Sunday either. But the week after that I will probably go back.
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                                Originally posted by Princess Awinita View Post
                                Actually that was me who almost impaled herself
                                Oh Well I didn't see who it was, I closed my eyes when I saw a body come careering to the ground

                                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                                Battered and bruised... Might have had a minor concussion, and nearly broke my nose (it did feel like twice its size on Sunday and I couldn't stand wearing my glasses the last two days - very uncomfortable). Hit a wooden wall too apparently but can't remember that. My left knee was twice its size and is currently covered in a big fat bruise, and my left elbow is a bit sore.
                                The muscles in my neck were all stiff for two days, and my ass hurt too. My glasses are a bit on the wibbly side at the moment but not broken.

                                Mmm... yeah... it was definitely interesting. I'll be skipping this week, just to be on the safe side. And next week I have a party to go to on Saturday so no riding on Sunday either. But the week after that I will probably go back.
                                Oh poor you *gently places some marshmallows in little Lemmings mouth*
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