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    Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
    Maxbo, once again in your wisdom, you are so right. They missed almost every opportunity to make Teyla a real part of what was going on, and to make her more than just a tool that they used whenever they needed to get inside of a Wraith’s head.
    Well you know, the sonic screwdriver can do almost anything What? Ya know someone had to say it *snicker* *runs away*

    Nope, I took some advil and I’m okay. Thanks for the offer. You’re such a sweetheart!
    Oh good, so advil is kinda like Disprin?


    I’m starting to feel the same way. Gero’s done some good work, but he has also been very disappointing too. He wrote that line in First Contact. Need I say more?

    As far as Mallozzi, Mullie, and even Wright go, I gave up on them a long time ago.
    If they surprise me, great. But, I don't expect anything from them.

    Have a great day.
    Well as for Gero I will say one word.....McKeller

    I rest my case

    Originally posted by maxbo View Post
    No, their books (Stargate Atlantis: Legacy, Homecoming, Book 1 and Stargate Atlantis: Legacy, Death Game, Book 2) aren't available yet. I have Death Game on advance order mode on Amazon.com, but I can't find Homecoming on that site for some reason. I found Homecoming on a different site ( http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/g/jo-graham/), but the availability dates are screwy because book 2, Death Game is listed as coming out in July 2010, but book 1, Homecoming is listed as coming out later in October 2010.

    As for the SGA writers - yes, it absolutely sucks that they weren't as dedicated to SGA, the series, as Jo and Melissa are to the SGA novels. And, what's even more amazing is that they didn't seem to care if SGA's viewers found out about their lack of dedication because the internet is full of comments they've made confirming how little thought they put into crafting SGA. Amazing.

    The only good thing about SGA, the series, endiing is that I no longer have to be concerned about how much more Mallozzi & Co. could screw over the characters before the end.
    You mean they could have screwed over the characters even more than they already did? Ooh that's a scary thought
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      Maxbo - Death Game isn't part of the Legacy series. It's set in season 2 Book 2 of Legacy is The Lost.
      What we do in life echoes in eternity - Gladiator vghUp the Blades!

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        Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post
        Maxbo - Death Game isn't part of the Legacy series. It's set in season 2 Book 2 of Legacy is The Lost.
        Just to expand on my own post now that I'm not on my phone!

        Death Game is out in July, it's not part of the Legacy series, but it is written by Jo Graham and some of the backstory in it will be followed up on in Legacy. Book 2 is The Lost (I colated what we know of that book here: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...1#post11287506. Book 3 is Alliegence and Book 4 The Avengers.
        What we do in life echoes in eternity - Gladiator vghUp the Blades!

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          Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post
          Maxbo - Death Game isn't part of the Legacy series. It's set in season 2 Book 2 of Legacy is The Lost.
          Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post
          Just to expand on my own post now that I'm not on my phone!

          Death Game is out in July, it's not part of the Legacy series, but it is written by Jo Graham and some of the backstory in it will be followed up on in Legacy. Book 2 is The Lost (I colated what we know of that book here: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...1#post11287506. Book 3 is Alliegence and Book 4 The Avengers.
          Thanks for providing the correct information, Cazz.

          For some reason, this site, http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/g/jo-graham/, has Death Game as a part of the Legacy series with out of order availability dates. I hope they make the corrections soon.
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            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            Maxbo, once again in your wisdom, you are so right. They missed almost every opportunity to make Teyla a real part of what was going on, and to make her more than just a tool that they used whenever they needed to get inside of a Wraith’s head.

            ----------------------------------------------
            Here’s an example from First Contact:

            CORRIDOR. John and Richard are walking along. Richard has a large bag over his shoulder.

            WOOLSEY: As soon as the Daedalus unloads its supplies, we'll be heading off to meet up with Todd and one of his Hives.

            SHEPPARD: You really think he's gonna show up, huh, and let you guys try out Doctor Keller's gene therapy on a few of his guys?

            WOOLSEY: Well, we held up our end of the deal. We let him use Teyla to take control of an alliance of Wraith Hives.
            ----------------------------------------------
            UGGHHHHH!!!!!!! I had forgotten about this scene! This is why Daedalus Variations is the only Season 5 episode I can watch without getting annoyed at some point because all the other Season 5 episodes that I like have nasty little mindfields like the scene you listed above. So disappointing!

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            Now, don’t get me wrong. I like this episode, but I didn’t like that line. Teyla isn’t a thing, she’s a person. They may have allowed for Teyla to help as a part of the Atlantis expedition, or supported Teyla in her choosing to help Todd, but they didn’t let him use her. She isn’t a car or a pen that you let someone use as long as they promise they will give it back.
            Indeed. The writers pulled the same crap in The Queen because there's a scene where Keller pretty much echos what Woolsey said above. Implying that Teyla was incapable of being an active participant in the events leading up to The Queen. Again... UGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            But, this is how they wrote (or didn’t write) for her. And it’s no small wonder that she’s the character that’s coming in dead last on the new GW poll that’s out “Which Atlantis cast member would you MOST like to see guest star on the new show?”

            Ford hasn’t been on the show since the middle of season 2 and he has almost twice the votes as Teyla. Keller and Wolsey even got more votes. This is because every other character was written in such a way that they make more sense. It is so sad. Keller is at least a doctor that can help via the stones, and Wolsey being from the IOA would make a realistic appearance back on Earth during discussions of what to do to help the people stranded on the Destiny. Ford is lost in space, so it’s possible that he could be encountered after an FTL jump. Elizabeth is a replicator capable of transmitting signals, and she’s floating next to a gate, frozen. Something could happen to unfreeze her or someone could pick her up and befriend her while traveling farther out into the universe... Again, this is so sad. It’s this sort of thing that makes me frustrated with how badly they handled her character. The writers’ disrespect of the Teyla character adds to my lack of respect for them. This may sound harsh, but that’s how I feel.
            I minute I saw that poll, I knew Teyla wouldn't place well, so, sadly no surprises there.

            However, I'm so used to Teyla not getting any respect from SGA's writers (and therefore from some of SGA's fans) that I have no qualms about sharing how much I don't respect most of SGA's writers. So, no, I don't think that your lack of respect for these writers make you sound harsh. IMO, they didn't respect SGA or its fans, therefore, as an SGA fan, I have no reason to respect them.

            The pathetic writing for Teyla is just one of many reasons why I don't respect this group of writers. For instance, SGA's writers had a nasty habit of changing their characters to fit their plots and even worse, they weren't above trying to manipulate the audience into liking the characters that they (the writers) loved - at the expense of the characters that they merely tolerated. For instance, according to the writers, Zelenka was a creepy little man that no one liked, which was a surprise to SGA's viewers because we never saw that on screen. I think they came up with that fantasy when they realized how popular Zelenka was and got tired of fans asking to see more of him instead of the writers' favorites.

            They also pulled the same wierdness when they tried to claim that Sheppard was never Mensa material. To this day, that nasty little scene in First Contact, where Rodney and Daniel Jackson mocked Sheppard, bothers me because in addition to trying to dumb down Sheppard, I thought it was out of character for Rodney and Daniel to work together to mock him.

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            Poor Rachel really did bring a lot to the table. If it weren’t for her, Teyla would have been as boring as a pile of bricks. The writing just wasn’t there.
            I agree that Rachel did an amazing job with the little that she was given and she's the main reason why Teyla is my favorite character. The fact that she was able to bring this character to life with such dismal writing is a miracle that I will always appreciate.

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            I agree with you that we needed more moments like that great rarity you showed from Instinct. As you’ve pointed out, they didn’t do right by so many characters, but I think Teyla gets the award in the “most short shrifted” catagory. So much more could have been done, so much more...
            I'm convinced that that great scene in Instinct was an accident because, unfortunately, I can't see this group of writers putting enough thought into Teyla and Ronon to purposely try to highlight their differences and develop them as two distinct characters. Each had a fascinating background that I wish would have been explored more.

            I must say that as much as I hate the final product of most of SGA's writers, they were good at creating interesting characters and an interesting premise with SGA. Unfortunately, thay lacked the will and drive to delve deeper than the broad outlines they created.

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            I'll end this on a more positive note and say "Have a great day."
            Thanks - you too. Positive is good.

            Originally posted by Atlantis4Life View Post
            @Maxbo

            I just read your latest entry, and I couldn't agree more. Thank you for providing those quotes from Jo Graham. Now I know that the book will be good. She sounds like the kind of writer that Atlantis needed all along. Too bad that we won't actually get to "see" what she's written on screen, but at least we get to see it in our mind's eye. She is so right on so many levels. Thanks.
            I agree. Can you imagine how good SGA could have been with writers like Jo Graham on board? At this point, Babylon 5 is my holy grail of what a sci-fi/fantasy series could be, but if SGA had the right kind of writers, IMO, it could have been right up there with Babylon 5.

            Oh well, at least we have her books to look forward to.

            Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
            Well as for Gero I will say one word.....McKeller

            I rest my case
            Yeah, Gero may have done good work in the past, but I'm convinced that it was because he was kept under control back then. The minute he was allowed full control, it got ugly. After all, he considered Brainstorm his "gift" to poor David and Jewel. Yee Gods, talk about being out of touch!



            Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
            You mean they could have screwed over the characters even more than they already did? Ooh that's a scary thought
            Yeah, scary, isn't it? But, after seeing them make the same type of mistakes with the first half of SGU, I'm convinced that it could have gotten a whole lot uglier if SGA had gotten a Season 6. Sure, I would have still wanted a Season 6 because out of 20 episodes, there were bound to be a few that I enjoyed, however, I would have braced myself for continued character assassination, etc. for as long as Rachel Luttrell was on the show.
            Last edited by maxbo; 16 March 2010, 10:47 AM.
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              Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post
              Just to expand on my own post now that I'm not on my phone!

              Death Game is out in July, it's not part of the Legacy series, but it is written by Jo Graham and some of the backstory in it will be followed up on in Legacy. Book 2 is The Lost (I colated what we know of that book here: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...1#post11287506. Book 3 is Alliegence and Book 4 The Avengers.
              *grabs Cazz's phone* Get off the phone and pay attention to what you are trying to say

              Originally posted by maxbo View Post
              However, I'm so used to Teyla not getting any respect from SGA's writers (and therefore from some of SGA's fans) that I have no qualms about sharing how much I don't respect most of SGA's writers. So, no, I don't think that your lack of respect for these writers make you sound harsh. IMO, they didn't respect SGA or its fans, therefore, as an SGA fan, I have no reason to respect them.

              The pathetic writing for Teyla is just one of many reasons why I don't respect this group of writers. For instance, SGA's writers had a nasty habit of changing their characters to fit their plots and even worse, they weren't above trying to manipulate the audience into liking the characters that they (the writers) loved - at the expense of the characters that they merely tolerated. For instance, according to the writers, Zelenka was a creepy little man that no one liked, which was a surprise to SGA's viewers because we never saw that on screen. I think they came up with that fantasy when they realized how popular Zelenka was and got tired of fans asking to see more of him instead of the writers' favorites.

              They also pulled the same wierdness when they tried to claim that Sheppard was never Mensa material. To this day, that nasty little scene in First Contact, where Rodney and Daniel Jackson mocked Sheppard, bothers me because in addition to trying to dumb down Sheppard, I thought it was out of character for Rodney and Daniel to work together to mock him.
              I lost respect for these writers a long long time ago with the exception of my writing god and his apprentice

              I like Zelenka, he's sweet I wish we saw more of him instead of McKay. I also liked the few scenes we got with Zelenka and Teyla, they had good on screen chemistry. It's a pity no one was allowed many scenes unless your name begins with R and ends with y There was so many good characters with good chemistry, Teyla/Zelenka, Teyla/Lorne, Teyla/John, Teyla/Ronon, Teyla/Carson, John/Ronon, John/Carson etc.....It's a pity that most of those didn't get any real ample proper screeentime. All they seemed interested in was the McShep show and then giving us the dreadful McKeller. Heck I would have preferred any other relationship than McKeller, yes even Teyla/Kanaan if they had wrote it properly and gave it proper development instead of hamfisting it in there to explain away the pregnancy

              heh, um.....Sorry, I didn't mean to go on a long rant there. I was actually gonna talk about something else, dunno where that came from


              I agree that Rachel did an amazing job with the little that she was given and she's the main reason why Teyla is my favorite character. The fact that she was able to bring this character to life with such dismal writing is a miracle that I will always appreciate.
              A miracle indeed, a miracle of epic proportions


              I'm convinced that that great scene in Instinct was an accident because, unfortunately, I can't see this group of writers putting enough thought into Teyla and Ronon to purposely try to highlight their differences and develop them as two distinct characters. Each had a fascinating background that I wish would have been explored more.
              Well it may not have been an accident after all...I looked Instinct up and compared to Gateworld Treena Hancock & Melissa R. Byer wrote the ep and Andy Mikita directed it. Take off that what you will


              Yeah, Gero may had done good work in the past, but I'm convinced that it was because he was keep under control back then. The minute he was allowed full control, it got ugly. After all, he considered Brainstorm his "gift" to poor David and Jewel. Yee Gods, talk about being out of touch!
              All his good work became undone when he created McKeller I am so glad that he was on a short leash for so long


              Yeah, scary, isn't it? But, after seeing them make the same type of mistakes with the first half of SGU, I'm convinced that it could have gotten a whole lot uglier if SGA had gotten a Season 6. Sure, I would have still wanted a Season 6 because out of 20 episodes, there were bound to be a few that I enjoyed, however, I would have braced myself for continued character assassination, etc. for as long as Rachel Luttrell was on the show.
              Hmm, yeah there has been a few......Mistakes on SGU in the first half. But I am giving it the first season to keep me watching. If my worst fears come to pass then that's it for me. They will lose me as a viewer.
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                Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                I lost respect for these writers a long long time ago with the exception of my writing god and his apprentice

                I like Zelenka, he's sweet I wish we saw more of him instead of McKay. I also liked the few scenes we got with Zelenka and Teyla, they had good on screen chemistry. It's a pity no one was allowed many scenes unless your name begins with R and ends with y There was so many good characters with good chemistry, Teyla/Zelenka, Teyla/Lorne, Teyla/John, Teyla/Ronon, Teyla/Carson, John/Ronon, John/Carson etc.....It's a pity that most of those didn't get any real ample proper screeentime. All they seemed interested in was the McShep show and then giving us the dreadful McKeller. Heck I would have preferred any other relationship than McKeller, yes even Teyla/Kanaan if they had wrote it properly and gave it proper development instead of hamfisting it in there to explain away the pregnancy
                Yes, there were so many missed opportunities to explore non-standard character interactions. In addition to your excellent list - "Teyla/Zelenka, Teyla/Lorne, Teyla/John, Teyla/Ronon, Teyla/Carson, John/Ronon, John/Carson etc.", I had always wanted to see a Teyla/Elizabeth episode. Although I didn't hate Missing, it annoyed me that they did an episode with Teyla and Keller, but never did one with Teyla and Elizabeth.

                And, I also found it interesting that for all of their Rodney-focus, they rarely had any Teyla/Rodney scenes. As much as I detested Brainstorm, I would have watched it if Rodney had asked Teyla to accompany him. Hell, I would have wanted BS if anyone other than Keller had joined him.

                Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                heh, um.....Sorry, I didn't mean to go on a long rant there. I was actually gonna talk about something else, dunno where that came from
                Hey, rant away, when thinking about the lousy writing on SGA, it's hard not to rant.

                Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                Well it may not have been an accident after all...I looked Instinct up and compared to Gateworld Treena Hancock & Melissa R. Byer wrote the ep and Andy Mikita directed it. Take off that what you will
                Interesting, I didn't realize that Instinct had been written by freelancers - and female freelancers at that. I suppose I shouldn't be suprised because one of my favorite Season 3 episodes, Common Ground, was written by a freelancer, Ken Cuperus. That episode had the best Sheppard/Todd interactions and I loved that Todd's restoration of Sheppard was treated as a very rare gift. Unfortunately, IMO, the regular SGA writers misused this gift of life in later episodes. As a result, its specialness was diminished.

                Yes, Instinct, had some nice Teyla scenes so that should have clued me in that it wasn't written by the usual SGA writers.

                Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                All his good work became undone when he created McKeller I am so glad that he was on a short leash for so long
                I agree - just the thought of how much damage he could have caused if SGA had not been cancelled almost makes me relieved that SGA never got a 6th season.

                Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                Hmm, yeah there has been a few......Mistakes on SGU in the first half. But I am giving it the first season to keep me watching. If my worst fears come to pass then that's it for me. They will lose me as a viewer.
                Well, I wish you the best. I watched the first 10 episodes because I wanted to see if these writers had learned from their past mistakes (like not thinking through their ideas), but after seeing that they hadn't, I'm done watching full time. I may tune in to see Space, "Gatefail" and possibly the season finale, but that's it.
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                  Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                  Yes, there were so many missed opportunities to explore non-standard character interactions. In addition to your excellent list - "Teyla/Zelenka, Teyla/Lorne, Teyla/John, Teyla/Ronon, Teyla/Carson, John/Ronon, John/Carson etc.", I had always wanted to see a Teyla/Elizabeth episode. Although I didn't hate Missing, it annoyed me that they did an episode with Teyla and Keller, but never did one with Teyla and Elizabeth.

                  And, I also found it interesting that for all of their Rodney-focus, they rarely had any Teyla/Rodney scenes. As much as I detested Brainstorm, I would have watched it if Rodney had asked Teyla to accompany him. Hell, I would have wanted BS if anyone other than Keller had joined him.
                  Yeah, I wish they explored Teyla/Elizabeth at some point but they never did. Was it because they were female? hmm, I think that could be it. You know how bad they are at writing females

                  I did notice that, about the extreme lack of Rodney/Teyla scenes. It's a real shame, I think there could have been good scenes between them. They did have a little time in Daedalus Variations which I liked but there was hardly any scenes with them both over the course of 5 years. And I wish, I really really wish I never watched BS (heehee, that abbreviation never gets old ), but luckily a goldfish memory comes in very handy


                  Hey, rant away, when thinking about the lousy writing on SGA, it's hard not to rant.
                  I know It still makes me so frustrated thinking about it


                  Interesting, I didn't realize that Instinct had been written by freelancers - and female freelancers at that. I suppose I shouldn't be suprised because one of my favorite Season 3 episodes, Common Ground, was written by a freelancer, Ken Cuperus. That episode had the best Sheppard/Todd interactions and I loved that Todd's restoration of Sheppard was treated as a very rare gift. Unfortunately, IMO, the regular SGA writers misused this gift of life in later episodes. As a result, its specialness was diminished.

                  Yes, Instinct, had some nice Teyla scenes so that should have clued me in that it wasn't written by the usual SGA writers.
                  Ken Cuperus also wrote Submersion I wish they kept him He could do sort of darker eps without it looking ridiculous

                  Yep, see what could have been if they only got some new blood in the writing department. I think most of season 4 and 5 were just the same old same old


                  I agree - just the thought of how much damage he could have caused if SGA had not been cancelled almost makes me relieved that SGA never got a 6th season.
                  Oh I dread to think


                  Well, I wish you the best. I watched the first 10 episodes because I wanted to see if these writers had learned from their past mistakes (like not thinking through their ideas), but after seeing that they hadn't, I'm done watching full time. I may tune in to see Space, "Gatefail" and possibly the season finale, but that's it.
                  I think it started off quite promising but as the season went on I did start to get a little frustrated with it (sound familiar? ) Is it ironic that my fave character so far in SGU is TJ? One of the one's who hardly gets used? I swear, I'm a glutton for punishment But if my worst fears come true, from the rumours i've heard, then that will be the final nail in the coffin where Stargate is concerned. I will still support SG-1 but as far as SGA and SGU will be concerned? That would be me finished Let's hope my fears don't happen. It's funny though, I haven't really missed SGU all that much since the break *shrugs*
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                    Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                    Ken Cuperus also wrote Submersion I wish they kept him He could do sort of darker eps without it looking ridiculous
                    And The Ark!
                    What we do in life echoes in eternity - Gladiator vghUp the Blades!

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                      Wow; its been a while since I was last in this thread. (remembers when she stayed in this thread only for the longest time before finding other threads on gateworld), anyhow I wanted to pop in and say thusly two things have ciome to mind that some would want to ask "what was that scene about?"

                      Basically I've been bitten by the writing bug again and one of the stories was inspired by the recent Tim Burton movie Alice in Wonderland (AKA The Looking Glass War), in which case poor Teyla takes a trip down the rabbit hole.... a long trip..... (please do not ask )

                      Then as some of you know I have a Deviant Art account, on there i left a DA journal posting saying of a hope to publish bopok titled Legend of the Wu Tang Cat, with mentioning of a woman named Teyla being a friend of the main character (named after my own Silver Tabby AR!, who's a doll!!), If you guys want to read more or leave comments about the second of the two stories, please stop by here and pop a comment on my journal.

                      NOTE: you MUST be a member of DA to leave comments on journals or art. Also I have a few need to make art requests for a story written as a collab but with me as the editor-ff.net updater

                      Thanks guys

                      Awinita

                      This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete
                      "Elegant beauty is Nature. but only for the gentle and soft Flower" ~Hu Ge
                      "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

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                        Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post
                        And The Ark!
                        Hey this is me, you're lucky I remembered those two
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                          Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                          Yeah, I wish they explored Teyla/Elizabeth at some point but they never did. Was it because they were female? hmm, I think that could be it. You know how bad they are at writing females
                          Yep, SGA's writers treated Teyla and Elizabeth as if they had girl cooties because they were rarely used to drive the storylines. And, in those rare instances where one of them was the episode focus, then the other was usually wallpapered. It was as if the writers were incapable of seeing female characters relate to each other without the male characters around.

                          In fact, after Season 1's Suspicion, I don't remember Teyla and Elizabeth having any scenes alone together until Season 3's Sunday. After that, there were a few more Teyla/Elizabeth scenes, which I was happy to see, but found strange after I discovered that they were getting rid of Elizabeth.

                          Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                          I did notice that, about the extreme lack of Rodney/Teyla scenes. It's a real shame, I think there could have been good scenes between them. They did have a little time in Daedalus Variations which I liked but there was hardly any scenes with them both over the course of 5 years. And I wish, I really really wish I never watched BS (heehee, that abbreviation never gets old ), but luckily a goldfish memory comes in very handy
                          Yes, Teyla and Rodney are so different and that I enjoyed their interactions during the few scenes they had together. Its unfortunate that SGA's writers weren't comfortable with mixing up the character interaction because that would have been a more effective way to keep the series fresh than the method they chose - changing characters.

                          Given your intense dislike of Rodney, I still can't believe that you subjected yourself to watching BS. But, then again, you did say that you watched all of Adromenda, so you're a glutton for punishment.

                          Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                          IKen Cuperus also wrote Submersion I wish they kept him He could do sort of darker eps without it looking ridiculous
                          So, Ken Cuperus wrote Common Ground, Submersion and The Ark (thanks for the reminder, Cazz!). Yes, he did show a talent for doing dark without looking like he was trying too hard. I wish they would have kept him for the duration of SGA.

                          Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                          Yep, see what could have been if they only got some new blood in the writing department. I think most of season 4 and 5 were just the same old same old
                          Although I enjoyed Season 4 much more than Season 5, I have to agree - SGA desperately needed new writers because it was sad that SGA's writers couldn't see how stale they had become.

                          Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                          I think it started off quite promising but as the season went on I did start to get a little frustrated with it (sound familiar? ) Is it ironic that my fave character so far in SGU is TJ? One of the one's who hardly gets used? I swear, I'm a glutton for punishment But if my worst fears come true, from the rumours i've heard, then that will be the final nail in the coffin where Stargate is concerned. I will still support SG-1 but as far as SGA and SGU will be concerned? That would be me finished Let's hope my fears don't happen. It's funny though, I haven't really missed SGU all that much since the break *shrugs*
                          I'll admit that I never expected to love SGU and only watched it to see if TPTB had learned anything worthwhile that could benefit the SGA movie. Unfortunately, I quickly saw some of the same issues that plagued the way they wrote SGA - mainly that they still don't seem to think through their ideas carefully enough before putting them on screen. As for TJ, I agree that she's the most promising of the female characters, but that could be because she's gotten the least amount of focus. Same with Greer, I find him the most interesting male character, but again, that could be because he hasn't gotten alot of focus yet.

                          Considering that Mallozzi has said that each character is going to get more focus soon, they may start sucking as hard as the characters that TPTB have focused their attention on.

                          Originally posted by Princess Awinita View Post
                          Wow; its been a while since I was last in this thread. (remembers when she stayed in this thread only for the longest time before finding other threads on gateworld), anyhow I wanted to pop in and say thusly two things have ciome to mind that some would want to ask "what was that scene about?"

                          Basically I've been bitten by the writing bug again and one of the stories was inspired by the recent Tim Burton movie Alice in Wonderland (AKA The Looking Glass War), in which case poor Teyla takes a trip down the rabbit hole.... a long trip..... (please do not ask )

                          Then as some of you know I have a Deviant Art account, on there i left a DA journal posting saying of a hope to publish bopok titled Legend of the Wu Tang Cat, with mentioning of a woman named Teyla being a friend of the main character (named after my own Silver Tabby AR!, who's a doll!!), If you guys want to read more or leave comments about the second of the two stories, please stop by here and pop a comment on my journal.

                          NOTE: you MUST be a member of DA to leave comments on journals or art. Also I have a few need to make art requests for a story written as a collab but with me as the editor-ff.net updater

                          Thanks guys

                          Awinita
                          Thanks, Awinita. I'm bad about signing up for things, but I will visit your DA journal.
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                            Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                            Yep, SGA's writers treated Teyla and Elizabeth as if they had girl cooties because they were rarely used to drive the storylines. And, in those rare instances where one of them was the episode focus, then the other was usually wallpapered. It was as if the writers were incapable of seeing female characters relate to each other without the male characters around.

                            In fact, after Season 1's Suspicion, I don't remember Teyla and Elizabeth having any scenes alone together until Season 3's Sunday. After that, there were a few more Teyla/Elizabeth scenes, which I was happy to see, but found strange after I discovered that they were getting rid of Elizabeth.
                            Oh yes, the females can't do anything without the males around And a female isn't complete without a man in her life Too much sarcasm?

                            And then Teyla looked so upset when Elizabeth was lost to them? Like, WHAT??? They hardly had any scenes together....And no I don't accept they spent time together off screen


                            Yes, Teyla and Rodney are so different and that I enjoyed their interactions during the few scenes they had together. Its unfortunate that SGA's writers weren't comfortable with mixing up the character interaction because that would have been a more effective way to keep the series fresh than the method they chose - changing characters.

                            Given your intense dislike of Rodney, I still can't believe that you subjected yourself to watching BS. But, then again, you did say that you watched all of Adromenda, so you're a glutton for punishment.
                            I liked their scenes in Daedalus Variations and Search and rescue, but then I developed an intense hatred of Rodney and now I can't watch it I put the full blame at the feet of TPTB for this.

                            Neither can I Yep I watched all of Andromeda, I wish I never wasted my time on that last season. It was beyond terrible I'm the biggest glutton for punishment ever


                            So, Ken Cuperus wrote Common Ground, Submersion and The Ark (thanks for the reminder, Cazz!). Yes, he did show a talent for doing dark without looking like he was trying too hard. I wish they would have kept him for the duration of SGA.
                            Yep I guess TPTB don't like writers who think outside the box and don't use the same two characters over and over again


                            Although I enjoyed Season 4 much more than Season 5, I have to agree - SGA desperately needed new writers because it was sad that SGA's writers couldn't see how stale they had become.
                            They became too comfortable, that was part of the problem. They needed someone to shake things up a bit.

                            I'll admit that I never expected to love SGU and only watched it to see if TPTB had learned anything worthwhile that could benefit the SGA movie. Unfortunately, I quickly saw some of the same issues that plagued the way they wrote SGA - mainly that they still don't seem to think through their ideas carefully enough before putting them on screen. As for TJ, I agree that she's the most promising of the female characters, but that could be because she's gotten the least amount of focus. Same with Greer, I find him the most interesting male character, but again, that could be because he hasn't gotten alot of focus yet.

                            Considering that Mallozzi has said that each character is going to get more focus soon, they may start sucking as hard as the characters that TPTB have focused their attention on.
                            Main issues like using some characters too much while others are hardly getting a look in? The geeks getting all the action? Yeah she is the most interesting female, maybe that's why she's getting so overlooked so far Seems to be a recurring thing I didn't like Greer at first but he's growing on me, I liked his scenes with TJ. I think TJ and Greer could develop a good friendship if given a chance but what's the chance of that happening

                            I don't trust JM, You saw what he said in regards to Teyla and......How wrong he was. So I don't listen to a word he says any more
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                              Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                              Well you know, the sonic screwdriver can do almost anything What? Ya know someone had to say it *snicker* *runs away*
                              Noooo. Come back, come back!!! LOL. You're right.


                              Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                              Oh good, so advil is kinda like Disprin?
                              Yep. But, it's ibuprofen. I think that Disprin here is Asprin. But, both drugs fall under the same grouping.


                              Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                              Well as for Gero I will say one word.....McKeller

                              I rest my case
                              Court is adjourned.

                              Originally posted by Linda06 View Post
                              You mean they could have screwed over the characters even more than they already did? Ooh that's a scary thought
                              Truly scary.

                              Cheers

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                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                UGGHHHHH!!!!!!! I had forgotten about this scene! This is why Daedalus Variations is the only Season 5 episode I can watch without getting annoyed at some point because all the other Season 5 episodes that I like have nasty little mindfields like the scene you listed above. So disappointing! ... The writers pulled the same crap in The Queen because there's a scene where Keller pretty much echos what Woolsey said above. Implying that Teyla was incapable of being an active participant in the events leading up to The Queen. Again... UGGHHHHH!!!!!!!
                                Yes. And, thank you for hitting the nail on the head there. That's exactly what they were, nasty little minefields. For me, there were only a couple that I can think of in season 4, but season 5 was just...not good. That's why it was hard to enjoy that season. Even the really good episodes would have something that was a bit off. I don't think that they consistently wrote well for any of the characters in seasons 4 and 5.


                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                I minute I saw that poll, I knew Teyla wouldn't place well, so, sadly no surprises there.

                                However, I'm so used to Teyla not getting any respect from SGA's writers (and therefore from some of SGA's fans) that I have no qualms about sharing how much I don't respect most of SGA's writers. So, no, I don't think that your lack of respect for these writers make you sound harsh. IMO, they didn't respect SGA or its fans, therefore, as an SGA fan, I have no reason to respect them.

                                The pathetic writing for Teyla is just one of many reasons why I don't respect this group of writers. For instance, SGA's writers had a nasty habit of changing their characters to fit their plots and even worse, they weren't above trying to manipulate the audience into liking the characters that they (the writers) loved - at the expense of the characters that they merely tolerated. For instance, according to the writers, Zelenka was a creepy little man that no one liked, which was a surprise to SGA's viewers because we never saw that on screen. I think they came up with that fantasy when they realized how popular Zelenka was and got tired of fans asking to see more of him instead of the writers' favorites.

                                They also pulled the same wierdness when they tried to claim that Sheppard was never Mensa material. To this day, that nasty little scene in First Contact, where Rodney and Daniel Jackson mocked Sheppard, bothers me because in addition to trying to dumb down Sheppard, I thought it was out of character for Rodney and Daniel to work together to mock him.
                                YES!!! I didn't like that, either. I remember watching the commentary for Quarantine and I think it was M Gero saying that Zelenka was creepy and no one liked him. I never got that from the show. I always saw him as the yin to Rodney's yang. He was the one that they deferred to when Rodney was promising the universe in going forward with what he wanted to do. He was the one that would remind Rodney when he was going to far and that he had too much confidence in himself. He was almost Rodney's safety net in that sense. I always liked Zelenka. I never saw him as creepy at all.

                                That scene with John and Rodney/Daniel (especially Daniel!) was another minefield. It was apparent that by this time in season 5, the writers had completely decided to dumb-down Sheppard from the smart and witty guy that he was when we met him, perhaps because that would somehow take away from Rodney's genius (???). I tell you, I don't like where the John character went those last 2 seasons, especially without any real exposition to explain it. However, him slowly losing much of his intellect is a hard thing to explain. That just didn't make any sense. Again, I think it was M Gero that said that all of the writers considered it a joke that Sheppard could be smart (???).

                                Um, that kind of takes me back to the same point that I have about Teyla. If Shep isn't smart enough to be MENSA material, then why is he the leader of the entire military (good problem solving skills, the ability to think fast and calculate quickly, and be great at strategy is required here) portion of the Atlantis Expedition? It's kind of like how they made Teyla dumbed-down wallpaper that should have been so much more for the leader of an entire civilization that was used to dealing with the Wraith. I think that these are more examples of why "greedy writing" doesn't tend to work well. When McKay just has to outshine everyone, it makes for a very unbelieveable and sad situation, even for McKay. In all of their trying to put him on a pedastal, it really kind of backfired on the entire show.

                                And, since when was Daniel the guy that would casually make fun of other people? That's not his nature at all. I'm going to have to stop now; thinking about how they screwed over these characters (McKay too) is just irritating.


                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                I agree that Rachel did an amazing job with the little that she was given and she's the main reason why Teyla is my favorite character. The fact that she was able to bring this character to life with such dismal writing is a miracle that I will always appreciate.
                                Yep. She's my favorite SG Woman. And, that really is a testament to Rachel. Without her, that character would have been nothing because the writing wasn't there. I mean, the other day, I forgot that she was in the Lifeline episode because the writing just wasn't consistently there for her. Poor Teyla.



                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                I must say that as much as I hate the final product of most of SGA's writers, they were good at creating interesting characters and an interesting premise with SGA. Unfortunately, thay lacked the will and drive to delve deeper than the broad outlines they created.
                                Now THAT was their talent. They could come up with the bare-bones idea, but they couldn't make it real very well, at least not well compared to the idea itself. Teyla is a great example of that.

                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                I agree. Can you imagine how good SGA could have been with writers like Jo Graham on board? At this point, Babylon 5 is my holy grail of what a sci-fi/fantasy series could be, but if SGA had the right kind of writers, IMO, it could have been right up there with Babylon 5.

                                Oh well, at least we have her books to look forward to.
                                Don't get me started on how GREAT SGA could have been. Wow. It could have been so much more awesome than it was!!! I mean, it's one of my favorite shows IN SPITE of a lot of the writing. If ALL of the writing was great, we'd have a Sci-Fi classic on our hands right now. Without a doubt. It's too bad that they missed that opportunity because it doesn't come often (if at all) for many writers.

                                I am definitely looking forward to the book(s).


                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                Yes, there were so many missed opportunities to explore non-standard character interactions. In addition to your excellent list - "Teyla/Zelenka, Teyla/Lorne, Teyla/John, Teyla/Ronon, Teyla/Carson, John/Ronon, John/Carson etc.", I had always wanted to see a Teyla/Elizabeth episode. Although I didn't hate Missing, it annoyed me that they did an episode with Teyla and Keller, but never did one with Teyla and Elizabeth.

                                And, I also found it interesting that for all of their Rodney-focus, they rarely had any Teyla/Rodney scenes. As much as I detested Brainstorm, I would have watched it if Rodney had asked Teyla to accompany him. Hell, I would have wanted BS if anyone other than Keller had joined him.
                                Like you and Linda, I really wished we could have seen Teyla working with all of those other people too. I would have liked to see her bond with Carson over both of them having Wraith DNA, and just in general. It would have been nice to have a Teyla/Elizabeth episode. I mean, we got McShep episodes, and McBeckett moments and at least one full episode (Duet). And, Ford had moments with McKay... Oh, I’m ... beginning to see a pattern here. Okay.

                                Well, I feel the same way about BS as you do. Missing as well. I remember thinking that if anyone else had been in that episode with Teyla (preferable Beckett), then it probably would have been one of my favorites of the season, instead of a reluctant least favorite. Seasons 4 and 5 didn’t have one episode that I could sit back and completely enjoy in them. Yes, there are a nice handful of episodes that I really liked a lot. But, season 3 was the last time I was able to sit back and just enjoy everything about an episode. That’s not to say that the first 3 seasons didn’t have episodes that I had some minor issues with. But, overall, to me they were better as a whole.

                                And, yes, Teyla and McKay would have been great too (BS would have been muuuuuch better with Teyla), as well as a real Teyla/John episode. I don’t think we really got much of that.

                                Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                                Interesting, I didn't realize that Instinct had been written by freelancers - and female freelancers at that. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised because one of my favorite Season 3 episodes, Common Ground, was written by a freelancer, Ken Cuperus. That episode had the best Sheppard/Todd interactions and I loved that Todd's restoration of Sheppard was treated as a very rare gift. Unfortunately, IMO, the regular SGA writers misused this gift of life in later episodes. As a result, its specialness was diminished.

                                Yes, Instinct, had some nice Teyla scenes so that should have clued me in that it wasn't written by the usual SGA writers.

                                I’m glad that you and Linda mentioned this. You know, I just realized something. Instinct was a great episode that showed Teyla’s ability to think for herself, and it was an episode written by freelancers. Submersion is the last episode that I recall where Teyla had any growth as a character. She had been getting used to her Wraith connection up until then, but she hadn’t mastered it until Submersion when she tricked a Wraith queen with it. And, as you mentioned, the episode was written by a freelancer.

                                And, I agree about Common Ground. Great Ep. But, the gift of life just became somewhat of a joke ( and gimmick and/or cheap trick) that was used by the time we got to EATG. In Common Ground it was a gift that was used only for specific reasons, and seemed to be something of a secret among the Wraith that Todd let Sheppard in on. It’s too bad Ken didn’t write anymore episodes after season 3. Too bad indeed.

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