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The SGC Staff (or, lack there of) [Spoilers through Season 8]

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    The SGC Staff (or, lack there of) [Spoilers through Season 8]

    First, let me state that I do understand issues of paying for actors, speaking roles, and RDA's time. However...

    ... is anyone else particularly bugged by the way that Stargate Command seems to be staffed? Or the way that the writers seem to think that it's okay to take one character with one general skill set and give them a completely different one for the sake of an episode to avoid casting another actor?

    This comes in a few catagories for me:

    A) People Who Don't Exist, But Should. In any military command (small c or big C), there is an operations staff. A deputy commander, a security specialist, an administrative adjutant, ect. In every military command that is, except the SGC. Who is the second in command of the SGC? Who is in charge if Jack is killed? Who is in charge of security? Where the heck is Jack's aide de camp--so that a general's valuable time isn't wasted handling things and time managing items that a captain should be doing for him? Why isn't there a duty officer so the general doesn't have to work two days straight with almost no sleep?

    Before you say Walter... from what I can tell Walter is the senior enlisted soldier (haven't seen his chevron's lately, but I believe he's somewhere in the range to be). That position has completely different responsibilities than being a general's aide.

    The lack of a planning staff or a deputy almost bothers me more, because that demonstrates a very bad weekness should the SGC have a catastrophic disaster in which the general is killed. Now perhaps Jack is using SG1 in this capacity, but that still doesn't explain who Hammond used to do these jobs.

    B) People Doing Jobs that Others Should Be Doing. The military is full of specialists. People who spend their careers getting very good at their jobs. People who handle base security. People who interrogate prisoners. People who are weapons specialists. Now as much as we all dearly love SG1, they are not intelligence specialists. They are not trained interrogators, any one of them.

    While it may be convient or nessecarily for TPTB to use an actor they have on hand to perform a certain task, it's not particularly logical within the context of the story. The most blatent example recently has been the use of Daniel as a security and intelligence specialist in End Game. I am not arguing that Daniel is not now a competant field operator, but he is not a security or intelligence expert. He is also not an air force officer, and questioning air force enlisted men should be done by officers for no other reason than because of clear chains of command.

    The situation with the Area 51 scientist was much more out of character and unreasonable because the SGC, as far as my understand, has no authority over people arrested on earth. It doesn't matter if the Stargate is missing. That's a jouristictional issue. While it isn't unreasonable to say that Daniel might have been present for the conversation, but the idea that he would be the lead interrogator, or even that he would have the authority to send the guards out of the room is utterly rediculous.

    That's what the justice department is for. That's what military intelligence is for. That's what the NID is for. That is not what a civilian archeologist at the SGC is for.

    C) People With Unrealistic Skill Sets. "Action Jackson." "Super Sam." "What the heck is Dr. Lee a doctor of?" No one is saying tht they don't like Doctors Jackson, Carter, and Lee, but let's think about this for a little bit.

    Daniel is an egyptologist. Daniel is a linguist. Daniel is an anothropoligst. Daniel is a historian. Daniel is a special operative. All fine. I do wonder about his incredibly broad skill set within the humanities, but you know what, I can accept that.

    Daniel on earth based SWAT raids? Can't he stay behind and work on another avenue of attacking the problem? Is the best use of that resource to be toting a gun when there are twenty other guns there already?

    Sam is an air force officer, an academy graduate, and an astrophysicist. I can, like Daniel, accept the broad range of knowledge she seems to have of physics, chemistry, astronomy. Biology? Why is she working with the docs in labs? I can accept her knowledge of Goa'uld space ships from her experiance with Jolinar (in Double Jeopardy she has to tell RoboSam how to do something, which implies that it's not a skill that Sam herself had before Jolinar). But ancient weapons systems? Reverse engineering?

    And while i'm on the subject of Sam, let's add the question of how Sam and Jack are pilots when neither wears wings on their uniform that say so. They've both flew F-302s at the very least. I doubt you just climb into experimental fighters without having some piloting experiance.

    And good old Dr. Lee... Let's see, off the top of my head I'm wondering if he is a geologist (Crystal Skull), botantist/ecologist (Prodigy/Zero Hour), or a physicist (Zero Hour). And something tells me I've even missed a skill set somewhere in there of Dr. Lee's.

    Whatever happened to "Jack of all trades, Master of none?"



    #2
    *Any* skills that Daniel and Sam had prior to their assignment to the SGC I can accept. Yes it'd be unrealistic for any random person to be as multilingual and multi-skilled in humanities, or to have as much flight time and combat time as Sam and be one of the world's top theoretical physicists and still have had time to get the gate rigged up from scratch. But the point about Sam and Daniel is that they aren't random, they were put there specifically because they were the creme de la creme of their fields.

    I'd totally forgotten that Sam had a background in genetics (Bane). Thanks for pointing that out, it makes the stuff she does in Legacy and Evolution slightly less of a stretch. It's pretty far-fetched, that in addition to the above she's a genetics whizz too; but perhaps she took a year to peruse genetics as an option before deciding that Physics did more for her. (Her dream was NASA, so she might have had a view to working on the effect of space-travel on DNA or something?). Anyway, what I said about it being more believable if it comes from before she reached the SGC stands, so it's far easier to cope with than the alien tech stuff in Forsaken.

    Fixing the ship in Forsaken *really* bugged me. That's the only SuperSam moment that I just can't get over no matter how I look at it. Off I go into a corner now to rant a bit...

    Madeleine

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      #3
      Originally posted by Madeleine_W
      I'd totally forgotten that Sam had a background in genetics (Bane). Thanks for pointing that out, it makes the stuff she does in Legacy and Evolution slightly less of a stretch.
      I still think that's a pretty big stretch, especially with the autopsy in Evolution. Genetics and pathology aren't all that connected.

      Originally posted by Madeleine_W
      Fixing the ship in Forsaken *really* bugged me. That's the only SuperSam moment that I just can't get over no matter how I look at it. Off I go into a corner now to rant a bit...
      Haven't seen that episode yet, so can't comment on it, but I understand the ranting part. Sometimes the show, as much as we love it, can bring out the ranting in all of us.

      I really don't have a problem with Sam and Daniel being uberintelligent in their respective sciences, both hard and soft. The writers need them to be, and even though their knowledge is pretty unrealistic, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that I can buy.

      I do have a harder time when they can do everything or anything and they're always right. Sometimes it's more egregious than others. Sam unfortunately bears the brunt of it most often, simply because it's easy to have her to come up with a brilliant technological solution that no one else thought of. Just have her spout technobabble for a little bit until the audience's eyes glaze over, and move ahead with the story. Believable that she can do it? Probably not, but it works with the plot.

      Daniel, just because his knowledge isn't of the technological kind, doesn't tend to be able to fix every device known to earth and all other planets, or come up with complex mathematical theories in twenty seconds, so he doesn't get the "Super" label as often. I really didn't have a problem with his role in Endgame, but I know others did, and I respect those opinions. There have been other times, however, when I've scratched my head and wondered, "He knows that? Oooookay. Incredibly smart guy."

      It's a tough line to balance. We want these scifi/mythological stories that necessitate certain types of knowledge in order for the plot to work. We also want to see SG-1 members front and center as much as possible, and really don't want guest stars taking a ton of screentime. Sam or Daniel are the obvious characters to give the needed exposition/information to the audience, and their knowledge and abilities seem to grow every year.

      I've got to give the writers credit though, for the most part they do a pretty good job. When it doesn't work though, it's glaring, and tends to pull me right out of the episode.

      Comment


        #4
        Well, Fischy, Dr. Lee was working with alien tech in "Paradise Lost" and "Avatar." I suppose it could indicate that he's a physicist, but it doesn't seem that way to me.
        Rocky

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          #5
          I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to pay another actor. I think major storylines are always given to the main characters, or if not a main character, at least someone who could conceivably end up in the main cast at some point. Because they're the characters people care about. You might get the occasional scene with tetriary characters (Walter) by themselves or with each other, but for the most part it'll be SG1 taking on the big load. I think that's true of most shows.


          He is also not an air force officer, and questioning air force enlisted men should be done by officers for no other reason than because of clear chains of command.
          Okay, lets say Jack appointed Daniel to do this (which was always my assumption of the episode). Would there be anyone that Walter could report Jack to for not following protocal, if he had felt that Daniel questioning him violated rules? I mean, hypothetically, someone he could report Jack to for allowing Daniel to do it. Could Jack have done it, or would it have been impossible?

          I admit, I'm pretty much like Jack (and Daniel) when it comes to Sam's skills. The autopsy/whatever in Evolution was a stretch. For me, SuperSam is more that she hardly ever makes mistakes, and when she does, they aren't seen as mistakes.

          or come up with complex mathematical theories in twenty seconds
          He also didn't understand the importance of zero in an episode (where he and Sam were with Jacob -Tangent, I think, maybe). Which, I've been told is very unrealistic for an archeologist not to know.

          Daniel on earth based SWAT raids? Can't he stay behind and work on another avenue of attacking the problem? Is the best use of that resource to be toting a gun when there are twenty other guns there already?
          For that matter, is it realistic for Sam to be on an earth based SWAT raid? Yes, I know, she's military, but is that a default for all activities involving a gun? The SGC is full of military people who could have been part of raids, and also captains of other teams to fill in that aspect. Also, does being in the military automatically give you SWAT training? Seriously asking, since I have no knowledge of either. And, beyond just being military, Sam also has special skills that sometimes I think would make more sense for her to be woorking at the SGC as far as earthbound threats go. I don't mean shove her in a lab all the time, but isn't her mind a more valuable resource than her ability to tote a gun when there are twenty other guns around?

          How realistic is it for any of SG1 to be doing things like that? I would think if they were going for strict realism, SG1 wouldn't be taking part in earth based raids like that. I mean, these are the ones who save the world on a regular basis. Would they (um, not they as in SG1, but they as in whoever tells SG1 to go on a mission -Jack, for now, I suppose) really risk them on earth bound raids when their skills and experience would more than likely be needed to fight bigger enemies?

          But, like I said, main characters get major stories. And, if the big story has a raid or an interrogation, they aren't going to trot out Joe Schmoe military, or Joe Schmoe MD, or Joe Schmoe Diplomat. (Or, Jane Schmoe, just to be PC ) Working with a main character, yeah, but always in a small capacity. And, I don't mind, because the worst episodes for me are the ones where some guest star seems to take over and a member of SG1 is relagated to a minor part in the show.

          And, maybe because I don't have any military ties or associations, I can suspend disbelief more readily.
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            #6
            On the military swat note, it is indeed unrealistic for Sam to be doing things like that. All military basic training will include weapons handling, but when you go yourindividual way after that, unless you have chosen a specific career in combat, it is highly unlikely that you will ever actually use combat or a gun again.

            How the hell Jack can be spec ops AND a pilot, just boggles my mind, thats THE big plot hole for me...


            "Five Rounds Rapid"

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              #7
              Wow. This is a really interesting thread! A lot of really good points have been made, too...

              Anyway, I can't say that I noticed much of this "Action Jackson"-"SuperSam" syndrome before I started joining the forums. To be honest, some of the things that come out of their mouths goes so far above my head, it's not even funny.

              I must say, however, that I was confused about Sam's involvement in "Evolution." I mean I love Sam, of course, but I thought that was a perfectly good waste of a potential Janet Moment. Oh well. Ho hum.

              I do agree with what someone else said about Sam and Daniel being at the tops of their respective fields, but it does seem like this show thinks that "physicist" and "linguist" encompass the entire fields of science, whether it's biology or political science. For me, it doesn't change much, because I knew going in that Sam and Daniel would play Exposition/Plotline Poster Kids for the show, but still... Y'all are very right to be annoyed.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett
                On the military swat note, it is indeed unrealistic for Sam to be doing things like that.
                I agree, but this is the way most TV shows do things. They know that we want to see the main characters, so that's what they give us. I was actually stunned when in Endgame Sam and Daniel didn't lead the SWAT team. I guess the writers thought that that would be pushing suspension of disbelief a bit too far. Wish they would have these moments of sanity more often but that's besides the point.

                I usually don't mind the main characters being somewhat versatile but Stargate can take things a bit too far.

                As for the command structure at the SGC, we all know that that is a matter of budget. Of course O'Neill (and Hammond before him) should have a staff, it's stupid not to, but it's just not realistic on a TV budget.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jonisa
                  I do have a harder time when they can do everything or anything and they're always right. Sometimes it's more egregious than others. Sam unfortunately bears the brunt of it most often, simply because it's easy to have her to come up with a brilliant technological solution that no one else thought of. Just have her spout technobabble for a little bit until the audience's eyes glaze over, and move ahead with the story. Believable that she can do it? Probably not, but it works with the plot.
                  Actually, have you noticed how often Sam has a line like "It should have worked", "This shouldn't be happening" or "This doesn't make any sense"? It really bugs me, to be honest. She's working with technology that's years ahead of her knowledge base. She shouldn't assume that all her techniques will work, I don't care how often she's right.

                  Mel
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by ibwolf
                    I agree, but this is the way most TV shows do things. They know that we want to see the main characters, so that's what they give us. I was actually stunned when in Endgame Sam and Daniel didn't lead the SWAT team. I guess the writers thought that that would be pushing suspension of disbelief a bit too far. Wish they would have these moments of sanity more often but that's besides the point.

                    I usually don't mind the main characters being somewhat versatile but Stargate can take things a bit too far.

                    As for the command structure at the SGC, we all know that that is a matter of budget. Of course O'Neill (and Hammond before him) should have a staff, it's stupid not to, but it's just not realistic on a TV budget.
                    Hammond probably had a normal staff. We just didn't see them because the show focused of the offworld exploits of Sg-1. Now, however, O'neill's staff is rumored to be comprised completely of Ri'tu so we will never see them!

                    "We'll keep the light on for you."

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ancient 1
                      Hammond probably had a normal staff. We just didn't see them because the show focused of the offworld exploits of Sg-1. Now, however, O'neill's staff is rumored to be comprised completely of Ri'tu so we will never see them!
                      How could I have not tought of that! Besides, all those legs make them so they can move faster


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                        #12
                        I think it's a continuity (at the expence of reality) thing. The supporting cast and recurring characters, like Dr. Lee, Walter, Rothman and so on. The familiar faces in the background rahter than bringing a different guest star for a different specialist every week.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Daniel and Sam don't waste their time watching TV or posting on message boards so they've had a chance to learn a lot...

                          By the by, my mom once worked for someone who was very much like McKay. He knew almost everything about... almost everything. He had an advanced degree in bio-somethingorother, was owner of a successful business that he took public, built some custom database software for his company, read and spoke about a dozen languages, and god knows what else.

                          In truth, I don't disagree with this thread. Daniel doing interrogation, yeah sure. I'm just saying there really are some extraordinarly brilliant people out there, real life Sam and Daniels. It's our education system that teaches us to specialize more and more in one area as we advance, not any sort of limit on what human beings can learn. Of course, it helps to have an IQ of 200
                          Fitness Buddies

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                            #14
                            I'm pretty sure Siler is the senior enlisted, but I can't actually remember if there's any reason to believe that Siler is a Master Sergeant and Walter a Tech Sergeant or if that's my assumption from way back. Of course, Wally could be a Chief Tech Sergeant by now.

                            Anyway, the bizarre staffing of the SGC is clearly due to the fact that it is run not by the USAF but by the Tafia - the Welsh organised crime syndicate. You note that Walter Davis has reverted to his birth name 'Harriman' now he's finished breaking in Major Paul as the new 'Davis'; the Tafia equivalent of a 'Don' (Don/Davis...geddit! I just made that up right now; you can tell, can't you?)
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