The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

I haven't been here in a while..but I suppose I *should* drop by now and then..

No, you really don't have to............

[epg20]

Well, in context of recent discussion, I'm guessing that you are saying an abortion is a form of defense for women, which is most certainly is not, aside from risks to the mother's life situations. An abortion is an attack against the human life that is at present residing within her, not a defense.

ok, I am just going to say this once:

my city has ben on the FRONT LINE in the abortion debate, look it up if you are that interested, I think a lot of people think that a woman go to a clinic for an abortion like she is going to get a hair cut, or get a massage, she doesn't, it isn't an easy thing that she does, she agonizes over it, for days and weeks maybe, not a moment goes by, when she finds out that she is pregnant, that she weighs the pros and cons of having a baby, can I afford it, what about the father, will he help with the baby, what will my family think, can I really do this to a child, him/her in to this world... and so many questions that would cause the server to crash, all of this takes place in her head, in the amount of time that it takes to blink an eye, an abortion is not easy, ON ANY BODY.

[Gatefan1976]

ok, I am just going to say this once:

my city has ben on the FRONT LINE in the abortion debate, look it up if you are that interested, I think a lot of people think that a woman go to a clinic for an abortion like she is going to get a hair cut, or get a massage, she doesn't, it isn't an easy thing that she does, she agonizes over it, for days and weeks maybe, not a moment goes by, when she finds out that she is pregnant, that she weighs the pros and cons of having a baby, can I afford it, what about the father, will he help with the baby, what will my family think, can I really do this to a child, him/her in to this world... and so many questions that would cause the server to crash, all of this takes place in her head, in the amount of time that it takes to blink an eye, an abortion is not easy, ON ANY BODY.

EPG, you are wasting your words
(I mean, spam being better than bacon is one thing, but on this issue and this.......... individual, you really are wasting your time)
This is what you are going up against:

[garhkal]

Vetting does not -stop- anyone cold, it slows down the process, trump wants a BAN. If you cannot work out the difference between going slow and stopping, I question your thought processes

He wants a 120 day halt, so proper vetting proceedures can be put into place. NOT A TOTAL BAN.. If YOU CAN'T see that and think a temporary halt is a ban, then it seems nothing i say will change YOUR MIND..

Listen to what I said, -NO ATTACKS ON US SOIL-, have you got it yet?

So ONLY attacks on US soil should count? Wow..

Miscarriage.

Interesting. First time i have heard it called THAT..
But in that case, no, a woman who has a miscarrage, which often can be caused by things she has no control over (like someone punching her, knocking her over, auto accidents and the like), should NOT put her under charges.

ALSO its rather hammy that not even 2 hours after the trial ended, he managed to crank out the 43 page document detailing his reasonings. AND RIGHT AFTER Obama made a visit TO Hawaii..

Glad me and annoyed are not the only ones that feel that way..

Pay attention to that last part, "when he or she finds that their entry to the U.S. would be detrimental to the interests of the country." He has to prove that he has in fact found their entry to be detrimental. And it is the Courts' constitutional job to interpret that law and decide if Trump is abiding by it or using it as a smoke screen to fulfill his Muslim ban promise.

So like i said, they are using his campaign speech "to ban them" as their logic to rule the law bad, not the law itself.

If only we had the most sophisticated intellegence community with the most advanced technologies at our disposal...

And how many times has someone we were watching, 'slipped through the cracks/disappeared, and gone on to do an attack, or "WE vetted him and found no flags", but he still went on to do an attack? Kinda puts paid imo to 'the most sophisticated intelligence community' tag, don't ya think?

The countries responsible for 9/11 seem conspicuously absent. Almost as if Trump had business interests in at least one of them...

And that's something i critiqued trump for.. WHY Is saudi not on that list..

Can you quote the part of the constitution that gives the president that power to begin with?

Article II of the Constitution confers authority on the president, the Supreme Court has said, to conduct foreign affairs and address immigration.


Now onto a related story.. Fresno state uni, was holding a job fair, and one of the booths at said fair was INS.. And apparently a # of students (illegal aliens) got offended, and had some groups organize protests on their behalf..
One of those who organized the protest said

“We don’t think that Border Patrol or ICE or DHS or anyone from that agency should participate in the career fair,” said organizer Luis Ojeda, who is a 2012 Fresno State graduate. “It stands against the values that Fresno State claims to hold.”

SO what exactly are fresno state's values? That the law doesn't matter??

[Gatefan1976]

He wants a 120 day halt, so proper vetting proceedures can be put into place. NOT A TOTAL BAN.. If YOU CAN'T see that and think a temporary halt is a ban, then it seems nothing i say will change YOUR MIND..

You -already-have a 732 day vetting process, what more "procedures" do you want?
Oh, and YES trump said TOTAL BAN. Did he use quotation marks on the campaign trail, or did he say "total shutdown"?
You want to change my mind, try not being so easy to shoot down.

So ONLY attacks on US soil should count? Wow..

Errr....... that's the law?

Interesting. First time i have heard it called THAT..
But in that case, no, a woman who has a miscarrage, which often can be caused by things she has no control over (like someone punching her, knocking her over, auto accidents and the like), should NOT put her under charges.

Why not, she aborted an innocent life, right?

Glad me and annoyed are not the only ones that feel that way..

you don't even recognise a mis-quote.........

So like i said, they are using his campaign speech "to ban them" as their logic to rule the law bad, not the law itself.

You do understand that intent is a major function of law, right?

And how many times has someone we were watching, 'slipped through the cracks/disappeared, and gone on to do an attack, or "WE vetted him and found no flags", but he still went on to do an attack? Kinda puts paid imo to 'the most sophisticated intelligence community' tag, don't ya think?

Once that we know of in the US, and that one time prompted the harsh vetting procedures you now have.
But of course, nothing happened..........

And that's something i critiqued trump for.. WHY Is saudi not on that list..

Err, he has business dealings there?
Errr, the US has business dealings there?

You really think he gives to hard turds about you??
ROFLMFAO!!!
You just made my day, and it was going pretty bad.

Article II of the Constitution confers authority on the president, the Supreme Court has said, to conduct foreign affairs and address immigration.

The SUPREME COURT, NOT THE CONSTITUTION!!!

Now onto a related story.. Fresno state uni, was holding a job fair, and one of the booths at said fair was INS.. And apparently a # of students (illegal aliens) got offended, and had some groups organize protests on their behalf..
One of those who organized the protest said


SO what exactly are fresno state's values? That the law doesn't matter??

They are against jack booted thugs?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

Interesting. First time i have heard it called THAT..
But in that case, no, a woman who has a miscarrage, which often can be caused by things she has no control over (like someone punching her, knocking her over, auto accidents and the like), should NOT put her under charges.

Right... That's the only way it happens.. there has to be some external trauma

You know sometimes it just happens, right? No reason. No blunt force impact. Just the foetus detaches all on it's own, just because. And it happens far more often than you realise.

If a woman goes into the hospital and says it just happened, would you believe her? She was just watching TV, got up to get a snack, and suddenly blood everywhere!! How would you be able to tell if she is telling the truth?

Would you believe it "just happened"?

[Annoyed]

Now, on a lighter note..


I *knew* that (saw it a few years ago, when you were 32), which is why I said I was 20+ years older.. Older than 56, thus over half century old.. It's downhill from there, and once I reached 50, I stopped counting.

Get any significant injuries now, and it's just another one to add to the permanently achy list.
Snowstorms don't help. Especially, snow accumulations over 23 inches in one day's dumping! I've dealt with storms that deep before, but once the older years start settling in, it takes more than hot chocolate to soothe those aches and pains.
This last 2-footer (with snow-drifts) was 2 feet too much. Need to move where snow isn't too deep, or win the mega-lottery (fat-chance on the lottery). So, there goes my wishful Alaska and Antarctica dome home abodes..

Amen to that. It gets to a point where getting older just plain sucks. So far, its better than not getting older, but I'm sure the day will come when that equation balances out the other way.

[Annoyed]

ok, I am just going to say this once:

my city has ben on the FRONT LINE in the abortion debate, look it up if you are that interested, I think a lot of people think that a woman go to a clinic for an abortion like she is going to get a hair cut, or get a massage, she doesn't, it isn't an easy thing that she does, she agonizes over it, for days and weeks maybe, not a moment goes by, when she finds out that she is pregnant, that she weighs the pros and cons of having a baby, can I afford it, what about the father, will he help with the baby, what will my family think, can I really do this to a child, him/her in to this world... and so many questions that would cause the server to crash, all of this takes place in her head, in the amount of time that it takes to blink an eye, an abortion is not easy, ON ANY BODY.

And how many of those questions should have been asked BEFORE they take their pants off?

[Annoyed]

Glad me and annoyed are not the only ones that feel that way..

What are you saying I think about something?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

And how many of those questions should have been asked BEFORE they take their pants off?

So you're saying that if someone doesn't want kids they must never have sex, ever! They must live their entire lives as celibate monks. Even if they're living with a partner and/or financially stable?

I know you've made this "keep your pants on" thing into your main argument.. But shouldn't you have gone with something not so easily defeated by simple logic?

Have you considered "it makes your (Annoyed's) god sad"?

Or maybe "I'm (Annoyed) envious of you young people doing things I missed out on, now I'm an angry old man and want to stop you having fun!"

[Annoyed]

So you're saying that if someone doesn't want kids they must never have sex, ever! They must live their entire lives as celibate monks. Even if they're living with a partner and/or financially stable?

I know you've made this "keep your pants on" thing into your main argument.. But shouldn't you have gone with something not so easily defeated by simple logic?

Have you considered "it makes your (Annoyed's) god sad"?

Or maybe "I'm (Annoyed) envious of you young people doing things I missed out on, now I'm an angry old man and want to stop you having fun!"

* ??? Must have caught you mid-edit.

How about these questions:

when she finds out that she is pregnant, that she weighs the pros and cons of having a baby, can I afford it, what about the father, will he help with the baby,

Should be thought about in advance, eh?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

What are you saying I think about something?

He's saying you're as angry and crazy as he is.

'Great minds think alike, but fools rarely differ' kind of thing..

[Falcon Horus]

Well, in context of recent discussion, I'm guessing that you are saying an abortion is a form of defense for women, which is most certainly is not, aside from risks to the mother's life situations. An abortion is an attack against the human life that is at present residing within her, not a defense.

No, not a defense -- a choice.

Much like it is a choice by society to have a death penalty in it's punishment system.
The law of the land once made the choice to put the penalty of death on certain crimes, and long sentences on others (or short sentences).

My point is that you are giving more rights to society to choose that option while you are taking it away from a woman. You are denying her the choice to terminate her pregnancy.

And perhaps you should read the short stories I posted to know that black and white have no space in the choice to abort or not to abort. There's so much grey in there, black and white literally got lost.

*waves independent card*
*is alone*

I don't think you're alone.

one day the US could even end up worse than China

I was actually refering to "digging a hole for yourself" -- therefore Annoyed was in my opinion halfway to China already.

Not to be taken literally

At least we will never be Belgium. We won't let other countries push around like the Dutch. Seriously FH, the Dutch?

We pushed the Dutch away, unless that's not what you meant.

Read back and tell me you honestly think that none of the "Liberals" have posted facts, such as links to scientific studies, articles, and other fact type things versus your "In my opinion" or general "feels".

I'm clearly not a liberal.

And how was "his wanting increased vetting" any different from what trump wants? OR Is it yet again, cause of his campaign speches where he said "ban them all"?

The vetting process in the USA is currently spread across a period which lasts 18 to 24 months.

Lets see. Libya - ATTACKED A US Consulate, killing the ambassador.

Is this the Benghazi attack?

What was the lead-in for that incident?
What spurred those men to attack the Embassy?

According to an early CIA assessment it was because of general protest in neighboring countries, but that turned out to be wrong when it turned out to be just a spur-of-the-moment attack. No planning went into it.

Much like the man at Orly this week -- who screwed up and then decided to go all the way. No planning, just spur-of-the-moment. Of course, he was the only one who died without any other casualties, except for the police officer who shot at earlier with a pellet gun (that had to bite).

Somalia - took over SEVERAL US Ships for hostages.

Somali pirates took the ships and hostages.
Nothing to do with the country as a whole.

Iran - took over US patrol craft and took them BACK TO THEIR home port as prisoners.

They took the vessels in custody -- they might have been too close to Iranian waters. Nobody likes foreign navy ships snooping in their waters without express permission.

Nothing happened to the crew. It did create a diplomatic crisis but when don't these things create diplomatic troubles.

Do those not count?

Libya was not planned. Pirates were responsible in Somalian waters (international or otherwise) and Iran felt the navy boats were too close to their waters.

No terrorism to speak of.

And how the hell can someone IDENTIFY a member of that order, without profiling?

That's what your 2-year vetting process is for.

Do you know what the process is?

I drink Hawaiian Punch, NOT coolaid. The sugar in the Punch knocks you out into la-la sleepy land..

To be honest, I have no idea what this coolaid is, which is always referred to.

I assume, it must be something sweet, yes. But is it a soda?

He wants a 120 day halt, so proper vetting proceedures can be put into place. NOT A TOTAL BAN.. If YOU CAN'T see that and think a temporary halt is a ban, then it seems nothing i say will change YOUR MIND.

He called for a muslim ban during his campaign. Guiliani called it a muslim ban after EO nr 1.
Ryan said at some point that a "muslim ban" wouldn't be a good idea. Heck, even Pency tweeted about it.

And your current vetting process is 18 to 24 months.

Glad me and annoyed are not the only ones that feel that way.

Considering the line is yours, I think Tood simply forgot to erase that part of your quote.

And how many times has someone we were watching, 'slipped through the cracks/disappeared, and gone on to do an attack, or "WE vetted him and found no flags", but he still went on to do an attack? Kinda puts paid imo to 'the most sophisticated intelligence community' tag, don't ya think?

I hear more often than not, those intelligence committees aren't properly working together when it happens.

But hindsight is always 20/20.

[Falcon Horus]

And how many of those questions should have been asked BEFORE they take their pants off?

Okay folks, it's official -- from now on, partners can't have sex unless they really want children.

Same-sex sex is going to spike!

[Annoyed]

Okay folks, it's official -- from now on, partners can't have sex unless they really want children.

Same-sex sex is going to spike!

No, partners can use birth control to minimize the chances, but there will always be a chance of a pregnancy unless some permanent type of control is in use. So it's a good idea to be in a suitable situation just in case.

But responsible behavior is just too much to expect, isn't it? Much easier to just kill the infant that results.