The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

Easy, just watch Trump's new racist ad.

And what "racist" ad is that? Or do you consider controlling illegal immigration racist?

[Chaka-Z0]

And what "racist" ad is that? Or do you consider controlling illegal immigration racist?

This ad

Controlling illegal immigration? They are literally portraying immigrants as criminals and killers using a nutjob immigrant. I don't see any honest message in that ad.

Why not make an ad about Americans and show a few clips of Charles Manson? Because that's exactly the same thing.

[LtColCarter]

This ad

Controlling illegal immigration? They are literally portraying immigrants as criminals and killers using a nutjob immigrant. I don't see any honest message in that ad.

Why not make an ad about Americans and show a few clips of Charles Manson? Because that's exactly the same thing.

Mango Mussolini said that immigrants (I think specifically Mexicans) were rapists when he was on the election trail back in 2016...so this shouldn't surprise you. They are using xenophobic fear tactics.

[Annoyed]

I don't have a twitter account, so I never saw that. I thought you were referring to some campaign advert.

But yeah, that's not a good point for him to make, because as you point out, you could just as well cite one of our domestic nut jobs.

[Chaka-Z0]

Not only for ''him'', Trump didn't make the video. He shared it on his Twitter, and so did a bunch of his cronies publicly endorsing that video.

You can tell Replicants are all getting boners talking about it and I'm sure nationalists, including white supremacists that are implicitly supported by POTUS, are drooling over the prospect of having a xenophobe leader.

[Annoyed]

Ok, here's a theoretical compromise, I'm just wondering if you folks who support unfettered illegal immigration would support it.

Ideally, for me, we stop every single illegal from coming into the country, by any means necessary.

Suppose I and others who feel as I do propose a compromise. We relent on refugees and such, but change the laws so that unless you're legally in the country; applied for entry and were approved, came in the front door and all that, there is no eligibility whatsoever for any form of social service benefits of any kind. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Agree or disagree ?

[SoulReaver]

Ideally, for me, we stop every single illegal from coming into the country, by any means necessary.

so you stop illegals from coming to your country
in other words by definition they're not yet in your country to begin with
in other words they're not illegals since they're still in their own country
in other words what are you complaining about :|

[Chaka-Z0]

Ok, here's a theoretical compromise, I'm just wondering if you folks who support unfettered illegal immigration would support it.

Ideally, for me, we stop every single illegal from coming into the country, by any means necessary.

Suppose I and others who feel as I do propose a compromise. We relent on refugees and such, but change the laws so that unless you're legally in the country; applied for entry and were approved, came in the front door and all that, there is no eligibility whatsoever for any form of social service benefits of any kind. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Agree or disagree ?

I can agree that illegal immigrants are not wanted by any countries, obviously, they're illegal for a reason. The Geneva convention is imo, the best compromise and btw by no means does that translate into accepting wave of millions of refugees. The US actually signed the '67 convention, but Congress blocked it so it is not in effect in the US as I'm sure you are well aware already.

Also any refugee that succeeds in settling foot on Canadian land is considered a refugee, but by no means again does that mean that he/she will stay there. If no valid reason is given backed with official paperwork, away they go. But usually if you go through all the trouble of crossing the ocean and leaving your family behind that's because you got a damn good reason to go wouldn't you agree?

Remember a few months back when a bunch of immigrants left the US to go to Canada? In my province alone I think we got about 400 ''american refugees'' (I still find that term laughable to this day). Well about 90% of them are now being extradited / returned, or will be in the months to come. Why? Because they're not refugees. Thanks come again (and sorry).

What I think is wrong in all that saga is REMOVING rights from people that are already there. What if I told you out of the blue that you're going to be banned from your own country, where you were born, how would you like that? You've never known your country of origin but you got to go back there because you don't belong here.

Does that make any sense to you? What exactly is an American but someone that was born in the US or immigrated legally? But, the most aberrant thing in all this fake crisis, I say fake because it is an invention from the right to score electoral points, is that the anti-immigration stance has become a racist and xenophobic one retweeted by your own POTUS, and this you cannot deny. If you see your boss smoking a cigar at work, well you probably think you can too. I am telling you we should expect more shootings like Pittsburgh, because your POTUS is fueling the hate train towards immigrants.

[Annoyed]

What I think is wrong in all that saga is REMOVING rights from people that are already there. What if I told you out of the blue that you're going to be banned from your own country, where you were born, how would you like that? You've never known your country of origin but you got to go back there because you don't belong here.

How can you remove rights that never existed? They are here illegally. They don't have a right to be here or stay here. Never had it to begin with. The only difference is that nowdays, a significant number of people who now have a voice in govt. want to enforce the law, rather than ignore it.

Your comparison to myself is absurd at best. I am, and have always been a citizen of this country, as were both of my parents, and their ancestors came in through the front door, Ellis island, following the legal immigration and naturalization process. How is that in any way comparable to people who sneak into the country illegally?

Does that make any sense to you? What exactly is an American but someone that was born in the US or immigrated legally? But, the most aberrant thing in all this fake crisis, I say fake because it is an invention from the right to score electoral points, is that the anti-immigration stance has become a racist and xenophobic one retweeted by your own POTUS, and this you cannot deny. If you see your boss smoking a cigar at work, well you probably think you can too. I am telling you we should expect more shootings like Pittsburgh, because your POTUS is fueling the hate train towards immigrants.

How is this a "fake crisis"? Illegal immigration has been an issue in this country for a very long time. Reagan grappled with it, with a solution of blanket amnesty for those here at that time, to be accompanied by steps to close the borders. We never saw the 2nd part of that.

Going back to the 80's and further, there has always been a sizeable number of people who want to stop illegal immigration but they haven't had a voice to speak for them in the public discussion until now. Many Republicans quietly supported illegal immigration in order to provide cheap labor for their big business pals. Democrats have always been pro-illegal for their own equally devious reasons.

That those people now have a voice is no "crisis", it's a good thing that has been a long time coming. Illegal immigration was a driving force in Trump's winning the White House, and have you noticed that the Democrats haven't been too successful getting much traction with their own rank and file voters on this issue either?

I seriously think a great many people in this country really want to stop illegal immigration, but the bicoastal elites have silenced them until now.

And I do notice that you didn't respond to my theoretical compromise offer. Accept or Decline?

[Chaka-Z0]

How can you remove rights that never existed? They are here illegally. They don't have a right to be here or stay here. Never had it to begin with. The only difference is that nowdays, a significant number of people who now have a voice in govt. want to enforce the law, rather than ignore it.

What if I told you that some will die if sent back to their country? Did you happen to notice how bad Venezuela has become or Syria etc.? Sure one could assume there are a lot of them that are not in immediate danger, but some are and sending them back is a death sentence.

Your comparison to myself is absurd at best. I am, and have always been a citizen of this country, as were both of my parents, and their ancestors came in through the front door, Ellis island, following the legal immigration and naturalization process. How is that in any way comparable to people who sneak into the country illegally?

It was more a generic example than targeted at you, but okay. You are right it is not comparable.The World has changed a lot since these times and the delay to apply takes years, if you're lucky.

The World population is growing exponentially and normal channels have been squeezed to their limits. Climate change causes high floods, tornados, heat waves, lower food supplies all over the world and the irony is that the worst of it is in poor countries that had no part in polluting the planet. The US and other modern developped countries are in part responsible for this situation, but I'm sure you will never agree with this.

What if you had a box of KD to feed an entire family and knowing your children will be basically slaves to their siblings because they need to work constantly to win meager salaries? The only way out is illegally immigrating, and if you were in the same situation you would do all you can to have the best future for your children and not make them go through the same miserable life that you had.

How is this a "fake crisis"? Illegal immigration has been an issue in this country for a very long time. Reagan grappled with it, with a solution of blanket amnesty for those here at that time, to be accompanied by steps to close the borders. We never saw the 2nd part of that.

It is a fake crisis because the POTUS made it so. The problem has been exaggerated so much that people listening to this crap think it's WW3 at the border right now.

Going back to the 80's and further, there has always been a sizeable number of people who want to stop illegal immigration but they haven't had a voice to speak for them in the public discussion until now. Many Republicans quietly supported illegal immigration in order to provide cheap labor for their big business pals. Democrats have always been pro-illegal for their own equally devious reasons.

Have you even considered that the reason why they stayed quiet is because they represented a minority in the big picture? If not, the US citizens would've voted for nationalists deputees in masses. And need I remind you again that your current Government was not elected by the people, but by the system?

That those people now have a voice is no "crisis", it's a good thing that has been a long time coming. Illegal immigration was a driving force in Trump's winning the White House, and have you noticed that the Democrats haven't been too successful getting much traction with their own rank and file voters on this issue either?

When I saw that Clinton was going to be the Dems candidate, I immediately called to my entourage that Trump would win. This election was a "lesser of two evils" election. Doesn't leave the folks with much choice in a bi-party electoral system.

I seriously think a great many people in this country really want to stop illegal immigration, but the bicoastal elites have silenced them until now.

Correction: a great many groupuscules that barks louder than others want to stop immigration, period. Not illegals, all of them. Trump just knew and knows who his fans are. If that's not true, why did he never really publicly condemned those atrocities caused by white supremacists?

And I do notice that you didn't respond to my theoretical compromise offer. Accept or Decline?

I would only agree if those already present gets a free pass. Whatever you do after is your business, but you would realise quick enough that for 1 immigrant that leeches off the system there are a dozen to work 60 hours a week trying to make a living for themselves and contributing to your economy much more than the 500 hundred pounds American billy-bob that requires weekly medical care.

[aretood2]

Ok, here's a theoretical compromise, I'm just wondering if you folks who support unfettered illegal immigration would support it.

I don't think anyone here is for unfettered illegal immigration. This is what's wrong with people like you. The minute someone suggests that wonton killing of illegal immigrants is wrong all of a sudden makes them "pro illegals" and want to abolish any sort of border controls. It's a strawman argument and you using proves once again that you never really "listen" to what anyone here says nor do you really even know what anyone here believes.

Ideally, for me, we stop every single illegal from coming into the country, by any means necessary.

Including wonton massacre because screw morals.

Suppose I and others who feel as I do propose a compromise. We relent on refugees and such, but change the laws so that unless you're legally in the country; applied for entry and were approved, came in the front door and all that, there is no eligibility whatsoever for any form of social service benefits of any kind. Zero. Zip. Nada.

People like you consider compromise unacceptable. You offer one little item and then demand everything else and call it a compromise yet miss the fact that a compromise means meeting someone halfway, not giving them a token gesture.

Agree or disagree ?

I don't think anyone can answer this question at all because it is based on a strawman argument.

so you stop illegals from coming to your country
in other words by definition they're not yet in your country to begin with
in other words they're not illegals since they're still in their own country
in other words what are you complaining about :|

That's the "slight of hand". The fact that they labeled them illegals long before they even entered Mexico shows that there is no real situation in which they would ever be considered "legal". A forgone conclusion based on...well...I'll let others decide why that conclusion was made.

[SoulReaver]

yup basically those migrants are being presumed guilty

btw the neocons latest theory suggesting Soros funded the caravan - yet logic dictates it's the real elites such as Koch who are funding the caravan to help GOP win the elections. that'd make much more sense
yet the media never mentioned this even though it would've made an excellent counter (is there some sort of taboo in the US when it comes to the elites among elites?)

[Coco Pops]

So is that an illegal order?

Trump now says if any of the refugees throw rocks at troops they are to treat the rocks as rifles and shoot them?

This is wrong, very, very wrong.

[Gatefan1976]

Ok, here's a theoretical compromise, I'm just wondering if you folks who support unfettered illegal immigration would support it.

I don't think anyone here is for unfettered illegal immigration. This is what's wrong with people like you. The minute someone suggests that wonton killing of illegal immigrants is wrong all of a sudden makes them "pro illegals" and want to abolish any sort of border controls. It's a strawman argument and you using proves once again that you never really "listen" to what anyone here says nor do you really even know what anyone here believes.

Not much to add to that really

Ideally, for me, we stop every single illegal from coming into the country, by any means necessary.

Including wonton massacre because screw morals.

Morals don't enter this equation, he is arguing law (which is perfectly fine). The problem is, he does not understand the law (which is the sleight of hand SR mentioned and you commented on)
No one is illegal till they cross the border, yet there are legal ways for refugee's to cross the border. Annoyed wishes to remove those legal ways by killing the problem first. He's putting a starving person 10 FT away from food and standing between them and the food with a gun and getting upset when the person dying of starvation wants the food, and then BLAMING them.
His "compromise" is a joke.

Suppose I and others who feel as I do propose a compromise. We relent on refugees and such, but change the laws so that unless you're legally in the country; applied for entry and were approved, came in the front door and all that, there is no eligibility whatsoever for any form of social service benefits of any kind. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Agree or disagree ?

Can refugee's get benefits?
Refugee status is a legally recognized way to enter a country, so they are actually in a country legally.

[Chaka-Z0]

yup basically those migrants are being presumed guilty

btw the neocons latest theory suggesting Soros funded the caravan - yet logic dictates it's the real elites such as Koch who are funding the caravan to help GOP win the elections. that'd make much more sense
yet the media never mentioned this even though it would've made an excellent counter (is there some sort of taboo in the US when it comes to the elites among elites?)

You can bet Trumpatine's followers, as dense as they can be, believe that bs in a heartbeat. How hard is it to think for 2 seconds and ask yourself what would even be the point of doing that? Why would the Dems confirm Billy-bob's fear of the immigrant beasts by sending a million of them at his very door, ready to feast on American jobs and become Marvel vilains?